User talk:Dudemanfellabra/Archive 2

Notable non-cabinet positions
Respectfully, I would like to suggest a revert of your recent edit from "positions" to "appointments" and the removal of the Directors of the FBI and FDIC. At all times but particularly in the current post-9/11 and mid-recession atmosphere, both of these positions are likely to prove significant to the "Presidency of Barack Obama." I may be wrong about these particular jobs, but don't they serve at the pleasure of the president? In other words, had he had a compelling preference for someone else, he might have managed to obtain a resignation? Even if that's not so, while I did not add these names (I did just edit them), I would submit that they bear mentioning as being significant among the team that Obama's administration is working with during these challenging times, with the qualifier that existed indicating they are holdovers from a previous administration due to term length. Abrazame (talk) 04:14, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I could potentially support reverting my edit; I just didn't like that the term lengths were mentioned for those people and not for everyone else. Frankly, I don't think the term lengths are that important. If we added them back and changed "appointments" back to "positions," how about adding a ref tag on every "holdover" position, explaining that Obama didn't choose that person? --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:36, 2 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. For me, the only value of the mention of the term lengths is to indicate both that they are holdovers and how many years remain in their terms (neither of which was explicit as it stood without also adding the year they assumed the office). We could note in text immediately above the list something like "Appointees serve at the pleasure of the president except as noted", with superscript beside the two with set terms, who also happen to be holdovers, and mention that in small-text footnotes immediately below the list, such as "Appointed by George W. Bush in 2006 to a five-year term" . Abrazame (talk) 00:27, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Confirmations Of Barack Obama's Cabinet
Sorry for getting testy, i've just invested alot of time in that article and want to see it get up to FA status. As i've never gotten an article up to that level before, i'm greatful for your advice on how to proceed towards the goal. Spinach Monster (talk) 02:38, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Template:Obama cabinet infobox (again)
Would you mind adding Christina Romer as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers? Therequiembellishere (talk) 02:43, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not a cabinet or cabinet-level post.. so no. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 02:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. Therequiembellishere (talk) 20:50, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, the last time I looked at that, Drug Czar was on there and the CEA wasn't.. I've raised a question over at Talk:Presidency of Barack Obama. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 21:09, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was wondering about whether they were waiting for a nomination first. Therequiembellishere (talk) 04:57, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd Like An Apology For This Edit Summary
. You and I can disagree, but there's no need to step over the line. After I get rid of the rest of the names and put all of the refs into the cite news format, I just wanted to let you know i'll be removing the cleanup tag.

P.S -- Ronald Reagan is featured and is well over 100 kb. Spinach Monster (talk) 01:42, 6 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I admit I crossed the line a bit and wrongly attacked you. I just feel like you're really too focused on quantity (as I've said before). Having a million edits doesn't really say anything about you other than you fix spelling errors and take 20 edits to do something that could have been done in 1. I realize that sometimes it's good to split up edits for easy reversion, and sometimes I put too many together at once, but taking a separate edit for every single name is a bit much in my opinion. I'll try to tone the sarcasm down in the future, but I stick by the quality over quantity thing. It's better to make 5 edits that change the structure of the entire page than take 500 edits just to fix grammar/spelling/formatting errors in a single section.


 * I'm fine with removing the cleanup tag, but I think there are a few more things that need to be done to the article. As I mentioned on the talk page, I think the amount of 1 and 2 sentence paragraphs is excessive, and many of them should be combined for better flow and structure. Also, the quotes from all the senators is a bit much; the article doesn't need every single senator's point of few. Unless you can talk more about the remarks (make them lead into a larger discussion of the content within them), they probably shouldn't be added. I would pick no more than one or two senator's remarks on the opposing side and the same with the supporting side.


 * Also, about the 100k thing. While it's not a requirement for an article to be under 100k to be an FA, it's a good rule of thumb by which to go. I suggest looking over the page I linked to just then and trying to make the article reflect that. You may even want to put it up for a peer review.


 * Sorry about the attacks, but I'm only trying to help you. I assure you I'm not trying to demonize you or demean you; I'm simply trying to get you to see the quality side of editing – not just the quality. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 02:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No worries. The multiple edits aren't a conscious thing. It's just my style. And I have no problem with whatever I can do to get that article to FA status, and i'd be happy to take whatever advice you have on how to do that. We can still trim a little here and there, but I doubt the article would be much more than a skeleton if it were smaller than 50k. Somewhere around 80 would be alright, a split isn't recommended below 100. Spinach Monster (talk) 03:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I am not that interested to look further, but if this is just about Dudeman's edit summary in the diff that Spinach Monster provides to lead this off, I don't think anyone should be taking offense or demanding or giving apologies here. The edit summary there was "(Remove names for TOC; look at how much I did in one edit! I didn't take 5,000!)".  It seems kind of humorously put, both in how it is like a little kid saying Look ma, no hands, and it uses exclamation marks.  I interpret those exclamation marks as smiley faces.  But perhaps there is other history going on, and humor is hard to get across, sometimes hard to distinguish vs. sarcasm.  Maybe explicit smiley faces, too, would help.  Outright sarcasm should be avoided, IMHO, as tends to cause too many misunderstandings.  That's my 2 cents, anyhow. doncram (talk) 17:46, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

various
I think i'd like to nominate you to admin, so that you can be even more effective with your good work on the high-profile NRHP infobox, and for other reasons. I also really like the work u did on Meridian, Mississippi, though I am not familiar with all that u do / have done in wikipedia. You might watch / browse at wp:RFA, and get back to me if u r interested, perhaps by email (enabled for me, there's an email-to-me box at my userpage).

About another infobox, I wonder if you could comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Protected_areas. User:Droll asked me at my talk page to comment there, and i will, but I think u would have more perspective technically. I wonder if there is applicability from that back to the NRHP infobox in any way, too. doncram (talk) 17:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Meh, about the adminship, I don't think I'd really like to be an admin. I think it'd be nice to be able to edit fully protected pages and all, and a few of the tools sound like they would be pretty neat, but the bulk of being an administrator seems like its handling disputes between people and/or mediating an argument. I'm not really one to do that (I try to avoid conflict when possible.... and have been known to be a bit sarcastic when I do involve myself), so I don't think I'd really like to be one. If there were a position, though, that wasn't quite adminship (i.e. just allowed you to edit fully protected pages and small stuff like that), I'd be all for that. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

