User talk:Drmies/Archive 4

Greenland
I wasn't sure exactly how to alter the page, but Greenland currently has to government structure. As of recently, their government has collapsed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.222.215.92 (talk) 04:56, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The one does not follow from the other. The cabinet falling does not mean there is not a government structure anymore. Drmies (talk) 05:02, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry
I didnt mean to reinstate the mistakes, i was trying to change something and it got all screwed up. i got his last name wrong. it's supposed to match Wahbi Al-Hariri. Sorry mate —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aiafan (talk • contribs) 17:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

An apology
Hello...Im sorry for doing that to Sade Adu, that was rude and insensitive. I should have known better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sade'sAMonkey (talk • contribs) 17:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, and that's why your username has been blocked. WP may not be as liberal as some claim it to be, but that sort of racist joke is unacceptable. Drmies (talk) 16:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Archiving
Wow, when it comes to archiving you "go big or go home" eh?kelapstick (talk) 02:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC) I read those, interisting. The little guy liked house hunting, and we found something. Fries I over oysters, the horror, but I think I would have made the same call at that age.kelapstick (talk) 02:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC) That's great, we got rid of ours when we moved to the US and haven't committed to a new set, it's only been a year...--kelapstick (talk) 02:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, welcome! Yeah, it was getting kind of crowded, so I figured it was time to clean up. How's the two-year old? The three-year old could have had oysters today but chose french fries... ;( Drmies (talk) 02:16, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, you found something? That's great--and I think I still have some steak knives laying around for a gift. Drmies (talk) 02:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not bad, CoM, but I think the Slap Chop is the ideal housewarming gift. Bongo  matic  02:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's official, that...is...awesome...We actually had one of those growing up, but it was that green colour that appliances were in the 70s. I don't know what they called it though, maybe a chopper.--kelapstick (talk) 02:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, how did I ever live without it? Was that Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam thrown in? Drmies (talk) 02:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
I'm so glad we've patched that up. Yeah, I do over-react at times, so it was probably my fault. Looking at your contributions you seem to be a devoted Wikipedian so I'll leave you to it. Peace! --Sky Attacker (talk) 03:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S The name "Legendary" Sky Attacker, is just to be a bit different to everyone else. As for the username, it is possibly misleading. I really do intend the best for Wikipedia, I'm not want to attack it or its users (or the sky, in case your wondering, lol) --Sky Attacker (talk) 03:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, sounds good. All the best, Drmies (talk) 03:46, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Reply
No worries. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 03:51, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Man, that was crazy. You know, there was an editor at AfD a while ago, a Brit, who had that picture on his user page, and the same anti-Bush slogan. He and I had some doings--it was someone who edited only one thing, articles related to some Scottish or English band, doing publicity without reliable sources and such. Drmies (talk) 03:54, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've protected your talk page for 24 hours; hope you don't mind. Regards, – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 04:00, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See Sockpuppet investigations/129.2.175.70, this looks bigger than you think. Momo san Gespräch 04:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Awww I thought I was special... Drmies (talk) 04:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Stick around here long enough and I guess everyone gets a whiff of someone's smelly socks. How juvenile. Lady of Shalott 04:24, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey! I resemble that remark! Drmies (talk) 04:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * But seriously, Lady, why can't they pick on, say, ChildofMidnight? Drmies (talk) 04:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no doubt his time will come - sooner or later. (See my comment above.) Lady of Shalott 04:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I just thought I'd let you know that your sockpuppeteer attacker appears to have been a group of vandals at a University. That explains the fast vandalising. --Sky Attacker (talk) 06:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I saw one of them came from Virgina Tech. Drmies (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your words


Drmies, Candlewicke has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Thank you very much for your kind comment at my DYK nomination. Much appreciated and it has cheered me up this morning! :) -- can  dle &bull; wicke  11:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! I think you did a great job, and I hope they devote half the main page to it. Drmies (talk) 15:43, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Deletion list
As a member of the Bilateral relations task force, you maybe interested in this new page: WikiProject International relations/Bilateral relations task force/Deletion Ikip (talk) 17:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks: holy f-- s---, that is a long list! Drmies (talk) 17:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

What's up with this IP?
Do you know what's going on with the IP user on the Revision history of Ben Templesmith? I saw that you reverted an edit he made on this page, so when he added the same content again I reverted it back to your revision the first time, and now he has put it back again. I'm bringing this to you so an edit war doesn't need to start. Should I just keep reverting him anyway or is the edit simply constructive? --Sky Attacker (talk) 20:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC) IP=68.205.229.142 --Sky Attacker (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've reverted (again). The problem is that the edit makes no sense grammatically, but worse, it is not based on anything that can be called a reliable source. In fact, it's not even clear what that source says. Thanks for notifying me, and let's keep at it. I should put a warning tag on the IP's page, though I might have done so already last time. Drmies (talk) 21:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Reply
Hi, the best way to notify an administrator of a vandal, is to report him at WP:AIV. Thanks for stopping by on my talk page. Until It Sleeps 20:36, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I know, but I had lunch waiting. ;) Drmies (talk) 21:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Why is this inappropriate?
"[SPK (band)|SPK]] was an early Industrial music band that helped shape the morbid, quasi journalistic aesthetic of the genre."

Graphic designers have subsequently used this aesthetic. It is seminal art, involving music as well as art, film, etc.. Achmedpurple (talk) 04:57, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Mainly, the edit is unreferenced. Answered in more detail on your talk page. Drmies (talk) 05:01, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll find some more refernces for it. I know it is a very sparse article, wish someone else would contribute. Achmedpurple (talk) 05:07, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you serious??
Sure, it sounds crazy. Look up autoimmune on wikipedia. Read what I "vandalized". Are you sure? All four bullet points were completely irrational. Calling them bullshit wasn't pretty. Was it wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.156.234.125 (talk) 05:25, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, what you added doesn't sound crazy--just unencyclopedic, insensitive, and nonsensical: you added, to a section heading, "The passive voice is frequently used by bullshitters." Yes, you just proved that in your passive sentence. Drmies (talk) 05:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you really think that my use of the passive voice was accidental? Why is it that so many wikipedians have aspergers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.156.234.221 (talk) 14:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I didn't expect my edits to stick. I also didn't know how to properly go about deleting that false and misleading information. I was hoping that the admin who noticed my edit would fix the whole section. My last edit did cite two biology textbooks, even if it wasn't in the appropriate place. I suppose it doesn't matter if wikipedia contains misleading medical advice, because most people will recognize it as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.156.234.221 (talk) 15:02, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Why isn't this IP blocked? Bongo  matic  05:48, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Check this out. []. --Sky Attacker (talk) 06:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

IP has been blocked. --Sky Attacker (talk) 06:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

John Stuart Mill
Re: John Stuart Mill: Thanks for your input on the edits. I can't seem to get the hyperlink to work properly at the bottom of the page. Can you have a look at them for me?

I might extend the section on economic philosophy a little bit because its a fairly central part of his whole philosophical project, so your edits, input, etc. on that would be great. Sorry for getting stuck into a bit of tug-of-war on those edits, I am a newbie and still getting used to wikipedia. I just hope its clear that I wasn't trying to put in anything that was false, or biased, etc. Stevesawalker (talk) 08:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Steve, it's fixed--the problem was a single "}" at the end, instead of a double. Sometimes you can stare at something like that for hours and not find it--some of the folks on this very talk page have helped me out with such problems also, sometimes you just don't see it. Now, look at the code: you'll see that a complete template, filled out as much as possible, looks much better as a reference. Look around and you'd have found the date and author at the bottom, for instance. As for that section, there is an issue there, and that's that there is a main article. In the main article on Mill, these sub-sections ought to be brief, and as you can tell from the history, I've tried to economize considerably. So don't expand too much, that's my advice. Perhaps you could try to find a better reference for that flat taxation thing, one whose authority is more clear (for more information, see WP:RS, for instance). Take care, Drmies (talk) 14:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Ripped jeans
What do you make of this new article? ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Woooow...how do you run into these gems? New page patrol or so? I've been hanging out at recent changes, which is kind of fun. Oh, I'm playing the inclusionist again, for Pagan metal. Haven't seen any bacon in a long time... (Wait, were you serious? expand for DYK!) Drmies (talk) 04:23, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I dunno. I mean I think ripped jeans are like sort of notable... right?  I posted as link to the article on the jeans talk page.  I imagine there must be citations.  Could be an interesting article.  Pagan metal looks good, but needs more wicca. By the way, I don't mean to brag, but the vandalism of my user page recently has been a lot more entertaining than the posting of that band's article on yours. Just saying.  When is your RfA going live?  I have a LOT of questions that need answering... ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you miss the bush vandalisms?? That was hot. What did you do to deserve yours? Drmies (talk) 19:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Bush vandalism? Why wasn't I informed? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The link's on your page! See "Dang Boy". Drmies (talk) 19:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So it is. So it is. And apparently I can't A7 a school. Times are tough indeed.  That was some interesting vandalism. Why you? Why me? Isn't that the start of a Stevie Wonder song? Anyway, thanks for the Shakespeare quote. I shalst goeth onwards unto thingsth wonted doingst with promptness. Or something. Still no comment on your RfA? Wuss. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha no. Drmies (talk) 19:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

welcome
Welcome to the project. Ikip (talk) 05:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Mistaken accusation
Please see User_talk:76.185.42.146 to read my response.

