User talk:Drmies/Archive 30

Swami Krishnananda
You made quite a few clean up edits to Swami Krishnananda in November 2010, which was followed soon after by adding a primary sources tag. The situation has not really moved on and I just just fired a shot across the bows here. What do you think? Give it a month? A fortnight? A week? Or just cut into it now. - Sitush (talk) 16:48, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Go for it. The tag's been there long enough. Did you see Barek's good work in the history? I didn't know I had left so much; I guess a year and a half ago I didn't handle such a blunt ax as I do now. Thanks Sitush, Drmies (talk) 20:29, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Problematic contributor - advice appreciated
I am having some difficulties with, as demonstrated at Talk:Varna (Hinduism) and Talk:U. G. Krishnamurti. I may be wrong in my judgment of the issues but, regardless, dealing with the situation is rapidly becoming a time-sink for both of us. I would appreciate a review by yourself or any willing stalker. - Sitush (talk) 18:21, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Man way  03:04, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Independent sources
Hi Drmies,

Thank you for reviewing the draft. After re-reading the first paragraph, I kind of see what you mean. I wasn't sure how to describe the company other than to use language other organizations had used to describe their work. What do you suggest?

One of the problems I had, was encountering information that has nothing to do with Mr. Sidak (3rd party) because part of his notability includes all of his expert reports and scholarly research (he's written over 80 articles and 5 or 6 books) during the Reagan Administration, at AEI and at the FCC. He may very well be one of the most cited expert economists today. The other obstacle, is finding information in the public domain. I understand that most of Criterion's work is not on the public record because Mr. Sidak is an expert witness in litigation. Re: neutrality of the firm, Criterion's experts been appointed many times as the neutral expert of by the courts on high profile cases:

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/illinois/ilndce/1:2011cv08540/262961/ http://patentlaw.jmbm.com/Brandeis1.pdf

Above are only two of the cases I found, and the information is not easily accessible, so you can see where part of the first paragraph came from. I also got some of the information based on Wiki since Mr. Sidak is already listed on pages for Google Books, XM, Journal of Competition L&E, and cited many times in footnotes.

Sorry for the long note. How would you advise editing, unless you don't think the topic is appropriate? His resume and mentions would suggest otherwise but I defer to you.

Thank you again, econoedit 05:18, 30 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acrowley00 (talk • contribs)
 * If this is about what I think it is, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Criterion Economics (I see now that it is), your questions are somewhat beside the point. If you want an article on the company you have to find reliable sources that discuss the company. You're pointing toward an article on Sidak. Now, he may well be notable in his own right, but there is no point in digging around "in the public domain": what you're talking about is primary material, and encyclopedic articles rely on secondary material--see WP:SECONDARY. Also, notability for the one doesn't mean notability for the other, and vice versa. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:03, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Violation of Interaction Ban
Hello Drmies, I wanted to let you know that there's a violation of the interaction ban between me and he-who-shall-not-be-named over here:. Even relying on a translating software, it seems to be pretty obvious who they are talking about. Khvalamde :  Holla at me   11:48, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Google doesn't tell me anything that might relate to you. "Said the Department of Martian gabbro washed out" is a reference to you? Sorry, but I don't see it--and why would you check his contributions to see if he's talking about you? Drmies (talk) 13:58, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't checking, I was just going to Strange Passerby's talkpage to tell him something that's all. And pragmatic linguistics aside, I actually had someone read the Chinese, and it's based on vague evidence. Initial Suspicion proven wrong. Khvalamde :  Argue, Scream, Chat, Yell or Shout   02:48, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

FYI
Expanded this to add another question. If you want to smarten it up, feel free. --kelapstick(bainuu) 11:52, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I am afraid to ask how you got so involved in K-pop, given my username do you think I might have a COI? Also, shouldn't you be asleep?--kelapstick(bainuu) 05:31, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See also, WP:CABALOFWIKIPEDIANSWHOHATEREALLYLONGSHORTCUTSALOTANDWILLNEVERLIKETHEMEVERUNTILTHEHEATDEATHOFTHEUNIVERSEWHENWEALLDIESOLETSGETCRACKINGONTHOSEINSANELYLONGSHORTCUTSTHATARELONGERTHANTHEPAGETHEYREDIRECTTO
 * Also, anyone you know?
 * Hmmm I have to say no to that one. Drmies (talk) 23:04, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via real time chat with helpers, or on the [ reviewer's talk page]
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Drmies (talk) 19:18, 30 April 2012 (UTC)


 * According to your recent comment on Vschu's edit on Gyu-Kaku, you indicated that my comments are for commercial uses? I edited it based on their websites. Please let me know if you have further questions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vschu (talk • contribs) 19:36, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * And that's the problem. Articles need to be based on reliable, secondary sources. Drmies (talk) 20:14, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Awwww...

 * Seconded, and thanks for archiving. --kelapstick(bainuu) 03:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Articles for creation/Frederick Douglass Family Foundation
Dear Drmies,

Thank you for reviewing my recent article for the Frederick Douglass Family Foundation. With regard to your comment: "A lot of sources, but they are about things other than the actual subject of the article", I wanted to point out a few things:

The references I provided under the "Reference" heading were included to support statements made in the article. I didn't feel that I could make a statement such as: "it has been reported in the media that city schoolyards and playgrounds are being targeted by sex traffickers", and not provide an independent reference to back this statement up. These references under the "Reference" heading were not included to prove notability, but to support some pretty heavy topic matter and the statements made. There are 18 independent references included to support my statments.

The support for notability of the subject is included under Articles and Interviews. I have just updated this section and added an additional 4 articles, one Newsweek television interview, one Tavis Smiley radio interview, bringing to total 9 independent articles, 2 radio interviews and 2 television interviews about the subject. These are not passing references, but full articles and interviews. It is important to note that the subject is the Frederick Douglass Family Foundation and part of the mission of the organization is to carry on the legacy of Frederick Douglass and Booker T. Washington. Therefore, I would argue, that all of the independent articles about the founders (Washington Douglass and Morris), their lineage to both men, the Douglass foundation and its anti-human trafficking work are relevant to proving notability. I don't believe you can state that the founders are direct descendants of Douglass and Washington and not back it up with independent sources proving this, which I have done.

If it's a matter of placing the articles and interviews under "references", I can make that change. Otherwise, I believe that providing 13 independent sources (articles/interviews) about the subject (the subject being the Douglass Family), and their anti-human trafficking work should be sufficient to proving notability. In addition, when you consider that the founders are direct descendants of two of this country's greatest heroes, this is notable in and of itself.

Here is a link to the AFC page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Frederick_Douglass_Family_Foundation

Thank you again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiswift (talk • contribs) 23:35, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your note. The problem isn't so much the references but the content they support. The section on "Current project", for instance, does not discuss the foundation as such, and most of that content isn't about the foundation but about the issue. Likewise in the lead: "Slavery exists today in various forms throughout the world". Sure, that's true, but it's not about the foundation, and content about the Douglass family also does not aid the article, verified of not. The "Service learning eduction" section has nothing on the foundation. That's the problem with the article, and that's why I declined moving it to main space. The article needs references for the foundation. As for the descendents, notability is not inherited, I'm afraid. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 00:05, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Notability is not inherited; neither is it contagious. Neither being connected to the descendants of notable persons, nor being active in good causes, makes an organization notable in its own right. Wikipedia is not here to promote your cause, however noble. -- Orange Mike &#x007C;  Talk  00:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Drmies, thank you for your feedback. This helps. Wikiswift (talk) 01:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note my edits to the article's lead. You might not like them, but it makes for a more encyclopedic article--take my word for it. Now, you need to apply a sharp knife to the article and cut. Go through the press clippings and see what the articles say about the foundation; that you can put in the Wikipedia article. Good luck. Drmies (talk) 01:58, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Saint Thomas Christians semi-protection
Any chance of a 48 hour or so semi at Saint Thomas Christians? Anons and SPAs have been hitting it with unsubstantiated/overstated claims of Jewish connections, which have been discussed at length here. It is one or two people, and I'd considered an SPI if only checkuser could do something useful (they can't). There is an admin around, who has also reverted the stuff, but they are involved. - Sitush (talk) 03:58, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, you have a pretty decent chance of that--at RPP. I am unwilling to protect now since I warned one of the editors (well, the same editor under a few different IPs). Moreover, I am thinking about the content and the talk page discussion, and I don't want to protect the wrong version (since that's the wrong version) and I don't want to protect the right version (which would be wrong)--also I am not yet sure which one is which. I am very interested in the dispute though. Sorry Sitush, but I can't do this for you now, because I have too much faith in you. Drmies (talk) 04:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's ok. I didn't realise that you had warned someone. The dispute is simple: it is between those who can fully comprehend the English language and those who cannot and/or have a POV to push & thus are blind to the all-important adjectives. - Sitush (talk) 04:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

thanks
hi. thanks for your level-headed input, Dr "Rainbow Dash" mies. :) -badmachine 04:08, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Brohoof. Drmies (talk) 04:09, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * brohoof received. everypony can get back to business as usual now. :3 -badmachine 04:14, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

hola (and a note on allkpop)
Hi! First of all, thanks for your note.

Second, I did put something up: see Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. The biggest thing to me is that the site has its own disclaimer saying that it's basically not reliable. If it claims that it cannot be used reliably, how can we??

But yeah, just letting you know. Thanks! SKS (talk) 04:49, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I appreciate that. Drmies (talk) 04:55, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Permission
Hi Drmies,

My name is Tony Zaknic. I am the guy who updated the sources on Marinaj's wiki-page. Thanks, by the way, for your suggestion to include them in the references. I would gladly follow your advice, but there are a few things you should know about me before I ask your permission to enter the editing section of the page. First, my father knows the author personally. I thought you should know... I am only 19, but I work full-time and am very honest. I have been told I must be 21 before I can create a wiki account. Therefore, I have been using my real name Tony Zaknic. As of yet, I do not have a college diploma. Nevertheless, I would like to help, for now with Marinaj's page and later on with other pages as well. Now that you know these facts, can you give me special permission to edit on Marinaj wiki-page? I have never done any editing on Wikipedia, but I'm willing to learn. That means you need to be patient with me if I make any formatting mistakes, given that I will make every effort to avoid them. If you need my phone number, home address, or want to talk with me on Skype for verification purposes, please just send me an email. My email address is my first and last mane all together, lower case with no spaces.

Sincerely, Tony Zaknic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.205.17.201 (talk) 07:02, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Tony, no comment from me on the rest of your post, but I don't know who told you you had to be 21 to register an account - they were incorrect though. We have administrators younger than you are. By all means, register an account here! Lady  of  Shalott  14:48, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Tony, you don't need anything to edit Wikipedia except for a brain and a computer. Go get yourself an account and jump in. But note that at least one of those links is already in the references--"Professor and student cross the Balkans". For citing, see WP:CITE and/or follow the model in the current text. If you need help with that let me know. Welcome aboard. Drmies (talk) 14:50, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I had left a not on their talk page regarding the account creation issue. --kelapstick(bainuu) 22:02, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your help Drmies, LadyofShalott, and --kelapstick(bainuu). I took your good advice and created an account. I      sincerely appreciate your kindness.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Earlybirdofthewest (talk • contribs) 05:43, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Dr. Mies, I am writing to ask you to consider adopting me for a short period. I like very much your style of fair but firm editing. If you are willing to send me your email address, however, I would like to inform you of something important that I don't feel comfortable posting on your talk page. I very much hope you will be interested in helping me and I look forward to hearing from you soon.--Earlybirdofthewest (talk) 08:58, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure your father knows the author personally, from a very early age I imagine. Dude, how dumb do you think we are? Drmies (talk) 22:24, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Question
Not a big issue, but at, I protected and reverted, fairly confident that was the right thing to do. In this case, the two editors are pretty clearly socks, however. Not sure if I should bog the system down at SPI, indef them boldly or just ignore them as they are likely not to come back. I lean toward the latter as I don't want to be a beast to formality and I'm more concerned about simply getting results, which I think I have. Obviously, if they came back autoconfirmed and vandalize, I wouldn't block on site without asking, based on all the linkages. But for now? You opinions, as long as I'm not obligated ;)  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  00:52, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What a loser. In general, I like adding them to the SPI; that is, starting a new report (there's no rush, usually; the wiki won't break). But this is nothing fancy, it's not difficult, it hasn't spread to other pages--you're dealing with an SPA/DA (that's short for "dumb ass"). I'd block them as DUCKs, yes, and then I'd probably start a new SPI page listing them, as a formality. You could ask for CU to see if there are sleepers, but whenever one pops up you'll know anyway. Good work, Drmies (talk) 01:33, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I've semi-protected the page, so any recent sleepers won't be able to edit, but I will ask for the check anyway. Might wait til morning, fading quickly and the semi should be sufficient until dawn.  The protect is until after the event, I don't expect much after it is old news anyway.  Trying to just work on the stuff I'm most comfortable with for now, keep a pace going.  I appreciate being able to get your opinions along the way.  I've been studying the new admin school quite a bit, trying to get a solid understanding of the principles as I go along.  Oh, and I haven't blocked yet but mainly because I've been working issues that need mediation rather than reaction.  Not afraid to, just not rushing to use all the tools in one day.   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  01:45, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I forgot what it was like to be new at the job. It's so normal now. Yes, take it slow and get it right. I was nervous the first couple of blocks and that's not a bad thing. Drop by anytime. Take it easy, Drmies (talk) 02:07, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

MMA
Not sure if you are around, but I don't see anyone uninvolved jumping in on an ANI issue which I'm too close to mediate in. My frustration is so great, I've lost all objectivity in the matter, so I need to go off wiki for a break for my own sanity and before I get entirely too honest. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;   &copy;  23:54, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw that but I have little to offer in the matter. As far as I'm concerned they've turned their section of Wikipedia into yet another fan corner, but I don't know enough detail about the past discussions to say anything useful there. Sorry, and good luck. Hey, pick your fights. You can't fight them all, let alone win them all. Drmies (talk) 00:03, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See here...--kelapstick(bainuu) 00:06, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The issue is conduct. I do pick my fights, but some others, including those with the best faith, don't know when it is best to simply back off and not push things too far, and take things into their own hands. I've just been drug along for the ride.  Think I will go watch Futurama on DVD and crack open the Dewar's.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  00:12, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Let them slug it out. Typically, MMA fans seem to have a different opinion on civility (I recall there was an ANI thread a couple of weeks ago about a new editor). Best to watch from the sidelines and see what needs to be done when it really gets out of hand. That sounds jaded, I know--but I'm also ready for a digestif. Cheers! Drmies (talk) 00:36, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with slugging it out, if I'm anything, I'm quite tolerant of heated discussion in general and attacks against me personally, but not of bad faith actions that intentionally disrupt Wikipedia. I've unwatched WP:MMANOT, and made it crystal clear that I will remove any postings related to it on my talk page and will not participate in the future.  I prevented a ton of stuff from getting deleted, yet I was called a deletionist.  Many were holding off sending to AFD because I had asked them to (begged, really) in the interest of de-dramatizing the place. Sadly, I expect a flood of contentious AFDs now.   One or two people would just ramble and ramble to dilute the discussion, just droning to make pointless noise saying the same points over and over, after they had already been proven or addressed.  In other words, clear bad faith obstructionism.  And others were knee jerk reacting to this, instead of giving them a little rope, making the situation worse.  At this stage, I have lost my objectivity, and since I was only there to be an objective voice and bring the two sides together, I don't have any choice but to disassociate myself.  I've spend months there and we made some good progress bringing the two sides together, and it is sad that just a few can turn so much work to preserve and keep the peace, into a bloody waste. Sorry to drone on, I just need to vent a little.  It's part of the process of moving on.  Now to find some place where I can actually make a positive difference....   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  12:50, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Roman
Hi, again, just to note that a couple of IPs (same editor) have removed Roman from Carthusian. I thought that an edit filter had been set up to stop this, has it been removed or is it not working? May be Roman should be added to the other articles the IP notes for consistency. Keith D (talk) 23:57, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know anymore, Keith. I guess it's better that you're being placated than rubbed the wrong way. That Protestantism would start with a dictionary definition, the one no better than the other, is problematic in its own right. I'm reading Talk:Catholic_Church. BTW, RC-vandal--the IPs in the past got blocked in part because of the disruptive nature of their edits, done without discussion and usually with assholish edit summaries and terrible references, if any reference was given. I have no doubt this is the same person (from the articles they pick) but I don't yet feel the urge to block, also since it is still a limited group. But I'm open to correction. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Perhaps Beyond My Ken is listening in. Drmies (talk) 00:20, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Bacon coffin
From those who brought you Bacon Salt video.--kelapstick(bainuu) 01:16, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * New Olympic sport?--kelapstick(bainuu) 07:18, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't let the MMA people know. You know it was a GA? I can't believe we never had that at DYK. Drmies (talk) 13:34, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Is that anything like this?  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  22:30, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's official, that's awesome. --kelapstick(bainuu) 22:57, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Big D Kuwaiti rapper gathered reliable sources (Help in Nomination)
Hello Drmies, how have you been? I think I managed to gather the reliable sources like I promised, check them out, “Big D - Kuwaiti rapper promotes positive message (Article – Via Arab Times)", If you want it in PDF format, “Click Here" I also have another reference which is www.kuwait-music.com which the website owner was interviewed by BBC and his website was nominated the leading website of music in Kuwait VIA ARAB TIMES I’m honored to say they featured me in their website too “Click here to view my User profile on Kuwait-Music.com”, and some extra reliable sources are “Bahrain News - Kuwaiti rapper promotes positive message” and “News Of The World - Posts my political music video” Plus the previous references I had in the past, can you confirm if I passed to music notability guidelines now? If not let me know, and If I do pass try to help me get nominated to stay on Wikipedia my friend. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 15:10, ‎May ‎03, ‎2012 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwait (talk • contribs)
 * Hey Big D, thanks for your note. I'm sorry, but I don't see how the burden of notability according to Wikipedia's guidelines is met. I've asked the closing administrator at the AfD to userfy it, which means it will be put in your user space so we can bring it back anytime those guidelines are met. All the best, man. Drmies (talk) 04:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Dear Drmies, yo brother first things first "Kuwait-Music.com is legit according to BBC click here "BBC News- Musicians in Kuwait struggle with censorship, Kuwait Music" and watch the video. Also according to ARAB TIMES newspaper article, "Kuwait-Music.Com Helps Bridge Cultures - Via Arab Times"


 * 1) Many wikepedia artists do not have notable record labels.
 * 2) I'm a independent artist signing a record label means i would sell my soul to the devil.
 * 3) Kuwait has censorship laws "as a islamic country muslims cannot use profanity"
 * 4) Name me 1 rapper in the world that would agree to have censored lyrics.
 * 5) we do not have any notable labels in Kuwait we only have small recording studios.
 * 6) thank you for the nice complements about purchasing the album, like i said before if your ever in Kuwait contact me.