RE:Plantilla:Ficha de NRHP
Hi. Let me tell you, we're not as developed as you are, when it comes to templates. This infobox in particular, is used in our wiki by less than 50 articles, so, sincerely, I don't see the point in improving it so much as you have it now, in your wiki. Greetings. --Aibdescalzo (talk) 23:24, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

invitation
You're invited to sign up as a founding member, at WikiProject Council/Proposals ! :) doncram (talk) 05:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's taking off! Almost 20 signed up so far.  I wonder if you can start developing some stuff in a sandbox or two, to go into the WikiProject.  I'd like to keep the wikiproject itself as a redlink for a day or two so that more people could sign up before we start.  Maybe some outline of generic resources of use to help with local historic registers, vs. national level lists, vs. world scale ones like UNESCO heritage sites.  There is List of historical registers article already, can be copied in as a basic resource list.  If you'd like to work ahead with something.  Maybe for launch 48 hours after i talked out invitations, so late evening Monday?  Actually, i don't know how it works to start a wikiproject.  It doesn't matter if u feel inspired to sandbox something beforehand or not.  I have thought about this a lot though, and will have a lot of ideas as this project takes shape.  Thanks for stirring me on about this.  It should be fun!  For the 'ell of it, i created my first non-North America historic site article, Arles Obelisk.  :) doncram (talk) 09:10, 15 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Woh dude.. I was thinking this was going to be like Nationally recognized sites in other countries.. not designates as small as local.. I think we should start out with nationally recognized sites and after they're all done, move down to state/province and local sites, creating separate task forces for each country probably (like WP:NRHP for USA). If we dive in and take it all on at once, we're doomed to failure. I suggest we start out small and build momentum before we try to tackle the millions of local designations out there. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

WP:HSITES
WikiProject Historic Sites is opened up. I took the liberty of assuming your support for the wikiproject meant you wanted to join as a member, and I copied your signature to the Members list on the main page. Please visit and add to, or remove, your listing there. It would be great to hear about what you're interested in the Wikiproject being, in your member comment and/or at the Talk page, shortcut wt:HSITES. Thanks for your support! doncram (talk) 17:21, 18 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, your participation at Template talk:WikiProject Historic sites would be appreciated, whenever you have time. Dtbohrer set up a template, but something seems to be wrong, it doesn't display a California flagicon as intended.  Discussion was first at wt:HSITES but i suggest detailed discussion about template programming problems be at the template talk page. doncram (talk) 18:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I fixed the template to display the flag.. Currently the only accepted parameters are "California," "CAL," "Canada," "CAN," "United-Kingdom," "UK," "World-Heritage-Sites," and "WHS," though. I'll look into the code later to see if I can work something around to make the code look a little better. I personally think it looks horrendous right now haha (no offense to the person who coded it), and I'm pretty sure I can make it a bit more understandable. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 19:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Any idea what was wrong with it? Personally I thought it was working, I decided to remove the parameters that had "task force" in them and just left it with only the state/country name to save some typing (which may have lead Doncram to believe it wasn't working as it should). By the way, yes it was jury-rigged and thrown together, based mostly on WPMILHIST, so I figured it wasn't pretty. Also, about your changes, if more task forces are added, wouldn't the string of  keep becoming longer. --​​ ​​D.B. talk • contribs 20:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the way the code was set up before, ( etc...) made it so that the infobox needed both California=yes and CAL=yes to display the Cali flag. In other words, placing the parameters side by side meant there was an AND function, meaning "If  AND  are set, do this." I changed the code to , which is an OR function, meaning "If  OR  exist, do this." Yes, the string of end brackets will grow longer, but there's no other way (using this method) to do an OR function. Alternatively, there could be one parameter,   that controlled which task force to show, which in my opinion would be a much better way to code the template. I can code an example if you'd like; let me know. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 20:22, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Doncram set a up a testcases page with examples of the template, one of the templates used  and another used only  . I'm pretty sure the flag showed up in both. A "task force" parameter would be easier, but a   would probably be needed just in case an article falls under more than one task force. --​​ ​​D.B. talk • contribs 20:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

infobox nrhp
When ur on, could u pls. comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places? Thanks! doncram (talk) 04:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Category:Infobox nrhp2 nhd calls
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Presidency of Barack Obama
I reverted your last edit to Presidency of Barack Obama. The matter receives significant coverage in the foreign policy section of the article, so your edit summary was incorrect. -- Scjessey (talk) 20:31, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I won't re-revert your edit, but I fail to see where the Prague announcement (or even reducing nuclear arms - besides proliferation in Iran) in the foreign policy section or any other section in the article. I'm fine with leaving it in the header for now, but there needs to be material added to the foreign policy section with sources in order for it to stay.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 20:39, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

quick question NRHP delisted
Hey, the template:infobox NRHP documentation doesn't seem to tell me how to indicate type for a delisted NRHP. (It gives formernhl, formernhs, and other former types, but not regular former.) I am trying to put in the correct code for Idora Park Merry-Go-Round, an apparently delisted carousel, am watching there. Hope you can help. doncram (talk) 07:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't have to specify a type.. just put a date in "delisted=". Even though the property is delisted, it isn't a special "type" like NPS-designated listings. The infobox is set up so that a type isn't needed if it's just a regular site, even if it's a delisted regular site. That's why I didn't like allowing "nrhp_type = nrhp". Adding a date to the deslisted= field will cause the bar to grey out and "Former" to show up. Nothing else is needed. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. Also DtBohrer fixed this one by putting in a delisted=date.  I happen to think that including "nrhp" and a new "formernrhp" as explicit types would be natural and simpler to explain in the documentation.  And would cover the situation if you don't know the delisting date.  In the absence of mentioning those types, I think the documentation would be clearer if it explained, just before describing how to handle NHSs and former NHSs, etc., how to handle regular NRHPs and delisted NRHPs.  No big deal tho.  Thanks. doncram (talk) 21:11, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, if you don't know the delisting date, you probably don't have enough information to know that the property has been delisted. Most delisted properties come with the date of delisting, so that won't be a problem. I'm still opposed to the nrhp input, but I could possibly add a formernrhp one (though it would do nothing without the delisting date). I see your point about the documentation, though. I'll get around to adding it soon.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 21:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Mound Bayou, Mississippi
Hey, Dudeman, good to hear from you. Your photos and work on Meridian have been terrific. Mound Bayou sounds interesting as a project; I'd read about it and Davis Bend, but now can't find some of the references. Saw new ones online in addition to your references, including one about archaeology at Mound Bayou.
 * Thanks also for your suggestion about archiving. I should do that.  Do you have a simple method to recommend?  I was reading the Help page on archiving and it's the kind of instructions that make my brain turn off.--Parkwells (talk) 12:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Archiving
Thanks - your explanation was more direct than on the Help page.--Parkwells (talk) 15:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Done through Dec 2008 - thanks again for the reminder and help!--Parkwells (talk) 17:23, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

