User talk:Dronkle/Archives/2010/February

Thanks for your opinion
The result of the discussion on "Category:Musicians who have served in the military" was "delete, which I'm fine with and am at work on a list. Thank you for your opinion.--Abie the Fish Peddler (talk) 09:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Re: DYK picture tweek needed
Thanks, there are plenty of pictures of him about so it wasn't too difficult! mattbr 14:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Volkstag
Hi, thanks for your help. I know it's not "perfect" to use exclusively German language sources, I'll try to improve the references. Concerning The Tin Drum, I'm not sure whether Grass wanted to portray a single person or just a "typical Nazi", but Albert Forster and Arthur Greiser for sure influenced this figure. HerkusMonte (talk) 14:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Re:Welcome and quick suggestion
Thanks Peter for the helpful suggestions. I wasn't sure what to call the  process. Now that I know the propper term is 'wiki-link' I will be sure to include that in any similar edit summaries. Are you a classical music fan as well? If so perhaps you might be able to point me to a place where I can find some info about Bernard Holland. The New York Times doesn't have a bio on him and no internet searches have led me to anything illuminating. Likewise google books has yielded nothing. His name obviously pops up often in publications, but people are almost always quoting him and not talking about him in a biographical way. I'd appriciate any pointers you might have. Thanks.4meter4 (talk) 00:19, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Rheingau Musik Festival
Hallo Peter, thanks first for the lady who didn't want to be the daughter ... (so that everybody knows she is). I read about your programme books. I have many programs of the RMF and started an article User:Gerda Arendt/Rheingau Musik Festival that you are invited to preview. Questions: I didn't find more sources in English, and the ones I found are wrong, smile, simple example: the number of concerts in the first season is given as 18 but I have the original program that shows 19, - not an important fact, but how would I defend my personal knowledge in a wiki-world asking for inline citations? Question 2: how to select some more representative artists from hundreds of possible ones? I started with some names in an English reference. How about those in my programs only? Thanks for a visit in the lovely Rheingau! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks to your encouragement, I expanded a bit and moved to Rheingau Musik Festival. The missing composers are not in my files (we were out of the country then) but I asked to find out. I didn't want to wait for answers, though. On the way I found surprising things in Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau. Some I changed. I don't like two statements in the introduction (I wouldn't mind so much later in the article), quote: "recorded (with mixed success)..." (what does success mean? who judges?) and the "even ..." in "His stage-personality was invariably insightful and refined, even when he played stupid, innocent or childish characters such as Papageno, Gunther, or Fritz Kothner the baker (in Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg)." Papageno is not stupid, Gunther not innocent ... What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Kothner - you got exactly what the dots stood for! What can we do? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Much better! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:20, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Much better again, DYK and Englishing, thank you! What I wanted to achieve was a picture of the abstract "cultural heritage" and "inspiring landscape" in some profile. The facts about Kiedrich, Brahms and Wagner are found in the articles linked, - and not so well known. Brahms visited the family of one of the founders of RMF, and when he was born Hindemith composed a piece (music lost unfortunately, just an entry in their guestbook left), - tradition like that. If you think it's too much let's drop Wagner. Do you know the Heinrich Heine saying: If I was able to move a mountain it would be the Johannisberg I wanted to move.? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:04, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Volkstag
Hi, thanks for your help. I know it's not "perfect" to use exclusively German language sources, I'll try to improve the references. Concerning The Tin Drum, I'm not sure whether Grass wanted to portray a single person or just a "typical Nazi", but Albert Forster and Arthur Greiser for sure influenced this figure. HerkusMonte (talk) 14:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Re:Welcome and quick suggestion
Thanks Peter for the helpful suggestions. I wasn't sure what to call the  process. Now that I know the propper term is 'wiki-link' I will be sure to include that in any similar edit summaries. Are you a classical music fan as well? If so perhaps you might be able to point me to a place where I can find some info about Bernard Holland. The New York Times doesn't have a bio on him and no internet searches have led me to anything illuminating. Likewise google books has yielded nothing. His name obviously pops up often in publications, but people are almost always quoting him and not talking about him in a biographical way. I'd appriciate any pointers you might have. Thanks.4meter4 (talk) 00:19, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Volker David Kirchner