P.S My songs and albums you can find them on my website "The Official Website for Big D " and youtube alongside with my Music Videos, and as for Kuwait-Music they are a very notable source according to BBC and ARAB TIMES "Feature Video "BBC features Kuwait Music and Avant-Garde projects" I guess after seeing the censorship video you trust me for speaking the truth about the laws here in Kuwait, many artists contact Caesar Fernandes the founder of kuwait-music.com to be heard and that's where most musicians are found, we get the chance to be heard through his website that connects listeners in Kuwait to western musicians in Kuwait like me and others without censorship. So please try to reconsider there is no more to offer in my small country but what I've given, It would make many people proud and give them hope! I hope I get nominated to stay, because I really explained my case very clearly and I did the most I can to prove you wont make a wrong decision by accepting me. Regards, Big D — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 02:58, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Could you take a look at WP:MUSICBIO and report under which criteria an article on you would pass Wikipedia's notability requirements? Making up your own criteria is not sufficient, you've got to fulfill at least one of the criteria on WP:MUSICBIO. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:56, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello. I've seen underground artists with no notability at all that have had a Wikipedia article that was not deleted since the day they made it. They have deleted my article can you help restore my data and userfy it as Big D Kuwaiti Rapper. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D Kuwaiti Rapper (talk • contribs) 10:02, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * We call that argument the "other stuff exists" argument, and it's not relevant. Perhaps those articles need to be deleted, but that has no bearing whatever about whether you are notable enough to have an article.  If you can't say under which clause of WP:MUSBIO you would qualify, then it's extremely unlikely that an article on you will be allowed at this point. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:57, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Question on a user page
I just put up an AfD for Gerry Gogna. I found an article about him at User:Gerrygognawriter and User:Gerrygogna/gerry gogna. User:Gerrygogna is blocked for creating multiple accounts.

What do I do about the page at User:Gerrygognawriter? I've only run into this with other editors, so I've never taken the lead. Pages have gone to MfD, but not all. Bgwhite (talk) 19:24, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's taken care of. It duplicates article content in user space and is promotional to boot. I've blocked the creator of Gerry Gogna, User:Rofintiff, as an obvious sock of User:Gerrygogna. User:Gerrygognawriter is still at large but inactive for a while now. What you could do is start an SPI. The AfD will run its course; a speedy was denied earlier, based on the (ridiculous and unbelievable) claim that the author had written bestsellers. I just found User:Robintiff, now also blocked. I need a nap--please do start an SPI if you have a moment; there may be more sleepers out there (and you could look through the articles edited by the Tiff brothers--it's not many). Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:44, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Here's an IP for you: 117.205.68.182 . And another: 117.205.67.221 . And another account: . And, for the record. What fun. Drmies (talk) 19:46, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've started an SPI. Bgwhite (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * For future reference: Articles for deletion/Gerry Gogna. Thanks Bg. You know I could have had a nap. Drmies (talk) 23:18, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Dude! $3.99 for kindle! Bongo  matic  00:38, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Mr Gogna has awarded himself the Man Booker prize, the Costa Book Award and a celebrity fan. I don't think it's worth adding the IPs to the SPI, but it will be worth doing a scan for his name from time to time to flush out any more self-awards. JohnCD (talk) 10:11, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion! John, I suggest you and I go about this in a smarter way. You plug my articles, and I plug your books. Drmies (talk) 21:26, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

email
Drmies, I just dropped you an email. Not sure, but it might be important. Hopefully just a glitch of some sort, but you should be aware. Best, — Ched : ?  21:54, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure it was just a glitch--I got a notification (just one) that my page had been changed, one of Bgwhite's edits, above. I'm going over to AN to see if anyone noticed anything. Drmies (talk) 22:32, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It happened to me about six months ago, did you check the settings in Special:Preferences? --kelapstick(bainuu) 22:38, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That was a failed attempt at something, and it was turned back. I didn't change my settings, and only got one note. BTW, did you see what happened to the editor who wanted me to adopt them? Drmies (talk) 23:02, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Fascinating indeed. Is that normal procedure when someone asks you for adoption? :D --kelapstick(bainuu) 23:39, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I just took a peek at Articles for deletion/Protonism. Wow. Lady  of  Shalott  00:16, 4 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Same here, I toggled the prevs twice and thought that fixed it, but I guess jiggling the handle wasn't really the fix.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  23:48, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Notable or not
Etienne "Tuf" Aubry - The only man to defeat Van Damme in Kickboxing...The IMDB links don't open for me, and I don't know if IMDB is suitable to not be eligible for BLPPROD (and have never been able to find the answer to that)...I can't find secondary sourcing available.--kelapstick(bainuu) 01:55, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about the IMDB/BLPPROD thing either. I'd probably take it to AfD. Unless you just failed in your search (I haven't looked myself), this guy is not notable per our standards. Lady  of  Shalott  02:10, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the reigning consensus is that IMDB is not enough to counter a BLP PROD. Give it a shot. Drmies (talk) 02:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, I saw this. Holy shit. Try A7 and state there's no believable claim to importance with a note on the talk page. Drmies (talk) 02:18, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't the only defeat of Van Damme be a claim of importance? I just had Aerocomponentes Internacionales‎ declined on the basis that...being an airline with an airline code is demonstrated importance. That IMDB page checks out, and the loss is on Van Damme's page prior to this article's creation. --kelapstick(bainuu) 02:35, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Also, you should change your name to Big D Alabama. I see he got some press from Arab Times. --kelapstick(bainuu) 02:36, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Neutral admin view
Can you please check out the edit history at Theodore J. Forstmann? Thanks Bongo  matic  02:27, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * At least it's not a BLP. Am I neutral? I may have edited Talk:Ayn Rand. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Bzzzzt. Wrong answer. Do something! Bongo  matic  02:42, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I reverted and asked for protection (can't do 'em both). Next up, careful consideration of individual edits and editors, comparison, picking out SPAs, start SPI. Hey, why don't you do that! Drmies (talk) 02:47, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Have the flu. Brain unable to undertake sustained (5-min at a time) efforts. Blued this previous redlink. Care to expand? A worthy field of inquiry to be sure. Bongo  matic  03:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks kstick . . . is there a decent supply of booze in Perth? Bongo  matic  04:01, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're damn skippy there is! --kelapstick(bainuu) 04:03, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * How are the cabal's accounts looking? Got a spare $1000 for an "investment"? SmartSE (talk) 17:10, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Chess boxing
The subject says it all. Next up is J-pop boxing. That is omething I'd pay to watch, not the singing, but the singers beating up each other. Bgwhite (talk) 06:35, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That article was pointed out above--it's a fascinating sport and, as it turns out, not even so much a gimmick. It's the kind of think that gives me hope for mankind: that there are boxers who can also play chess. I wonder which skills are the first to go during their careers. Drmies (talk) 13:41, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think it shows there are athletes who don't just scratch their heads and go "ugh.... punch that man..! ughhhhh... punchey punchey!" Mr Little Irish  (talk) © 13:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought Celebrity Boxing was even classier, but then again, I am an American. Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  14:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think being American has anything to do with it really. Stop looking down on yourself! Mr Little Irish  (talk) © 14:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

A book for you
At ANI, someone pointed to a couple of articles. One I PRODed, the other wasn't a book at first, but it could be salvaged as a book, Men of Straw, or salvaged otherwise. I put a construction tag on it and wanted to get your input as to whether I'm wasting time here, or should revert back and build on the concept. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;   &copy;  12:26, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I notice there are a couple of books by that name, I just linked the one that the creator had used in the first article.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  12:30, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Two things to look for with books--is the author notable, and is the publisher notable? In this case it was easy; the only complication is we can't speedy books. Thanks for pointing this out! Drmies (talk) 13:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is why I asked you knowing it could quickly be handled. I did a lot of digging and tried to find sources, but found nothing as well.  I'm trying to be a bit more cautious with deletions, per RfA discussions. I was also not sure if the phrase and its circumstances could possibly have some value, but was doubtful it was worthy of an article.  The editor appears to have POV and COI issues as well. Thanks for the tips.   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  14:13, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Request for input
Could you please take a look at what's going on at Wikipedia talk:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle/Archive 2? I'm concerned and I'm not sure if enough people are seeing this. Thanks in advance.  Equazcion  ( talk )  14:02, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * On second though I'm probably going to post this at ANI. Though your input is most definitely still welcome.  Equazcion  ( talk )  14:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is pretty big. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:23, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Just for reference
CreateSpace is self-publishing, just as Lulu, AuthorHouse. XLibris, PublishAmerica (etc), and others are. Using CreateSpace will guarantee you a place on Amazon 'cos that's who they are... BTW Congrats! (Not volunteering for nappy changing - done enough.) Peridon (talk) 15:40, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I was trying to phrase it diplomatically...but thanks for the confirmation, and for the non-offer, haha. Drmies (talk) 15:56, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello, can you possibly help?
Hi Drmies, Sorry to bother you about a third party's problem but since you're acquainted with the problem, I suppose and hope you might as well help. We somehow ran into each other from the AfD of Gjekë Marinaj... So to get to the point: I believe there's some sort of misapprehension regarding the block of User:Earlybirdofthewest. At the Administrators Noticeboard, when I requested the protection of Gjekë Marinaj and you replied me it didn't apply to my case, I also mentioned shortly how I got involved in editing and trying to improve the referencing of the article. Moreover, I also got an email from an unknown guy, Tony Zaknic, who sent me several pdfs and articles regarding the above author. Afterwords I got another email a cuple of days ago, from this guy, who thanked me and told me he was happy he had created a profile in English wikipedia, named "Earlybirdofthewest" with the help of an experienced user, "kelapstick".

I saw he had added a list of websites as sources for the author's page, then clicked on his profile and saw he was blocked and still a [suspected/alluded/deducted] connection with Sockpuppet investigations/Festes/Archive, where I have been wished by some unregistered user to be included in as well, as I was "definitely a sockpuppet". I saw in the blocked user's contributions that the only article he had edited twice was Gjekë Marinaj (God, looks like his article here is becoming a lethal legend) and eventually he was blocked. I wonder whether his involvement in the article and probably common point of view as the blocked sockpuppets, and the fact he's a newcomer makes him a sockpuppet? He is simply a new user who has this article as his reference starting point here, or that was his "ignition" that brought him among us. It's simple as WP:GOODFAITH. Almost everyone has a start from somewhere here in Wikipedia, the fact that sockpuppets were involved in similar edits doesn't make that user a sockpuppet. Should I be afraid as well of my involvement in this matter, because I really see a serious unjustified decision being taken. What can I say, I suggest to monitor his edits in the future or explain to the user how it should be done and how it shouldn't. I'm not that professional either; have more than 2 years registered here, but have made more absences than edits and only the last 2 months have been really active (if can I say that), so maybe I'm not the most appropriate user to talk about rules, but want to help and believe you can as well. If I'm wrong, tell me where else to address. Sincerely, Empathictrust (talk) 17:03, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your note, Emphatictrust. The thing is, there is checkuser evidence that Earlybird is indeed a sock of a now-blocked account--one of many. See Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Festes and Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Festes. Your edit history (I don't know if anyone suspected you) is very different from the others and you've been here a while, so from what I can tell your involvement is fine. But Earlybird wasn't just blocked on the suspicion of socking, but on the basis of CU evidence as well as behavioral evidence. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 18:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fast reply. In one category I see 3 blocked users (sockpuppets of Festes) and in the other one I see 7. How do they link this users, do they have the same IP or what? I really believe this new user Earlybird is different from them, he is just willing to be part of Wikipedia and I wanted to help him in this situation, even though I haven't contacted with the user after the last email I told you and found his block just by browsing his profile. Maybe an investigation has to be carried out or what? I feel like it's really discouraging for sb new to face this when just signing in to Wikipedia. Don't know if there is any possibility for mistake in the categories you sent me...? THanks again and hope there's a solution for this. Respectfully, Empathictrust (talk) 18:22, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Now I read Check user, regarding the IP... so you mean the same person has created all those accounts?! If so, is there any rule in Wikipedia that allows an IP to create another account after previously sockpuppets have been blocked? I mean, suppose the user has done "an honest mistake" when creating several accounts, without knowing the rules here, and after he/she learns the rules and his/her mistake he or she is allowed to create a new monitored account, assuming good faith. I mean is this case possible? Or he/she's definitely banned from editing wikipedia from that IP? Empathictrust (talk) 18:33, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If CU evidence concludes socking has taken place it means that different accounts were operated from the same IP address, yes. There really can be no such thing as an honest mistake here, especially not since most of those socks participated in the same deletion discussion (for Protonism) and pretended to be different users. User:Tnxman307 did the CU for this case; that information is private (I don't have it), but Checkusers are among the most highly trusted editors. Nothing is ever forever--there is always Standard offer. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 20:01, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you again for your time and explanation, Empathictrust (talk) 06:57, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Beastie Boys
Hi. Sad to say, Adam Yauch died today and the article attracted a lot of unhelpful edits until User:Alison semi-protected it. Could you possibly do the same for his band, the Beastie Boys until the flood of "RIP"-type edits from anons has abated, if you agree with me? I have edited the article and consider myself slightly too involved to do so. Thanks for anything you can do. --John (talk) 21:43, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I gave it a week. Should have thought of it myself. A sad day, by the way. Drmies (talk) 22:00, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yes, I was a great fan and it was very sad indeed. --John (talk) 22:09, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You know, it feels good to play a little music, tears running down my face 'cause I love to do it. And no one can stop this flow from flowing on, a flow master of disaster with a sound that's gone. I'll give a little shout out to my dad and mom for bringing me into this world and so on. Drmies (talk) 23:35, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Now I feel old. MastCell Talk 23:50, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Pffffbbbbbbt
Saw your link to WP:FART on AN; hadn't seen that one before! Do you think it would go better under Category:Flatulence or Category:Flatulists?