indeed
Biloxi Light infobox does look great. :) If working on a general infobox, one feature that would be nice to copy from infobox Protected area is how it allows coords in DMS or decimal format. Thanks! doncram (talk) 18:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You do know that the NRHP infobox allows coords in both formats too, right? Look at the "Coordinates" section of the documentation. I usually use decimal format for places. You can even input decimal format and cause the output to be DMS.. or vice versa. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Excuse the eavesdropping, so to speak. Let me get this straight....somewhere I can just tweak a format to get the coordinates presented the opposite way?  At one point I spent considerable time running through articles on some list or another that had coordinates in two formats overlapping each other up above the infobox, going to some outside site and entering a set of coordinates to see if they matched before getting rid of one of them.  This tweak sounds like it could save considerable time on that kind of checking.  I'll have to look at that template documentation and see if I can make heads or tails out of it! Thanks. :) Lvklock (talk) 20:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha yea.. for an example, if you typed |latitude=32.74846 |longitude=-81.73638 and wanted it to display in DMS format, you could simply add | coord_format = dms... or if you had dms coordinates and wanted to display them in decimal format, you can type |coord_format = dec. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 20:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the examples! Lvklock (talk) 22:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks. Good to know.  I didn't see explanation in the documentation though, so I just tried adding some specific explanation (copying your example here) into Template:Infobox nrhp/doc.  Thanks! doncram (talk) 00:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, i am trying to use the decimal format option for coordinates, but find it is not adding a red dot to the map as intended. Can you take a look at User:Doncram/Richard Neutra House sandbox?  The coordinates are displayed but not the red dot, which per my reading of the documentation should appear.  (P.S. will take good look at your new template and get back to you, later.) doncram (talk) 21:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm, now red dot shows. Never mind, thanks. doncram (talk) 21:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Infobox
Lovely info box for NHRP, could you advise me on making one for State Parks? It really should already exist, and none of the ones that are similar are really applicable. EraserGirl (talk) 21:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, I'm surprised one doesn't exist already. Do you have at least a rough idea for what you want in it? I'll help as much as I can, but I'm currently busy working on another infobox haha (code is at User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox if you care to look). Infoboxes aren't that hard to make once you get the general pattern down. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 21:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * thanks, I wouldn't expect YOU to do it, I DO want to do it myself. I guess what i need is someone to coach me through it. i have read the WP pages on info boxes and i find them just utter gibberish. I wouldn't even know where to put the code. is it like creating a userbox? cause i made some of them before. EraserGirl (talk) 21:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I learned by copying/pasting the code of one infobox and then just kind of playing around with it until I figured out the ins and outs of it. To create one, simply create a page (for this, I would probably use Template:Infobox state park) and copy/paste the code for an infobox in there. Anything in triple brackets { – } is a parameter for the template, which makes it work. Like in Infobox nrhp, is a parameter, and if an editor types |name=Mount Rushmore in the template, "Mount Rushmore" will appear at the top of the page. I suggest playing around with some stuff first and then if you have any trouble with a specific issue, ask me. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Park does exist but it is too general and hence I think pretty useless. So I guess if i added more parameters to it, it can be used for State Parks and still be used as it is. From what i UNDERSTAND regardless of how many parameters you add, it only displays the ones edited. The infoboxes for persons in the WP:BIO project are rather elaborate, but not many fields are in general use. IMHO to be useful the infobox for parks should include times of operation, exact address, entry/parking fees and such like. Would you agree simply adding about a half dozen fields to this template should solve my problem? EraserGirl (talk) 22:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, I wasn't aware of that infobox either. I would definitely just add more parameters to that one instead of making a completely new infobox. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * really dumb question, sometimes WP isn't very forthcoming. have you seen an info box for places that are historic but NOT NRHP? EraserGirl (talk) 23:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not a dumb question. The infobox of which you speak is actually the one I'm working on right now in my sandbox haha. I hope to have it completed within the next week. Wikipedia is in dire need of one. I'm sure when it's finished, you can find it posted over at WP:HSITES, the main project dealing with historic sites (and not just NRHP). --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 23:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Re:Combining nrhp infobox with stations
Well, if the version without the sandbox code works, I'll use it. I was under the impression that the only way I could combine them without the routebox segment knocking the NRHP segment out of whack was to use the sandbox code. DanTD (talk) 13:22, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Help with infoboxes
Hi there! I'm trying to find an infobox to go with a pipeline article I'm working on, but it doesn't appear that one exists. Do you have any advice as to how to go about making one? I'm completely clueless. JKBrooks85 (talk) 12:08, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I can't find an infobox solely for pipelines, but Template:Infobox PNG Road seems like it would work for the pipeline article. It allows you to input a length, a general direction (such as North-South or East-West), and the starting/ending point of the pipeline, along with an image, map, and other info. The infobox is meant just for roads, but it doesn't say the word "road" anywhere on the visible template, so the reader would never know the difference. If you don't want to use that infobox, you could probably edit its code to make it more applicable to pipelines. If you need any help with that, let me know! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks! I'll definitely give that a shot and see what I can come up with. JKBrooks85 (talk) 10:31, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it looks as if it adds the category "Transportation in Papua New Guinea" to the article. I tried some tricks to remove the category, but it looks as if it's embedded in the template. :( JKBrooks85 (talk) 11:25, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah I figured something like that might happen. Why don't you copy the code of the infobox over to a user subpage of yours or something and try to determine where in the code the category is added? Once you find it, you can remove it and even possibly edit the template to further satisfy your needs. Template code is not that complicated if you can understand the syntax (Help:Template is a good place to start looking), but if you need any help, let me know, and I'll try to give you a quick tutorial and/or edit the template for you if you're better at learning by looking at others' work (which is how I learned). --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 11:58, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I figured the next step would be. It just looks incredibly intimidating right now. JKBrooks85 (talk) 12:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I took your advice and came up with something. Can you check it out and see how I did? Any advice would be helpful, especially how to go about incorporating coordinates. Thanks! JKBrooks85 (talk) 00:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wow, great first draft! Normally it takes editors a few days if not weeks to come up with something like this. I hope you don't mind, but I made a few small edits to the template. Namely I:
 * Made all parameters optional so that if certain information (such as the length or start/end) is not known, it will not be displayed.
 * Optimized the code a little bit to take up less space and thus speed up load times.
 * Forced all parameters to show up on the main template page (but not on articles) to show the reader exactly what the infobox is capable of. This included showing a default image and map.
 * Allowed length (which is input in miles) to be shown in both english and metric units using the convert template.
 * I changed the name of the "pipeline_name" parameter to simply "name" for editor convenience.
 * If no name is provided, the infobox defaults to the name of the article.
 * and I added noinclude tags to keep the documentation from showing up on every article on which the infobox is transcluded.
 * I didn't touch the documentation part, though. From personal experience, I've found that writing a thorough documentation independently allows a person to really understand the true workings of a template. I encourage you to look over the changes I made to better understand the template. If you have any questions, just drop me a comment. I would suggest once the code is moved to Template:Infobox Pipeline (or anywhere else you want to move it), that the documentation be moved to a subpage by including "" at the bottom of the page where the noinclude tags are. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 07:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again! I've added a field for coordinates that should work all right (I lifted it directly from Infobox:Dam), and I've moved it over to the page you suggested. Here's hoping it works! JKBrooks85 (talk) 09:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're most welcome :).. And thank you! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 10:01, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

