User talk:Dreamer84/Archive 1

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Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway
An excellent expansion of the article on Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway. Stewart 11:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Uplawmoor/Caldwell and Neilston/Neilston(Low) Stations
I have attempted to differentiate these stations from the Glasgow, Barrhead and Kilmarnock Joint Railway and [[Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway. Unfortunately I cannot find enough detail to do the necessary articles justice. Any chance you can have a look over them? -- Stewart 22:58, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the work on Neilston Low. As regards the stations in Uplawmoor what about Uplawmoor (L&A) and Uplawmoor(GB&K). It is fustrating that Caldwell was renamed after the L&A station was closed. I did a similar thing with Bowling - creating a pointer to Bowling (L&D) --Stewart 14:08, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Maidens and Dunure Railway
I have put the initial page in for the Maidens and Dunure Railway. -- Stewart 23:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Kilmarnock and Troon Railway
Great work - between us we should get the framework of all the SW Scotland lines written (yes I know I went to Caithness last night!!). I have a query about the Kilmarnock and Troon Railway article. I did not think it had closed between 1969 and 1975. I first became aware of the line around 1971/2 when Barassie station still had four platforms and a footbridge across all four lines (and the Troon bypass line was still in situ). I am sure all the signalling was intact and I saw shiny rails at that time - however my memory maybe decieving me. The 1975 date probable ties in with the resignalling of Kilmarnock following the singling of the line to Barrhead. --Stewart 21:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Now found my copy of "Ayrshire & Renfrewshire's Lost Railways". I am not convinced the book is correct regarding the line being completely closed between 1969 and 1975. Yes it was singled - was this at the same time as the closure and lifting of the Dalry line and the singling of the line to Barrhead, or later. My memory fails regarding what happened at Barassie, however my feelings are that aprat from the closure of the Troon bypass line, most of the signalling and trackwork stayed in place until resignalling. It should be remembered however that the section around Troon and Prestwick was resignalled in advance of the Ayrline electification (1981/2??), partly due to life expired equipment in the Barassie and Prestwick area with the remote interlock installation operating as a signal box for several years. This is probably why the signals in the area are 4 aspect instead of the standard along the rest of the Ayrline of 3 aspect. I was living in Kilbarchan in the late 1960s/early 1970s and remember that line being lifted in during the summer holidays of 1970. I wish I had had a camera and take pictures. ==Stewart 16:50, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Dreamer, you may have noticed me posting on some of the other parts you have put in like the Caley line to Ardrossan Montgomerie Pier. If a few of us want to make some sort of unofficial project to clear up the lines in the Ayrshire area it could be a help.  Do we also deal with industrial branches?  The Troon and Kilmarnock line has a branch still present for Hillhouse Quarry, though I'm not sure if its still in use.  Also, do we put in industrial stations?  I also have one of the Stenlake books about Stevenston (I'm a bit of a local history buff), and it mentions that Ardeer had its own station for ICI employees that branched off the main line.  There's also lines like the branch line between Irvine and Kilwinning for Nobel's that has only recently been lifted. Douglasnicol 12:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Dreamer, regarding your Ardeer Platform entry, can you tell me where the so called 'Garnock site' is. The Stenlake Old Stevenston book has a picture of the workers station, mentioning that it was built originally to accomodate three coaches and was a single platform, but that during the 1940's when production peaked a second platform was sited at the Garnock site.  Is the branch to the station the line that branches off the main line near the main road bridge at the old ICI works, I've noticed there is (was?) a rail line that branches off at a near right angle. Douglasnicol 15:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

South West Scotland Lines
Hi - my first thoughts on the lines still to be dealt with (confining myself in this instance to south and west of the WCML.
 * Kilmarnock to (County Boundary Junc - G&SW/Cal) to Strathaven Central
 * Portpartick & Wigtonshire Railway (Castle Douglas to Whithorn and Portpatrick)
 * Dumfries to Kirkcubright
 * Dumfries to Moniaive
 * Elvanfoot to Wanlockhead (including the Leadhills and Wanlockhead NG Railway)
 * Lockerbie to Dumfries
 * Kirtlebridge to Kirkbride (Cumbria)
 * WCML Local Services (inc Moffat Branch)
 * Lanark to Muirkirk
 * Muirkirk to Auchinleck/Cummock
 * Mauchline to Ayr (via Annbank)
 * Dalrymple Junction to Dalmellington
 * Cummock to Annbank and Holehouse
 * Lines around Larkhall, Stonehouse and Lesmahagow