And can there really only be 4 flatulists on Wikipedia? 28bytes (talk) 21:49, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I made a redirect for William J. Le Petomane, but of course I can't prove he was a flatulist so I can't add the category. Drmies (talk) 22:18, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is why I stalk your page, Drmies.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  21:58, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * As it happens I'm giving a final Monday and there are a couple of fart questions on there. Drmies (talk) 22:00, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Is this one of the answers. One of the all time book titles. Cheers. MarnetteD | Talk 22:07, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Drmies, do you have an on-line version of your class? Finally, a class my wife is certain to get an A in.  With her real-world experience, I'm sure she could even clep out of the class.  (she's gone back to school to work on her master's and she is discouraged from taking tests this week) Bgwhite (talk) 22:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, Bg, I don't do that. I like real farts. Marnette, no such modern writers, I'm afraid--can you read this? Drmies (talk) 22:16, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That is a coincidence. I reread The Divine Comedy (my second favorite Divine after The Divine Miss M just a couple years ago when I bought exquisite versions from The Folio Society. Of course, "the trumpet call from the ass" reminds me of Terry Gilliam's animations for Monty P and the Holy Grail. Thanks for the link. MarnetteD | Talk 22:26, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL, So, according to Dante, my wife is an expert trumpet player.  As my lactose intolerant wife eats her weekly Friday ice cream, I'll just pretend she plays the trumpet.  My gas mask doesn't cover my ears, so I'll hear her play alot of music tonight. Bgwhite (talk) 22:29, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Question on editor creating mass, unreferenced stubs
Got an editor (User:Emijrp) creating stubs from every biographical article from the Polish Wikipedia. Has created 1,500 over the past week. The stubs just say name, year of birth and death, and a profession... no reference. When asked on their talk page to stop, their response is essentially get lost and stop bugging me. An AfD of footballers has been created for ~25 footballers. To me this is not kosher as no reference is given to back up if they are notable. In similar articles in the past, atleast a ref is given, such as the Dictionary of New Zealand Biography. Is this ok? Bgwhite (talk) 00:35, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you should take this to ANI, and drop User:Piotrus a line as well. Your guy has stopped for now; I have yet to assess the individual articles. But go place a thread at ANI so some other admins can look into it as well, please. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 00:39, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Are any of them BLPs? I wonder--look through the ANI archive to see what happened the last time Dr. Blofeld was brought up (besides the usual shouting). I think there was a tacit agreement that he would only create such stubs if there was at least one reference included, and we don't have any for these articles. You know what, I'll ask him myself. Drmies (talk) 00:43, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * None are BLPs that I've seen. I looked at ANI, oh I hate that place.  I see nothing that is an agreement that would be applicable here, but there is alot of bickering.  I'm on the wife's time, so will look more later. Bgwhite (talk) 01:43, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've found nothing that says, "you can't do it". I see where the vast majority of editors believe this is wrong and it shouldn't happen with Dr. Blofeld being, um, the loudest of the minority.  I have seen a few blocks put in place.  I've seen things deteriorate to where blocks happened for incivility.  DGG just left a message on the User's talk page to stop and Emijrp told him to "leave my user talk alone".  This isn't going to end well. Bgwhite (talk) 08:49, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry to butt in here but not all of Emijrp's efforts are in vain. Thanks to his one liners on Swedes, I recently picked up Simon de la Vallée and upgraded it to a valid article. There have been numerous complaints on his talk page but as far as I can see, his selections are based on the existence of one or more articles in other languages which usually also have images and a number of refs or sources. If the bots could look for these before flagging the articles for possible deletion, the problem may be solved. Strictly speaking, interwikis may not be acceptable as valid refs but they often contain excellent sources which can be reused. - Ipigott (talk) 10:30, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Eh, Bgwhite, I'm not sure how this has anything to do with me. If you still associate me with unsourced one liners then obviously you still have a problem with me. I detest the way you speak of me here. Do you think I like one line sub stubs too? I disliked them even when I created them myself but they were started like that for a reason to try to make wikipedia cover more topics in the long run. If you haven't taken note of my editing in the last few months then you clearly misunderstand why I am here. I don't support unreferenced one line sub stubs, never have but I understand Emijrp's way of thinking because I've been in that approach myself in the past where it seems we are missing so much that notable articles need to be started at all costs. And the articles he is starting are mostly very notable ones which we should have articles on. But at the same time we are an encyclopedia and have a duty to provide information and if the article is completely devoid of information then something is wrong. Its finding a balance and I believe that balance is starting sourced stubs with a few facts.The problem with starting unsourced one liners is that very few people actively expand them above all. Yes they do create placeholders which alert editors to the articles on other wikipedias which should be put in English but if you think about it seriously there are like 10 million articles which should be put in English and it would be absurd to create 10 million unsourced one liners just to say look, put this in English. The fact is very few people actually expand them, even if a few will get expanded so it might be a couple of years before anybody expands them and in due course several thousand readers will see it and leave in disgust. I think you both owe me an apology. I do a lot of referencing work on articles and would want more than anything for our 234,000 unsourced articles to go down to zero and every article to be good. I think I've totally given the wrong impression of the way I think on here and purpose because I've resorted to some extreme approaches in the past to try to get content to flourish! But however devoid Emijrp's stubs are of content, I think he is doing so actually for the love of content and wanting wikipedia to be many times more comprehensive in the long run.♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:33, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Bgwhite can do what they want, but your zeal to create articles of dubious quality (whether they are wholly unreferenced or not) is at least subject to valid criticism. If you require an example of one of your more recent creations, check out Afif Bahnassi, which has one source that supports only the last sentence and not the first two. There's virtually nothing in this tiny article to establish the notability of the subject, and you even stuck in a non-existent cat. And then there are the articles on Turkish academics (that seem to all come from one source) that probably don't satisfy WP:PROF. Then there's List of film accidents, a lovely list article with more citation needed tags than refs. But who can keep up with you (my god, man, 423K+ edits)?--Bbb23 (talk) 14:45, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Bbb, this was not the bash Blofeld section. Please don't expand on this. Ernst, this was not the bash-Blofeld section! Please don't think it is. I was merely asking, Ernst, if you could tell what the community consensus is, and/or what your own guidelines are. I know that you pull articles from books and indexes and that you include references--no one (certainly not Bgwhite or me) accused you of anything. What I get from your response (and I'm skipping over the personal stuff) is that you agree that one-sentence "placeholders" are not OK, and I think that the community at large feels the same way. Thanks Ernst, Drmies (talk) 14:52, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

LOL @ Bbb23, I know his type.. ♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:01, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Remove his unwarranted personal attack (the article contains entries from a merger which already contained citation tags which I intended to source later but I'm working damn hard on expanding the AFD sub stubs created by Emirj) and I'll remove my message and picture.♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:21, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Heh, Drmies doesn't want me to expand on this, and it is his Talk page - I'm just an interloper. So, I'll bow out.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:38, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Remember, no fighting in the war room. Drmies (talk) 16:31, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I left an apology at Dr. Blofeld talk page. It was not my intention to level any attacks. Bgwhite (talk) 22:09, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I thought that it was Wikipedia policy - decided at the very highest level - that stubs were to be actively encouraged. Long time ago I pursued the issue of hundreds of thousands of empty articles that were being created for every place name in the world, and was told, basically, that if I pursued the matter I'd be blocked. Stubs eliminate rival websites by swamping them. You seach for subject "xxxx", and all you get are a long list of urls to Wikipedia or the many Wikipedia clones. This pushes down any links to alternative websites that might contain actual content. It is to prepare for the day that Wikipedia accepts targeted commercial advertising. Meowy 11:14, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

You know
There's a twinkle gadget to just delete all those pages with one single edit summary? YOu don't have to go to every one of them individually to push the button! God, and I thought you'd make a good admin! &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  04:18, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * They do all have the edit summary pre-programmed. No one ever said I was smart, Spiffy--as long as I meet my deletion and blocking criteria, I'm fine. What brings you back to town? Drmies (talk) 04:20, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Spent a couple of months away from WP (which is quite a good feeling), so I figured I'd come back and get some women's cricket articles up to scratch, it's a very misogynistic 'pedia me thinks. How're things with you? Are you teaching over the summer or do you get to spend time with wife, kids and dog? (Anyway, on the mass deletion, it's d-batch, you can select all or some links from a page to delete based on an AfD). &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  04:25, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice to see you again. Yes, wife, kids, dog(s)(want one?), and pool, which is very necessary here. I'm also teaching the second summer term, terrifically exciting stuff but it pays the bills. I'll try that button next time--had no idea what it was. Hey, come by for a swim. Sitush is coming too, and Malleus, I hope. I'm actually sitting by the pool, almost midnight, and all is quiet on the Southern front. When you come, bring your guitar--I have a terrific 70s Marshall combo. Heard about MCA yet? Drmies (talk) 04:32, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Damn, sitting by the pool at midnight. My envy-meter just pinged.   Enjoy! Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:50, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Done for the night, you cold northerner. Hey, you can give Spiffy a ride when you come down. I gotta quite since I deleted more articles tonight than my quota called for. Natti natti, Drmies (talk) 04:52, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a long ride doc. Good night and stay out of trouble. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  04:54, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's 46 degrees and there is a horrible case of lake stink going on.... Organic material decomposes at the bottom of the lake and when a strong wind comes by, it churns the smell into the air.  All the windows are closed, but there still is a strong smell of something dead and I'm not talking about my wife's ass trumpet.  But, on the bright side, there is supposed to be a trace of snow in the morning.  $(#**% Drmies  Bgwhite (talk) 07:57, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

What to do about
something like this? Clearly this editor is creating a large burden on the community. What's an appropriate process to get him to stop until there's a consensus about how he should be permitted to edit? Bongo  matic  10:39, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, you could call the ANI cabal. Or you could threaten them with a block if they continue to create articles on not-notable characters without independent, third-party sourcing (I could be the blocker here). But the editor needs a clear explanation, Bongo-style, on their talk page. It seems that a user Valenciano started something already; start a new section. (The discussion with Thesimsmania on the latter's talk page is unhelpful--the blind trying to lead the blind.). I'll go look at some of the articles and delete what needs to go. Drmies (talk) 14:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Drmies I request your help as a favor
Hey Drmies, Its D, from kuwait as per my page Big D Kuwait I got approval from Sandstein to get my article approved if its edited by a admin and complies with the information he provided me, This is what he told me:
 * Find a previously established Wikipedia editor who is interested in the topic and, naturally, is not related to you or acting on your behalf. They can request that the deleted article be restored to their userspace where they can improve the article and, if they think that the problems identified in the deletion discussion are fixed, request consensus to restore the article to mainspace at WP:DRV. You yourself, per WP:COI, should not normally edit the article about yourself.  Sandstein   13:56, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

As per say your the only person whom I think could do this for me brother! please! as per my article passing the(music) Notability rules I came across a sentence that stated a musician may be notable if it meets at least "one of the following criteria": you claimed "ONE" the criteria's stated —"Published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles"— and I had a newspaper article “Big D - Kuwaiti rapper promotes positive message (Article – Via Arab Times)", If you want it in PDF format, “Click Here" I also have another reference which is www.kuwait-music.com which the website owner was interviewed by BBC and his website was nominated the leading website of music in Kuwait VIA ARAB TIMES I’m honored to say they featured me in their website too “Click here to view my User profile on Kuwait-Music.com” which was "online versions of print media" "Kuwait-Music.com is legit according to BBC click here "BBC News- Musicians in Kuwait struggle with censorship, Kuwait Music" and watch the video. Also according to ARAB TIMES newspaper article, "Kuwait-Music.Com Helps Bridge Cultures - Via Arab Times" So I can be accepted because I had more the one notable reference!

So I guess if you edit my article it I could be accepted because I have reliable sources and with your help we can make it possible bro, please try to help me brother, YOU WOULD MAKE MY DREAM COME TRUE, instead of them breaking my spirit, and I would be forever grateful towards your help. Your my last hope.  Big D  (talk • contribs) 15:04, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Big D, I can't do this for you as much as I'm rooting for you. The community has decided, and I don't want to override that. As I suggested before, it is not yet the time. You have bigger fish to fry than getting a Wikipedia article (which, really, doesn't mean that much anyway): you have records to make and shows to play. When it happens, it happens, and I'm sure you'll drop me a line when significant coverage appears or your album charts. Good luck. Drmies (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Forbes Fictional 15
After the protection expired for Forbes Fictional 15, the IP editor returned to adding the same argument. You mentioned that a block might be in order if this continues. What should I do about this? -Mabeenot (talk) 16:54, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I think maybe you should drop me a line on my talk page, and if I don't do anything about it, report the matter at WP:AIV, for starters. Then, continue to keep an eye on the article and if need be start an SPI. But maybe if you ask Drmies to block the IP for a week or two it will end. Maybe. ;) Drmies (talk) 16:57, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. ;) -Mabeenot (talk) 22:41, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Deletion of page Eden Weint Im Grab
Hi Drmies,

why have you deleted the page I created about the band Eden Weint Im Grab? The band has existed for about 10 years, has released several studio albums and music videos and plays live at festivals such as the famous Wave Gotik Treffen. What distinguishes that band from one that is relevant enough for Wikipedia?

Greets Marco — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marco Eckstein (talk • contribs) 17:25, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * References to reliable sources that establish notability. Sorry, but them's the shakes. Drmies (talk) 17:46, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the answer. Will you accept references to online and paper articles in music magazines in German language? --Marco Eckstein (talk) 10:36, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Online or German is fine--the requirement is that they be reliable sources (see WP:RS). I have a suggestion for you: look up User:Blackmetalbaz on his talk page and ask him what he thinks about the sources you have. Baz is a certified metalhead and knows those magazines and webzines inside out. He'll give you an honest answer, which you may not like but you'll know it's fair. Alles gute, Drmies (talk) 15:48, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks!--Marco Eckstein (talk) 17:33, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

European School of the Hague
There are several references, but I'm not convinced this (not yet open) school is truly notable. Would you render your opinion? (I haven't looked at all the refs yet, but at least the one I did seems basically to be a press release... ho hum.) Lady  of  Shalott  19:21, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw the same article while patrolling new pages and debating PRODing it, in the end leaving it be, even though it deserved the tag. Picking my battles, I guess.   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  19:29, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I did prod it, but the prod has been contested. Lady  of  Shalott  19:32, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw that. The secondary won't open for another 1-2 years, but the nature of the school made me think it will get a few more sources before then.  I agree with your logic, at best it is crystalballing, but again, just picking my battles.  I just noticed the editor is fairly new but hit the ground running, I wonder if they are on other language Wikis.   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  19:46, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm looking into it. The text is possibly misleading: it is a subset, it seems, of the Rijnlands Lyceum (for the Dutchies--een echte kakkerschool, geloof ik). Can you translate this? More later. Drmies (talk) 21:14, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, ok; I've used GTranslate now to get a rough idea of that page. So maybe it should be merged into an article about the entire Rijnlands Lyceum? Lady  of  Shalott  21:23, 5 May 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, I think, Lady, that's the way to go. Rijnlands Lyceum deserves an article, this school doesn't--at least not yet. There are sources, but only two of them can be called reliable--this is a sentence or two and this is a bit more (but that's not in a major news source). Drmies (talk) 22:31, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Drmies. A propos de nothing, I had someone ask me today the difference between fiction and non-fiction.Noo for an educational system that let her get to adulthood without knowing the answer to that, but yay for her asking the question. Lady  of  Shalott  22:42, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I created Rijnlands Lyceum Foundation. You need to decide whether to merge or just redirect--I leave that up to you. I'll make Rijnlands Lyceum as a redirect. Drmies (talk) 23:02, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Great. I just redirected. You'd already stated in your article that this one is coming. I really didn't see anything beyond that worth mentioning in the parent organization page. I expect objection though. Lady  of  Shalott  23:25, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
 * My concern is always the preservation of the history. A kind of attribution is needed since I borrowed the sources. I'll go ahead and merge. Drmies (talk) 00:19, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that does seem right. I think this is a good solution all around. Thanks! Lady  of  Shalott  00:37, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, thank you, and Dennis too. Drmies (talk) 01:46, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Kickin' and Screamin'
Looks too soon to me. The sources say nothing on the album and/or are unreliable. I say AFD it. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 22:01, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Question
I started to post a question for you and then I started to doubt whether it would be appropriate to do so (it's been a long day). So, in the abstract, is it okay to ask you here for advice as to what to do about another editor's conduct vis-a-vis me?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:49, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure. Or you can email me. Or meet me in the park in half an hour. Drmies (talk) 01:03, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * LOL. We're going to a concert this evening, so I'll take a pass on the park. Here's the question. Would you take further action based on this comment, which I asked him to retract, but to no avail. Some insults roll of my back, but I find the bigot label more offensive than others. Sceptre's overall conduct in this Bradley Manning gender identity brouhaha is more troubling from a Wikipedia perspective than the insult, but my question is directed to the "personal" issue.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:12, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I noticed your comment at Sceptre's Talk page (thanks) and User:Elonka's similar somewhat more forceful comment. He hasn't responded to either of you, although he has been editing today, mainly still pushing his agenda about Manning and gender identity - see one of the choicer comments. What next? Do I wait some more based on the possibility he's considering how to respond (you'd think that two admins expressing the same concern would give him some pause), or ...? Oh, yeah, I should have met you in the park - the concert was a major disappointment.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:14, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry I missed you. We had some fun--Kelapstick brought moonshine. I won't act any further on the insult; that Elonka weighed in adds credibility to the charge but you know (maybe) that I won't easily block for incivility. (Sceptre has been around--I'm sure he doesn't give a rat's ass for my opinion.) If there is more, if this is a pattern (and you say it is), then you need to take it higher up, to the community. The dramah board. Or, as you'll probably be told, an RfC/u. Or you can bait him and make him say worse things. No, don't do that. But more personal attacks of the same kind will, in the end, convince one admin or other to block. Drmies (talk) 21:21, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't feel like wasting my time. At this point, the most appropriate option would be WP:WQA, and I can't imagine that being constructive in this instance. I don't think Sceptre gives a rat's ass for anyone's opinion about anything, actually, unless it happens to coincide with his own.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:27, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Featured
Remember an article we worked on last year (November, I think)... Well, I'm seeing stars. Can't wait to see Get the Fuck to Sleep at GA sometime. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:54, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well done Crisco! You are rapidly becoming a big underground success in this here town! Hey, did you ever look at Andy Tielman? Drmies (talk) 16:04, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Never, actually. I could look into it sometime during the week (at least to get rid of some of the tags). Who knows, maybe Highbeam has something. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:19, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Was I overly harsh? Cut 7k bytes of junk. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