West Commerce Street Historic District (Aberdeen, Mississippi)
Thanks for improving the West Commerce Street Historic District (Aberdeen, Mississippi) article by adding the postcard. You don't seriously dislike my having created this historic district article as a stub, do you? Cheers, doncram (talk) 01:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. I actually found a new site (here) that has postcards/images of tons of sites in Mississippi that are all in public domain, so I've added like 10-15 images today to articles. About the stub thing, I prefer not to create one to two sentence stubs because they don't really tell you anything. Having an article that says "Name is a building in location. It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in year." is not helpful in my opinion. Yes, others may come along and expand the article, but why can't you expand it when you create it? I could have stubbed out the entire List of RHPs in MS if I had wanted to, but before creating an article I make sure that I have at least 3-4 good sources that I can at least get like half a page out of (and normally try to have an image ready too).. I try to at least get the text to the end of the infobox if that's possible. I'm not going to criticize your work or anything because it seems you work very hard to create all these articles; I just work differently than you. You would rather have 100 two-sentence articles, and I would rather have two 100-sentence articles.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 01:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, you misperceive my interest somewhat. I don't go around creating stub articles for sake of creating them.  In fact I argued against one editor doing that for all the NRHPs in MA and RI.  What I want is to make it more feasible for new editors to engage in productively adding to wikipedia.  I think the NRHP list-articles with their tables of mostly red-links (at first) and spaces for photos are great that way.  I would prefer for local editors to be able to pick from that menu, and choose to take a picture and/or collect substantial information to create, say, a start-quality article.  However, there are special cases when I think it helps to create a stub article in advance.  For example, when it has been determined that there is a serious NRIS error, it can help to create the article and record the correct information, so that later the incorrect won't be introduced from the Elkman-based system.  Or for example, to support a disambiguation page.  Look at Commerce Street Historic District disambiguation page, and note my edit summary in creating the MS one:  "NRHP stub to settle Commerce Street Historic District disambig page".  In order for the disambiguation page to be allowed, by MOSDAB guidelines that are rigidly enforced, there must be at least one article created, and I randomly picked the MS one in this case.  You've been adding to disambiguation pages, so I expect you understand that setting up disambiguation pages is an important part of coordinating article-naming in the NRHP list-articles, which in my view is part of helping the new editors.


 * Thanks also for your participating in the CT NRHP HD discussions. It is helpful that you bring and state your different perspective, even where I have disagreed.  It challenges me in a good way.  It certainly just now has been clarifying for me to consider the difference between the example of your and my interactions in MS, vs. the my interactions with Polaron in CT.  I think i've been bogged down in making technical-like complaints, when what matters to me boils down to whether editing behavior is helpful and cooperative and sharing of information and civil in its intent, vs. whether it is confrontational and destructive and withholding of information and uncivil in its intent.  Seriously, thanks.  Thanks also for ur note at my Talk page.  I understand if you want to bow out on the CT NRHPs, but I would also be perfectly happy if you cared to comment further there.  Regards, doncram (talk) 10:14, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

NRHP template
Template updated; let me know if there are any problems, not that I can fix it, but I can revert.  Acroterion  (talk)  02:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I like how Acroterion claims credit for his cleverness about this one, at wt:NRHP. :)

nrhp infobox cleanup
About doing a NRHP Infobox cleanup drive right now, I don't know if u r aware several of us have been working on a secret huge NRHP cleanup campaign that ends v. soon busy recently, and there's actually a lot i have yet to finish myself. It would not be possible to add this additional stuff as a subdrive at the last moment. So, I'd rather let it wait 6 days, then come back to it after that. :) Actually, perhaps the 2 cleanup tasks within this could be done within some new framework of NRHP state coordinators armed with AWB tools, but that would be for a later discussion too.  Anyhow, i can't help on it right now.  Thanks for persisting with the infobox update, though, it is a real improvement to allow the CP stuff to be handled a lot more rigorously! :) doncram (talk) 04:14, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * But, Dude, u r lighting up my watchlist! I guess the drive is on...  Hmm, what do you want?  Can you open a subpage under wp:NRHP with a big list of the articles in the new category.  Then that can be broken into chunks and split up, so u don't have to do it all.  Let me help. doncram (talk) 05:41, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Haha I'm just going through the category and fixing them. When you fix them, they disappear from the category, so it's like a self-updating list. I'm gonna finish all the A articles tonight then take a break, so if you feel compelled to help, you can start with the B's haha. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 05:43, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Turns out most of the articles in the category have the "designated" field instead of the CP problem.. Haha apparently we missed quite a few back when we were doing the switchover. I just finished all the articles beginning with A (and the ones starting with numbers), which got us down to 1,389 left haha. I'm taking a break for the night, but I'll pick back up tomorrow. Later! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, i was thinking the category would stay in place after the change was made, in which case coordination of cleanup would have been more complicated. Okay, so keeping track of which ones had been addressed is not needed.  Hmm, then can we just explain at wt:NRHP?  I'll start a post there, will need your followup / clarifications on what others can do. doncram (talk) 17:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Dude, you were screwing up in your edits though! For example, in Augusta Downtown Historic District, you lost the NHLD designation. All the ones where "designated=" is in place, are NHL or NHLDs! I think you were tired or forgetting or something. Conversation opened at wt:NRHP, please add there. doncram (talk) 17:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No, that one just had HD.. it wasn't NHLD (thought now I see that I should have changed it to NHLD). I didn't change anything on any of them other than "designated" -> "designated_nrhp_type". If they were listed NHL or NHLD, I left them that. If they were listed simply HD, like Augusta Downtown, I left them alone.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:04, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You are forgetting how it used to be done (understandably, as you probably never did it that way yourself). The "designated=" was entirely how NHL status was indicated.  There was no need to have an "nrhp_type = nhl" field.   If designated= is present, it has been indicated by that that the place is an NHL! doncram (talk) 18:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh! See I didn't know that haha.. I came along after that. I'll look out for that now! Thanks! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I responded a bit sharply to your comments at wt:NRHP. I would appreciate if you could tone it down a bit.  Not sure where you are with me right now, this is confusing, what you say here vs. what you have just been saying at wt:NRHP.  I am walking away for a bit, not just because i am a bit worked up, and everything is looking wrong, but also as i have to attend to non-wiki things. doncram (talk) 19:06, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Where I am with you right now is a bit annoyed. I stated my case at WT:NRHP, but I'll state it here again. These errors you keep bringing up are not my doing. I didn't introduce any of these errors. The errors existed before I was there, and I just worked with what was already there. The Augusta article had "nrhp_type=hd", so I assumed it was an HD.. reasonable? I just changed the designated parameter to designated_nrhp_type.... nothing else. I also don't see how simply using the "designated" parameter was enough to show NHL status.. the bar didn't display when designated was set to a date (I edited the code, remember, so I know how the old infobox worked). Even though "designated" was set to a date, there still had to be "nrhp_type=nhl" to show the bar. About the Appomattox case, I simply worked with what was there, not changing anything other than the parameters. Any information that was previously there wasn't changed by me, even if it was wrong.
 * I'm fine with you bringing up these errors and possibly fixing them (although I fixed both of these), but don't accuse me of introducing the errors when they were there long before I ever visited the article.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 19:35, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Sorry about edit conflicts, i'll jump to a different part of alphabet. I thot using AWB, and setting it to skip to only the designated= ones, i would jump ahead of u. doncram (talk) 07:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