Quite a few of the latter lines on the list were primarily for coal traffic, although my copy of Jowett's shows most of these lines had stations. --Stewart 16:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Next/Previous Station Boxes
Agree that they can be a pain. It was Dalry that got to me with both the lines to Kilmarnock and Kilbarchan appearing to go the same way. Once I started it resulted in me heading to Kilmarnock, which now appears to have got the line in the right direction there when you consider the junction. It makes the Gatehead/Barassie line interesting - should it follow the current arrangement or acknowledge the way out of Kilmarnock via Riccarton (now closed between the BP Oil terminal along the line of the A71 bypass). At some point a triangular junction is going to cause difficulty. In fact it does when the Cumbernauld line reaches Falkirk! -- Stewart 06:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Closed Stations on existing Lines
I am inclined to agree with you. It is a good idea to split off the operational Ayrshire Coast Line from its historic constituents.

This is how the Glasgow Central Railway maps over the Argyle Line; and the Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway overlays the Cathcart Circle Lines. -- Stewart 06:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Good work so far. Not sure how to differentate between Historic and Disused Railway. Dalry does not look right with the the Kilbarchan Loop showing as disused, but the line to Kilmarnock showing as historical. Thoughts?? -- Stewart 20:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Found this template Template:Historical rail start which is slightly different to the one you have produced.


 * Where do we go with branches of Historical Lines which are closed? Sections of the Glasgow Central Railway and Lanarkshire and Dunbartonshire Railway for example. Do we put these branches under Disused or Historical? == Stewart 06:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I too like the bottom example, with one proviso. I think I would put Line Closed instead of Branch Closed == Stewart 20:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Cross edit of Template:Railway lines in Scotland
Thanks for correcting the errors that crept in when I was cross editting this Template. That is what happens when I spend time working on getting it right in my Sandbox and not checking that it has changed in the intevening time. Thanks once again :-) Stewart 22:58, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Next Station from Strathbungo
What about St Enoch station? Stewart 20:43, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Stirling to Alloa Line
A heads-up for you following a query I received from User:Simply south. I do not propose to look at the Fife Lines at present, especially if someone else is taking an interest. Stewart 16:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Original Query on my Talk Page
 * My response on Simply South's Talk Page

Kilmarnock and Troon Railway
Hello Dreamer,

Can you tell me exactly where the terminus station of the old Kilmarnock & Troon railway - the tramway, was?

Did it have a station as such? I see that the Archibald Mackay and Earl Of Glencairn estate maps seem to show the line continuing up to the site of the existing Co-Op funeral service near Nelson Street, beyond the church site next to the Sherrif Court which most sources give as the site of the station. I also note that St.Marnock station is marked in 1909, was it just a goods / minerals station? Thanks.

Rosser 15:12, 19 November 2006

You may be interested to know that various documents about the 'new' Kilmarnock to Troon line were passed on to Robert Watt of 'Past & Present' antiques in Stewarton. They came from Kilmarnock station. One letter I remember was about the openning date from Drybridge Station. Robert is very helpful indeed to local historians.

Thanks for the previous info.

Cunninghamhead
Dreamer, find it strange that the Cunninghamhead article has been edited to almost completely remove any reference to Cunninghamhead! Perhaps you should create a separate article for Annick Lodge, with Quarryholm in there too (where it should be).

Cunninghamhead Railway station certainly deserves a part to itself.