cn templates on Giulia Marletta page
Drmies! Thanks for the heads up. I can access references that I came across, and I can take care of those "citation needed" templates over the next few days. On the image with Giulia in a leather jacket, when the photographer released two images, I did not refuse. My view of images on Wikipedia is that they are gold. I have banged my head against the wall trying to find images for some other articles, and these came so easily. An image of her on a set speaking with a director might be more appropriate as a companion image, however, that will require more searching. My thoughts on the leather jacket image are that it may be useful in the future, possibly on another Wiki (if I build up the confidence to go there again and have a well-thought-out diplomatic approach!). I would like to keep the leather jacket image active for anticipated future use, if we can do that. Thanks again! Doc2234 (talk) 00:14, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I hope you understand why I removed one of them--I just picked the one that was not the first. Feel free to switch. Crisco suggested sticking the image in the hook; I don't know how to do that afterward, but I'm sure Crisco does. The image, now that you uploaded it, is not going anywhere. Except my desktop, of course. Drmies (talk) 00:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Done Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:42, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks! She looks SO much better than that green thing. Drmies (talk) 02:45, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll work on adding the additional citations maybe this evening, but definitely tomorrow evening. Seriously, I am trying to get more than just one image inserted into all of the pages that I have edited. For Giulia's page, would a photo of her at an interview or in discussion with a director be the type of image that would work on the page? Doc2234 (talk) 18:31, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

A gem
Check this out, before it's gone - 'cause it sure ain't staying. Lady of  Shalott  01:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I still don't know why we don't have a speedy for that. Drmies (talk) 02:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I know. That is clearly not appropriate by any standards. My favorite bit is the mention of "former President Jones Jefferson". I also like "electronic glucose". Lady  of  Shalott  02:18, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I briefly considered removing all the unsourced and POV statements from the article... which would, of course, have blanked it totally, but I resisted the urge. I know that the speedy delete categories are intentionally conservative, but there really should be a speedy category for "Unsourced personal essay", since, even if the PROD fails, there's no way it will survive an AfD -- and why should we have to go through all that bureaucracy if the outcome is inevitable? Inevitable deletes should be speediable. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think some admins pull out WP:IAR to speedily delete this sort of thing. I haven't yet done that. Lady  of  Shalott  03:08, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Guess what I had to pull out today. BMK, you can link this to a new CSD category, Wikipedia is not for things made up one day. Drmies (talk) 03:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I know who wrote it. Or not. I once wound up at a party in his apartment. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 03:20, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I love hearing about old parties; details would be appreciated. NPR had a story today about Dick Cavett and Groucho Marx. People used to be much smarter, certainly much smarter than me. Drmies (talk) 03:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It was 20 years ago. Alas, nothing much to tell, unless you find it interesting that in the middle of the soiree a young woman loudly called me out for a perceived slight. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 12:26, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Tell me more! Were champagne cocktails served? Who supplied the cocaine? Was there slumming afterwards? Drmies (talk) 14:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * There's less. I was there for all of two minutes, as best as I can recall. Not enough time to sample intoxicants, but just enough to namedrop all these years later. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 15:09, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Back on topic. How about no context? The article does not have a topic. Also, you missed an excellent impromptu camping. Trip in the wine region. Even came home with a case of some award winning white something or other. I was chasing chickens with the kids while Mrs. K was selecting it. --kelapstick(bainuu) 05:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Another possible rationale for speedy: nonsense. Is the article coherent? 99.136.254.195 (talk) 12:26, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It isn't nonsense per the definition we give the term for speedy delete. What one person calls an essay, another might call an article that needs work, so a CSD category wouldn't likely be helpful and would be too easily abuse.  It does make my meager authoring skills look exceptional by comparison, however.  About half way through, my eyes glazed over and I gave up on reading it.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  13:17, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Dennis is right, I'm afraid. A Yaley is probably too elitist to judge what common folk would call incoherent nonsense. Drmies (talk) 14:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No no no, lest I give the wrong impression--I live in some proximity, but am not an Eli. And not elitist, I hope. I figured the 'nonsense' rationale was a stretch, and yes, such writing makes me feel like Flaubert by comparison. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 15:07, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Many would argue that CSD criteria shouldn't be stretched, and only used in narrowest definition of the criteria, as to promote discussion over unilateral action. Other admins will delete an article that clearly doesn't fit a criteria in the name of "well, it would have gotten deleted anyway".  I'm beginning to take a more strict approach myself, after years of sending borderline articles to CSD, solely because of the risk of abuse in the current system, where a single person can act as police, judge and executioner in a single click of the button with virtually no oversight.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  15:17, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I think there is oversight. Every admin has enemies who stalk them; the quick demise of User:Fastily is a case in point. And while an admin can take all those three roles, it is worth noticing that "judge" and "executioner" are the same thing anyway, in this comparison (unless you want to propose a system with more tiers) and that in most cases the police is other editors. I don't think it's common at all for an admin to delete on sight--I rarely do it, unless it blatantly demeans gays, women, or Neil Young. Drmies (talk) 15:32, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay, but spammers and disruptive accounts persistently re-create deleted articles; if a legitimate borderline piece is deleted it can easily be re-submitted, with an attempt to improve the areas of concern. I don't have a problem with making the process of article creation a bit difficult, because if you've got the sources it's actually exceedingly easy. That's not intended to be elitist, but it does presume, and require, a minimum of scholarship, and that's not an unreasonable expectation... Here's one I've wondered about for a long time, and perhaps it's been explained elsewhere: given that records can be speedied for lack of notability, why haven't similar criteria been provided to delete non-notable books? 99.136.254.195 (talk) 15:38, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know, 99--it was decided before my time or while I wasn't watching. I've seen reference made to such a decision in the past tense (well, preterite). Personally, I think what goes for records ("records"? I had to think about that for a moment--"this is the wax, I'm using the CD" as the Beatsie boys said) should go for books also. If I had to guess, I'd say that if anyone knows it should be DGG. As for article creation, we have WP:AFC for that, currently hopelessly backlogged, as a mechanism that should accomplish improvement before publication. But 9 out of 10 articles there don't meet the guidelines (see my recent history for how much I turn down, and I'm somewhat liberal, I like to think). AfC requires dedication, and User:Chzz, now also retired, was the man there--he was great and I think he single-handedly kept that section afloat for a while, probably with T.Canens. Drmies (talk) 15:49, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, doesn't Wikipedia refer to them as 'records'? Of course 'CD's are now hopelessly anachronistic as well. By the way, I like the above portmanteau of Beatles and Beastie Boys. DGG would know re: the book question. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I was just citing "The Biz vs. The Nuge" from Check Your Head. Tell DGG I said hi if you holler at him; I'm checking out. Drmies (talk) 16:07, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Re: 'the Nuge': echh. Feel better. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 16:43, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Back on topic again... I've been pointed to this discussion after turning down a G1 speedy nomination on this "gem." Dearly as I would like to speedy it, I cannot see one that I can stretch my conscience to fit - G1 is for the likes of "kjh3 734 8,et9 0i##5" or 22Yaaaaayyyy LOL!!!!!", A1 no context "applies only to very short articles"; it isn't promotional enough for G11; I was very hopeful of G12 because walls of text like this are usually copyvio, but I can't find a source. Many people, including me, have proposed a speedy for "blatantly made up one day", but it always gets turned down on problems of definition. IAR speedies are much too dangerous a slippery slope to start down. Oh well, seven days isn't that long... JohnCD (talk) 22:28, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I suppose "short article" is subjective, unfortunately we don't have anything to define what a short article is, unlike usernames, where we have a clearly defined criterion to determine if one is too long. *Cue Drmies saying "that's what she said". It is probably not enough to be deleted as an attack page, although the article can be seen as a vehicle to call Michelle Obama a hypocrite for eating zoysia wings, ribs, and burgers, while promoting a healthy diet (I suppose you could remove everything not related to Mrs. Obama per the title of the article, and nominate it that way)...I still think no context would be appropriate as the entire article (except for the mention at the start) is not about the title at all, despite the length, as the actress said to the bishop, size does not matter, so why should it for A1.  As for made up in one day, while it is tempting to have a speedy category for that, I can see how it could be be abused, either intentionally or otherwise, as lots of things look made up in one day, but end up not being so.  A pain to be sure, but there is always db-hoax for those that are clearly a train-wreck.--kelapstick(bainuu) 01:54, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Gem go bye-bye. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:41, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Gem II
Hi Drmies; any suggestions re: WFSB appreciated, including 'knock it off, waste of time.' A virtual bottle of ale awaits. Cheers, 99.136.254.195 (talk) 02:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Homer might not say he was wrong, though he was. Sorry, I had skipped that entire thread and didn't recognize your "range". Let me leave him a note. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:33, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's okay. I've fallen down a rabbit hole and can't get up. Need to disengage. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 02:36, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * On your next run-through, can you remove the unnecessary bold print in that directory? (There is agreement that the list of current people is OK, but there should be a link to the page that contains that information.) Drmies (talk) 02:38, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I don't want to go anywhere near the article again. It's better if anyone else does it. Thanks, and let me know if I'm over the line at all. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 02:45, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Interesting--though offering me an English beer is a bit over the line, yes. Gorgeous glass, and gorgeous color, also. I'm not going to speak for my friend Homer, but he's been working on those articles for a long, long time, and being territorial comes with the territory. I, and I think this applies to you as well, am a wikislut. Thanks for the brew; I wish I had something this fine in the fridge. Drmies (talk) 02:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * By 'wikislut' I presume you mean an unquestioning attraction to anyone with a facility for turning a phrase, and supplying a reliable source for said phrase. Oooh. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 03:01, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey joker, I made you something: John Martin (brewery). I couldn't easily find a lot of references--care to help expand? This summer I hope to make a stop at Westvleteren Abbey. Drmies (talk) 03:07, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I can't find a reliable source. Will have to propose speedy deletion as non-notable company. Lucky you--we're not planning to go overseas anytime soon, but there will be a few trips closer to home. Modest intake of alcohol anticipated. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 03:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Try it--and then I'll try my first range block. Any stalkers care to beef up a beer article? Drmies (talk) 03:12, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sonofabitch. My guess is you'll knock out half of the Yale community and immediate environs, but that will probably be no great loss. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 03:14, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Hey
Not sure if you remember me, but it's been a while. How are you? When did you become an admin? - Zhou Yu (talk) 03:43, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Aha, Mr. Krabs! It's been a while. I see you're back and keeping out of trouble? I became an admin in May 20 07 11 and have since left a wide path of destruction in my wake. Any idea who that person was who came by and now is gone? Haha, I recognize your talk page organization now--that always struck me as so much work. Hey, be careful with BongoMatic: he doesn't fuck around, so stay on his good side. Thanks for the note, and see you around, Drmies (talk) 03:50, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I thought you just recently became one for some reason. Also, yeah. Recently came back from an indefinite ban for edit warring back in December 2010. Definitely not doing that ever again. I shall go to talk pages. I'm also working on earning Huggle back. =) - Zhou Yu (talk) 03:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ahem. See refactoring / correction above. Bongo  matic  05:21, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bongo. An admin with fever is a dangerous admin, though. Hey, maybe I got it from you, pal. Are you better yet? Drmies (talk) 14:47, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks . . . just staggering back to life. Hope you recover swiftly. <sup style="color:green;">Bongo  <sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex; color:blue;">matic  16:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * When I saw that 2007, I thought you were just being funny, Drmies. Sorry to hear you're ill - feel better soon! Sorry you've also been sick, but glad you're doing better, Bongo. Drmies, have someone read you a book where a main character gets murdered by pirates. Lady  of  Shalott  00:44, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't do funny, Lady. Pirates--for the non-librarians watching, there is a distinct genre within romance novel literature devoted to pirate affairs. Typically, a woman who is meant for another man gets kidnapped by a pirate who then rapes her, after which she falls in love with him (that kind of rape is called Forced seduction). Very exciting stuff. But Lady, no one is reading to me. I did muster enough energy to read I Want My Hat Back to the girls and I felt a lot better after that. Rosie: "He eated the bunny!" Drmies (talk) 02:06, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Do feel better, Drmies. Being sick isn't fun. I had to stay home from school on Wednesday, April 18th because I was burning up with 102.9 on the night of Tuesday, April 17th. I actually could have gone, but my mom insisted I take a day to rest. - Zhou Yu (talk) 03:30, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I fear my reference was too obscure. Grandpa's setting the scene for a tale, and the young boy says "'Murdered by pirates' is good." I'm glad that thieving bunnies and murderous bears (and your daughters' reactions thereto) helped.  Lady  of  Shalott  11:26, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Re Klassen: "There has been, however, some discussion about the book's ending, whether it is appropriate if in a children's book one character kills another without repercussion." Yeah, 'cause, y'know bad stuff never happens in fairy tales. Oh, wait... Lady  of  Shalott  14:11, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * My kids don't have a problem with it. This strikes me as such an American thing--you should see the Dutch and German children's books we read. I asked one of my lit classes why US children's books don't deal with serious topic. There was no answer. I thought it was sad that they weren't taught how to handle difficult things (you know, all dogs go to heaven of course), and the answer was, from one student, "I think it's sad if a child doesn't know about heaven." I have nothing to say to that. Drmies (talk) 14:20, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