NRHP boxes
Hey, just wanted to say I really appreciated the new info boxes. I especially appreciate the ability to embed them in other infobox templates and add local designations. I'm going to keep going through the rest in my little corner of Pittsburgh to help. A couple of minor questions for you. 1) Is there anyway to distinguish properties that are both listed on the National Registry themselves as well as being contributing properties to a registered historic district? Adding a second nrhp type with the contributing property code makes the box headings indistinguishable from a property that is only a contributing property to a historic district as opposed to one that is both.  2) Is there anyway to have a heading/infobox for just local historic designations (without the NRHP header)? Again, thanks for creating the new boxes. I haven't looked around the NRHP corner of wiki in awhile but I found everything to be a huge improvement. CrazyPaco (talk) 22:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That was quick! Both your answers more than adequately addressed my questions. Thank you! CrazyPaco (talk) 22:22, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Oilfield infoboxes
I just proposed to merge Template:Oilfield and Template:Infobox Oil field. Your comments are welcomed here. Beagel (talk) 14:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Meridian TV
I tweaked the columns to fit the current digital age and better organized the information. Hope that the changes fit what you want for the article, otherwise feel free to let me know what else you want :).  Nate  • ( chatter ) 06:20, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Meridian Article
Hi. You asked where I got the references for the newspapers in Meridian. I believe most, if not all, of the information that I got for this article was from the city website, in fact. Not sure if it's still there, but that's the only resource I remember using. Absecon 59 (talk) 02:21, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Carpenter School No. 2
Hello, Carpenter School No. 1 is a recognized National Register of Historic Places and Carpenter School No. 2 is not. See the articles for info for the reason why. Any help you can provide with the info box for No. 2 is appreciated. Something similar to No. 1 is needed, but not having the NRHP in it. Jrcrin001 (talk) 16:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually Carpenter School No. 1 is not on the National Register itself, but it is part of Upriver Residential District. If not for this district, the school wouldn't be on the NRHP either. I just assumed that since you put the NRHP infobox on Carpenter School No. 2 (or whoever did), you knew that it was on the NRHP. After checking Upriver's nomination form, I see that the No. 2 School is, in fact, not a contributing property. Thanks for pointing this out! Also, I changed the coordinates to the correct location (they were showing the No. 1 School before), and I changed the infobox to {{tl|Infobox Historic Site]], which can display designations that aren't part of the NRHP. The school is still a Mississippi Landmark, so that should stay.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:47, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help on the info box! I was not sure of how to convert it and you did an excellent job! Jrcrin001 (talk) 07:15, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

DYKs
Oh, you haven't created DYKs before? By all means go ahead. The requirements are very simple: the article has to be a certain size ( i think it is 1500 characters ), it has to be a new article or to have a new 5X expansion, you have to compose a DYK phrase, the specific assertion of the DYK phrase has to be explicitly sourced in the article. That's about it.

I looked at the Stuckey's Bridge article and think it is fine, for example. It looks to me like it is over 1500 characters, but maybe it is close. The way to count characters is to copy the text over into Word and use the Tools / wordcount feature there. Pictures, infoboxes, explicit quotations, footnotes to be excluded from the character count. Spaces count.

The important thing now is for you to go ahead and put in a DYK nomination soon at T:TDYK, in the "created on June 20" batch, so that DYK regulars will look it over. It would be okay if your article was a bit short, they would tell you that. They'll approve it or give you other feedback, especially if you ask for feedback there. Have fun! doncram (talk) 02:14, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * There's an easier way to count characters and otherwise check DYK eligibility now: use the javascript tool at wp:DYKcheck. doncram (talk) 07:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

REFINERIES INFOBOX
Hello, is it possible to help me to create this infobox about oil refineries in the world.

…………………………………………… INFOBOX: REFINERY ……………………………………………

(End of the Infobox)
 * TITLE (TITRE) : Inside the infobox on top of all information.
 * 1) PICTURE (IMAGE) : Picture of the oil refinery
 * 2) LOCALISATION : First Section
 * 3) CITY : City of the Oil refinery
 * 4) ADRESS : Adress of the refinery —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fredoues (talk • contribs) 03:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) REFINING CENTER : Name of the refining center.
 * REFINERY DETAILS Second section
 * 1) COMPAGNY : Name of the compagny
 * 2) FOUNDATION : Year of the refinery foundation
 * 3) CLOSURE : Years of the refinery closure (essentially for old refineries)
 * 4) CAPACITY : Refining capacity per day
 * 5) REFINING UNITS (: Refining units inside the refinery
 * 6) NUMBER OF OIL TANK :
 * 7) PRODUCTS :
 * OTHERS REFINERIES OF THE COMPAGNY :
 * OTHERS REFINERIES OF THE REFINING CENTER :

Thanks for you're help !
 * 1) 1 Web Site - Shell Canada Montreal East Refinery
 * 2) 2 Web Site - Imperial Oil Dartmouth Refinery

FREDOUES USER —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.21.233.169 (talk) 23:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi. I added some comments and suggestions at the template's talk page. Your input and opinion is highly appreciated. Beagel (talk) 19:10, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

hidden category
Acroterion said you were the man to ask in regards to this question. Can you help me figure out what needs to be fixed? Thanks.  APK  that's not my name  01:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Category:NRHP infobox needing cleanup is a temporary category put in place by the infobox code itself. I'm going through the category in order to update all the CP articles to a new syntax that has just been deployed in infobox nrhp. I didn't look at the specific articles you mentioned in that comment, but if a building/property is listed individually on the National Register and as a contributing property to a historic district, that hidden category will stay on the page until I can finish going through the ~800 remaining articles. If the building/property is only listed as a contributing property but not individually listed, I'll get around to updating the article, which will remove the category. I've been quite busy for the past week or so, so I haven't really been able to focus on the category, but I'll get around to it within the month hopefully. Sorry for the wait! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem. Thanks for the answer, and for all your hard work. Cheers.  APK  that's not my name  05:18, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Governors Island
Hi, how can we ban/stop this user, DeKoning? He keeps muddying up the Governors Island article by adding that tolerance bunk to the article; it has been going on for a solid year. How do you ban or block a user like this? Any help appreciated. Thanks. -- K72ndst (talk) 22:08, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Eh.. well, you have to be an admin to block someone. It seems he's rewritten it this time, but I didn't read it. I figured someone would read it and remove it if they didn't see it fit this time. I'm not an admin, so I can't block the guy, but I left a message on his talk page warning him. Technically if he keeps rewriting the stuff, he's not really breaking 3RR, so there's no basis for blocking him. Maybe you could remove the content and then write on his talk page asking him to discuss the material on the article's talk page.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