Pagan metal
While not fluent in German, I'm pretty good at finding sources and have a couple friends fluent in german. Is there any way I could help? Soxwon (talk) 14:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Well, there are two problems with the article: editors who remove sourced context (based in part on their lack of German) and editors who add unsourced content, and a lack of reliable sources... Those are serious problems, and the best thing to happen to the article would be the adding of decent references for the genre, better yet, right now, for the record labels. If you can find some of that material, independent of labels, fanzines, band websites, userboards, etc., that would be great! Drmies (talk) 15:01, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I know this may be a bit premature, but perhaps we should keep an eye on IP 86.166.243.9/83.218.158.202. B/w the AfD and then deleting almost all of the bands associated with the genre seems to suggest they don't have the article's best interests at heart. Soxwon (talk) 15:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK?
Thats cool, it might just scrape a DYK. I'm afraid the Jesus article will need more in it I think. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 17:04, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Haha that's funny LOL Dr. Blofeld       White cat 17:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That "Canon" booklet is a treasure trove. Leaf through it--we might get one or two more out of it! Or maybe that canon should be its own article...hmm... Drmies (talk) 17:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

How about this source? Dr. Blofeld       White cat 17:25, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha! That is great. The brothers used to work county fairs, until one day, "Willy werd knock-out geslagen door een kangoeroe." Priceless! OK, that is too good to be true, and it looks reliable to me. I'll work it in. Great find! Drmies (talk) 18:51, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And Willy Mullens is, in fact, the gentleman--since the original actor's fiance would not let him incur that shame. And there was a real cop, who did not look kindly on there being naked legs and a fake cop. Drmies (talk) 18:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Dr. B., this is soooo much bigger--next up, an article on the brothers, which should also be DYK material--should we split them up now? Look what I've added to the article, and I got a couple more sources on the Alberts Freres. Drmies (talk) 19:24, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah I didn't realise you were the one who helped with uliger. Yeah you can see I'm about as exotic and diverse as anybody on english wikipedia with my interests. That's what makes this site so cool. You can start a silent Dutch film one minute, an Argentine lake the next and a Mongolian literature article the next! I'm about to upload some PD early Dutch film images including an image of Mullens so go for it. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 20:48, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Problem of evil
Page numbers should be used for books. See WP:CITE. First source had no page numbers. Regarding the second source I looked at it and could see no mention of a "problem of evil". Of course, almost any source mentioning evil will also discuss problems. Any problem can be seen as evil. But there was no mention of a definition of a specific "problem of evil". If you have a quote, then could you please state it.Ht686rg90 (talk) 22:48, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:Cite does not say that at all. It suggests page numbers, but that's not a law. I was looking at notes 8 and 9 instead of 7 and 8, but that does not change the principle of the matter. Note 7 I cannot verify here, and yes, I wish it had page numbers, but I will accept on good faith that the information is there--and besides, this is the lead of the article, where general matters are touched upon. Note 8 does refer to page numbers, and they do prove the point: the problem of evil is relevant to scientific disciplines such as evolutionary ethics, as is for instance clearly stated in the series of questions on p. 103. Drmies (talk) 23:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you reasonable verify a whole book? There is a reason scientific literature gives page numbers for books. Regarding the second source, yes of course there are various "problems" associated with "evil". Like the problem of how to stop evil, the problem of how to classify evil, the problem of which evils are worst, and yes, the problem of why evil exists. But as usually understood the phrase the "problem of evil" refers to the existence of evil together with a 3-O being. See the entries on evil and the problem of evil in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy and the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy.Ht686rg90 (talk) 23:34, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Finally, have a look at how the article looked before the recent massive changes that were not discussed on talk page first..Ht686rg90 (talk) 23:37, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * So now you have broken up the lead into three sections, getting consecutively shorter, the last section of which has only one sentence, and it starts with a "But." Moreover, it takes into account ONLY the Anglo-American tradition, as your Stanford source clearly says. That's not good writing: Wikipedia aims to be broader than that. Drmies (talk) 00:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Notable?
sSSSs SSSSSSS SSSSSSS SSSSS .--' '--.                /         \                 / |       | \               / / \  :  / \ \                             \ \ /     \ / /               _`\/   .   \/`_____              /;         ;/|             /    '.__|__.'    _/             /__________________/            |              jgs | See ASCII porn ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:56, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Classy--kelapstick (talk) 23:59, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Does that even qualify? What "core"? Bongo  matic  01:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh I want her. But what is flying out of her hair? Oh! the top of her head moved! Drmies (talk) 04:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, only in edit mode. Drmies (talk) 04:41, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Problem of Evil
If you were being serious by your edit comment, I think you want Template:Globalize. --Cybercobra (talk) 00:34, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Scouting gijsbrecht van aemstel
Not as exciting as ASCII porn I admit, but this might also be something for which you have an intimate knowledge and impressive expertise. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's another for you boss Indie Recordings. Hard to believe heavy metal is popular in the land of Kitchen Stories, go figure! ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:50, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, you didn't recognize my incognito contribution to the first? or to Articles for deletion/Mia Rose? I'm on it, even when I'm off! Drmies (talk) 19:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * People really seem to have something against youtube. Seems like a perfectly democratic way to achieve fame. Far more so than merican Idol or the record business wouldn't you say? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:48, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I hate YouTube, or youtubism. But this Rose girl--see the latest development there. She's got coverage, and it's significant. Maybe the article needs a bit of a rewrite? Nudge nudge? (I would, but I've been working on Old Crow, and now I'm a bit woozy.) Drmies (talk) 20:50, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Jeesh it's sunny out and I've been slaving away on the Nissan Saurus. Cut me some slack! Are you supposed to go back and sign if you weren't logged in or whatever? Or are you using socks now? :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:53, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you going to weigh in on Indie Recordings? Given all the blue links isn't it notable? Or are those all non-notable bands?  Or perhaps you already voted under an alter ego? I just saw your intravenous coffee comment.  Good stuff. I had some Thai coffee the other day at my new Pho place. But the Philipino bread bombs with egg and pork in the middle I get across the street are even better. Find out what they're called for me. Thanks! How's This Earth of Mankind coming? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:58, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh and since you're not busy you can check the Dutch and Indonesian Wikipedia sites for a photo of Pramoedya Ananta Toer. Old Crow needs one too. Thanks! You're the best. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I looked at Indie, but don't know what to do there. The blue links are there, sure, but the bands are totally unknown to me, and they're quite small. So I don't see how those deals establish notability, and right now I don't have the time or the inclination to go search for things that may satisfy WP:CORP. We're all sleepy here! Oh, I went through an old MQS-deletion discussion since BQZip is nominated for admin, and on my mom's birthday last year I was quite a hothead. It's a miracle MQS still answers when I call...does he? Hey MQS, I should have been friendlier, sorry. That bread bomb, that sounds terrific, actually. OK, gotta get to work. ('Real' work.) Drmies (talk) 02:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Requests for adminship/BQZip01 4
Thank you for the support. — BQZip01 — talk 02:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I look forward to the check! Good luck, Drmies (talk) 03:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * DUDE! That's hilarious! Perhaps you should reconsider your support then, because the best you'll get from me is 2005-Penny-Uncirculated-Obverse-cropped.pngFormative Years in Indiana Reverse.jpg (my two cents). :-P — BQZip01 —  talk 05:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Work? WORK???
In an effort to stop you from completing any work I wonder if I could get you to look at this ? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Quark? It's delicious! Especially when flavored and sold as a dessert! I'll find a source too. Thanks for letting me know. Haha, I'm sitting in a classroom full of students taking their final exam. Drmies (talk) 16:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to change this cheesecake thing--it's not the same thing, and it rubs me the wrong way. See what you think in a couple of minutes; I have to do some sourcing too. Drmies (talk) 16:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Time to panic?
"The End of Baconmania: Our Long Coronary Nightmare Is Almost Over". Although this story says bacon is kicking butt and taking names on the social media front. I just don't know what to believe any more. Where can I get fair and balanced news coverage??? ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not sure, by my wife was watching Oprah the other day and bacon salt and baconaise was featured, also bacon lip balm.--kelapstick (talk) 17:03, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am thinking that we need to create an article about this company, J & D's is the name, or maybe Justin Esch and Dave Lefkow, they come up a lot. I was thinking about a List of bacon products article too, but I am not sure what is the best route to take. --kelapstick (talk) 17:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just after I merged both Baconnaise and Bacon salt to bacon? (Maybe they've been demerged by now...) Well, maybe...give it a shot...we're running out of possible bacon articles anyway, I think. Drmies (talk) 17:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, I hope someone will be here after me--I put a strip of bacon (see www.bacolicio.us) on the website and made it the default homepage. The end of bacon? Ich don't think so! Hey CoM, have another look at Quark. It needs expansion. Drmies (talk) 17:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am going to be tied up this afternoon and tomorrow, if either of you want to work on it, the start is at User:Kelapstick/Sandbox2, I am not sure if it should be about the people or about J-D's Down Home Enterprises also bacon salt has a YouTube channel.--kelapstick (talk) 17:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I left a note bewailing our demise below the article--I hope that I spoke for all of us. Drmies (talk) 17:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This just in, Mitch Morgan does not have a page, bourbon with a bacon garnish!--kelapstick (talk) 17:45, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, I decided to move the article to J-D's Down Home Enterprises, I have a bit of history in the sandbox, and if we have multiple editors I want to keep the articles history correct, rather than a cut-paste, there is only one source in the article now, I am putting the others on the talk page. I will leave it in you and CoM's capable hands, and I look forward to its DYK.--kelapstick (talk) 18:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And I am glad to see that the good doctor has started working on such important articles such as 69 Sexy Things 2 Do Before You Die. --kelapstick (talk) 18:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Between working pagan metal and quark, I need a bit of sexy. Drmies (talk) 18:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