<--As to the why, I don't know. I know I mentioned Gregoire Solotareff to you. Of the few books by him I've read, so far only one has seemed like a "normal" children's book to me. Do you have any good recommendations for German and Dutch children's books? In English translation would be nice if they exist, but I can work with dictionaries and Google translate if they don't. BTW, I got really pissed off once when I heard an interview on public radio with this guy (whose name I can't now recall) who has published a bunch of children's books in England that teach physics concepts. He can't get anyone in the US to publish them, apparently because our children are too dumb for such things. Lady of  Shalott  14:33, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You can try Duck, Death and the Tulip; and you can help get it on the front page. ;) All of Erlbruch's books are fantastic: the man deserves a Nobel prize. We're also reading Pippy Longstocking. We like this book a lot, and I used to read/sing this at Montessori (but with different illustrations, unless the different cover deceives me). In Dutch, you cannot beat Annie M. G. Schmidt. Otje is about a girl whose father (there is no mother) keeps getting fired because of anger management issues and he has no papers; Pluk van de Petteflet is one of the all-time bestsellers in Dutch for all the right reasons. Ha, in Otje the father gets admitted to a psych ward and is doped up with all kinds of imaginary drugs, including "Tranidol", a play on "tranendal"--"vale of tears". Drmies (talk) 14:59, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Did I say "him"? thanks! Drmies (talk) 16:17, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a one of those is in the PINES system. Bah. Did you hear that Maurice Sendak died today? Lady  of  Shalott  17:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * NPR had a nice story on him, yes. Sendak's monsters come around the same time, roughly, as Pluk and his magic berries (I think I put that in the article, with a couple of references)--this rebellion against authority. People seem to forget that children's books reflect the time much more than we think, and that we instill those contemporary values in our kids in the simplest of ways, by reading. BTW, we had a hoot again with the bear and the rabbit. Rosie loves that book. She felt the rabbit in her tummy. Oh! Speaking of good books, try Max Velthuijs. We read Kikker en het vogeltje tonight ("Look! it's broken!" "No, he's asleep."), and the last paragraph of Frog (picture books) comes from that book. Drmies (talk) 03:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Wine
Since he is calling me a liar, I felt it best if someone else looked at the situation. He has failed to participate at ANI and this talk page until the ANI started, and well, the rest is obvious. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;   &copy;  15:34, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not really in a state of mind to plow through the history of all their remarks. You said that there isn't enough for a real edit-warring charge and I agree. Strictly speaking they said your comment was a lie, not that you were a liar, so that technicality gets them off the hook for NPA. Having said that, it's clear from their edits, summaries, and comments that we're dealing with a highly combative editor whose net worth to the project I haven't discerned yet. I may weigh in at ANI at a later time, but you are within your right to speak sternly, I suppose, about their making such comments. But before I delve into this I'll need a nap and some fever-suppressants (house is full of sick kids, including me). If things don't improve but they stay on this side of NPA and disruption (maybe they're past that, I can't tell right now) maybe an RfC is in order (I'm less interested in Wine than in the editor's behavior). Sorry, Drmies (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That is fine. I have politely replied asking them if they are aware that their comments may be seen as a personal attack.  I'm pretty tolerant of personal attacks myself, but it is disruptive in the larger scheme of things, and would argue that the comment is a personal attack, ie: one who tells lies is a liar.  I'm trying to give him the chance to substitute "you are mistaken", as perhaps it is a communications issue, but he is very combative and his habit of constantly reverting without going to the talk page are bordering on warring, even if they don't approach 3RR every time.   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  16:04, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. Drmies (talk) 16:07, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like someone else took care of it, via WP:WARRING.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  17:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
<small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 16:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC) 16:15, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

AFC/CSD question
Hey Excirial, got a question for you. An AfC you declined was nominated for CSD spam. Is there any point to that? Or, do we nominate AfC submissions for db-spam in the first place? Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:41, 6 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Speaking purely for myself: I tend to be much more lenient with AFC submissions as they are not in the article space, and because AFC is similar to a sandbox or incubator where people can develop their article's. Because of that my deletions tend to be limited to copyright violations and personal attack pages - Copyright violations because of legal reasons, attack pages because any content that needs a revdel needs to go anyway as far as i'm concerned.


 * I'm not aware of any special rule regarding AFC pages, but since AFC pages tend to be more controlled then the article space i see little reason to remove them outright. If people don't choose to improve them they are not in the way anyhow. Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs ) 17:19, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree absolutely. Thanks for your response. Drmies (talk) 17:21, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Image uploading advice.
Good Evening Drmies, hope all is well with you on this fine day. I have a quickie question or two to ask. I recently saved an article from deletion, and started to work on it by expanding the article with more notable details. The article is Cute (Maltese band), and I was wondering if you could cast eyes over it when you get a spare moment, and let me know if it no longer qualifies as a "stub". Secondly, what are the policies on using images from ImageShack photo sharing website? Only reason I ask, is because I was thinking of using this image on the aforementioned article; but not sure if it would breach copyvio or not. Thank you in advance - Wesley  ☀  Mouse  22:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm no expert, but I think it crossed the bar from "stub" to "short article" in size, although the sources/notability have me worried. Personally, I would be tempted to leave it as it gives a little bit of cover to an article, almost like an "under construction" tag, but that is your call.  As for the photo, it is copyrighted, and a "Fair Use" exception is unlikely as I don't see it meeting the rather strict criteria of "Copyrighted images that reasonably can be replaced by free/libre images are not suitable for Wikipedia.", found at Non-free content.  For Fair Use, you have to show that no alternative can reasonably be had that could be freely licensed under the CC.  Examples include book covers, album covers, deceased person, or other things that can't easily be replaced with a non-free version.  You could go up to a concert and snap a shot of them, which is "easy" by the copyright standard.  If you want another opinion, you could also ask User:Dpmuk or User:Moonriddengirl, who clerk the copyright area regularly.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  23:34, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Wesley, I wouldn't call it a stub necessarily. I've upped it to Start on the talk page; feel free to remove the stub tag on the article. I don't do a lot of assessments so I don't know if this would be a C already. Drmies (talk) 23:38, 7 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought you were sick, go lie down.  Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  23:59, 7 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hope you feel better soon. — Ched : ?  00:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. At least the girls are in bed, and I'll be following soon after. But I had some Pez-related matters to take care of. Drmies (talk) 02:01, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh I didn't know Drmies was feeling unwell. Hmmm get a hot toddy down your neck, that'll soon get you back on the mend again.  Thank you to all for looking into this for me.  I'm actually proud of myself expanding my first article all on my own, and in such detail too.  @Dennis Brown, the sources used are reliable per discussions on the project page; all of the websites currently being sourced from have been used across the rest of the project for a while now, so I trust their notability from them.  The image I'm still not sure about.  The image source is from a blog site, and is of the girl group; but I cannot find any other images that come under "fair use" anywhere.  Although, there is one on the ESCKaz.com website, which an original; but no details about copyright use for it though.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  00:36, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I would trust your judgement on the sources. Fair use is easier to get when the subject themselves owns the property, not a third party.  Fair Use is still copyright infringement, but it is an allowed exception  under strict and narrow rules, defined by law, and enforced even stricter on Wikipedia.  I'm not an expert on Wikipedia policy on copyright, but I deal with copyright/trademark issues at my work, so again, you should get a second opinion if you are inclined to use the image.  Oh, and if it doesn't say what the copyright is, we always consider that "fully copyrighted" here, as does the law in the US.   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  00:47, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Cultural landmark
I had to share this with somebody. Feel free to alert Mandarax, who ought to appreciate this as well. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 01:16, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You have to admit, no puffery, no peacock terms. I'm leaving a polite message with the article creator about their name, User:Burlingamepez214 which might be a violation of UAA.   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  01:24, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That is pretttty impressive. Every single one? Drmies (talk) 01:44, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Last year's Burning Man, with a theme of Rites of Passage, featured a work entitled The Right of Pezzage. It was a fifteen foot tall chicken-headed Pez dispenser. As it was so tall, it would require cooperation of several participants to tilt back the chicken's head; it would dispense huge plastic Pez capsules containing various items, including regular-sized Pez dispensers. I encountered it near the end, as its creator was preparing it to be burned. He told me that, unfortunately, it never did work. (Among the other pieces which never worked was the Hellevator, which promised to take participants thousands of miles below the Playa surface.)  M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  08:42, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I bet the Burlingame Museum of Pez Memorabilia didn't have that one. But check this out!--kelapstick(bainuu) 08:45, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're still not going this year, Mandarax? For Hell, try Under the Volcano. Drmies (talk) 13:38, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * In "a small room in the back of an old computer store." Culture flourishes everywhere....nice work finding references. Mandarax, as for the 'Hellevator': completely unnecessary, as involvement in academia serves the same purpose. Also, following the presidential primaries. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 13:48, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hear hear, unfortunately. Wait--is Mandarax involved in academia? He's like Chanandelor Bong. Maybe he is a transponster. Drmies (talk) 14:17, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Reliability
Hi, would you like to join WikiProject Wikipedia reliability? Membership is free this month. History2007 (talk) 02:34, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That offer is almost too good to accept. It looks like a very worthwhile project, but I'm afraid I'm too much of a loose cannon/wikislut to be in a project. But I will keep you on my watchlist and I might check in every now and then. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 03:09, 8 May 2012 (UTC)


 * AS you wish. But next month there will be a 10% increase in membership dues. History2007 (talk) 07:49, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll have you know I'm a paid editor. You can use PayPal if you like. Drmies (talk) 13:35, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Huh?
What are you doing with Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Bideford 1st XI? --kelapstick(bainuu) 03:25, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, something messed up, it was nominating for deletion...--kelapstick(bainuu) 03:26, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * For some reason it tagged it as a history merge or something rather than a G6 deletion. By the time I went to revert it you merged everything...Regardless, I need another coffee, as this one is disappointing. --kelapstick(bainuu) 03:29, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's all gone now. Wait, so you're having breakfast? How's the bacon over there? I was watching a guy make sausage on a tv show--I'm interested, and I have a meat-grinding machine. Drmies (talk) 03:31, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Nah, just lunch. Thanks for the effort, now my watchlist has a whole mess of red on it. :)  The bacon is pretty poor, however we have found short back bacon or something like that, which is like really thin peameal bacon (as we call it in Canada, only with out the peameal), which is pretty awesome. --kelapstick(bainuu) 03:33, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Need a headache?
Try reading Jeremy Ladell Murph. Bgwhite (talk) 06:58, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Holy. Crap. I have a migraine now.  I went ahead and nom'd that eyesore for speedy deletion per A7. - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 07:02, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ugh, the dreaded wall of text...why no BLPPROD on that one. I see it is up for A7 though (per above). You think that gives a headache, the MMA debate has spilled over to professional wrestling...why do I even watchlist this stuff?--kelapstick(bainuu) 07:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * On a lighter note, do you think that this (provided the link works) should be included in the MC Hammer article? I will be down town Friday, and may try to grab a snapshot of it.--kelapstick(bainuu) 07:53, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't anymore kelpastick, although I see it at ANI. You would think they would get the hint, since no admin will get involved in these long winded disputes.  We could just mass delete all the wrestling and MMA articles and protect the pages from creation, but I think that someone might notice that ;)   Dennis Brown  -  2&cent;   &copy;  12:11, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's Deelite-ful, K. Drmies (talk) 13:34, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And you are probably a better person for it Dennis. I see someone already put a stop sign picture in the MC Hammer article, looks like I am too late. --kelapstick(bainuu) 22:53, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Second opinion
Recreated Waffen-SS userbox popped up on my watchlist today. I don't know what's with me lately; up until recently I was a card carrying member of the "trolling is best defeated by ignoring it" party. But as recent event have shown, I'm becoming more susceptible in my old age. You don't suppose the next step is to become a Republican?!!?! I remember you commented when I previously used IAR to delete it. IYHO, would I be too heavy handed if I deleted and salted and warned against recreation? Or would you take the more traditional (but more trolling-prone) MFD route? Or would you recommend I revert to the old me, and just ignore it unless someone is actually offended by it and complains? --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:13, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * - I'd be happy to assist if desired. — Ched : ?  17:34, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't really need help with anything, just seeking an opinion, but of course you're more than welcome to chime in and give yours too, Ched. As is anyone else. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:42, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * OK .. opinion only: It is offensive to the point of disruption, and in my opinion intended to do just that. I was tempted to delete myself, but thought it best to wait for you (and/or Drmies) to comment further.  I personally would not hesitate for a second to delete such an obvious "trolling attempt" (the content, not calling any person such).  Conclusion: Delete with fire and salt like an unripe tomato.   Just IMHO. — Ched :  ?  17:47, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete. Salt. Warn. Actually, looking at Special:Contributions/Dzlinker leaves sort of an icky feeling, but probably doesn't quite rise to the level of block-worthiness. MastCell Talk 17:50, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you both, page deleted and salted, user warned. I think after seeing my judgement was significantly different than the "Community's"  on a slightly related issue last week, I'm less sure of myself than usual. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:06, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So much excitement while I was at Home Depot. I'm going to restore this thang, of course, because of censorship blahblahblah. Drmies (talk) 18:15, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Speaking of Community... highly recommended, if you don't already watch it. MastCell Talk 18:19, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks--never even heard of it. The only show I watch is The Killing, and I was so sick Sunday that I forgot to watch it. Thanks for the tip. Drmies (talk) 18:21, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Natalia Livingston
Thanks for leaving a message at the subject's talk page; I don't think she quite gets the way Wikipedia works, hence her deletion of your and some of my advice to her. She means well, and is cooperative, but her impulse is to micromanage the article as if it's a public relations page. Have a look at the article when you've got a minute, and see if I'm being unreasonable. For now I'm done with it. Thanks, and hope everyone is doing better today. 99.136.254.195 (talk) 18:57, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're not, of course. She wouldn't be the first one to think of "her" page like that and she won't be the last. She has a lovely smile, by the way. WP would be much simpler if we only dealt with dead people. Yes, much better, thanks! Drmies (talk) 19:31, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I've always been a sucker for pretty actresses. In the art business, too, galleries prefer to deal with dead painters, because they don't have to pay them their 40% cut. Thanks, 99.136.254.195 (talk) 19:51, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

A review of a review
Drmies (and stalkers): This question was posted on ANI,and the editor wanted an opinion on his own actions, without notifying the target editor in question. I was hoping someone else would just jump on it (I'm trying to get ready for a few days off) but they didn't. The thread is here:. I might not get a chance to converse over it, and it is very simple, and just curious as to your opinion as to my handling. For the sake of this, assume he had good reasons to think there was a COI, with an editor removing criticisms, etc. and he left a neutral template for level 1 COI. I'm asking for a review of my decision in offering a simple answer and closing it immediately, to keep it within the guidelines regarding notification. Dennis Brown -  2&cent;   &copy;  23:53, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw the thread and looked at it briefly but didn't have time to respond this afternoon. I don't quite see how leaving a COI warning is such a big deal in the first place, and I assume also that they did so in good faith. It seems that the other editor isn't exactly editing neutrally, so a COI is easily suspected. I don't know if they tagged the article; if so, I hope they explained on the talk page (they didn't, I see now). So sure, your answer looks fine to me. It's odd, though--really we shouldn't be checking on the article and the COI issues since the other editor wasn't notified. So a quick close is warranted; I myself have little interest in the article. But it is possible that another admin disagrees, that the other editor should have been notified--in that case they'll probably reopen the discussion. But I wouldn't worry about it. Drmies (talk) 02:31, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Help request
Hi, Professor. Can you (or an admin talk page stalker) help with this? Thanks  Tide  rolls  02:07, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Namuslu evading his block?
I just thought I'd draw your attention to the recent edits at Istanbul by and. Perhaps I'm just a bit too suspicious, but the editors (from the same IP range from which Namuslu evaded a previous block) have been slowly replicating the same reverts Namuslu was guilty of performing. Namely, this (re)addition and these pictures come from the version of the article Namuslu repeatedly reverted to last week. It seems odd to me that an IP editor (or anyone, for that matter) new to a page would make the effort of going back into the history (wading through all the edits I made in the interim) to find these pieces. More likely, this is Namuslu just evading his block. --  tariq abjotu  02:31, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I noticed you commented on your talk page at the same time I posted this, so I'm not sure if you missed the notice of a new comment, or are just planning to respond a bit later. --  tariq abjotu  02:58, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm looking into it. Drmies (talk) 03:06, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That article is way too big--getting one of the individual diffs in takes a minute or more. Each section that has a "main article" needs to be cut by 3/4 or so. You understand, I'm looking at one diff after another and it's kind of frustrating. OK, I'm not a smart guy and I can't do technical stuff with figuring out IPs and all. The diffs you gave were for IP .250, and an obvious duck is obvious. If you can do the same for the most recent IP, we're really in business. In the meantime, I'm going to semi-protect the article and reset the block for Namusl; any other admin passing by can increase that block if they think it's fair. Unfortunately those IPs have been on quite a rampage, and guess who the guy is who gets to clean it up: you. Let me know if you can nail the other IP(s) with evidence from diffs. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:14, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know the article is extremely long. Actually, I was literally minutes away from initiating a peer review of the article (with the aim of address issues like length) until this guy came along. That being said, I'm surprised that even looking at diffs was time-consuming. Oh, and don't worry about the time it would take to clean up the article; that actually won't take long. --  tariq abjotu  03:27, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've changed my mind and will start a quick thread at ANI. Drmies (talk) 03:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Could I get an impartial view from a stalker?
Another editor, User:Cerejota, and I are having a "disagreement". Could somebody give an impartial view at Talk:Grover Furr. Grover Furr is a history professor with some, um, "interesting" views. Bgwhite (talk) 05:28, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Bg, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed? Drmies (talk) 15:45, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll drop a note on the talk page, if anyone cares for my opinion as a reformed Trotskist. Drmies (talk) 15:50, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess I did wake up on the wrong side of the bed when "Joseph Stalin tried to democratize the Soviet Union" or "But the truth is that the USSR did not invade Poland in September, 1939" is deemed politically controversial, only controversial by the right and I can't use the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review as a ref on those quotes because the paper is right leaning. While the left-leaning ref is ignored.  This is the first time I've run into where partisan politics has been brought up and played a role in an editor's thinking.  First time I've run into where historical facts questioned by a history professor is immaterial because some of the refs are right-leaning even if left-leaning refs are mentioned too.  As stated, I'm just an incompetent editor.  Bgwhite (talk) 20:48, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't read Dr. Furr's work on Stalin, and I have no intention of doing--those statements are ridiculous, of course. Lots of historical facts are questioned by professors, and very often it is immaterial that that happens, at least for Wikipedia purposes. I don't know what the left-leaning sources are, but I would hope that you would not think that my assessment is politically tainted. But there is also the basic assessment of notability. Re: the wrong side of the bed, you came out with guns blazing there. Drmies (talk) 23:22, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of when you have ever been political on one side or the other. My complaint is two editors, including you, say the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review can't be used as a ref because it is a right-leaning paper.  The other editor says the Inside Higher Ed is a right-leaning publication that is partisan and can't be used. That is ridiculous and I'm appalled that I even would ever hear that.  A Murdoch owned paper I could somewhat understand, Limbaugh I could understand, but Pittsburgh and Inside Higher Ed?  ANY source that may sound like right-winged is out on a history professor, that is isn't in right or left field, but playing his own game.  I find the Prof interesting and somewhat admire because most science profs I know wouldn't say anything to jeopardize their funding.
 * I have several uncles who are tea party aficionados. They refuse to talk to my parents or anyone in my family because we just happen to vote Democrat. I worked at the major University in the state and I had to hear at faculty meetings on deciding what graduate students to admit... He served a Mormon mission or he is a practicing baptist...  He is out because he is a right wing religious nut job. Oh it got worse, one Prof was bringing in a new female "student" from Vietnam every year.  Joys of tenure.
 * When I see bigotry to exclude refs, people or opinions, I will come out with the guns blazing. Bgwhite (talk) 05:58, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * But I noted a problem with the Pittsburgh article on the talk page--they're gimme questions, not journalism, and considering that it's on such a contentious matter editors have a right, even the responsibility, to weigh whether it can be used or not. That's not bigotry, and I don't accept (I can't speak for others) the article not because it's in a conservative paper, but because it's really a soapbox for the writer's opinions, who is fed by a clearly partial interviewer. Inside is, in my opinion, a fine source, though the article itself strikes me as a bit of an opinion piece; in fact, it's the only one from among those references that I personally accept. Drmies (talk) 13:38, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Bg, of course his views/writings etc. are controversial - to some. Wrong to others, and interesting to others, nasty to some, right on to others. Or silly? A heading for each? Guns a bit too big.Jacksoncowes (talk) 19:08, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Quack Quack
Quack... So cold... tulips... Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:01, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Crisco. Changed accordingly. Wish we could get the non-free duck on the front page; she's really cute. Drmies (talk) 14:21, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed, beautiful duck. You never know, some writers allow their covers under a CC license... Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:16, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW, did you see what I did to that Dutch musician's article? Trimmed.......................... 15:54, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, we are :)
Negative proof that ours is indeed a Latin culture. Interesting we are indeed, and Muller's view is painfully accurate, but I don't think even we can actually survive with molten lead in our mouths (now that's a torture!). Don't believe the hype :).