nrhp cleanup
FYI, i am back to plugging along, slowly, at the  articles in Category:NRHP infobox needing cleanup, per cleanup drive archived discussion. The remaining tally to address shows in my self-reminder box at top right of my Talk page. doncram (talk) 18:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That's cool. I've been working on the articles as well, though not so much in the past few days because I just moved back into my dorm Saturday, and I've been busy with beginning of the year stuff. I suspect that in the next few days/weeks I'll be able to devote more time to going through these articles. Thanks for your help! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 19:00, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually Lvklock has been making the most progress, now using AWB. Hey, thanks for sharing a pic, too.  I won't reciprocate :) . doncram (talk) 07:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Good! I hadn't looked over there in a while because I've been busy with school/work. I don't know how much time I will have this semester to work on anything other than the occasional edit here and there, so it looks as if I won't be able to complete any of the projects I've been undertaking for quite a while :(. And what are you talking about "sharing a pic"? --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 16:44, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * With help by User:Lvklock, the Category:NRHP infobox needing cleanup has been reduced way down, to just 58 remaining right now. There has been a lot of good cleanup of the NHL ones, finding many lacking proper NHLSUM reference and a number of ones that were not in fact NHLs.  Many remaining seem to have no discernable-to-me problem (several are NRHPs on their own and also CPs, and may just appear because use both refnum and partof_refnum, but correctly).  I am scraping bottom there on anything i can find to fix, anyhow.  Okay, no problem about not being able to take on anything more.  No urgent need to do so.  Study hard!  I meant that you had posted a pic of urself at your user page.  Regards, doncram (talk) 19:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Lighthouse infobox
Hey, when u have time, could you please consider commenting at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lighthouses? If you do, mention that i invited you to do so. doncram (talk) 07:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Could you point me at a source of information on Wiki markup -- specifically the kind of code used in the lighthouse and NRHP infoboxes? I should add, I suppose, that I first programmed on a Burroughs 220 (vacuum tubes) and have used many different languages since, including HTML but not any JAVA, etc., so I can almost make it though the forest of {}|!, but not quite. Thanks, Jim. . . . Jameslwoodward (talk • contribs) 16:35, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Help:Template Is the best place I can think of.. it's really not that complicated. You can follow links in those sections to learn more about individual aspects. If you have any questions, feel free to ask! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 16:45, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Meridian, Mississippi Good Article nomination - any action?
On 28 August I completed a review of Meridian, Mississippi. I believe it is not far from good article status, but it does need some improvements. Do you intend to work on it? If not, I will close the review now as "failed". Thanks. --Uncia (talk) 13:32, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea I intend to work on it haha, but right now I'm really busy with school and work, and I'm also in the middle of a move to a new house, so I can't really focus on editing right now. I saw that you had finished and that you set the date, but I may not be able to make it. I have no idea when I'll have the time (and I'm pretty sure no one else will step up), so I don't really know what to tell you. I'll eventually get around to fixing the problems you mentioned, but I can't say for certain that it will be done in a timely manner. I put the article up for GA over the summer when I didn't have nearly as much to do, thinking it would be reviewed in a couple of days and I could promote it before school started. Thanks for the review, though, and sorry that I can't commit more time to it right now! I don't mind if you fail it right now, but what would that mean? If it's failed and I later fix the problems, can I just like resubmit it and be like "I fixed what was wrong last time; easy pass"? --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 16:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I have failed it, sorry. If you fix the problems and re-nominate it, please leave a message on my talk page so I can snag the reviewer job. You still have to go through the regular nomination process, but if I review it that will streamline the reviewing. If someone else reviews it you'll have to negotiate with them, and they will probably have different ideas than I do about what should be fixed. Thanks. --Uncia (talk) 20:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Governors Island
Hello, please review Governors Island talk page/history and the matter of serial editor DeKoning (talk), who is waging an edit war. Governors Island's article is continually being harmed by this Wiki user, who you warned in August 2009. Thanks. -- K72ndst (talk) 16:25, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Infobox industrial process
I created an infobox template for industrial process (Template:Infobox industrial process). You are welcome to comment and improve it. It is used in the Shale oil extraction article. Beagel (talk) 11:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Contributing properties in infoboxes
Thanks for the help with infobox nrhp! I've encountered a problem, however — the article that brought up the question, William B. Dunlap Mansion, is part of the Bridgewater Historic District (Bridgewater, Pennsylvania). I don't want the (Bridgewater, Pennsylvania) to display in the infobox, but Bridgewater Historic District is a disambiguation page. Could you add a parameter to enable me to choose what displays in the infobox? You can consult the coding of US county navigation box for a template that works the way I'd like it to — Bennington County, Vermont has a county seat of Manchester (town), Vermont, but by using a "seatname" parameter, I can make it display as Manchester. Thanks! Nyttend (talk) 04:28, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * A new parameter isn't needed. I just edited the article to point to the correct page by using a pipe link. The way the code for that parameter is set up, it can accept either plain text or a link, so any time disambiguation is necessary, it can be accomplished with a pipe link. While you're listening, though, would you mind taking a look at the talk page of the infobox? After adding the partof and partof_refnum parameters, it is still in the air about how we want to suppress the display of the light blue NRHP bar in articles about CPs that aren't individually listed. I laid out both options (and of course any other solutions are welcome), so if you don't mind, could you take a look and see which one you like best? --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and btw, it's great that you're helping to write articles about CPs that are also individually listed. I just created a new category yesterday (Category:Individually listed contributing properties to historic districts on the National Register) that should be placed on all individually listed CPs. I just added it to the Dunlap Mansion, but if there are others on which you've worked, it would be great if you'd put them in this category as well. Thanks! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