This article from the New York Times about a restaurant serving a dish termed "the conflicted jew" that involves bacon wrapped chicken livers as well as some other pork jowling fare seems very notable but I'm not sure where to include it. Any suggestions? Happy to see Geo and the Dr. bringing sexy back. If you can get a photo of yourselves wearing a bacon bra that would be a very encyclopedic illustration for our articles. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Here is their Flickr profile, perhaps we can get them to change the licensing on some of their pictures so we can use them here?--kelapstick (talk) 18:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I like the J&D's article. I started one on a bacon book of some sort. The book at the bottom of the mania page is also notable I believe. How could it not be? I think this quote sums up my feelings: " I'm very excited at the possibility of the hipsters moving along to the next shiny thing and leaving the bacon where it belongs - in my belly. Nothing to see here, move along. Bacon has always and will always be awesome. Celery is only good for garnish in bacon bloody marys." I say beware of foreign elitists and socialists glomming onto the bacon craze for their hipster commie purposes... ;) ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

re: Pagan Metal
You already explained on talk, there's no problems. Soxwon (talk) 18:26, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reversal. I've left a vandal 2-warning on the user's talk page; I've had enough of it. Drmies (talk) 19:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * considering he appears to be IP hopping (he has used 3) and his first edits for the other two were for the AfD, I'd take him to AN/I if he does it again. Soxwon (talk) 19:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Three? I thought it was only two. I'll look again. AN/I is what I was thinking about too--I've never done that before and I'd hate to start, but it's really too much. Drmies (talk) 19:14, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Support Pork Week?
Desperate times, desperate measures.... See also Bacon: A Love Story. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you see this? Drmies (talk) 19:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You might as well read Weekly World News. It's just as reliable. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Just in case you haven't had had had had had had had had had had had enough...
I'm hoping to keep the conversation about this article active and avoid the usual fleeing from a topic that takes place after an AfD has closed. There was much talk about merging this article but little agreement on where to merge it to. Therefore I am informing everyone who participated in the debate of the ongoing conversation here in order to bring this matter to a close sometime in our lifetimes. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Kronos Quartet discography
Congrats on getting the page up to featured status. Now I hope you'll get back to important stuff. Bongo matic  04:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks Bongo! I would be more tickled if I weren't so tired, or so depressed from reading CoM's talk page. I'm going to put something nice up there, if only to cheer me up. Drmies (talk) 04:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Relax and have some gin.
 * Nice work doc! --kelapstick (talk) 15:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)


 * thanks! Haha, and CoM always bitching about how useless and irrelevant that article was. I mean, it's a much bigger story than Barack Obama or anything else around here--except for bacon and mining, of course. Drmies (talk) 16:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Bacon salt
I think it is capable of being a stand alone article, it is the first product produced by J-D's Down Home Enterprises, that launched the company and most of the press centres around it...what do you think?
 * That's a different matter. I think it probably could, though chances are there'll be some naysayers. But with some references from the Bacon mania page (lots of refs there mention it, though I don't know of any who treat their products in-depth) it might work. Go for it, K. Drmies (talk) 16:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We do have a serious matter, I need a hook for J-D's Down Home Enterprises and I can't get the $5,000 financing loan from the founder's three year old worked in with the bacon salt picture...any suggestions? If you (or anyone else) come up with something can you nom it, I have to take off for Reno for the night and won't be back "actively Wikipeding" until Monday.  Thanks, --kelapstick (talk) 18:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Did you know that a 3-yr old award winning America's Funniest Home Videos contributor bankrolled J-D's Down Home Enterprises, so the company could start producing bacon-flavored salt? ✅ Drmies (talk) 18:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice, thanks...I was going to try to work the picture in, but I think it does well on it's own...the bacon cabal strikes again! I wonder if sometime we could get enough bacon articles up at for DYK at the same time, and take over the whole section...--kelapstick (talk) 20:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for The Misadventure of a French Gentleman Without Pants at the Zandvoort Beach

 * By far the best movie title...ever.--kelapstick (talk) 17:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

LOL and its the main DYK too LOL! Dr. Blofeld       White cat 17:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * With that name and the picture you may take a shot a position at WP:DYKSTATS, it's no bacon explosion though.--kelapstick (talk) 17:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, nothing is...but Blofeld, that picture is priceless. Was that in the public domain? I mean, how did you just get to take it? Drmies (talk) 18:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe this is the definition of irony? --kelapstick (talk) 18:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Just testing
Hi Drmies. I hope you don't mind, I'm just testing my new signature to see how it looks. -- The Legendary  Sky  Attacker  01:13, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you're going to make it so long, why not take the opportunity to provide links to your user page and/or contributions? Bongo  matic  01:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Length but lack of substance. As it happens I just came back from a party where we talked about penises, while a super expensive bottle of Bushmills was passed around--"can I get some Black Bush?" "Sure can." Seriously, Sky, take Bongo's advice--I usually do! Colors look cool though. Drmies (talk) 06:04, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I did. You can see it on his talk page. If it is still there. Thanks. -- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  06:44, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Great news!
I'm back biatch!!! Get ready to party. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:06, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, welcome back. I did a little too much partying last night, so I'm going to take a nap. Good to see you again. Drmies (talk) 15:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Have a look at this...
Can you check this out and make sure it all looks okay so I can notify some of the non-cabal editors who might want to participate ? Feel free to add rules, commentary, formatting, or whatever. It also has an active talk page (but no meta-talk page). Thanks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh and I just stumbled across De Beleefde Big, "star of eponymous program on Flemish broadcaster VTM". Might be an easy translation? Do those count for DYK and the KBC2009? More info available at List of pigs, List of fictional pigs, and Pigs I Have Known. I guess I'm getting a little far afield from bacon. I pledge to refocus. I'm also hoping to get to the to-do list at the bottom of the welcome template when I get a chance, but it keeps updating every time I load my talk page. So much to do, so little time. How's bacon as a hangover remedy? ChildofMidnight (talk) 08:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Why am I tempted to add Yngwie Malmsteen to this list?Dr. Blofeld (talk) 08:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know, Blofeld--but in my book, any guitar player listed as having one of the greatest 50 notes of all time by Guitar Player is no pig! You best tone that down, sirrah! Drmies (talk) 15:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Alberts Frères
Glad you are having fun. I've done a fair but of work on earlier Argentine films myself, many of them contain notable Argentine tango performers and composers.Dr. Blofeld (talk) 08:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Jim McIngvale
I think there is room for a lot more clean up. In my opinion, he meets notabiity criteria. &mdash; ERcheck (talk) 01:10, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you the only one working here?
I am packing, I move on Saturday, so I may be off and on...but more off.--kelapstick (talk) 04:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I totally missed it--so you got a new place? Congratulations! Are y'all excited? I'd help you move, but I got a sore back ;) Drmies (talk) 04:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah we found a place, it's nice, I was by there today, there is even a roundabout there (in town not my driveway).--kelapstick (talk) 05:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Kronos dracula.jpg
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Keep an eye out
The bacon crust pizza with bacon and Strasburg pie (both about halfway down the page) could soon be very notable. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The bacon cinnamon roll on page 3 or so looks like a keeper. Bongo  matic  01:22, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That shit is disgusting. Can I just stick with pig metaphors? Drmies (talk) 01:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Would it be too confusing to say that: if pictures of grotesque bacon products dissuaded you from eating bacon, then bacon could be said to have saved your bacon, given the health implications? I hope these discussions don't interfere with your ability to bring home the bacon, literally and figuratively speaking. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:01, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you weave some insect references in here too? More important, why hasn't Kelapstick started the Splendour beetle article yet? I mean, there's already a picture available. Bongo  matic  02:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There's even something from the German Wikipedia to get started with! Bongo  matic  02:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was stopping by to warn the good Dr. about relying too much on one source. This can be taken as a copyvio by the swarm, and some editors will bug out over it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I know, I realized that too. Thing is, I thought I'd cover the entire OED before I go to the library to see what we have. I am not happy with the article anyway--pig, pork, bacon, all of em? Then, the difference between idiom and expression is sometimes a bit blurry (your original "metaphor" is way too limited anyway--remember, a metaphor is a comparison). So this whole pig might never fly, especially not if I don't get past porking the OED. Drmies (talk) 02:54, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see my addition to the when pigs fly article regarding the fallacy of that idiom, which seems to me like an analogy. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

↵Do you think that "when monkeys fly out of my butt" should be added to that article? Bongo matic  03:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Done, with reference to back up claim that this is used outside of Wayne's World. Feel free to add references about the meaning (there's a cute story about the translation into Spanish). This could be a good opportunity for you to use the cite news template. HEY KELAPSTICK&mdash;WHERE'S MY BEETLE ARTICLE? Bongo  matic  04:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Bongo's article
Had to start a new section, wouldn't fit on the screen of my iPod. I have been pretty tied up with packing for this Saturdays move. Also working on the bacon challenge, by the way, Bongo what are you going to submit? I see you haven't signed on yet. kelapstick (talk) 05:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Good luck on the move, but you might wish to reconsider your priorities.
 * On the challenge, I've gone vegetarian (DrMies, isn't Ghent some kind of province of Holland?). Bongo  matic  05:16, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It ought to be. Drmies (talk) 05:22, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you feel strongly about the vegitarian issue you can make CoMs dream of fakon come true. kelapstick (talk) 05:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for patching that up, it is hard to find the signature button so I enter the ~ manually, and apparently I am anti-full stop. I looked up Fakon, it was a bust, but started User:Kelapstick/Turkey bacon if anyone wants to have a stab at it.  --kelapstick (talk) 15:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Bongo's refactoring
Settle down, people. A period may be a small thing to some of you, but to others it is huge--see here, for instance. If this willful vandalism continues, I'll have no choice but to start a talk page for this talk page, and no one wants to see that. K-stick, in case you need any more periods, you can have some of mine: ....................................... Drmies (talk) 16:16, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Tag for deletion?
ENT Hospital Kolkata,India.I think this article shuld be tagged for deletion for a number of reasons. What are your thoughts? -- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  05:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It appears to have gone already, that was FAST! -- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  05:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, some admins are really quick on the job, and I think that's a good thing. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 14:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Lucifugum pushing from single purpose accounts
OK, so the Lucifugum page was finally deleted at AfD, after a series of speedies. It was obviously recreated immediately and speedied under G4 and salted. Then an article was created under Lucifugum (band) with the same material, so again speedied and salted. Now yet another single purpose account has been created today and is adding Lucifugum to the black metal page repeatedly. I don't want to get into an edit war over those, so I'm just going to let other editors deal with it this time. My question is a) do you think that the various SPAs involved in Lucifugum related edits are probable socks, and b) is the behaviour sufficiently disruptive to warrant an investigation to confirm that they are (removal of ref/notability/AfD tags, blanking pages, moderately abusive language etc.)? I've never come across a situation like this and am not totally sure how to proceed. The SPAs that basically exclusively use Wikipedia to push Lucifugum are: There are quite possibly others, including some IPs. What are your thoughts? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Black pauk 1488
 * Dodkalf
 * Fantomerror
 * Tremolox
 * Sapots
 * Avozpar
 * Well, they're at three now. You're right, of course, I should get to the pub. In fact, I'm going to watch some local death metal bands play at an anti-fascist gig. Should be good. If I can help at all with the pagan metal article, I will, but there don't seem to be too many English sources and it's not a term I've seen used in Terrorizer, Zero Tolerance or Metal Hammer. Actually, the third one might possibly have some sources, but then they also like the term "battle metal" which sounds like a neologism to me. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 18:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Lucifugum has been recreated again. This time our old friend Black Pauk1488 is claiming the page was recreated with the permission of an admin, who in reality seems to have simply transferred the same deleted material to Pauk's user page. I've put it up for speedy (G4) yet again. How many times do they have to recreate the page and insert information about this band into other pages before it constitutes disruption? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:26, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, good question. There's some 1200 admins? They may not all be equally knowledgeable in all areas. Seriously, I think it's disruptive already--the constant reinstating and the socks. In all this time you spend on it, you could probably have proved that eukaryotes are not monophyletic at all. And I understand you'd rather be hanging out at the pub or messing on Wikipedia than studying, but that's no reason to vandalize (as an IP/sock) the article on your profession. Kindly refrain from such disrupting activity! Drmies (talk) 14:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Further fun... I'm usually fairly quick to spot stuff like this, but do you reckon that "Black Pauk1488" contravenes WP:IU? 1488 has got to be a reference to the fourteen words. I'm fairly sure that a blatantly neo-Nazi nick constitutes an "offensive username". Something to mull over, at any rate. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:47, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not important as the Lucifugum article has been salted now, but following a comment from User:Graeme Bartlett (an admin!) that the subject must be notable because of the 11 Interwikis, I went and checked the editors for all the foreign Wikipedias. Guess what? They're the same collection of SPA usernames as those I listed above (with a couple of new ones thrown in for good measure). I actually laughed out loud, though I suppose I should be impressed with our SPA friend's ability to use Google Translate. Incidentally, regarding your earlier comment about Grand Declaration of War, I reckon that's my third favourite album of all time :-P Finally, today I took on the thankless and probably hopeless task of improving the pornogrind article. Probably pointless, but if you spy any more sources I'd appreciate it. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 16:07, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's thoroughly distasteful; that's rather the point. Anyways, to be honest it's one of the sub-subgenres that is unlikely to get further than a stub. Have a good weekend yourself! Blackmetalbaz (talk) 17:15, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK for J-D's Down Home Enterprises