Happy trails, Dahn (talk) 16:25, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the lesson. You saw this, no doubt. Drmies (talk) 17:00, 9 May 2012 (UTC)


 * More self-mockery than a lesson in anything, but you're most welcome - not really the thing this culture should be proud of, but then again, as I'm sure you've noticed, some of wikipedia's worst trolls are Romanians. There is, alas, a culture of (verbal) violence behind that, and you're right to assume it has its fascinating aspects.
 * And yes, I had noticed, and I want to thank you for taking the trouble. Dahn (talk) 17:22, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If there's anything I myself find interesting in this incident is the quick creation of modern myths, to which the Iron Guard is especially prone. Consider: Calciu-Dumitreasa was still alive recently, and people could see him walking and talking; yet to create a testimonial about the physically improbable stuff, voiced just like standard Orthodox hagiography, seems to always be around the corner when the subject was (or was presumed to be) an Orthodox nationalist. I think readers in the non-Orthodox world would find this a very exotic picture, and even this bit helps illustrate the point that Romania is neither fully medieval, nor fully modern. Maybe this helps "round up" Muller's painful-to-read story - the Securitate that made her life hell was, in many ways, a new Iron Guard. Dahn (talk) 17:28, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm going to keep that in mind. Part of the assignment for students will be to investigate and report on the historical and other circumstances of the novels we're reading--much of this subject matter is completely foreign to US students, and I myself am no expert on Romania, though I did spent an agreeable two-hour flight with a drop-dead gorgeous Romanian medievalist who had been a child under Ceausescu. For grad students I will suggest that they improve the wiki article on a novel from the list, though for this one that will be difficult seeing how impeccably it's written and researched. ;) Drmies (talk) 17:37, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, that is a beautiful GA. I don't know what to recommend as a worthy introduction that wouldn't be too topical or not in Romanian. Perhaps Lucian Boia's History and Myth? I know Anglophones who were enlightened by that book, but much of it is off-topic as far as Muller's book is concerned. Dahn (talk) 18:45, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Coincidentally, I have just finished expanding an article (that's currently linked on the mainpage), which you may find entertaining as, well, a gangster story. A bit of the collective trauma that I think still motivates Romanians to act out - the violence, the (self-)deceit, the xenophobia, the paranoia... Some of this stuff was entirely new to me as well, while I was researching the article. I'm not saying this to blow my own horn; but I would be honored if you were to browse through and tell me your opinion, only if you have the time. I always enjoy getting competent feedback. Dahn (talk) 19:00, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look tonight, Dahn. Thanks. Hey, say what you will about Romanians, but they have some cool names. Do you know I'm a long-time fan of Hagi? I've always liked the enfant terrible, I guess. Drmies (talk) 22:29, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, I'm touched that you found it interesting! And yes, Biruitorul is the original culprit, on that and so many other articles I hijacked (not least of all: he perused all the boring, routine, sources on Drăghici's up-front career, leaving me with only the juiciest tidbits...).

Can I also ask you this: is it okay if I transclude the barnstar to my wall of "goodies", but without the last sentence? I loved the joke, but without the background story, and given the intellectual level of some trolls who follow me around, or the speculative militant mindset on Wikipedia Review, I think it's best not to invite in complications. But I will hold on to the full comment in my archives, and in that bit of my brain that handles retrospective chuckling. Dahn (talk) 07:38, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Ah, Hagi... Those were the days. Dahn (talk) 07:40, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * And wouldn't you know it. Dahn (talk) 13:09, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Two issues
1. Thank you for rollback! Much appreciated. As requested, I am not going nuts. 2. I have a specific issue with anon IP editing to the Sylosis article. As usual it is genre warring. Band is sourced as a number of specific genres in reliable sources, but a number of anon IPs seem to want to draw me into a slow-motion edit war. Obviously, I am unprepared to do this, so your input would be welcomed; a general revert to sourced content and semi-protection strikes me as appropriate, but that is an admin decision to make. Cheers in advance, 20:37, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ..."Cheers"--so, this is Baz? Remember to sign, Baz, or I'll roll you back. Sylosis--who comes up with these names? Is there a java generator for that? I've given the latest IP a final warning and have reverted their non-MOS compliant edits (if you're going to war over genres, at least get the capitals right). Let's see what happens in the next few days: if the same IP reverts again, report them at AIV and/or drop me a line. I don't mind protecting over this, but maybe it won't be necessary. Take it easy, Drmies (talk) 22:21+a few minutes, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Drmies, if you are going to go with the tough guy approach, at least use something like "your mom goes to college", that is way more effective. --kelapstick(bainuu) 22:26, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Baz, meet Kelapstick--he's obviously Canadian. You weren't logged into Skype this morning; I had a moment and was going to yell at you. Drmies (talk) 22:27, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * My morning or your morning? I'm on site right now so my mornings involve 5:00 breakfasts...--kelapstick(bainuu) 22:32, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What tenement are you working on these days? Made your way to Batu Hijau yet? <sup style="color:green;">Bongo  <sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex; color:blue;">matic  00:26, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Still in Western Australia, and I haven't made it to Batu Hijau yet. Strangely I have been missing Mongolia, not the food, or the weather, or being away for eight weeks, just the place itself.  It sort of grows on you, but then again, so do the measles.  By the way Doc, what did you have to yell at me about, what did I mess up now?  And is there a way to filtre the new page patrol to remove footballers?  And why are there so many footballer pages?--kelapstick(bainuu) 00:32, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I learned recently that Arena football players are notable. And I just felt a baby's head. Drmies (talk) 01:58, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hopefully not simultaneously. --kelapstick(bainuu) 02:06, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I would have thought that genre warring isn't eligible to be roll'd back as it's technically not vandalism? I might be wrong.... Mr Little Irish  (talk) © 14:10, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It can certainly be disruptive and is usually unverified--we have Twinkled templates for unverified contributions, and not too long ago I noticed Template:Uw-genre1 among the set of vandalism warnings. Drmies (talk) 18:07, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW, this genre-warring thing isn't easy anyway. Often genres in infoboxes are unverified, and there's something hypocritical about reverting changes that are also unverified. (The same applies to height for footballers and other relative trivial and often unverified info.) Still, two wrongs don't make a right: if whatever was there is changed, without explanation and without reference (or based on OR), that's disruptive, IMO. In general, I treat it as vandalism but on a slower scale of progression, if that makes sense--with more warnings and explanations than "regular" vandalism. Drmies (talk) 14:50, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Remember this?
Drmies, that horrid Georgian Orthodox Church thing has reared its head again. Although this time Argekhan appears to be silent, which is unusual seeing as he was an active discusser last time around. Anyhow, it seems it isn't the paragraph that is being disputed afterall, but what is in the infobox on the article. Things have got a little heated between a couple of users, and I have reminded them (and at time brutal reminders) that they need to remain civil as possible, to avoid launching sarcastic/personal attacks at each other. But now I'm getting a serious headache from it all. I think its time to escalate the case further, but not sure if WP:DR or WP:MedCab would be best. Part of me says DR, although the complexity of this issue points me towards MedCab. Suggestions? Wesley ☀  Mouse  21:42, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know. Maybe some kind of mediation would work. At the same time, there is a dispute, sure enough. But what is needed is more sources. You could, of course, just let it be... Hey, that SPI accusation, that was not good. I suppose you struck it yourself, later, but that was uncalled for. Anyway, that user seems to be level-headed; if they only had a big library on the topic. Seriously, I don't know what to tell you, but not every problem is solvable. Good luck, and thanks for trying, Drmies (talk) 23:32, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I put my hand up on the SPI thing, and I did indeed strike it out afterwards. The only reason I though it was SPI at first was the way two editors where bickering, and my advice being dissed on where to be going with the issue next (in order to drag myself out of the dispute).  Then from out-the-blue a new user came along and sent off alarm bells ringing.  More so when they said "I watched for a while", only to discover they had created an account in minutes - easy suspicion to set off with anyone.  But I did seek advice, and struck out the accusation - which reminds me, I need to send an apologetic wikilove to that user for the incident.  Anyhow, my suggestion of DR or MedCab went down well with everyone.  And wait for it (hold onto something quick as you may faint at this point) everyone has agreed to escalate further - talk about win-win situation.  They can now go off to DR or wherever and deal with it, and I can finally draw closure on something I wish I was never asked to assist with.  Today has been an absolute nightmare Drmies, dealing with this, another case at Cute (Japanese band), and organising travel to London in 4 weeks time :-(  I'll gladly accept any spare wikihugs right at this moment in time.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  23:44, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So ordered: (WM) Drmies (talk) 00:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Erm is a comment like "Wes, unlike you, I'm not racing my way along the fast lane to administrator status" from another user allowable? Wesley ☀  Mouse  00:59, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure. It's not nice, but it's not illegal... Drmies (talk) 01:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * sigh I've partially took it as a compliment now, but have asked the user to retract the personalized comment nevertheless. Although I think I may have become victim to Wikihounding now from the same user.  Will monitor it, and keep a record just in case.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  01:35, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but the thing is, it doesn't come close to NPA, and our edits here are public so anyone can look at anything, and if one has a problem with a user it can be quite legitimate to figure out what's going on. Charging someone with hounding is easily done, but it's difficult to prove. I don't think anyone is out to get you. Later, Drmies (talk) 01:43, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Erm, my initial thoughts of stalking/hounding may be true, but not particularly with myself being the victim of it. It has been brought to my attention that there are clear signs of  actually stalking .  And looking at the evidence, it does appear that the report could be very true.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  11:41, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry to be a pain. But something needs to be done asap, before there is bloodshed.  There are now more battleground-type comments coming from one user who has received several warnings in the past over similar actions.  I'm being thrown accusations about "trying to enhance my admin-status" again.  Even biting of a new user (which yes, I hold my hand up I did accuse Krosenstern of sock-puppetry - but have since posted a letter of apology, and it has been accepted).  This situation is literally scaring the crap out of me and turning me into a nervous wreck.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  18:41, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Drmies, could you explain to Wesley that his attempt to open a mediation case on a narrow issue (the interpretation of the Goergain Church's independence) does not give him the right to freeze the entire article and revert new edits made to it to in sections that are unconnected to the issue detailed in the mediation request. The article is not under any protection. Also, please tell him that to accuse an editor of sockpuppetry just because they forgot to sign in is showing considerable bad faith. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 18:56, 10 May 2012 (UTC)