In case you have time would you look at Volker David Kirchner, an article that I found with just cello pieces and the publishers Bio in German ... I don't have any more time today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:15, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for rewording RMF! - I should be less sloppy, what I meant about Schott was that the external link was given in German, - I changed it to English, "Profile". "Chronology" provides more info - but English funnier than my own I would say. I extracted some works and put him on the composers list, but didn't change the bio. - I will try to describe my changes better in the future - not just "minor change", but after the fifth time of changing Gächinger Kantorei Stuttgart (a contradiction in terms, Gächingen being a town) to Gächinger Kantorei I got tired ... - as I am now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:23, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Hans Otto & Ursula Jung
These generous RMF-founders can now be met in Rüdesheim am Rhein. He is the one Hindemith composed a rag (!) for when he was born, a performing jazz pianist and viola player, ... she wrote almost 100 interesting pages, - once I have time (well ...) I may consider an article on Villa Sturm, also called "The White House on the Rhine" (pictured in Rüdesheim). (I attended her funeral in 2005 but couldn't find a date of birth yet. They used to sit with the Princess of Metternich on the front balcony for concerts in Johannisberg. She is probably not really a "daughter of the town" but I would not like to separate them who always seemed inseparable.) But first I'll collect more on RMF's composers. A question: which category would fit Eberbach Abbey as a historic building? I only found "places of worship" - not true for centuries already, unless music as The Creation is considered worship in a broad sense, an idea appealing to me. - Other: I was ready to move Dr. Hoch's to "Conservatorium" - but realized with some melancholy that after having preserved the name from the times when Clara Schumann taught there, it must have changed rather recently to conformity. - One more: I recommended (some time ago) your short link between opera role and opera to the Germans, Max und Froh. For a lesser known opera such as Anna Bolena I would include the opera, though, and the (later) MET soprano, smile. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:03, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * For Ridderbusch, back to January. R sang Henry VIII in A.B. with Teresa Zylis-Gara who later sang at the MET. - My new playground (quite literally): Játékok of György Kurtág - both articles to be improved, would you help? Some remarks now in "Performance" should rather be stated before, in a (so far missing) description of the work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:32, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Please just have a look at the two - knowledge is not needed, rather referencing and formatting, I would say. I found one link dead (EMB), that I revived (works), and added one, UE, bio and works. Of course I don't know where the prose of the article comes from, but would like to see that "citation needed-tag" go. I also wonder if the description of playing Játékok should rather be part of that article. What do you think? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:40, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Most of the above taken care of by helpful hands. More good news: got the RMF composers list complete yesterday - as you wished. Next problem there: Mauricio Kagel, lacking citation. I copied his works and writings from de-WP to my sandbox, willing to translate some. Are you familiar with the topic and could perhaps mark important ones, - seems too many otherwise? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:37, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Bayreuth canon copy-edit
Too late for it now, I'm afraid. Definitely tomorrow, though. Best. --GuillaumeTell 02:04, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * All now fixed (inc the nationality!) as far as I'm concerned. Good luck! --GuillaumeTell 22:31, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! --GuillaumeTell 17:17, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hallo Peter, I would include in your admirable work that Wagner called the Ring Bühnenfestspiel (mit einem Vorabend). Think twice before using the term opera at all in this context. The additional "weih" of Parsifal gives the term quasi-religious connotations - Holy grail. (I don't believe it's the stage that is consecrated.) Lohengrin, Tannhäuser: "Romantische Oper", Tristan: simply "in drei Aufzügen", Meistersinger: Oper (finally). - To mention how difficult it is to get tickets for B is perhaps besides the topic. - Aficionados? How about Verehrer, devotees. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:42, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * German equivalent for Bayreuth canon? I wonder if we have one. Festspielhaus - Festspiel - that's about it. Too simple? - Tetralogie is sometimes also used to describe the Ring. - We were lucky twice to get tickets, - knowing someone who knew Boulez helped. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:05, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * As I guessed: this writer calls it "sämtliche in Bayreuth ...", someone else would not use Opern, - we seem not to have one simple term. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Latest Ring for today --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:34, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Purcell
Good luck with Pinnock and Bayreuth! Purcell, I'm afraid, was not celebrated by RMF (who may have thought three was enough) but home, for your enjoyment. Still smiling about your wording: "in more recent times" - referring to Brahms and Wagner. I would like to see an article on Britten's The Company of Heaven some day ... - too bad, only 3 links including this one. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:07, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Bayreuth canon Featured list
Well, at long last, congratulations! FLC is clearly a more leisurely process than FAC but perhaps the wait made it more worthwhile. A long time ago I created List of works for the stage by Wagner but never submitted it. Maybe I should? Too busy for the moment, though. Brianboulton (talk) 01:03, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Noleander redux
Hi Peter,