 * The bacon cabal strikes again! I just rewrote National Bowling Stadium, if you can pry yourself away from bacon and the Kronos Quartet, you should take a look at it. --kelapstick (talk) 18:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Changes Parental Alienation
The content keeps getting taken off this webpage by advocates who say that parental alienation doesn't exist. The credentials of Prof. Bala were put on to prevent the previous complaints that newspaper articles aren't sufficient sources or authorities for use on Wikipedia. Thus, I took of the Globe and Mail reference. Do you have any ideas on how to stop those frequent attacks on that page? They have destroyed it over time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JaniceMT (talk • contribs) 04:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I urge you to take your case to the talk page. Also, rather than delete content (however much you may disagree with it), you could consider working on the actual article. I assume you were the IP whose content I edited a bit? The addition you made to the article was not in a proper encyclopedic tone and did little to clarify the subject. Another editor made a comment on the talk page with which I can only agree: the article is a mess and needs serious work, including references. BTW, there is no policy against newspaper articles. Drmies (talk) 04:53, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiLove
Hey Drmies. [] I got my first WikiLove today. -- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  05:27, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey congratulations! Cock sucker, faggot--it's not very original, but it's a start! You should hear some of the things they say about ChildofMidnight. Keep up the good work, Sky! Drmies (talk) 15:01, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism?
why do you think it is vadalism when I support it with references that also get deleted. it my post that phil jackson is ovarrated with reference gets pulled so should the parts about him being the greatest coach. why is it different. He is overrated, I posted a source to back up my claim. someone else thinks he is one of the greatest. I am not vandalizing the section I am adding conflicting info to what someone else may think is true. I have posted a source to back up my claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.145.218 (talk • contribs)
 * Yeah, a five-paragraph rant from www.bleacherreports.com. Hardly a reliable source. Your personal opinion on Phil Jackson is a fascinating matter, but I'd rather discuss that in another venue. Drmies (talk) 02:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

http://nbabasketballreport.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/phil-jackson-the-most-overrated-coach-in-history/

http://www.chinmusicpress.com/books/doyouknow/voices/news/2008/11/lae_phil_please_just_shut_up.html

http://theangryt.com/?p=624

http://dev2.rootzoo.com/threads/view/NBA-Basketball/General/Calling-out-Phil-Jackson-and-props-to-Adelman._247141

http://www.tickettip.com/blog/phil-jackson-is-an-overrated-coach-agreed/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.172.145.218 (talk) 04:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When I said "another venue" I meant it. That the NBA called him one of the ten most important coaches in history seems to mean little to you. Drmies (talk) 04:47, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Strong WikiLove
I feel like I'm really part of the team now. After reverting edits by a vandalism-only account I get [|this] and [|this] and finally [|this]. -- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  08:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice! A balls reference is good; next thing up for you is to be accused of being part of a conspiracy to keep true knowledge from the people. Keep it up! Drmies (talk) 14:56, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * When your user/talk page gets vandalized, you know that you are doing something right...--kelapstick (talk) 15:35, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Penelope Cruz
I didn't say her statment on faith was ambivalent, but her statement regarding adhering to a specific religion that led to the conclusion drawn by the editor to call her a deist was. Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:59, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, ambivalence wasn't the problem; the editor simply drew their own conclusion and invented the fact that Cruz was a deist. The interview, which looks legit, does give reason to make certain statements in the article about her faith, which is why I restored the edit minus the deist note. Drmies (talk) 04:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Richard Aellen
My pleasure - any time. :-) --User:AlbertHerring Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla! 15:26, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Music
While you are on the topic what do you think about Articles for deletion/Whitebeak, simultaneously up for speedy deletion, I think I could sell 50 copies world wide of albums of me singing...if I tried.--kelapstick (talk) 18:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * HA!--kelapstick (talk) 19:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll believe it when I see it... In the meantime, the bacon maple donut article needs work. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:26, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The CDs double as coasters. --kelapstick (talk) 20:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I made some revisions to the turkey bacon article. I hope y'all approve. Drmies (talk) 20:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I disapprove of the removal of the "u" from flavour, since turkey bacon is not only American, therefore either spelling is appropriate (US/UK/CAN), provided it is consistent throughout the article. However I do not disapprove enough to change it back :D  I like the rest though.  --kelapstick (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought my edit summary was sufficiently xenophobic? Drmies (talk) 21:10, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Christmas
Your user page just got vandalised. A christmas tree is a new one. -- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  22:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey thanks! Lovely tree it was. Drmies (talk) 22:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Jack Weiss Edit Warring
I have tried on numerous occasions to reach out to the other party: Sloanlier to discuss the issues involved. Sloanlier continues to ignore my comments and simply undoes my edits. The runoff election is tomorrow, May 19th, and he is trying to slip in edits at the last minute to mislead voters. For the primary election, which was March 3rd, he did the same thing.

Please help.

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.79.166.64 (talk) 22:09, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think a Wikipedia article is going to swing the election, but still. I see no discussion whatsoever on the talk page; communicating via edit summaries is not a preferred method. There is also no discussion that I see on either of y'all's talk pages. Both of you are guilty of an enormous amount of edits and reversals, and administrative action may be taken. Really, try discussing on the talk page. Drmies (talk) 22:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

This is Sloanlier:

My edits of today constitute returning language and sources that meet Wikipedia's guidelines.

This language and prior contributions I have made have repeatedly been vandalized.

I don't know what kind of discussion I can have with people who continually violate Wikipedia's guidelines.

Perhaps, if the apparent adherents of Jack Weiss will not follow Wikipedia's guidelines, the article should be removed.

Thank you,

Sloanlier —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sloanlier (talk • contribs) 22:21, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I left a comment at User talk:Sloanlier regarding the addition of unsourced, defamatory material in a living person's biography.--kelapstick (talk) 22:58, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks K-stick. You're a much more patient editor than I am. Did you see the edit history for Jack Weiss? It's worse than Theories that Barack Obama is really a werewolf during a full moon. Drmies (talk) 02:32, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It can be amusing when people who don't understand policy accuse other editors of going against policy.--kelapstick (talk) 16:07, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Fantic Motor
As an expert on all thing Dutchian, please have a look. ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess it was Italian after all. But they set up operations in the Netherlands? Oh well.  I guess it's back to paint and chocolate processing...