New Zealand Historic Places Trust
Hey thanks heaps for adding that. My contributions had stalled a bit recently, but this will get me back on the horse. I will get on to creating list pages soon. Cheers Lanma726 (talk) 09:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

stuff
Hey, i am really glad u r back at least for a while. Sorry i have not gotten back promptly about infobox stuff, will turn to that in next day. I have been getting carried away, perhaps, in doing NRHP articles in CT, now that there are NRHP docs available online for all CT (and for some other states). It is such a relief to have real info to work with positively, after 6 mos of contention (what u saw before ur semester started, never stopped, tho seems to be settled down just now, knock on wood). Thanks for long note, i am flattered, and will respond more substantially within 24hr. :) --doncram (talk) 03:37, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Santa Monica Historic Landmarks
Great work on organizing the Historic Landmarks ! I will work on List of City of Santa Monica Designated Historic Landmarks. I guess I need to great Template: Santa Monica color and choose a color (from city logo). Emargie (talk) 21:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I actually don't like the whole "Template:_________ color" system (that's some of User:Doncram's work), but if you want to create it, by all means go ahead. In order to add the designation to the infobox, though, there is more than just choosing a single color. I would suggest reading Template:Designation for all the information.. you have control not only over the background color, but the text color, the text that will appear in the designation's bar, and some other stuff. I tried to make the documentation as clear and as straightforward as possible, so if you have any questions or suggestions on making it easier to understand, please let me know. Thanks for the help! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:31, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Hidden NRHP infobox category
Do you happen to know under what condition an article is placed into Category:NRHP infobox needing cleanup? I looked at the infobox code and (if I understand it correctly) there's (A) a bug that is causing all articles with the infobox to placed in it, (B) over 15,000 infoboxes that need cleanup or (C) I don't understand code as well as I thought. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 22:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Argh. Thanks for pointing that out. I've been out of town all day, or I would have caught it earlier. The infobox is supposed to put only articles that don't have refnums and don't have nrhp_type1-4 set to "cp" or "nhldcp". In the most recent update, though, I missed one vertical bar in the ParserFunction that tells the infobox that, so instead of putting the category on articles that don't have refnums, it put the category on articles that do.... which is a lot haha. I've fixed the sandbox and alerted the admin that copied the code over, so hopefully he'll fix the error and the situation promptly. Thanks again for alerting me! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:40, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sometimes Google's cached copy of a page shows what it looked like a few days ago. leads to this cached copy which shows 65 pages. --Teratornis (talk) 22:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, that's actually too long ago. The articles showing in the cache have been fixed and new articles were put in through an update to the infobox. The second update came probably 2 days after the first, so unless there's a cache out there that shows between like Jan 8 and Jan 10, I'll just have to wait it out :(. Thanks for the thought though! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:31, 11 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm. I noticed this conversation earlier and went to the cached copy.  Randomly i picked Rufus Putnam House there to check, found that it did indeed need cleanup (it was missing refnum and other) and i fixed it up.  So perhaps the cache of 65 has more articles properly considered as needing cleanup....  Anyhow, glad you 2 or 3 people are on the case!  I think the existence of the cleanup category and the clever programming going into identifying articles for cleanup, is just great. doncram (talk) 02:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Infobox
Since you've done some infobox work with WP:Historic sites, I was wondering you you could add a map function to template:Infobox World Heritage Site in the same way that template:Infobox Historic Site does. It seems to have fields to allow a map to be added, but nothing for longitude and latitude. Nev1 (talk) 21:26, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the capability for a map to be displayed at the bottom of the infobox's sandbox just above the * and ** notes. I can't edit the WHS Infobox itself because it's a protected template, but if you can get an administrator to copy the code over, you can use it in the actual infobox. The new parameters are:

 is the name of the WHS and the second blank is whatever locmapin is set to.
 * locmapin = (tells the infobox which map to use. Acceptable maps can be found at Template:Location map)
 * latitude =
 * longitude = (These two can be used for decimal coordinates)
 * lat_degrees =
 * lat_minutes =
 * lat_seconds =
 * lat_direction =
 * long_degrees =
 * long_minutes =
 * long_seconds =
 * long_direction = (These can all be used for DMS coordinates.. Don't mix DMS and DEC though)
 * map_width = (sets the width of the map [don't include "px"]. Default 220)
 * map_caption = (what to display as caption. Default "Location of _____ in ______", where the first blank
 * If you want anything changed or have any questions, just ask! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 01:34, 13 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much Dudemanfellabra, that's a great addition to the infobox. Nev1 (talk) 13:03, 14 January 2010 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. I'd suggest updating the documentation now to tell people about the capability. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:19, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

dts
What was the purpose of edits such as this one? NRHPdts is used so month names are abbreviated and the column can be narrower. Now that column is forced wider, squeezing the others. Reywas92 Talk 02:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * NRHPdts was used on about 5 articles and does exactly the same thing as dts, so it isn't needed. The template is up for deletion now. If you want to shorten the dates in the table, input dates manually like so: Jan 12, 2010, which yields Jan 12, 2010 (with the hidden part shown for clarity).--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 02:32, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. I didn't realize that dts still works if you just type in an abbreviated date. Most articles that use it are in the {dts|yyyy|mm|dd} format. Reywas92 Talk 02:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Short name
OK, now that I'm going to be working with you on the Style guide, I have to ask: Calling you "Dude" is tempting, but such assumptions are sometimes wrong -- I added the Jim to my own sig because I don't like being called "James". Cordially,. . . . Jim. . . . Jameslwoodward (talk • contribs) 12:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * What's a Dudemanfellabra?
 * What do I call you in second reference -- I have no trouble writing "Nyttend" or "Pubdog" on a talk page, but Dudemanfellabra is a bit of a mouthful?
 * Haha my user name is just something that I've kind of used my entire life (since I was like 12). There are two possible sources for it, and I kind of claim them both haha. One story is that it's an amalgamation of all the names for a guy: "Dude", "man", "fella", and "bra" (kinda like bro.. pronounced "bruh"). The other, and more personal, is that when I was a kid, I was playing I think hide and seek with my cousins, and while running I tripped into the laundry room and landed in a clothes hamper. When my cousins came in, I was getting up, and I had a bra on my head, so he screamed (being about 8 at the time) "DUDE, MAN, YOU FELL ON A BRA!".. so ya know.. it just kind of stuck haha.
 * As for what you can call me, I don't really care. Some people call me "Dude" on here; others "Dudeman".. just kind of whatever you want. My real name is Floyd Maseda, so you can even call me Floyd if you want. I'm not that picky haha.. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:25, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