As for the mansion house on Cunninghamhead Estate, it is never refered to as a castle and this is totally misleading. I would suggest that you correct this. As a point of interest, you used to be able to see the layout of the house in very dry summers!
 * I was trying to seperate the various irrelevant material, such as all the stuff on Perceton, but most of my edits have been reverted. I suggest you talk to User:Rosser1954 who seems to be the main editor for the page. (I personally think the page is far too long to the point where it becomes difficult to read anything). Dreamer84 20:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * My thoughts are on Talk:Cunninghamhead, Perceton and Annick Lodge. I think it needs work to edit this one large article into a series of what could become excellent articles. Stewart 21:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Ayr to Mauchline Branch
The current connection is northwards at Newton-on-Ayr station. If you take it this way, the info boxes should work when you get to Mauchline. Stewart 06:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Is that the section that goes Northeast from the Ayr Motive Power Depot, and passes St Quivox? Douglasnicol 15:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Different thing i am interested in now
Hello

I was wondering if you were interested in a new proposed WikiProject. It is called Tranport around Glasgow and Edinburgh. The proposal can be found at WikiProject Council/Proposals. For the temp page, see User:Simply south/WikiProject Transport around Glasgow and Edinburgh. I was referred to you by Pencefn btw. Simply south 22:11, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

so should i add your name on the proposals page? Simply south 18:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I am now facing problems with the proposal covering more than i originally thought and am querying the name. What do you think this should be called?

I am thinking about those i have put on the proposals page, plus also suggestions of "Scottish Rapid Transit", "Transit\"Tranportation in Scotland"...

I wa also hoping that this wouldn't cover ALL forms of transport although i now don't know what to do. I am going to leave the same message on other people's pages who have signed up. What should happen? Simply south 20:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Retitled
I've given in and now changed the title to Transport in Scotland. I have started editing the sub-page although it still needs a lot of work. The WikiProject is very broad although i have stated that it should focus primarily on public transport. Do you think this is good? Simply south 12:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

1 final thing with the proposal is that i have changed it into a a reality. See WikiProject Transport in Scotland. Simply south 12:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

GB&KJR Stations
Were the Gorbals and St Enoch Stations on the GBK Joint line? I thought they were part of the City Union line? I could be wrong as I'm not 100% sure. --Dreamer84 18:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I will probably concede the St Enoch was not part of the GB&KJR - although GB&KJR trains terminated there (so did NBR trains from the north!!). Gorbals is another issue, as I believe it directly replaced South Side on 1 August 1877 when the connection was made with the City Union.


 * There is probably a similar arguement that can be made regarding Glasgow, Barrhead and Neilston Direct Railway going into Central Station. It being the Caledonian Railway link into Eglinton Street; Bridge Street (latterly Central Station).


 * This all came from my dis-satifaction of the way adjacent stations to Strathbungo were handled. Having now spent some time on the City Union Line I am now even more confused.


 * Thoughts, article revisions, etc gratefully received Stewart 18:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * After checking my usual sources, you're completely right, Gorbals was opened as part of the GBK. My suggestion: we change the table on the GBK so that only Gorbals and South Side are at the top, and also change the station tables on Strathbungo to reflect the same. St Enoch could then get a link to Gorbals via a City Union station table when the page is eventually created. --Dreamer84 21:02, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I will leave to to sort out the GBK article. Stewart 21:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've done a test infobox for the City Union Line in my sandbox that includes the Gorbals and South Side stations. Its missing the junction names from your version though (and goes from north to south). The Union line is a particularly awkward line to translate into a small box! :) And someones altered the text size for the Template, doesn't look as nice now IMO. --Dreamer84 21:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Had a play in your sandbox. As you say, the City Union is particularly difficult.
 * Firstly because it did not start/finish at station, rather Sighthill and Shields Junctions. Springburn station was on the Sighthill Branch of the E&G on its connection to the Glasgow and Garnkirk. One could argue that Sighthill Junction is where the E&G, City Union and Garnkirk railways met.
 * Secondly, St Enoch was on a triangular junction, being a terminus station, which allowed access to the City Union in both directions. I beleive that G&SW trains headed south (maybe even the odd WCML train in BR days) and NBR trains headed north to the North Clyde Line and the E+G.
 * Still not happen with what I have done in the sandbox, but I think it better reflects the situation. Stewart 22:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Station Infobox History
Noticed you adding more dates handling to the infoboxes, how do you think the history data should work in cases of a lot of dates? Should the history data be moved from the main body of the article to the infobox, or should it appear in both the main body and the infobox? Problem with moving them is some articles would be left with virtually nothing in the main article, and the problem with just copying them over is you end up with lots of duplication. Having the timeline in the infobox is a great idea though. What do you think? The dates really all need to have their sources cited too, I recommend the footnote style ala Giffen railway station (the only article I've actually properly referenced so far!) --Dreamer84 15:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have actually amended the template to include up to ten different events - have a look at the Minffordd railway station or Falls of Cruachan railway station as examples (yes I knows these are open stations, but the same prinicple applies for the closed template). I would suggest only summary info is entered. My reasoning for this came from the way the formatting got out of sync on the Minffordd article, and Falls of Cruchan had been closed, then reopened. And then when I was doing Crow Road railway station I felt that a third significant date was appropriate; and then Partick Central railway station had a significant dates - reopening. I have left the Key Dates for Opening and Closing if they are the only significant dates. However for some of the Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway stations - Saltcoats North railway station comes to mind, which when opening and closing dates could be misleading as the station was closed for a period. ==Stewart 16:03, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Thornwood
Oops!!! - Thanks for correcting my cut and paste error. Stewart 18:01, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Station infobox exits
The infobox is not designed for a comparison of different passeger figures, only as an indication of how busy the station is, so only one should be used at a time. The reason for different fields is for backwards compatability to link to the correct source document.