Also, is this Eckankar related to this hotdish? (Both from Minnesota) ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Are you BBQing? Traveling?  Being an employee of our education system I think you have months of vacation coming up.  Lucky boy! ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I take it it's not a public school?
 * I suppose even the elites need catering to, albeit at a lower salary and with less generous benefits than their public sector brethren. But there's something to be said for small classes and academic standards. Just look at the good a lifetime of private schooling did for our Commander in Chief!
 * Tough times though for many. Unemployment up to 10% now and headed still higher. If only we had leaders who knew something about economics and military leadership (is someone going to ask about the plan for Afghanistan and what exactly the mission our troops are being sent on entails?).
 * Even when misguided voters and a delusional media leave us with nothing but hope and empty promises, we have to keep the faith. ;)
 * Ha ha. I'M BACK!!! Did I mention that? Good times Dr. Good times. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:40, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha, it is a publicly funded institution, where we'll do anything for a buck. BTW, your current president got a lot more out of his private schooling than the last one did, and one may ask what that president's plan for anything was (when I say "president," I'm referring to Dick, of course, who claims that people have no right to investigate or ban torture even though, he says, we don't torture). Good times indeed--I just saw my sister in law's unemployment benefits. She's just back from Afghanistan. Her job was to create feel-good stories for "the media," who swallow that hook, line, and sinker. Hey, I NEVER left! Now back to bacon. And Elisabeth of Hungary! Drmies (talk) 17:48, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * For your vicarious viewing pleasure . Mission accomplished M.F. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:03, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, that's almost as funny as "Motherlover." Hey, it's the uncensored version! Get the conservatives out of the FTC, and we'll have free speech again, MF! Drmies (talk) 18:07, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That was nice, some funky music while looking at Recent Changes. Drmies (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Regarding the image on the right...we should be so lucky...you betcha!--kelapstick (talk) 18:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, do you still have a condo in Canada I could use if that becomes true? Drmies (talk) 18:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * We sold our house when we left Sudbury, fortunately it was at the height of the market, I can get you a deal on a place on the lake in Hastings Highlands though.--kelapstick (talk) 18:27, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Doc is going to be in for a real surprise when he finds out Canada is led by a fiscal conservative and that they don't have grits, BBQ or pulled pork like we have here. Collard greens and black-eyed peas? Ich nich think so. Get ready for pizza-ghetti. Heck they try to pass off ham as bacon. But given Doc's affinity for the leadership of the French in international policy, he'll feel welcome in the more backwards regions. :) And he can get back to ice skating and criticizing the Norte Americanos. It's ironic that Canada and Europe are dominated by Conservative leaders now, while we have a socialist in power. Aren't the Brits about to oust that sweaty fellow in favor of fiscal sanity? ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:57, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You guys are the ones who try to pass ham off as Canadian Bacon, in Canada bacon is bacon, and we have peameal bacon too, which is really justback bacon with peameal around it. Correct about the BBQ, pulled pork, you can get grits at Denny's, but no Tri-tip, ever try fiddleheads?--kelapstick (talk) 01:55, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You see that? Peameal.  Would you eat something called that? And now he wants us to eat fern.  I'm surprise he's not closer with his arugula loving elitist brother from another mother. :) This convo is making me hungry for some pastrami pizza. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:56, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppeteering
Have you ever seen anything like this? There are about fifteen socks on this page. -- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  20:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha yes, see my note on the top of that page. It get out of hand a bit, I think. Drmies (talk) 22:19, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
Fabrictramp |  talk to me  18:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice talkback template Mies. --kelapstick (talk) 21:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Pokemon Voice Actor Controversy
This is serious business, the Pokemon community is astir, and when are these important questions going to be answered: Are you going to AfD it? Seriously is it that big a controversy? Can Pokemon be controversial, aside from Drunkachu, Pikachu's alcoholic uncle on his father's side (that nobody talks about, but always gets invited to Thanksgiving dinner).--kelapstick (talk) 22:01, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) What is the Pokemon community?
 * 2) What does astir mean?
 * I couldn't help myself. Hopefully this causes another stir in the Pokemon community, maybe a stir that would be notable enough for inclusion on Wikipedia...--kelapstick (talk) 22:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, you're harsh. Hey, I don't want to sound toooooo ignorant, but I really don't know what Pokemon is. A cartoon? Playing cards? Electronic dolls? A video game? A TV program? All of the above? Still, I voiced my opinion, of course. Oh, tomorrow morning we have grits! Which means we have bacon! Drmies (talk) 22:38, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I enjoyed your comment at AfD...--kelapstick (talk) 02:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

More good news
. And K-stick has a 3-car garage M.F. That's how he rolls!!! Keepin' it real in the other Sunshine state. And he's getting satellite radio too. So he can get Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter on the commute. Does she have a radio show? No? How about Dennis Miller? Stephen Baldwin? Maybe Dick Cheney will get one. You'd listen right? You Phil Donahue loving M.F. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:53, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I mainly listen to the CBC and the BBC on it. Right now it us in my wife's car, but I will get a new docking station so I can use it. We got it last year because we couldn't get anything on regular radio, it's a great investment.  And three car garages are how I roll, I am standing in it right now.  House warming next weekend?--kelapstick (talk) 04:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No NPR? What's up with that.  You're missing out on Click and Clack and Terri Gross's ranting. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Who's Phil Donahue? Drmies (talk) 04:17, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Cancerslug
Seems to be topic on which you have some expertise, and I noticed they are from your neck of the woods. Are you in Alabama still? I forget. Summer then football. Life is good. Looks like it's going to be another big year for Auburn. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:13, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Frak you
No speedy; we have WP:NFT, which I normally put in as a prod. Ironholds (talk) 04:24, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeedy, which is bloody annoying - it's a minor flaw in the system, in the same way that the Titanic had a minor flaw in its hull. If I had my way WP:MADEUP would be a speedy category, but unfortunately it isn't - although you could try pushing for it at the WP:CSD talkpage? Ironholds (talk) 04:29, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The unfortunate thing about that is usually the creating editor contests the prod, so it has to go to AfD and the process that goes with that.--kelapstick (talk) 04:37, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Whinnegar? Seems a subject that you guys must have expertise on. ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm feeling good
In the last 8 days my user page has been vandalized 16 times.-- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  00:57, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Quickly becoming legendary indeed! Drmies (talk) 04:39, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Now 18. +2 vandalisms.-- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  07:03, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Alyssa's dog
No problem. I hope Alyssa is over her sadness now and that she only remembers the good times. Rossrs (talk) 01:42, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Assück
Having a somewhat minor problem with the Assück page in that SPAs (in this case an IP and a newly created account claiming to be a member of the band) are constantly removing sourced material (genre, obviously... what else?!) from Terrorizer and Maximumrocknroll because they don't like how the journalists have described them. Just a heads-up. The page is something of a headache as it is, as they have no website, no decent biographies exist and I'm struggling to find interviews. Terrorizer and Maximumrocknroll obviously consider them important, so I suspect they pass WP:MUSIC. I've added what I can in terms of sources (even if people do keep removing them) but if you spot anything else let me know. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 11:47, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You're kidding--that's an actual name, and people care enough to vandalize it? That genre stuff is getting really ridiculous. BTW, I noticed that the same kind of thing seems to be happening in the rap scene. I'll keep an eye open, sure--Assuck will look nice on my watchlist, next to Arundhati Roy and bacon explosion. Hey, did you do anything loud this weekend? Anything happen down at the pub? LL Cool J was here in town last night. Drmies (talk) 16:54, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * And here I thought Assück was a general term to describe the genre embodied by Doc's taste in music. But seriously, Tina is on tour. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you still thinking about her legs? Dirty young man. Drmies (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I checked and sadly it seems Tina's tour may be over now? I wonder if like a certain woman from Alabama with a more than two decade history in television as a pioneering host of cooking shows, Tina will some day be undermined and deemed non-notable by future generations? I guess it's a good thing she's been mentioned now and again in the illustrious New York Times. So maybe that will help?
 * Unfortunately, those running the show here on Wikipedia seem to suffer from the narrowminded ignorance of world views based solely on the (self-admittedly) biased "mainstream" media sources like the NYT and MSNBC. There's a whole world out there of other perspectives. Many people determine notability based on accomplishements, rather than relevancy to the Kennedy crowd living on the Upper East Side of Manhattan and vacationing in the Hamptons (as well as their sheeple followers). My friend, you need to get out more. ;) ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * CoM, are you down in the dumps? Do you need a hug? BTW, Tina T. is safe--she had a few albums in the charts, so don't worry. I'll go check Fox News if they have any in-depth articles on their website on that Mobile lady. Drmies (talk) 03:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fox News is way too young. Maybe contact her folks. Thanks! ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Cosette Goldstein
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Cosette Goldstein. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Articles for deletion/Cosette Goldstein. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 21:43, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Jennie Garth
Thanks a lot for opening up discussion. As for your points, I'm uncertain as to what your basis is for "better," but IMO, I think that "Jennie_Garth.jpg" is better because it's more related to her profession, which is what the article primarily discusses. As for being recent, there are only a few months separating the dates that each picture was taken, so it's not really an issue from my viewpoint. -- 4.249.84.8 (talk) 04:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your note. "Better" is partly a judgment call, but the photo I restored has much better color and shows more of her face. Besides, it seemed to me from the history that there was a community agreement of sorts. But if you feel strongly, open up the discussion on the talk page and ask one of the reverters, User:David Shankbone, what his reasons are for his "suck" comment. That is a productive and possibly successful way for you to pursue this. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 05:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Guy apparently has his talk page blocked, but I did open up discussion on the article's. Thanks for the suggestion. -- 4.249.84.8 (talk) 05:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you sign up and get an account, there's no problem. Drmies (talk) 18:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I always liked Jennie Garth, I just didn't know that was her name. Heather Locklear too. I kind of feel for them trying to keep up appearances though. Hollywood is tough place. Thank goodness MQS and I have timeless beauty that becomes more and more endearing with age. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:58, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, same here! But I never cared for Locklear, cause she was so bad on Melrose Place. And I guess what you guys have is timeless alright, though I don't know if beauty is the right word. How about this--you two have "character." Drmies (talk) 18:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Left a suggestion on the talk page regarding this proposing a compromise. James26 (talk) 19:05, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

CBH
What about this source that calls Connie Bea and Estelle the "Mobile version of Julia Child and Martha Stewart"??? A long running show, on one of ONLY two channels in the city at that time? Why Doc would you hate on Alabama? ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:07, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that flyer from the tourism agency... Drmies (talk) 14:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

More great news. I uncovered this from the article history. Wait until you read about her family connections!!! . ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:28, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This is actually a joke... But her obviously notability isn't. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 15:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm coming up with hits here as well: Small Town Papers (3 titles) 25 News - The Lamar Democrat and Sulligent News (AL) 19 News - The Tuskegee News (AL) 3 News - The Florala News (AL) 3 But best of all I got you access to her obit and that of her partner in cooking show crime for cheap! See the AfD. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Dude, I wish I could make her verifiably notable. It sounds like she was a great person--and believe me, it's not for lack of trying that I've come up empty-handed. I tried a lot more than just Googling her. Now, our library is open again tomorrow, and I do need to go to campus (since tomorrow is the last day of my vacation...), so maybe I'll come up with something. Oh! what's that smell? could it be a pound of beans cooking with a pound of bacon? and is that not a gigantic piece of pork butt on the grill? I think Dots would like that too (you know there's two? See today's Montgomery Advertiser.) Later, Drmies (talk) 15:47, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks delicious! I added a comment to the AfD discussion that I think verifies the cited articles exist. Is your position that the obituaries and other coverage is not enough even if verified? What would it take? ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Weak keep? I am going to go tag Hoppin' John for deletion or maybe a redirect to Black eyed peas. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:24, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * More censorship ? Ha ha. Only kidding! :) <--- See the smiley face. (One can't be too careful about humor in these times.) ChildofMidnight (talk) 03:42, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, if only it had been cited. And you're right, one can't be too careful. :| See? ;) Drmies (talk) 03:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Joker Troll
, you put your username instead of the name of the troll--Jac 16888 Talk 18:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Drmies (talk) 18:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I just assumed good faith and thought Doc was turning himself in. No? ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:03, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

U of A
Bernie Madoff is an alumnus? Bwahahahaha!!! I can't wait to hear you explain this one away. GO TIGERS!!!