 * And you have the audacity Meowy, to say you are not stalking editors? This just proves you are wikihounding, as you obviously had to check my edit history to even know I had just posted a comment on here.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  19:06, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wesley, Meowy following you here is not enough to warrant a claim of wikihounding. I haven't followed either one of you around, but I don't see that there is an intent to disrupt or harass. Tracking an editor, in this case on a matter both are involved in, is perfectly legitimate. I also haven't looked at the current state of the article, but Meowy is correct that mediation, as far as I know anyway, does not give anyone the right to freeze the article, especially not in unrelated sections. Meowy, I don't know what accusation of puppetry you're talking about; if it's the same as the one Wesley addressed earlier, then that's water under the bridge--but are you talking about an IP edit? I guess I have to look at the article. Hold on.
 * Sorry Drmies, but when he clearly follows me here when he's had no previous interactions with yourself, and then does the same on a different page - it is clear sign of stalking. Not only that, there have been a string of edits from Special:Contributions/93.97.143.19 including the contested paragraph which people agreed not to remove until a resolution had been found.  Meowy has just admitted the same IP is in fact him.  And he has just received a 3RR warning for his actions and also going against WP:ARBAA2 notices placed on him.  The facts speak for themselves.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  20:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No, that is not yet stalking--it is tracking. Meowy has, as far as I'm concerned, the right to come here to this semi-public space and comment on issues that involve themselves. A charge of hounding needs to establish intent to harass, and that's usually easily proven by an editor following another to a page they had nothing to do with--not just a page they hadn't edited before. The same applies to EdJohnston's page. This is something you should know you can expect. Meowy has a lot to do with this page because you're here, and I don't think a single admin would confirm this is hounding. Again, I haven't checked all y'all's edits and I have no intent of doing so, but on the face of it, it is not a valid charge. Another matter--I've been trying to read Sockpuppet investigations/Meowy/Archive. It's odd: the page is full of charges but relatively empty of blocks. Now, Meowy has a past (I was not aware of this; I'd never run into them, I don't think), but the ban is over, and since Meowy is not currently blocked the IP is not, technically, a sock. If an IP is used to avoid scrutiny in edit-warring that's another matter, but since Meowy makes no secret of the IP, and users can get logged out, I don't see the illegality of it. And I'm not about to also look at the 3R report. One more thing. Wesley, wikistress is a good reason to take a step back and do other things, either in the garden or in another corner of the project. Please, it's not productive. Drmies (talk) 20:13, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * According to Ed's warning, the IP has been blocked three times before for block evasion - coincidently enough those blocks also coincide with periods when Meowy was also blocked. If I am to work in a different corner of the project for a while, then I could do with some assurance that Meowy will temporarily cease any form of interactions with myself, until the DR takes place.  I shall also do the same.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  20:23, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that was in the past, in 2009 and 2011. Ed's warning is clear enough: the IP and Meowy are regarded as the same, and Meowy confirms it--so there is no socking. Leave the matter be, if just for your own sake. You started that mediation thing, I don't know if you can or want to withdraw from it. (What "DR"? the mediation?) But I am pretty sure Meowy won't follow you to other areas--isn't that so, Meowy? Drmies (talk) 20:31, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not following him to that article's mediation. Nor do any of Wesleymouse's usual article editing fields interest me - so I won't follow him anywhere else. Do you have an opinion of Wesley's attempt to freeze the entire article and revert new edits made to it to in sections that are unconnected to the issues to be detailed in the proposed mediation request.<span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 20:41, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes I do; you can read it above. Drmies (talk) 20:45, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry - I missed it. Thanks, and apologies again for missing it. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 20:50, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And I will consider your advice about participating in the article's mediation. <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 22:28, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, don't let me twist your arm. I've never been involved in a mediation and I don't know what the best- and worst-case scenarios are. And now that I'm an admin I don't have to be cooperative: I can just lay down the law and block whoever disagrees, or make up some phony civility charge. Joke, of course. Seriously, do what you think will move the article forward without impeding discussion on that one matter, preferably. You have announced some boldness, and that's fine with me--perhaps what you dig up for other sections may in the end help the disputed one. Drmies (talk) 23:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What "DR"? the mediation? - yes I meant the mediation, the brain was saying "mediation" but my fingers typed DR at the time. One other thing, can Meowy drop this "I accuse Krosenstern as a sock" thing.  I am fully aware of the hasty accusation last night, and I quickly retracted the accusation and posted an apology, which has been accepted.  So why is Meowy still bragging on about it like I'm still accusing Kros of being a sock?  And also saying the term "mate" and "friend" is insincere.  He knows I'm from the UK, and that Brits use those words in a sincerity context - that has been pointed out to him once before.  Anyhow, I'm going to watch a DVD (not sure which one yet) to chill out, and munch on comfort food.  Night-night y'all; and thank you for being reasonable and understanding with this issue Drmies.  P.S.  As for that WP:PREFER thing, a similar issue as this happened once before at a different article, and I was told (by an admin nonetheless) that while there is a mediation/DR case on-going that the disputed section wasn't allowed to be touched, and had to remain "frozen" per WP:PREFER.  If that is the incorrect procedure, then why was I told differently?   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  20:48, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Crossing text out doesn't mean the initial accusation didn't happen, it doesn't take back time you know! Your over-easy use of the word "sockpuppet" is the whole reason why I am mentioning it. Your posting of WP:PREFER as an edit reason was also over east when a quick read of what it linked to shows it applies just to protected articles. Ironic, isn't it that I actually visited and read the link you posted, but you hadn't! If insincerity was not meant, even so you need to stop calling people you don't know "mate" and "friend". They are liable to misinterpetation - and I also live in Britain. "Friend" is maybe not as bad, but "mate" is almost always meant to be either flippant or insincere unless directed at an actual "mate"! <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 20:56, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

In Northern parts Britain (mainly dialects) mate is also used as friend, whether it be to a person you know or not. If I was told PREFER was for a specific reason by a member of admin, then I trust what s/he informs me - especially when I was told about it within the first weeks of joining Wikipedia. Striking out accusations are an act of good faith and civility, and something which I've been told is preferable, rather than leaving the comment there unstruck. And what happened to the interaction cessation? I answered now, as you clearly wanted an answer, and I didn't want you to think I was being ignorant. Wesley ☀  Mouse  21:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, let this be enough for now. Wesley, I don't see how an interaction cessation should mean no discussion here if it's ongoing. Meowy is not going to edit articles you're working that they normally wouldn't edit or have edited, and is not going to engage you about such articles; I think that's what the tacit agreement was. Meowy isn't hounding you and won't. "Mate" can certainly be taken as a flippant word, depending on context. If you all can keep it neutral, that would be ever so nice, to put it limey-style for you two Brits. PREFER doesn't say anything about articles under mediation, and if it did, the mediation isn't accepted yet. Meowy is perfectly in their right to edit the article though they would be wise to exercise caution and work around the areas of contention--I have not heard that they have strayed into those areas, so that's fine. Wesley, I don't know what some admin told you in which context and it doesn't matter, as far as I'm concerned. If some smarter admin knows better I gladly stand corrected, but I think Meowy has enough common sense to avoid controversy here. PREFER does mean that if edit-warring is taking place I might protect the article (fully), and I'll take whichever one happens to be up. Can we move on?

Comment from an outside observer whose only connection to this whole thing is reading this thread: A whole lot more AGF needs to be going on. Accusations of wikihounding and wikistalking tend not to be helpful - they certainly do not reduce tensions - and should only happen when a person has been followed around to a bunch of pages, which is not what has apparently happened here. Requesting mediation on a topic does not disallow editing on an article, and especially not on parts of the article unrelated to the mediation. Mediation, by the way, is a form of DR; acting as if it's not is silly. Lady of  Shalott  01:48, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * With personal attacking edit summaries like this one from Meowy, can you seriously wonder why I just feel like smashing a fist through a brick wall?  Wesley  ☀  Mouse  19:30, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * First wesleymouse reverts my edit to the GOC article using an invalid reason (claiming that he has the right to freeze the whole article - but, as Drmies explained to him, he had no such right). Then he launches into a laughable sockpuppet allegation because I edited when signed out (something, as Drmies explained to him, that is not "sockpuppetry"). Then in the sockpuppet investigation (which he encouraged new user Krosenstern to initiate) he accused me of lying, saying (incorrectly) that it was not possible for sign-ins to time out, and claiming I was "stalking" him. Then, when it is becomes clear how invalid the SP investigation is, he makes an apologetic talk page post with "sorry if I came across as hasty with you". That shouldhave been the end of it. However, in the very next post he starts making insinuations to another editor that I should not be there, that I should be blocked - a posting which shocked that editor into saying that wesleymouse was not being helpful. When I asked wesleymouse why he had made that post with that insinuation he simply replied sarcastically "Sorry, did you say something then Meowy? I didn't quite understand the jargon used. It must be my misinterpretation skills, or my lack of literacy skills". At about the same time, in a different section of the GOC talk page, another editor, Aregakn, said of wesleymouse "it appears to me your participation is counter-productive here". Who can honestly disagree with Aregakn's assessment?   <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy  19:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And wesleymouse has just edited the GOC talk page postings to remove all his more offensive comments and reformatted the remaining postings so that it now appears that the editor giving the "you are not being helpful" comment was addressing me rather than wesleymouse! <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS, verdana, sans serif; color:#0088BB;">Meowy 20:12, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Er hello! Doing an act of good faith is no longer accepted is it? Susuman77 suggested that I remove any comments that may be aimed at users and distracting away from the main dispute - that I have adhered to, which is only fair in the name of peace.  It would be appreciated if you did the same, and get back to cooperative works with the people involved.  BUt when you start wording edit summaries like this one and this one, you're not exactly doing yourself any favours.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  20:16, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi! I'm trying to mediate between Wesley and Meowy. Wesley removed his comment adressed at Meowy in a gesture of good will, and I've now asked Meowy to do the same. Both of you had the opportunity to air your grievances to an admin, now let get over it. This personal conflict is pointless and has less and less relevance to the talk page it is happening on. I think that if both can just agree to stop quarreling with each other and drop those issues, that would hopefully be the end of it. Let's not escalate this further when there's opportunity to all calm down.--Susuman77 (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * To inform anyone who is concerned, I've just come off the phone to some bad news. My mother has passed away, so please bear with me if I don't reply back rapidly, or if I end up sounding myself distracted.  Sorry!  Wesley  ☀  Mouse  20:40, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry to hear that Wesley. All the best to you. Drmies (talk) 20:44, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks my friend. I'm a shacking wreck now, and in a state of why!? confused!? I got my user page is semi-protected due to IP vandalism which is to expire on June 1, and I was going to monitor it myself after that date, but due to this sudden news, would it be possible to extend it for a couple of weeks, just in case I don't get time to focus properly? Wesley ☀  Mouse  20:48, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry to hear of your loss, Wesley. Go take care of yourself and your family. Don't worry about Wikipedia. (Your page will be protected/ have protections extended if need-be.) Lady  of  Shalott  20:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Needless fork of Fanny Crosby?
Remember Fanny Crosby? I occasionally summon the will to revisit and do a little more pruning etc. We now have a fork - Early life of Fanny Crosby - and I am not entirely convinced that it is justified. I'd appreciate your opinion and that of LoS, whom I know stalks this page. - Sitush (talk) 23:08, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!</BIG>
 * Oh my gosh, seriously? Can I just say "ditto" the above response? I mean, come on, someone's pulling our legs, right? Lady  of  Shalott  02:12, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You know, I thought so, too....but then I looked, and this is not the only "Early life of..." article. Just do a search for "Early life of..." and you'll see what turns up. Now, of course, WP:OSE. But is the concept inherently flawed? In this case, the article probably isn't warranted, because we're not a biography site--we're an encyclopedia, and that, by definition, means very broad coverage with only critical detalis. The question is, how do you fix the problem? A merge will end up screwing you, because the splitter might actually try to, you know, merge the contents, and the main article certainly does not need it. You could AfD, and argue that there is no specific coverage of the "Early life of Fanny Crosby" (assuming that no one wrote such a book/journal article, right?)...but my intuition tells me such a nom could be derailed by those of a more inclusionary mindset than myself. Maybe the easiest would just be to boldly change the article to a redirect, then force the discussion on the talk page via WP:DR. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:36, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Look at Death of Stevie Ray Vaughan--not a bad article at first glance, but completely needless, and I AfD'ed it, where the argument was that the article would be too big if it got merged. Yes, too big, because the whole stupid thing is a play-by-play of a helicopter flight and could be summarized in three sentences. But once some joker gets it into their head that such detail is necessary, and it's verified (of course), there seems to be no stopping it. And to think that we already cut Fanny in half, and she's still over 130k. Drmies (talk) 04:25, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Eh, Qwyrxian, you were saying? Drmies (talk) 04:28, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It had been A10'd last July, per this. - Sitush (talk) 09:30, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Fine solution by me. It's on my watchlist in case 000peter reverts. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:24, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Fanny's an interesting woman, no doubt about it. However, that article - now that group of articles - is highly excessive. It appears that there's an entrenched group of editors who really wnt that level of detail about her though. I don't know. It seems ridiculous to me on one hand. On the other, WP is WP:NOTPAPER. I suppose we could do something to get wider discussion - either an RfC about the early life article's existence, or maybe a peer review...? Lady of  Shalott  14:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Need an Admin Close
Would you mind closing this? The page is clearly notable under WP:BROADCAST and consensus, the !vote is 5 to 2 against it being deleted/merged. User:Spshu is just beating a dead horse at this point and after this post (top response) I honestly can't say we are dealing with someone who is all there to begin with. Can you make heads or tails of that? - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 23:49, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅ Drmies (talk) 00:01, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Sir. Much appreciated. :) - <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer  •  Talk  • 00:02, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

YGM
- <small style="white-space:nowrap;border:1px solid #900;padding:1px;"> Neutralhomer •  Talk  • 18:35, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. Drmies (talk) 18:37, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Kurt Carley
I had to decline here, per WP:BLPPROD, but I have no objection if you want to take this to AfD. Current "consensus" is that even a self-published web site is enough to preclude BLPPROD placement. The requirements for removal are, oddly, a bit different. Confusing, yes, but it's what I've got to work with. Best, --joe deckertalk to me 18:50, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note, Joe. I thought current consensus was that "a" website, or even IMDB, was NOT enough. Drmies (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Gianna Jessen
I noticed striking similarities between the edits of 50.41.176.130 and 50.41.176.130, but I've been wrong about socks before. Would you agree?Newmanoconnor (talk) 01:54, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 50.41.141.94, no doubt. I'm sure they're the same person, but it's not socking until it's done to disrupt or avoid scrutiny. For now, it's just IP hopping. But now they're edit-warring, and I'll leave them a warning: once more and it's a block. Drmies (talk) 02:02, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks
I just want to say thank you for leaving me some feedback :) It means alot. Mr Little Irish  (talk) 申 09:57, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. I appreciate the work you're doing around here. Drmies (talk) 14:46, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Re: Kronos
Hey there, thanks for the invite :D Sadly, it's all so far away! But I can promise to report about the Hariprasad Chaurasia concert I'm going to in June when he comes to Berlin. All the best Hekerui (talk) 17:25, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Same here--too far away. I'll be in Amsterdam but not in May... Man, I hope to see them before I die. Watching YouTube videos just isn't the same. Drmies (talk) 18:02, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Blood types!?
In a band article!? Seriously? I don't even know what to say to that. Lady of  Shalott  17:30, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * My thoughts exactly, when I first noticed the blood type thing. Pretty sure that is going into way too much sensitive data, and without physically verifying medical records, we'd only be taking a "website's" word for it.  Saying that though, there is nothing on any Wiki-guide pages that stipulates not to include blood types (although common-sense would indicate not to include them).  Perhaps its time to update a policy somewhere to show a person's blood type shouldn't be included on BLP articles.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  17:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not on the up-and-up about Japanese culture at all, but I think I've read somewhere that blood types in Japan are seen as indicative of personality traits, or some such thing; kinda like saying someone is an alpha personality vs. a beta personality. So, while weird in itself, it's not a total stretch to have them in an article about a Japanese "celebrity." EDIT: Yup, here we go. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 18:48, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I read on Blood types in Japanese culture that they use blood types, like the Western world uses astrology. And with female Japanese, they use it to match up compatibility when looking for relationships.  Based on the latter, then would it not be turning Wikipedia into a private dating agency for the band members?  And if we used the former, then we're not exactly their personal horoscopes either.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  19:03, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Not saying that they should be there, just that there is some sort of reason that they were put there. I can see that sort of thing being promoted by the band and/or their sponsors; kinda like how people used to categorize the members of boy bands as like "the cheerful one" or "the brooding one" or whatever.  Not encyclopedic, but at least it wasn't totally out of left field. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 19:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * [ec: point well taken, Writ Keeper: thank you.] We are indeed not a site for horoscopes and other stuff. In the US, it really matters to a guy how long his schlong is, but we don't start listing that. If I were a pop star and I had a page on the record company's website, I'd make damn sure mine was listed as the size of a Geo Metro. No images please. Drmies (talk) 19:11, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, I knew I was missing something on my userpage! Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 19:13, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't tell User:Badmachine that I've been flaunting my imagined hardware. Drmies (talk) 19:19, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * So a racist pseudoscience concept has entered the public conciousness and is promoted by women's magazines and celebrities. Great. It is interesting to learn why people might want to include that information in an article, and I'm glad to have read the article about the idea. As others have said though, it's still not something that belongs in an encyclopedia. I haven't yet figured out the official color business though. Lady  of  Shalott  19:29, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Are you being sarcastic, Lady? That's not becoming. BTW, did you see the note about how the colors were approximations? In K-Pop articles (official) fan clubs have official colors. Drmies (talk) 19:34, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I can understand showing colors on an article for the Power Rangers, as they are in their respective colors (eeek I feel sad now admitting I know about the Power Rangers) - but on a band? Are these "Cute" girls the New Age Power Rangers on a Dating Mission? Wesley ☀  Mouse  19:36, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * But that's exactly what they do!!! Look. There are colours or numbers in most idol groups. I must say, Cute doesn't always do it, but it's still very important. I think I'll have to write an article about that. Watch a video of another idol group, by the way. Recommended. :) Moscowconnection (talk) 20:09, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Blood types are an idol thing. In the Japanese pop culture, it is said that a person's blood type tells something about their personality. As I said, I didn't want to insist cause it was actually overdoing it, but you can see yourselves that the blood types are listed in the band's profile. (Edit: I've just noticed that Wesley Mouse already found an article about it.) Moscowconnection (talk) 20:09, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I plan to create a new article about all that, to explain colours and graduations and elections, and leadership, and everything. Then we'll talk. I don't really like long discussions, I prefer to write an article and then I'll invite you there. Okay? :) Then, I won't be only helping Cute (Japanese band), but all the other groups too. Moscowconnection (talk) 20:09, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure--but that doesn't mean it automatically goes into a member box/list/table. It will depend on verification and applicability, and possibly it is a thing for the text. Moscow, for such a girl-J-Pop junkie, you have some excellent ideas. I think you're crazy, but go right ahead. Drmies (talk) 00:42, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