WP:ANI
I've brought the Governors Island matter to ANI here - care to add your tuppence ha'penny's worth? -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 03:58, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Why two help pages?
Just curious, why did you create WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Editor help and WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Resources separately, instead of making them the same page? Nyttend (talk) 06:21, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I didn't create them.. They were already there when I got there.. I'm gradually working on merging all these pages into one big help page (and possibly a/some smaller resource page), so eventually I'll delete one or both of them. I'm working (somewhat periodically, along with other projects I've committed to) on the style guide at the moment, and I've gotten mostly done with it and shrunk the two pages you're asking about drastically, so that's why they appear to be useless. I'm gradually working on it, but I just started my spring semester, so I won't be able to work as fast as I'd like to.. I'll hopefully have the whole system cleaned up in a month or two. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 17:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Builder parameter
Do you suppose a "builder" parameter could be added to the NRHP infobox as there are instances where the person listed in the database as the architect is really the builder. Another option would be to change the label of the architect parameter to "Architect / Builder", which is how it is done in the nomination forms. By the way, the cleanup category seems to be finally finished updating. ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 17:36, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Umm well I think the better option would be to just change the text to read "Architect/Builder"; this would probably have to be discussed at WT:NRHP though. I noticed the cleanup category.. I've been working on it (slowly) for a while, but I'm also committed to working on some other things, and I have 18 hrs of class on top of 15 hrs of work this semester, so I don't really have a lot of time.. I'm working on it though. Any help is of course appreciated! Thanks! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:44, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I started to go through and fix the NRHP infoboxes and came across one site on the Virginia Landmarks Register, which isn't in the Designation template yet. I'd try to add myself, but would probably break it or forget to do some crucial step. I'm going to wait a little bit before taken the whole architect/builder thing to WT:NRHP, as I also am getting somewhat (like a paper due Friday) ​​​​​​ ​​ Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 03:35, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for alerting me to that register. I'll look into it some more.. generally I like to have at least the beginnings of a list-article (or at least an external list that can be translated into a list article) before I add the register to the Designation template.. Currently I'm working on listing out all ~1000 Irish National Monuments, and I plan to do Monuments of Portugal later.. I'll add this one to my list! --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Location map for Boston
Hi, I noticed that you created location maps for Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, and Chicago. After trying, I am not sure how to do this. Do you have time to make one for Boston? Thanks. Cmcnicoll (talk) 04:14, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure I can, but I'm kind of pressed for time. Basically I just used OpenStreetMap and navigated to the city, making sure to include all of the city limits. There's an export function on the site that allows you to create a PNG, SVG, or JPG image (I chose PNG instead of SVG because I don't really know how to mess with SVGs), and the coords for each side of the box you create are the ones used in the location map. It's fairly simple and self explanatory, so I think anyone could handle it, but if it proves to be too complicated, I can make the map for you.. It just may take a few days..
 * It actually appears that there is already a File:Map of Boston and Cambridge.png that could be used for this purpose. If you can match up the latitude/longitude lines of the sides of that map to those displayed on OpenStreetMap, you wouldn't even need a new map. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 04:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I just created Template:Location map Boston. The coords may be a little off, but it won't be that noticeable I don't think... --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 21:10, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for doing that! Cmcnicoll (talk) 01:33, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Nanih Waiya
Wait a minute. Did I just hear you imply that "close" only counts if it's in the same county? Does that mean that East Saint Louis, Illinois is not close to Saint Louis, Missouri? Does that mean that Windsor, Ontario is not close to Detroit? Backspace (talk) 22:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * No, close doesn't always have to be in the same county, but for the article in question, the location was set to Winston County, but a city from a neighbouring county was used. I didn't look up the exact distances or anything, but Noxapater and Bogue Chitto appear to be roughly the same distance from Nanih Waiya, and they are both about the same size. The edit was purely out of preference. I think it is less confusing for a reader to go through the infobox and see location set to Winston County and then have a nearest city in Winston County instead of somewhere else. Feel free to change it back to Bogue Chitto, but I think normal practice is to include a city in the same county for that parameter. You could possibly bring this up at WT:NRHP. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 00:26, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Category rename?
Ever since I first saw Category:Individually listed contributing properties to historic districts on the National Register, I've thought that it might be better named "Individually...Register of Historic Places", like all other NRHP-related categories. What do you think of this? If you agree, we might be able to get a speedy renaming, since the creator/only major contributor support renaming. Nyttend (talk) 20:09, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you mean changing it to Category:Individually listed contributing properties to historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places? If so, I'm fine with that... I just think it's a forever long title haha.. Can you think of any way to shorten it? 14 words is a bit much. Maybe Category:Individually listed historic district contributing properties to resemble Category:Historic district contributing properties? I actually think NRHP needs to show up somehow in the category title and would even suggest that the CP category needs to be renamed as well.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:58, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what I mean, but I agree that it is absurdly long. I don't really know how we can shorten it without opening it to non-NRHP sites — if the UK includes historic districts among its listed buildings, the category "Individually listed historic district contributing properties" might seem reasonable to put on a listed building in the district.  If we weren't going to include NRHP in the title, I think that it would go better to go with "Individually listed contributing properties to historic districts" (including renaming the CP category), simply because it sounds better.  Nyttend (talk) 05:36, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with that. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Statue of Liberty National Monument, Ellis Island and Liberty Island
With regard to above, can you please explain what it meant by district members? Thanks Djflem (talk) 21:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This article is about a historic district listed on the National Register of Historic Places. The "district members" are simply sites located within the district. --Dudemanfellabra (talk) 23:18, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Governors Island redux
Someone with the username of Liskay has been putting a section about a "Tolerance Foundation" into the Governors Island article. It's been removed, now, four times, and still he keeps putting it back in. If that isn't bad enough, a.) it reads like an essay, and b.) it takes some swipes at Wikipedia editors for having "bias". I'm going to take this to ANI tomorrow; I'm beginning to think that maybe a full protect is in order. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 06:49, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably a sock puppet.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 08:37, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 'S what I figured. Once I get sorted for the day I'll ask someone to look into it. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 17:41, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Right. I've brought it up at ANI. -- Ser Amantio di Nicolao Che dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 06:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Re: Refnum in NRIS database but missing from generator?
Thanks for the input at Elkman's talk; unfortunately, when Elkman checked MPS numbers, this wasn't one of them, and I've done other checking without finding anything. I'm considering following up on Elkman's suggestion and contacting the Ohio Historical Society. Nyttend (talk) 21:31, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Infoboxes in Yeywa Dam and others
Hi, i've been working along through Category:NRHP infobox needing cleanup and encountered use by User:Marcus334 for several non-US sites. I tried changing the NRHP infobox to Historic Sites infobox at Yeywa Dam article, but it then does not look as good as in this version using NRHP infobox. Marcus334 tried further, too. See User talk:Marcus334 and followup at User talk:Doncram. I wonder, could you possibly help Marcus334?

Also, i wanted to say your having programmed the cleanup category is a v. good thing, it is helping to identify good improvements to make. Thanks! --doncram (talk) 12:07, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for helping out with the cleanup category.. I've been pretty busy over the past week, but now that the weekend is here, I have a little more free time. I had noticed the Yeywa case before and was purposely avoiding it until I finished the cleanup, but since you brought it up, I posted a message at Template talk:Infobox Dam and created a sandbox version with a pushpin map at User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox. The Yeywa example can be found at User:Dudemanfellabra/Sandbox3, and hopefully when someone responds there, the code will be copied over to the main template.


 * On a side note, I have recently been working on listing out/table-izing all the National Monuments of Ireland and have almost finished (one county left which I will probably do later today). I've already put Infobox Historic Site on some of the monuments' articles after adding the Irish National Monument designation to Template:Designation. After I finish Ireland I plan to add the Serbian monuments brought up at WT:HSITES as well as Landmarks of St. Louis, Missouri to the infobox as well. I think after all that is finished, I'll be able to focus more on the cleanup category... before moving on to listing out all of the Monuments of Portugal.


 * Basically what I'm trying to say is that I'll be busy for a while haha :P..--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 18:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Infobox is now updated, and the changes can be seen on Yeywa Dam.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 23:07, 27 February 2010 (UTC)