Hey Genovese said Hank Aaron is related to Estella Payton (Aaron's from Mobile too right?). No word yet on Walter, but he could be a cousin... I'm finding sources left and right. More articles to come on the show and its notable guests. Is it worth upgrading my "discussional indicator of preference" to speedy keep? That food looks awfully good! Thank goodness for the pioneering Southern cooks and fixtures of the area's cuisine who established such wonderful culinary traditions. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:33, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, Gentleman Jack needs your help (Genovese created it so be nice for a change!). I guess more peeps are needed on new page patrol. I used to help out there before the drain of time in dealing with grotesque policy violators, wikilawyers, harassers, POV pushers, and vandals started distracting me. ;) ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * An alumnus from Hofstra University, that is, haha. And you see that I've done a bit more work on Gentleman Jack. As for your time being drained, you could just stay out of trouble... ;) Drmies (talk) 14:15, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

"Madoff graduated from Far Rockaway High School in 1956 and attended the University of Alabama for one year where he became a brother of the Tau Chapter of the Sigma Alpha Mu". Clearly this was a pivotal time in his life and helped establish his world view and approach to "business". And he's a fellow Democrat is he not? And with an impressive record of major philanthropic gifts? Isn't that just the sort of generous communalism you identify with and support? I mean compared to Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pelosi, he probably qualifies as a saint. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:24, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't believe in philantropy. Drmies (talk) 20:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sympathetic to your position. After all, the record for aid (verse trade and investment) makes clear that handouts have mostly served to empower tyrants, undermine free enterprise, foster dependency, encourage corruption, and resulted in a failed waste of resources that has little or no effect in implementing meaningful gains in standards of living and quality of life. Meanwhile trade and investment's track record in Japan, Germany, South Korea, Singapore, and now China + India has brought hundreds of millions into the middle class, encouraged legal and educational reforms that have empowered individuals to gain opportunities and high standards of living, and fostered Democratic and free societies. I think your plan to assign Ayn Rand as a contrarian perspective for your students is a terrific idea that will encourage critical thinking. (For outsiders, this all sarcastic banter with my devoted socialist and Chairman Mao adoring buddy whose radical thinking led to his exile from Western Europe (as Marx and Trotsky were sent off from Russia). Fortunately, he has found a new home in the land of the free and the home of the brave, and we welcome him to our shores as long as he respects our rules and continues to enjoy a good BBQ and engages in the prolific application of ketchup to his freedom fries and meats.) ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

CalCon
The CalCon AfD closed as no consensus? There were no good points on the keep side, just some online forums and the threat of being seen as elitists. kelapstick (talk) 04:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, that is somewhat surprising. Do you care to take it to the review board? I would support that. Drmies (talk) 04:10, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Note the closing admin is questioned on his talk page about two other no consensus closures. I will ask him on his talk page tomorrow before going to the review board (it will have to wait, I am on the iPod, hard to type). kelapstick (talk) 04:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. No, I didn't look at the talk page yet, I've been busy on some other little thing. ;) On your iPod...so fancy! Drmies (talk) 04:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Looks like somebody beet me to the talk page, and Bongo tagged it with notability, will look and see what happens later today, I have to run into Reno this morning. Thanks for the nom, I will accept later today too.  :D  Cheers, --kelapstick (talk) 13:54, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

We have a common enemy
Phil Bridger (talk) 17:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw your self-reversion. I'll remove the external link, because I don't think that linking to a potentially unreliable wiki is appropriate, especially for a subject where misinformation could be dangerous. Since this editor has been putting spam links for a quack remedy for a non-existent medical condition into the Adrenal fatigue article I wouldn't be inclined to assume too much good faith in regard to edits to other medical articles. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:51, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Cal Con
The AFD for Cal Con, which you participated in, was recently closed as no consensus. I have requested a deletion review at Deletion review/Log/2009 May 26. -- Whpq (talk) 18:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Drmies (talk) 19:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: K-stick's RfA
Cheers, – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 21:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) Editing stats are just that—edit count, deleted edit count, mainspace-to-total ratio, most edited article, etc. I usually find this info from Soxred's tool.
 * 2) Sure, I'll fix the timestamp at the top. I'm pretty sure you can go ahead and transclude the RfA at this point.