I made a thread for discussing member colors here: Talk:Cute (Japanese band) Moscowconnection (talk) 00:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Witch house (music genre)
=S Drmies (talk), if you read my response to his complaint you'd know that he posted that after I filed an incident report against him. Would you like to see the report? Baku Shad-do (talk) 18:32, 11 May 2012 (UTC

How do I go about getting that protection for the page that you spoke of? Baku Shad-do (talk) 18:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw the report. It's meritless, as far as I'm concerned: you are both guilty of edit-warring, and you started by reverting the IP, if that matters at all. You're not going to "get" protection for that page: this is a simple dispute between the two of you that has now spilled into two noticeboards. The next one reverting will probably be blocked temporarily. Word to the wise: stay away from the article. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 18:50, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Add a a task force to the forum shopping list . Ridernyc (talk) 00:48, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Supreme Dicks
Hi Drmies; it's 99, in new clothing. Could you have a look at this article, and my reversions? Someone's having fun with it over the long term, and it's mostly unacceptable tripe, methinks. Lovely band name. Cheers, 198.228.226.241 (talk) 19:11, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * How timely, given the thread above, "Blood types!?" Don't look at that image--it's not really me anyway. I'll have a look, if you can have a look at Alexandru Drăghici; I promised an editor, above, that I would duly appreciate it, but with your constant interruptions I can't get any work done here at all. *Sigh* Oh, and the best I in the fridge right now is Abita Strawberry Lager--I hope the 4.5% ABV is not too low for you. Oh! I went and bought a bottle of Glenmorangie; at $40 it was relatively cheap, though a bit more than I could afford (I accept PayPal). It's delicious... Drmies (talk) 19:17, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm useless until later, actually working from my IPhone now. And you're tossing around alcoholic esoterica that's way over my head. Enjoy! 198.228.226.241 (talk) 19:25, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, "uncharted no-Dick's land" is kind of funny, though I don't appreciate the punctuation. Did you ever see J. Mascis play? As usual, you're right, by the way. If I semi-protect it, though, I'd block you from cleaning it up as well. I left the IP a note as well. Happy days, Drmies (talk) 19:28, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed--it would be a premature Dick block. The trouble with the humor is it's freshman college variety, and pleased with itself. Dick jokes, as I just proved, are a dime a sackful. Eh, nuts to this. 198.228.226.241 (talk) 20:04, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Duck, Death and the Tulip
Carabinieri (talk) 00:05, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Abusive usernames
Next time when blocking, note that that username you blocked is eligible for suppression. --Bsadowski1 03:02, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I figured there was something going on. But why are you telling me this? (I don't think I ever ran into you before, and I blocked on sight, immediately--then I saw it was LTV.) Drmies (talk) 03:14, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Your changes to Zouk-Lambada are not OK
Please revert your cuts to the Zouk-Lambada page. They are not justified, and you actually removed a lot of useful information for anybody seeking to learn about this dance style. For example Neo-Zouk and SoulZouk are real, they should be documented. And why are you removing the names of famous teachers and dancers? They created and spread this dance around the world, that should be documented too. And what's your explanation about removing "promotional information"? Do you go on removing a list of songs in an article about a music album, or the list of episodes in an article about a TV series? That's way more promotional than what you just removed. Also how do you remove External links saying that 20 links are "pure linkspam"? Just like that, you instantly determined that 20 links all at once as being spam? Care to do some research instead of being heavy handed??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ValentinDanci (talk • contribs) 05:51, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This is an encyclopedia, not a collection of advertisements. "Famous teachers and dancers"--bullshit. Come with some reliable sources first. Drmies (talk) 14:12, 12 May 2012 (UTC)


 * - To Mr. admin with the nickname "Drmies": first of all you are insulting my name on my talk page by saying "Your edits make it obvious that you have a personal interest in that article (...) Your user name makes it obvious as well". That name, Valentin Danci is my real name. It's sad that Wikipedia gave you the power to insult people like that. You're accusing me of having a personal interest in that article while the article was edited by tens of people before me in the same purpose and manner. I just gave more information that VERIFY my statements in that article, and please note that I didn't put a Facebook link in the article itself - I put it in the reason-of-edit notes, for anybody who wants to know why I made the edit. The only verifiable sources about Zouk-Lambada on the Internet are the websites of those who do Zouk-Lambada, in the same manner that the only verifiable sources about software applications are the websites of their creators, commercial or not. And again, Wikipedia is a collection of links to everything, whether you admit it or not. But I guess it's easier for you to delete a few links to some dancers' websites than to delete thousands of advertisements in and out of IBM's Wikipedia page. Looks like Wikipedia is so fair to everybody :-( And last but not least, you are not respecting one of the Wikipedia principles: "Respect and be polite to your fellow Wikipedians, even when you disagree.". Your saying "-bullshit. Come with some reliable sources first" is not a polite welcome to anyone new here. I hope other admins with better manners see your activity too. ValentinDanci (talk) 15:03, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If that insults you then I should probably not say anything to you anymore; bidding you good-day might hurt your feelings. It's obvious that you are using the page to promote your business. It is also obvious that Wikipedia is not a collection of links to everything. It is an encyclopedia whose information should be based on reliable sources. You are confusing us with Google or the Yellow Pages. Please don't add promotional information to that article. Also, don't yell at me on my talk page (when you clearly don't know what Wikipedia is) and then expect me to roll out the red carpet. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 15:37, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * One more thing: these edits were not vandalism--they were no more unproductive than yours. Drmies (talk) 15:56, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia.". In that case it was about the removal of the word (founder) between my name and the name "Toronto Zouk", both names and that info being verifiable information. And Wikipedia means verifiable information. I don't care about my link being posted next to my name, but my name and that info as well as others' are part of the history of Zouk-Lambada around the world. You should respect that and preserve it as part of the culture, not remove it completely. But you go ahead and remove whatever you want, I consider overall what you did on that article an abuse of power and making your own rules. ValentinDanci (talk) 23:20, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And what you're doing is using WP as a promotional tool. Think of me what you will; I couldn't care less. Drmies (talk) 23:42, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You are using WP as a promotional tool much more than I do: you just mentioned on your page that you ordered this album: Boys & Girls. If you were true to your own rules, as a Wikipedia admin you should've deleted that article instead of promoting it. It has tons of links to iTunes, Amazon and other commercial entities. So that's Wikipedia: free advertising for whatever the admins like. ValentinDanci (talk) 01:13, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that whenever he links to an article, he must delete it? → Σ  τ  c . 01:19, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sigma, you should be an admin too. There's money in it. Drmies (talk) 01:28, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm, getting paid to add random links to one's talk page... And to think getting paid to write a FA was frowned upon! → Σ  τ  c . 06:38, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Evil cackle
Could this be my moment? I know that it will take some time to set up, and may never happen, but boy could I make use of it! - Sitush (talk) 10:09, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good luck with it! You know I'm always more than happy to help out. Sorry, I don't have an evil cackle today--I'm dumbfounded by the stupidity I just looked at: Articles for deletion/Mitt Romney Cranbrook incident. Drmies (talk) 14:14, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yikes, that looks bad. I am not a fan of scandal stuff being on WP at all, nor of political POV pushing. I may weigh in later, after I've had a look around. Re: assistance - WP:RX is darn useful but, yes, I do sometimes go for the personal request also. I didn't bother with the Highbeam thing because it has little real use to me. Highbeam rarely appears in relation to India stuff, but JSTOR access would be a massive boon. - Sitush (talk) 14:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Request
Hi Drmies, hate to bug you *somewhat* but could you check Oerip Soemohardjo to ensure my sources didn't misspell any of the Dutch words? Also, do you know of a good source for the number of Dutchmen in Java in the 1740s? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:51, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm on it, Crisco. Drmies (talk) 16:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That is excellent work. No, I don't have an answer for that. The bibliography of Chinezenmoord wasn't helpful? You can always email the Royal Tropical Institute... Drmies (talk) 18:00, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Drmies. I'll try emailing them. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:49, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I was sort of kidding, but I did email them last time and found them to be very friendly. What was dumb was that I couldn't send the organization a donation of ten bucks via PayPal. I love that institute and the building--did you see what I added to their article? Drmies (talk) 22:25, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

What about
this in light of the previous deletion discussions and the fact that few of the sources&mdash;and by my count at most one of the reliable sources&mdash;actually say anything about the subject? <sup style="color:green;">Bongo  <sub style="margin-left:-4.2ex; color:blue;">matic  14:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know, Bongo. It's an article on a TV reality show character--those are inherently notable, ahem. She is a real looker, though. Did you see it is a GA nominee? If you AfD it you have a hill to climb. Look, if mf-ing Seamus on Twitter is a valid topic (I meant Justin Bieber on Twitter, sorry), and if this nonsensical AfD is headed for a no-consensus, defaulting to keep, then you have little chance. There's hits for this person in GNews (she's getting married--stop the press) and that none of it amounts to anything is beside the point. Sorry, pal. Drmies (talk) 16:04, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:N is reasonable as a minimum requirement for articles. As a maximum though, it is clearly broken. Lady  of  Shalott  16:22, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Niteshift36 made an obvious point that's often forgotten, in that hippie-haircut discussion: that something is notable (and verified and all that) doesn't mean it should have its own article. But try to get that point across when there are so many editors writing crap like Occupy City X, Marlon Brando on Twitter, Drmies on Facebook, etc. You saw the J-Pop single selection. In the meantime, Category:Poetry by John Berryman doesn't even exist and Category:Poetry by Dylan Thomas has five members, mainly stubs and original research. Drmies (talk) 17:47, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Forget those, I'm waiting for someone to write LadyofShalott on Wikipedia. How about it, Drmies? Lady  of  Shalott  18:40, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually read the article yesterday. The article was deleted around 7 months ago via AfD.   Only reason I didn't do a CSD is because her new show, Tanisha Gets Married, just started.TV reality show characters are not inherently notable... been thru several AfD's of those fine folks.  I realize that Drmies religiously watches Dance Moms and whatever that kid beauty contest show is called.  So, Drmies is kind of partial to highbrow tv. Bgwhite (talk) 19:34, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

cn templates cleared on Giulia Marletta page
Drmies! I just finished clearing Crisco's cn templates on the Giulia Marletta page. Please check them out. Shall we elevate the article quality to "C" at this point? Also, if I find a photo of Giulia Marletta talking to a director or a similar action shot, would that work as subject matter for a second image on the page? Doc2234 (talk) 17:35, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good Doc; nice work. I think a second picture would be fine--email me the ones not suitable for a PG audience. Maybe Crisco or someone else (dear Lady?) can look at the quality rating; I think it's certainly C, probably B. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:50, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Doc2234 (talk) 17:58, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not necessarily the best at assessments, but B does seem reasonable to me, and I've gone ahead and made the upgrade on the talk page. Lady  of  Shalott  18:41, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you Lady. I just ordered Boys & Girls! Drmies (talk) 19:04, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well enjoy it! I told you that none of the specific children's books you suggested to me were available in PINES. I did put several other books by Wolf Erlbruch on hold, and have gotten in The Big Question. Lady  of  Shalott  19:16, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * So, that meant, nothing in the entire state? Now I understand. That big isn't available anymore on Amazon; what a shame. Children's books have a tendency to disappear--I like this book, but all the books listed in the book of it were already out of print a few years after it came out. Update: puta few bids in on Marktplaats.nl. Now, somebody write Rindert Kromhout. Drmies (talk) 20:08, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, at least the parts of the state that participate in PINES, which is most of it, but not, for instance, several of the counties right around Atlanta. The Big Question is wonderful, and your old pals Duck and Death both make appearances: Death says, "You are here to love life." Duck doesn't "have the foggiest idea". He apparently wrote that one in French. Lady  of  Shalott  00:21, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, that sounds really cool. Drmies (talk) 00:35, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Drmies is a slacker
From B. Pandey, "Pandey has awarded thirty two Ph.D. degrees". How many do you have, one? Pfft. slacker. Bgwhite (talk) 19:20, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ha, awarded or "been awarded"? Either way--yes, in that respect I'm a slacker. And my paid-editing business is also not taking off: I'm still waiting on Keeley Electronics to send me one of their nice little machines as a reward for getting them on the front page. Drmies (talk) 19:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I read it as been awarded, but I'm running on 30 hours without sleep. Drugs, please arrive in the mail.  I thought Lady is paying to write the article about her?
 * Why are you not sleeping? As for my paying... umm... errr... well... Lady  of  Shalott  19:57, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia addicts aren't allowed to sleep. Electrical impulses are used if they try. As for paying, Lady, now that the cat is out of the bag, I want a raise. I'm tired of working for a pittance.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:03, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I couldn't sleep anyway, because my talk page kept buzzing. I had a nightmare last night involving Wikipedia editors, old ones with cool names, of the Modernist type. There were horses in it too, and everything went horribly wrong, and then I dropped this really big cheese and someone looked at me in an accusatory manner because apparently I took the entire thing, and I was supposed to take only a little piece. Terrible. Dutch shame. Drmies (talk) 20:15, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm an old American sitcom nut. Your post makes me think of Ted Knight, the buffoon announcer on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, who used to talk about his really weird dreams, and the episode of I Love Lucy where she brings a cheese back from Europe on the plane disguised as a baby.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:19, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Besides being a Wikipedia addict, I have severe insomnia. I can go 48-72 hours without sleep.  With drugs, I can get 4-6 hours of good sleep.  Lady was paying on how well one embellished her article.  Use the truth, the article is only 7-8 long paragraphs. Embellish and this price is in the thousands.  I tried writing one about Drmies, but the only sources about him I could find came from the National Enquirer.  Bgwhite (talk) 20:27, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've already sent Lady an invoice for fixing the inadvertent destruction of her Talk page. Naturally, she hasn't paid.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:47, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Bg, I hope you get some real sleep soon! Bbb, it must have gotten lost in the mail. Lady  of  Shalott  00:24, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks--but we all should thank you for writing such clean, interesting, and well-referenced articles in underdeveloped areas. You make my job easy. Drmies (talk) 23:48, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a nice article, Crisco. Drmies, are you aware that the phrase "touching up" has a deviant meaning, at least in the UK? And, apparently, you managed to "touch up" an entire population? Mind, in recent years, the obvious schoolboy contraction of my surname has also come to haunt me, as the US "tush" has infiltrated UK linguistics. I am now an ass, it would seem, although perhaps I always was. I blame crappy TV imports ... but there are some gems among them, eg: I am grateful for series such as The Wire and Homeland. - Sitush (talk) 00:03, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Drmies. Well, Sitush, "fix" can have negative meanings in the US. Think... "I'll fix you good". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:10, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll fix you good? Does that mean "sort you out", with physical violence? It sounds like it but is not one that I can recall seeing. "Fix" as in drugs or as in political machinations or rigged sports fixtures etc? Gosh, the wonders of language! - Sitush (talk) 00:17, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * When one speaks of fixing the dog or cat, said animal's ability to procreate is to be terminated. Lady  of  Shalott  00:26, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Judging from that old photo of yours, Sitush, touching you up is a two-man job. BTW, in linguistics classes "put out" is my standard example of an idiom. Drmies (talk) 00:34, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Then I certainly hope Drmies didn't "fix" the article... I like gold stars. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:35, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure they must enjoy that. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm. I was under the impression that you did not want that old photo mentioned again. Something to do with an inferiority complex? And, yes, "put out" is another one of the US expressions that I've never quite fully understood. I think that I get the gist ... but then I have doubts. LoS, yes, indeed: fixing an animal is used this side of the pond, or at least it is Oop North. I've eaten lambs' testicles on occasion, gently fried when out camping/hiking. They are really quite tasty, although I do have some qualms about the traditional harvesting methods. I hope that you lot are not eating as you read this! - Sitush (talk) 01:21, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Dinner turned out to be an abomination of nature and God's creation: turkey burgers (and yes, I made them). Give me one good reason for turkey burgers. Lamb balls...I don't know, Sitush. Mrs. Drmies said the other day that I'd eat anything, but I think she was bluffing. Drmies (talk) 01:26, 13 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Ugh, turkey burgers... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Reverted edit to River Thames Whale
I appreciate your explaining why you reverted my River Thames whale.

I was trying to be helpful, but I did have a suspicion that the content was not suited to the page. I tried finding alternatives, then settled for the best way I could figure. It was nice of you to provide a detailed explanation, so I can learn for next time.

I would just ask one thing. When you reverted the page, you described my edit as "totally uncalled for here". That sounds a bit harsh. If you revert similar (well-intentioned) edits in the future, I would encourage you to state something more like "extraneous information". It just sounds a little nicer :)

RunnerupNJ 16:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)