If the change in patronage is significant then mention it in the body of the article - see Sugar Loaf railway station as an example of this. However at most railway stations, including Ardrossan South Beach railway station this is not the case. Yes there has been a substantial increase, and this might be worth including in the body of the article, but until we have source material to identify any trend over 3-4 years at least we cannot draw any conclusions. A single-year blip could be cause by, a one-off event nearby, enginering work here or elsewhere nearby (people avoid the station while it is closed/disrupted/replaced by busses - many to stations with plentiful car parking at or near the end of the work, or on an adjacent line to it, giving them nicreased trade. Thryduulf 02:19, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Interactive Map
Even though you have not finished it yet, I like it. It would resolve some of those awkward list which are difficult to format. City Union Line comes to mind with St Enoch, etc. It might also be prudent to include links to the articles for other lines - for example the Kilbarchan Loop Line. Stewart 15:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Glasgow, Paisley and Greenock Railway
Hey, I've included the line extension to Gourock within the page and thought it would be best to keep it all as the same line, making a seperate 'Gourock Extension' page is unnecessary IMO. Similar way the Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway being all on the one page, despite part of it being an extension built years after it originally opened. --Dreamer84 23:29, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * My fault - now removed from Historical Rail Box. Stewart 23:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The Glasgow, Paisley and Greenock Railway was an independant company which merged with the Caledonian Railway. In contrast, the Gourock Extension was promoted by the Caledonian Railway, so I'm happy for it to be included, as you have, in the GP&GR article (and in the Caledonian Railway); and I agree it does not need its own article, as it was not an independant railway company. Pyrotec 23:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Historic Scottish Railway Companies
I have created a User Page - User:Pencefn/Historical Scottish Railways to assist of navigating around the various Historical Scottish Railway Companies, and also links to the associated Talk Pages and the relevant RAILSCOT website page. This is intended as an aide memoire whilst we are working on the various articles. Stewart 23:53, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Cathcart Circle Stations
Hey, is there any reason why you've removed some of the historical rail boxes from the bottom of some of these station pages? Whitecraigs and Williamwood seem to have lost theirs (Williamwood's was removed last month but this is the first I've noticed), and Whitecraigs has lost its history as well! I've restored the information as I can't think of any reason why it would be removed for these two stations and can only guess it was an accident! --Dreamer84 23:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Whitecraigs was an incorrect edit - deleting more than I intended without checking what I had done (as I am away from home on dialup at present). Oops - sorry!


 * Williamwood was intentional as it was not a Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway station. I have similar difficulties with Kings Park and Croftfoot stations.


 * -- Stewart 10:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC) (modified when not logged in @ 12:20)