30 minutes until B-Day
You seem to have your hands full, but the time has come. Has it not? What happens now? When the clock strikes midnight (wherever Wikipedia's clock happens to be located) can I start moving articles to mainspace? Are you with me? K-Stick appears to be too busy driving around listening to satellite radio, lusting after the power to block me, to be much help. ALL HANDS ON DECK!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:36, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I am actually "working" (I also used air quotes), I understand that may be a concept that you are unfamiliar with, but stick with me and you may learn something. I had to go to Reno today and got in late (have you ever tried to get blood from a two year old, it is not pleasant), so I got in late, and have been keeping an eye on/answering the RfA (sorry I didn't get the donut article finished).  I haven't moved the radio yet so it was Cowboy Junkies on the busted ass CD player this morning :( but I have Sook-Yin Lee on podcast this morning so all is well.  I will move all the ones in my userspace at midnight UTC, I suggest that you create all the hooks on a subpage using   so you can dump them all on WP:TDYK simutaniously.  Then leave another note on the talk page.  But that is just my suggestion.  Have you made a decision about what picture to use?--kelapstick (talk) 23:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, even the Canadians are accounted for... but still no sign of the Dutch special forces??? Hmmm... ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if anyone will want to know why your job entails getting blood from two year olds... But maybe you were just typing fast and that's something you had to do AFTER you got home to your family. I'll try to assume "good faith" and hope for the best. It looks like Doc's articles are live too. I'm thinking of just throwing the whole DYK hook block up there and then sorting it out. Is that a bad idea? ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:19, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess actually the main thing is to get all the articles created in the next 22 or so hours. Are there any last minute article we should bust out? The DYK nomming can always be done later if I'm not mistaken? ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Dutch troops here. Sorry, I've been busy--met a friend (a former student, from my first year in graduate school) last night whom I hadn't seen in five years. Besides, my pancreas has been playing up, stupid thing. Oh, and my three-year old woke up twice last night, crying. And the summer term starts tomorrow... That "bacon expressions" (or pig expressions) article is a bust, forget about it. Unless you can finish it. For DYK we have five days after going live. Is what I wrote already up? I'll check in a moment. I had to call in outside help on K-stick's RfA since I was confused by the rules. What a night! what a day! K, is the kid OK? I hope so. I understand your situation, and have enough empathy to make up for Child's callousness. Drmies (talk) 16:42, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The little guy is fine, they just want to do some tests, and don't worry CoM expressed the appropriate concern on my talk page.--kelapstick (talk) 16:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Good to hear both those things. CoM needs to be on a tight leash sometimes. Hey, your RfA is going great--it must be nice to hear people say such positive things about you, and you well deserve those feathers in your cap. Listen, since you're going to be an admin, you should know shit. I'm trying to figure out what to do with that RfA, and User:Juliancolton has helped out with one (or two?) steps, but by now I can't figure out where in the process (this process we are. Can you figure it out and just do it? Julian said we can transclude--and honestly, I don't know what that means; the term is not used in the instructions. I don't know on which page there will be a date stamp. I don't even know what timezone Wikipedia is in (or which one I'm in). And I probably don't want to learn these things... Or, just tell me, step by step, what I need to do, always remembering how kind you are to dumb users such as me... Thanks boss, Drmies (talk) 17:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I am glad to see it is going so well, only one oppose so far. The instructions are a little ambiguous, I had transcluded it (which means add  to Requests for adminship), but I was supposed to have answered some of the questions first, so Synergy reverted my transclusion, and Julian re-transcluded it once it was ready, so in short, I don't think you have to do anything else, just let it run its course.  By the way, I wish you hadn't used indefinitely in your question, I have written it about 10 times and haven't gotten the spelling right once!--kelapstick (talk) 17:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ha, sorry! I was interested in your answer to that question, and I think I agree. I keep mistyping "angels" as "angles." When you get to be admin, we'll start training you in avoiding comma splices. Drmies (talk) 17:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No way, you are not taking away my commas, --kelapstick (talk) 17:19, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Doc, good to have you with us now that the B-day campaign is almost over. :) I was mistaken in thinking the articles in your userspace had been moved to mainspace, but I'm sure you're on it.
 * There's a discussion at WT:DYK about the best way to include the bacon hooks in the updates (all together or one or two at a time).
 * I misunderstood K-Schtick's comment and thought he was just getting home and doing a routine stabbing. But I will not deny being callous, especially after running where my shoe rubs against my big toe (not something you can relate to I suppose). I have a sore throat too. It's like we're all having health challenges at the same time. Do you think the stresses involved in the BC2009 are too great? Should we call it off? There is also a massive controversy over whether Elvis ate bacon on his PBB sandwiches. I suspect Arbcom will be needed. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:59, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, yes, Arbcom will be our next stop. OK, that was actually really funny. No, don't know a damn thing about running, though I remember split shins--shin split?--shit splin? whenever I pretended to run a bit. Drmies (talk) 17:04, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, Angels on horseback is up, as is Snake 'n' Bacon--why the latter is a recreation of a deleted article is a mystery to me. Please check it out, if you will. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 17:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't worry Doc. It's not a deleted article. It's a deleted redirect. I guess I was supposed to post it on the requested moves over redirects list instead, but I forgot about that process and just nommed it for speedy. Sorry about that. I hope you feel better soon. I trust you are self-medicating with the appropriate mix of Mitch Morgan, bacontini, and sauteed bacon. You could try Whineggar too... Thank goodness it's not your liver causing trouble, that would be a far more serious problem. I'm going to see if I can't do something useful in trying to expand Snake 'n' Bacon (does it have anythign to with Shake 'n' Bake?). ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, here's the show! Drmies (talk) 17:28, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have room for Quicktime on my pc with all the music "sharing" I've done. ;) But I checked out this clip . Seems very literary and even has an encyclopedic reference of sorts. Right up your alley. No bacon in the clip, but I will see if I can record the full show or you can send me a check for a more powerful computer. This Apple IIc was top of the line when I got it... And don't you still owe me $5 for your wager at AfD on the survival of a certain child actor? What is that with interest now?  And finally, should I template you for inuse template warring? Shameful. ;) ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoa there boy, I thought you was done! Sorry. But I did clean up after yo butt, and I'll take 5 bucks as payment (cause I should be writing a lecture for tomorrow...). Drmies (talk) 18:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: punctuation
Regarding the message you left on my talk page, I was only following this Manual of Style guideline. Although it is currently disputed, at the moment it doesn't matter whether the article is written in American English or not. Mm40 (talk) 16:20, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In the absence of a rule written in stone, by Moses or others, I follow the MLA guidelines. And it does matter whether an article is in American or British English--it certainly matters in terms of spelling (honor/honour), so it should stand to reason that it would do here also. BE tends to leave punctuation outside the quotation marks. Drmies (talk) 16:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Grammers
This bit- "on essay constructing a guideline" -needs a "tweak" (I might have been the one to mess it up). I liked the age joke, but maybe it's okay to take it out? Sorry about mucking about in your nom statement. I misunderstood the co-nom process. My bad. I see some "to"s and a "that" I want to take out, but I will try to restrain myself. How was your first and second day? MQS and I are discussing a film project that you might be able to fund with your summer haul. All it needs is a script. Life is good! Speaking of which, what's cooking? Best to the girls. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, no worries. Edits were fine; I tweaked a bit more. Hey, I though you were going down Sunset Boulevard tonight with MQS... So--you didn't like my age joke and insert a whole bunch in your own statement? Tsk. First day of class was OK. I'm glad it's over. It's 8 o'clock and I can't seem to get out of my chair to go home. But I'm going now. Holler at you later, Drmies (talk) 01:14, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I did like your age joke. I'm not the one who took it out. I said "but maybe it's okay to take it out" giving you room to be a wuss. Humor never helps at RfA, but it sure makes it exciting! I wanted to put "everyone should vote at least once" in a nom, but now you see I've had to qualify it so nobody gets their knockers knickered. I invited MQS out on the town, but he claims he's working. His loss yo. I just rented a Substandard for the WHOLE weekend and I'm going to be rolling like a serious G!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 04:45, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You rented a what? I am watching the national spelling bee, four left. It's hardcore.--kelapstick (talk) 04:57, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Aw I don't care--our Alabama student went out after "anodyne." Why rent a Substandard? Don't you own a Suburban? And I did appreciate your vote joke--vote early, vote often. Yes, I took out my own joke. I hate doing that. Last time I did, I had to rewrite 2/3 of my dissertation. Drmies (talk) 05:06, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * MQS and I aren't rich like you Doc, with your Plantaion (style) house in the burbs and your three car garage. We're just trying to survive out here in the hood living one day at a time. You need to listen when that guy sings about it being "hard out here for a pimp." Truer words have never been spoken.
 * Speaking of which, here's where I'll be Sat. . The La Brea tar pits (a.k.a. Page Museum it's called now I guess) too. And a bunch of galleries. Looks like there's going to be food and music too.
 * And am I allowed to bait the K man with a templated warning saying "please stop vandalizing the anal wart article"? Is it okay if I start making off the wall posts to his talk page to make life exciting for him? Is that kind of thing funny in Canada? What's the worst that could happen, right? There's a great Canadian Shake 'n Bake ad I added to the article I want to show him once all the excitement is over. Classic. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:41, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * DUDE THAT'S DISGUSTING! THERE'S PICTURES! I'm not talking to you anymore until I receive an apology, on a note attached to three dozen lilies. Drmies (talk) 05:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I know right? Talk about offensive. Those are NOT mild cases. I went to see what it linked to also when I thought of the idea. And just think if it were posted somewhere and became part of a controversial discussion how many people would look to see the page only to get a nasty surprise. AHAHAHAHa. Oh well. I guess it's not a great idea, and I still feel sick from the quick glimpse that scarred my eyes before I could close the window. But I mean, isn't there a saying about curious cats or something like that? ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Sawed vs Sawn
No worries! It's hard to keep up with all the edits and who's who on some of the pages. This is just a particularly complicated one because so few of the contributing editors seem to have any idea what they're talking about. ;) Commander Zulu (talk) 01:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK
I put up the BC2009 hooks at DYK under May 27. I was hoping someone else was going to do it but... well... :) Given your extensive expertise at nomming *cough*, I was hoping you'd have a look and fix up anything that looks off. I didn't include anyone except the creator/ expander, but if it's still allowed to include substantial contributors/ editors feel free to adjust. More photos would be cool too. I hope I didn't mess up anything too badly. At one point the entire DYK page ended at the peanut butter banana and bacon sandwich, but Wikipedia appears to still be functioning post my formatting work... I'm going to go pick up my Ferrari from the rental place. So I'll yap at you later. Have a fantastic weekend. And stay out of trouble. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:52, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The name of that article link is making me nervous, after our recent peek into the horros of WikiHell. But I'll have a look when I get a chance! Thanks for thinking of me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:15, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about using "besides" in place of "as well as". I think that's considered a colloquialism. "In addition to" seems okay though. At least you didn't try to add a bunch of semicolons. But otherwise I liked the changes and appreciate your help. Gracias senyor. Adding another of Bacon's bacon type sayings to the article and the hook might be cool. But the main hook is fine. Okay, NOW I'm off to pick up the Lamborghini ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Complimentary double upgrade to "Intermediate". I'm rolling in a high perforamance Dodge Caliber (they were out of the cheapo car type I reserved apparently). It's not as big a status symbol as your Ford Excursion, but I lead a humble life, so I'm happy to be rolling in a silver colored chick magnet (even without my buddy MQS who has better things to do, apparently, than hang out with me). I noticed all the car designs these days have very narrow windows. It's hard to see out, especially from the sides and back. But I guess it looks cool, and that's the important thing. Booyah. Oh and I took a picture of some turkey bacon at the market, but to get something classy and encyclopedic I would have had to buy the stuff, and there ain't no way... ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:24, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You the man, ChildofMidnight! I don't understand what's wrong with MQS that he would pass up on a ride and a night like that. I mean, rolling through LA looking at turkey bacon? That's hot. I wouldn't know about windows and modern cars and all. I drive a Camry. It's huge! Better yet, I got a big fat Sony stereo in it. Hey, get back to enjoying the night while you can. It's real nice here--it took some effort to convince our oldest that she couldn't sleep outside in the tent tonight. Later, Drmies (talk) 02:54, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Does it at least have spinners and monster bass speakers in the trunk? I didn't get the memo about Google Books. What's the issue? Can you add the cite about Elvis eating 286 PBBB sandwiches in one sitting? It's clearly a joke, but so much the better for the Elvis legend (and of course the book it's from doesn't actually say its a joke, and we can't rely on OR)! ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Daeg Faerch "vandalism"
I just thought I'd let you know that a certain IP address that frequently edits the Daeg Faerch article, is Daeg himself. His edits are not vandalism... why would he vandalize his own page? This has been discussed before.

As for the other IP, I don't know who it is, but I'd call his edits vandalism. I think we should just let Daeg edit the article however he wants and not challenge his edits. PF4Eva (talk) 22:35, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's not how an encyclopedia works. If he edits the article himself, there's a conflict of interest and he should disclose that. If he butchers the article, or adds or deletes information, that's not OK. (That IP just added a bunch of unverified information, praise of sorts, without verification, and I've removed it. WP is not a fansite.) There is a recourse for such matters, and it's covered in WP:BLP. But barring such recourse, the removal of sourced information is vandalism. Of course, I could take your word for it that that IP is him, but a. I don't know who you are and b. I have not much reason to believe you even if I did know who you were. Besides, these films removed by the IP are in fact available, many of them through Amazon. Drmies (talk) 22:49, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have not even looked at the article in question. I'm just butting in here to mention that Autobiography is also relevant to the situation you all are describing. Lady of Shalott 18:19, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, dear lady. Do have a look, if you will. Cyberghostface, below, has also weighed in, since I asked him for advice. If that IP would identify himself as Mr. Faerch, that would be a different matter--and WP:biography might actually make it worse, throwing COI in the mix explicitly. For now, I really don't have much reason to treat it as anything but vandalism, and I will, since I'm tired of cleaning up. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 18:54, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Leaving the building...
I hadn't meant to put in the word "biography". I think I was tired. Anyway, this is the cookbook that I believe the other editor is referring to in saying it doesn't mention bacon in the PBBS. It might be nice to mention it in the article to appease them, and to indicate there may be some question about whether bacon included. But I suppose it can be discussed on the article talk page or with the user who was unhappy about the incorporation of the Elvis Sandwich into the PBBBS (two editors I think). As I told the K-man, I think there's some cause for caution and it's best not to present legend as fact, although there is a source that clearly says bacon was part of sandwich. I don't trust it because it doesn't even go with a consistent sliced or mashed banana. Does this make it dubious or am I reading too much into it? When you make your PBBBS do you mash or slice? Does it depend on the ripeness of the banana? Would you ever include honey? I am sooooo tired. G'night!!! ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:50, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Daeg Faerch
That IP is Daeg himself, actually. Its gone now, but he left me a message on his official MySpace when I was removing the stuff about him being in the Halloween sequel after Rob Zombie took him off. So its not intentional vandalism/disruption, at the very least. That being said, he is adding a bit of unsourced and trivial stuff, and it is getting to be a hassle, so maybe one of us should report him next time he does it? At this point, maybe it would be best if he was prevented from editing the article and cleaning it up from there.--CyberGhostface (talk) 18:29, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your note. I'm thinking the same thing. Note also the Lady of Shalott weighing in, up a few blocks on this talk page, who made a useful reference to WP:Autobiography. Let's see how this develops. Drmies (talk) 18:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Reply
Thanks. As you might have noticed I had an impersonator on another Wiki. And my user page vandalism count is up to 20! I must be doing something right.-- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  01:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

All over
Hey Doc, sorry to let you down but I think we will all agree that withdrawing the nom was the best course of action at the time. Looks like I have some work ahead of me but at least I won't be bored. Probably talk to you Monday. I'm going to grab a beer, cheers. --kelapstick (talk) 05:08, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've responded on your talk page. I'm having a drink too. Thanks for the note, and I'll see you here when I see you? Enjoy your Sunday with the family. Drmies (talk) 05:42, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Drmies. I hope you don't mind me asking but do you two and CoM know each other off-wiki. Just curious.-- The Legendary   Sky Attacker  05:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * We used to date. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm really trying to forget that ever happened. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Great News!!!
I took lots of photos so you and MQS can see what you missed and live vicariously through my adventures. Many of the photos are intended to be encyclopedic, of course, so they don't capture the true drama and excitement of my Art Walk experiences. I will try to upload them to Flickr if I can make room on my PC.