I've opened a thread about User:Noleander on AN/I. As you opened the previous thread regarding him, I though you might be interested. You'll find it here: Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Cheers! Jayjg (talk) 18:52, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikivoices
Hi Peter, the podcasts I mentioned are at Wikivoices.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  22:25, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Parsifal
I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found some concerns with the referencing which you can see at Talk:Parsifal/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:06, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No problems - I will extend the hold to two weeks - as long as someone is addressing the problems, that is fine. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:21, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Re: Qedarite GA fix delay
Ah, thanks. I hadn't seen that. I'll take a look and see what I can do.

--Mcorazao (talk) 15:10, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Operas by language
Hi Peter. I have a question about the Category:Operas by language. I just created an article on Menotti's The Last Savage. In this case the composer wrote the original libretto in Italian, but the opera premiered in French. To make matters more complicated, this opera has been mounted only four times, twice in English and once each in Italian and French. So what categories should I use for this opera? Thanks for your help.4meter4 (talk) 03:10, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

CTM scope review
Following on from this discussion, I have started to review the scope of WP:CTM's coverage on WP. There are two main possiblilies, so far:


 * 1) We refine our scope according to the "written in the last 50 years or so" statement agreed upon a few months back and included in the Overview - Scope section on the main page.
 * 2) We redefine our scope to include only living people and their works (while retaining the other relevent articles such as contemporary classical music etc).

The former position was agreed by consensus, of course, so redefining our scope to the latter position is a radical shift that needs full discussion and consensus. In essence, the question of redefining arises from the recent mass sourcing drama:
 * 1) It has been suggested that CTM take full responsibility for all composer BLPs.
 * 2) If that goes ahead, WPComposers may wish to unbanner composer BLPs and leave them to CTM (see here for example).
 * 3) Therefore, CTM simply focusses in on those people relevent to our project but not bannered by other projects eg composers with BLPs.
 * 4) Other articles on people are then treated in a similar way ie we would then cover BLPs only and their related articles (plus any other contemporary-music-related articles, as appropriate).

The full review and discussion is found at: WikiProject Contemporary music/Scope.

I am also looking more generally at our project's focus, especially as regards the notability criteria etc: User:Jubileeclipman/CTM. Thoughts on that are also most welcome!

Thank you --Jubilee♫ clipman 13:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

4 skeletons
I agree that they probably would not have been able to make a case. One thing you could suggest to them next time is to move the article into their userspace until it's ready for the mainspace. If they'd like, I'd be happy to undelete it and move it to their userspace so they could continue to work on it. - Philippe 00:12, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Re: Trevor Pinnock
Responded on the GA page. Short answer: yeah the date's flexible. I'm more concerned with the article being nice than with ratings. Wizardman Operation Big Bear 19:05, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Congratulations to GA! I Just had another DYK approved (for expanding) that you may want to check out if you have a bit of time, Polish Requiem. The classical music forum was really helpful, thanks for pointing me there. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:51, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

WP:CTM guidelines regarding infoboxes
In the wake of the proceedings at the Composers project, I am reviewing CTM's guidelines regarding infoboxes: at present we simply follow all the other CM-projects on this issue. I propose that we simply leave it to editors to use common sense and avoid policy-violations. Thoughts welcome at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Contemporary_music. Thank you. (This is just a courtesy message: I have now contacted all the other members listed in the "active" section) --Jubilee♫ clipman  23:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Chopin
Peter, Merci. --Frania W. (talk) 00:07, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Israel Palestine Collaboration
Do you like the new page I've created at WP:IPCOLL? Any other ideas for articles to add? -- AFriedman  (talk)  23:15, 26 February 2010 (UTC)