User talk:Drhh

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PORSCHE 928 GTR MAX-MORITZ-STROSEK
The article PORSCHE 928 GTR MAX-MORITZ-STROSEK has been requested to be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising which only promotes a company, product, group or service and which would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. -- Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs&#124;links&#124;watch&#124;logs) 12:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC) --

Reply and Question for JEFF:
This deletion must result from a big misunderstanding: This car is widely unknown in the scene but, where it has been seen, created a lot of interest and curiosity (like on ADAC Nürbürgring Historical Meeting in 2006).

The article was meant to inform and suit the kind of enthusiasm common to the scene of Porsche 928 owners. Two old press articles on the car and fotos were meant to follow after copyright was cleared.

What and in who´s favour could it be a blatant advertising? The Porsche dealership MaxMoritz doesn´t exist any more, the car is out of production since 1996, Vittorio Strosek, to my knowledge, is out of business, too.

Everythung about the car is merely historical!

I ask Jeff to overrule his verdict or to be more precise about his irritations.


 * How was it appropriate in How to edit a page? -- Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs&#124;links&#124;watch&#124;logs) 22:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply and more questions:

Jeff, if I get your answer correctly, this might be the very simple explanation:

I was simply mistaken; this is the first time I wanted to edit a new page. Does your intervention mean, that I was trying to issue my topic on an instruction page of Wikipedia? As you might gather, I still don´t understand why you came to this judgement. Does it have to do with the/any wrong choice of page? If so I admit you were right ( on -maybe- grounds that may not have been needlesharp on the point ), but then,please advise how to proceed. Thanks
 * Where did the information come from? If you wrote it yourself, it shouldn't be here due to No original research.  If you found it somewhere, please cite your source.  There might be some room for the information in the Porsche 928 article.

FTR, the text you added to How to edit a page follows. It appears (from that text and research I've done) to be about one car that: was made by Porsche; was configured for racing by Vittorio Strosek (with his lightweight body parts and racing exhaust) at Max Moritz's Max Moritz Racing; was entered in 1984 races in the Formula One German Grand Prix by Porsche-Club Schwaben e.V. as a "semi-works car"; was driven in those races by Bernd Mayländer, Manuel Reuter, and Harm Lagaay; weighed in at 1370 kg; was kept by Max Moritz until his death; was sold in October of 2004 with 24500 km on the odometer; and has only ever been registered to the Porsche Research and Development facility in Weissach, Germany. -- Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs&#124;links&#124;watch&#124;logs) 22:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, I qualified the article by quoting two articles in Porsche magazines that contain most of the infos in my text, the rest is quoting infos from Lagaaij/ Strosek and people of the racing departement of former Porsche Dealer MaxMoritz. As you proposed I inserted the Article into the Porsche 928 page. I would have liked to insert a foto too, but still have to learn on how to manage. Hope everything´s alright now; if not pass me a note.

PORSCHE 928 GT-R "CUP"  "MAXMORITZ-STROSEK"
Porsche´s Racing Department never officially entered or prepared a racing 928 for a pure works entry.

Only once Porsche decided to make it obvious to the 911 enthusiasts that they usually tended to underrate the racing genes of the 928:

So Porsche "arranged" this 928GTR to compete with the then dominant 911(993GTR) on the race track. In order not to offend sensibilities of their traditional 911/993GTR customers by officially challenging them with an outright Works-928GTR, PORSCHE asked MAX-MORITZ-RACING, their long time private racing partner from next-door-Reutlingen to enter this 928GTR Cup as a semi-works car. http://www.porsche928.net/history/strosek_928cup.html

So it didn´t come as a surprise, that the drivers were: Bernd Mayländer, Manuel Reuter (Porsche Works Pilots), also Harm Lagaaij (then Head of Porsche´s Design Studio). Vittorio Strosek sponsored MM with his Lightweight-Body-Parts and racing exhaust. The car was officially entered by PORSCHE-CLUB-SCHWABEN. Homologation weight minimum had to be, and actually is 1370 kg. (more infos: „PORSCHE SCENE Germany) 12/2006 „Frisch aufgelegt: Stroseks Design Klassiker“  and 911&PORSCHE WORLD (GB) May/June 1994 „928 Cup Racer“ )

Lagaaij reports, that the car was very competitive and able to hold most 993GTR down, although the engine was no more than fine-tuned after chosen from a set of high power output specimen in Weissach. In the last race of the season at Hockenheim a crank-bearing ran dry. As the car was supposed to race in 1995 as well, she was made ready to continue her successful competition in the 1995 season. A fresh engine was installed, selected from the same lot of high output engines and tuned as before. But in 1995 Porsche´s 928-production came to an end and the car consequently was no more raced in the new season.

The late Max Moritz himself then had her join his collection of historic cars. She has never been put on the road again until after his death, when the family sold the car in October 2004 (with only 24500 km on the clock. (Porsche-Weissach is the only documented owner).

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Comment and question for Jeff: The picture I inserted is a press release foto of V.Strosek (also published on the linked webside. I quoted this but had not found an appropriate picture tag. Could you help out, please.
 * I didn't see that particular image on http://www.porsche928.net/history/strosek_928cup.html - you should specify EXACTLY where you got it and ask for permission to use it using the small print in the left column of [http://www.porsche928.net/index.html

==   THIS IS NOT THE MaxMoritz Car!

http://www.porsche928.net/index.html]. — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 12:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

What you see in the link is from the same lot of fotos included in the press release. As the foto is a press release foto (that V.Strosek sent out) it was meant to be published by whoever got hold of it. As I cannot contact V.Strosek in person I have no chance to achieve a very special permission for wikipedia (that didn´t exist at the time) But I guess press releases do include publication in wikip. - why should it not?? Also see my italic insert in your above text!
 * If the car pictured is "NOT THE MaxMoritz Car", why would you want that picture publicized? If perhaps we have miscommunicated and that is in fact "THE MaxMoritz Car", can you please upload (or at least point us at) a full copy of the press release?  Thanks!
 * Alternatively, why can you not contact V.Strosek via one of the contact methods detailed on his website?  — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 18:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, indeed there is a misunderstanding. This link: http://www.porsche928.net/history/strosek_928cup.html shows the original press release fotos of Strosek, as well as "my" foto. The one that does not show the MaxMoritz car is the one that comes up with the link (http://www.porsche928.net/index.html]. that you quoted in :  — Jeff G. (talk|contribs) 12:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC) I´ll try to find and upload the press release; Strosek himself, to my knowledge, does not own his business any more.

I found the original press release with 3 fotos; only the one that I uploaded and that was banned was not used for this prospectus, so I cannot really prove that the banned one was one of the lot of press releases (what seems very obvious, as after the foto-presentation of the car, racing rims+rubbers were mounted for the race-track, so the car looked different from then on). I deleted the foto link from the text but replaced this upload by the scan of the prospectus´cover foto (without inserting it in the text. I uploaded just on behalf of your concern about authenticity.) I hope it is visible for you.
 * I see the new image was deleted, too. Sorry I was away from this discussion while that happened.  Why couldn't you have used Promophoto and the appropriate URL with it?  Also, what's going on with that car now?  How do you know about it?  Have you seen, ridden in, or driven it?  Thanks!    — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 06:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)