I hit the Miracle Mile and West Hollywood. I think I got hit on twice. Once by a woman and once in West Hollywood. Rock on brother. Nice job on your noms. Thanks for leading the charge on that. Mad respect. ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:57, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

RE: Kelapstick
I noticed your post on Kelapstick's talk page. In the case of the two articles in question, the larger issues are the copyright violations, which is an official Wikipedia policy. By the way, plagiarism is more than just about failing to give proper citations. Plagiarism includes the passing off of others' wording as original. So from the WP guideline on plagiarism: "Plagiarized content can include facts, wording [emphasis mine], ideas, and structure. Even if a source is cited, plagiarism also occurs when text is directly copied without proper attribution." Citations provide proper attribution for when the thoughts and ideas for the text comes from somewhere else. Quotation marks provide proper attribution for when the wording of the text comes from somewhere else. In the two articles that I highlighted, the scant modifications to the source text and the presentation of them without quotation marks represent both a coypright violation (the sources were all copyrighted) and plagiarism (the wording was not properly attributed). Was that helpful? Budding Journalist 06:18, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The bits you're highlighting don't seem to apply. This wasn't a case of presenting someone elses information as original. This wasn't a case of failing to attribute.
 * If something is cited, I don't see how if can be argued it's being passed off as original (which is one half of the Original Research phrasing by the way). I think we are unlikely to resolve this issue tonight. But I think taking bits here and there, and paraphrasing is okay. Taking whole sentences is troubling, and taking paragraphs is unacceptable. The "three word rule" is unrealistic, but a nice suggestion. That's my two cents anyway. I didn't see anything that amounts to a copyright violation, and the plagarism if there is any, is a murky grey area, but trying to stay clearly in the appropriate is certainly ideal and some of the content used was too close for comfort. That's my opinion right now, and I reserve the right to change it. I think picking 10 recent RfAs and looking into them as far as this issue is concerned would be... revealing. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:51, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm? I think we're talking past each other here. Proper attribution means: a) citing sources when the ideas are not one's own b) using quotation marks when the wording is not one's own. The cases I pointed out fall under b) and are thus a failure to achieve proper attribution. I don't really understand what this three word rule you're referring to is. "I didn't see anything that amounts to a copyright violation" <-- That's an important issue then. I think you might change your mind if you read the two articles and compare them to the sources. Budding Journalist 07:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Let's remember that writing encyclopedia articles on Wikipedia is NOT journalism. We're not conducting interviews and writing research papers. I think this issue is far from resolved. And the more I dig into it, the muddier it seems to get. It's not okay to quote something if the original wording isn't used, and if something is cited, by definition it is attributed. I think it's more a question of how much is okay to use even with attribution. ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:07, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoa, wait a minute. I didn't say one should use quotation marks if the original wording isn't used. The problem here is that the original wording was used for large spans of wording (with some minor tweaks here and there) and no quotation marks were used. That's the issue. Again, if you read the articles in question and compare against the sources, you'll see the problem and why quotation marks were needed. "if something is cited, by definition it is attributed" Eek. This is one of the most common mistakes when talking about plagiarism. Again, there are two things at play here: ideas and wording. Attributing wording when it is not your own is just as important as attributing ideas. Citations are not adequate when reusing wording. Quotation marks are necessary. If you're not using quotation marks when reusing wording, then you are not providing proper attribution. So the question here isn't "how much is okay to use even with attribution"...there was no proper attribution.
 * This isn't something that's only applicable to journalism or academia (I'd consider Wikipedia largely an exercise in academic writing though). It applies in any form of writing. Budding Journalist 07:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, see here and our very own dispatch article. Budding Journalist 07:34, 31 May 2009 (UTC) And see this Google search for more helpful examples of what I'm trying to communicate: that even with a citation, not using quotation marks when copying wording is still plagiarism. BuddingJournalist (talk) 07:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * (formerly BuddingJournalist) This conversation spurred me into penning an essay to capture my thoughts on the issue: User:TwilligToves/On Plagiarism. Comments/criticisms welcome. By the way, my apologies Drmies for hijacking your talk page. TwilligToves (talk) 09:37, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry if I appear a bit short or callous, but I really am not in the mood right now. I just want to say this: your Signpost says this, "Unfortunately, there is no hard and fast rule for how much revision is necessary to avoid plagiarizing." Yet some editors at K-stick's RfA yelled loudly that he had broken rules they suggest were well-known and written in stone (and note that the first one to oppose on grounds of plagiarism, Ottava Rima, changed their mind and their vote later). Well, the MLA says nothing. WP:Plagiarism says nothing. At best, as I have argued, we have improper paraphrasing, and to create a whole bunch of drama at someone's RfA; to say that they don't know the guidelines when the guidelines are admittedly vague or, really, missing (as in the case of WP:Plagiarism); to torpedo an RfA by slapping Copyvio templates on articles where any editor, any editor, could have fixed a perceived problem by inserting a few quotation marks or paraphrasing a word or two, well, that's just beyond my understanding. No need to apologize for hijacking my talk page--though as you can tell, I feel that you have some explaining to do on other issues. (Yes, I did read your explanation above, and I understand your reading of plagiarism, and I don't agree with the conclusions you drew from that interpretation.) If editors are expected to know all this, it should be clearly spelled out in WP:Plagiarism, so that they don't have to dig it out from Google searches, Signposts, or Hacker's guide--or learn it at their RfA. It's the rhetorical heights the RfA debate was taken to that really bother me, besides the lack of clear policy. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Regardless of the merits, the place and manner of addressing these concerns was, in my view, inappropriate, disruptive, and overly dramatic. Bongo  matic  16:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)


 * The copyright problems with the two articles I pointed out were systemic and went beyond just being able to fix it with a few quotation marks or paraphrasing a word or two! The majority of the entire text on both articles were almost word for word exact matches against the sources (which were copyrighted). Perhaps I did not make this clear? Regardless of your thoughts on plagiarism, it's rather clear that this is a copyright violation. Do you really think I was just trying to find some of way of torpedoing an RfA? That's hurtful and disingenuous. The point of using those Copyvio templates was that the articles had severe copyright problems; I found these problems in doing research for the RfA, but that's the only connection between the two. To say that I'm using these copyvio templates in some nefarious fashion...well...you might want to assume some good faith here.
 * Bongo, how exactly was using the copyvio templates "inappropriate, disruptive, and overly dramatic"? Did you take a look at the severity of the issue by comparing the sources to those two articles in question? TwilligToves (talk) 17:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I wasn't referring to the copyvio templates, but to the commentary and opinion offering at RfA. Bongo  matic  02:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I was referring to the copyvio templates, as well as to all the commentary. What you say here, that the articles (I looked very closely at one of them and made what I would call editorial changes, which anyone could have made) were "almost word for word exact matches" is a bit of an exaggeration, to put it mildly. Those were not severe copyright issues; they were paraphrase problems at the most. Calling that plagiarism, and doing so in a time and a place that would pretty much destroy any editor's confidence, faith in the project, and reputation is, well, not nice. And don't get me wrong, I assume plenty of good faith. I just don't believe that your actions here were either necessary or in the best interest of the pedia. There were plenty of things you could have done--and one of them was to have made sure, at some earlier point in time, that the plagiarism policy was clear. It is not. It is vague, terribly vague, and to claim otherwise is evidence of a blindness (and I've compared all those passages, and I've read my De Man). But I also am done here with this discussion. The harm has been done; what could have been handled in many different ways, in more diplomatic, useful, and just ways (I will give credit to Ottava Rima here, for instance), instead became a hatchet job. I'm sick of it, and I'm sorry that I ever proposed to such a sincere and yes, ethical editor that he run for office, opening him up to this environment. Drmies (talk) 03:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, Budding Journalist, I understand you take objection to my words--well, I take objection to your actions. But I think I made that clear already. Maybe my words hurt your feelings, but your actions made someone with great promise and much dedication to the project withdraw from an RfA. Drmies (talk) 03:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

←Actually, I was referring to Ottava Rima's approach, to raise the issues by opposing the RfA instead of either asking a question in the RfA or addressing it directly with the editor first. Bongo matic  03:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey Bongo, I didn't think that very kosher myself, but I was trying to be mildly appreciative of Rima's actions afterward--they changed from oppose to neutral, and seemed to be more understanding and less rigorous in what is, as everyone will readily admit, a gray area (not plagiarism, but paraphrase and ownership of phrases and words). So the final vote was 48 to 8, and the nays have it. Pfff. K-stick did the right thing, I guess; I couldn't have kept my composure. OK, I guess it's time to archive my talk page and try and forget about the whole thing. Drmies (talk) 03:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Kstick did the drama-avoiding thing (as expected&mdash;see my comment on his temperament), which in the process deprived the community of a valuable admin. Had OR's and BJ/TT's approaches been less inflammatory, Kstick could have had the opportunity to address the issue in a way that avoided this regrettable outcome. Bongo  matic  04:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)