User talk:Duke Maloney

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Speedy deletion nomination of Andrew Maloney
Hello Duke Maloney,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Andrew Maloney for deletion, because it seems to be inappropriate for a variety of reasons.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Mr. Guye (talk) 18:57, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

the article just deleted, Andrew Mahoney
I never got to see the article, as it evidently was deleted so quickly after the speedy deletion tag. A first Wikipedia article can be very difficult. This is compounded when the creator is very close to the subject; even more so when the subject is a close relative. Another difficulty is that neither the article creator, any other editor, nor the subject owns the article. I've asked someone with more experience than I to take a look. Wikipedia has a requirement for a special kind of notability, encyclopedic notability, rather than general notability. I don't think this will be a problem for an article on Andrew Maloney, the US DA, if this is indeed the Andrew Maloney for the deleted article. - Neonorange (talk) 21:41, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes - the deleted article was Andrew Maloney the former US Attorney. Incidentally you accidently wrote "Mahoney" instead of "Maloney." He is mentioned in several wikipedia articles but the link comes up blank because no one ever created a page on him. I tried to do that today...unsuccessfully. Don't even know how to find a copy of the page I posted (wish I had copied it to my desk top). Seems like he should have a page....
 * Please forgive my name error. I could claim growing up in rural Georgia many years ago as an excuse, but I lived in Chicago for four years. 'Red links', like those you've seen for Andrew Maloney, are put there on purpose, to encourage the creation of articles. Just be very clear that these articles take a life of their own. I had in mind to start one on a cousin; I could see the parts I would be hesitant to put in, and those which political opponents would not be hesitant about, so I passed. (by the way, you should sign your posts with four tildes, like this ~ ; that will put in your username plus a time and date stamp) - Neonorange (talk) 22:36, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
 * PS: even more reason for me to feel stupid, my kids have a Derry as a great-grandfather (born in Iowa in the 1800s, but his father... - Neonorange (talk) 22:43, 12 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Thirty seconds in NYT archives, nearly 4,000 hits, beginning with "NEW YORK AT WORK; Facing Gotti, A Prosecutor Hard on Mob". Yes, there should be an article; there should never have been any doubt. I will get started, and will ask for help. Sorry for your bad experience here. - Neonorange (talk) 03:13, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Looking more closely at the dates Andrew Maloney was US DA for Eastern New York, memories come back to me. Over those years I spent a lot of time in Columbia and South Florida covering the cocaine trade. I'm sure there must be some intersections. - Neonorange (talk) 04:49, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * It is likely that the article in question was deleted in error. Although there is certainly a potential conflict of interest when someone creates an article about a close relative, each such case should be examined on its merits. So long as we are talking about the Andrew Maloney who served as US Attorney in the late 80s/early 90s, it should be easy to confirm that an article would be appropriate. Given his involvement in the case against John Gotti, I'm slightly surprised we don't already cover him. Please would you both keep me in touch with your progress on re-creating this article. I'll do what I can to help. RomanSpa (talk) 03:33, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

userification
I moved the draft to User:Duke Maloney/Andrew Maloney at your request. Please be aware that any part of it copied from an outside source is copyright to them, and must be removed.  DGG ( talk ) 06:07, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * To further explain the 'userfication' DGG has given you access to: even if you have permission to use any text used in the article you began, that you did not write; that doesn't work for Wikipedia, which requires a free-for-anyone-anywhere-any-time-to-use license. And verifying such a grant isn't a short process. It's lawyer stuff B^) Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. So don't even begin to rely on anything I say abut legal matters. But then, I suppose, you know that. So, now that you have your text visible again, best to take it down. If you have any questions as to exactly where the text now exists, ask me a question directly below this post. I am watching this page, so I will see your question. (Or you can leave a question at User Talk:DGG.)


 * I am going to begin work on an article; I will need your help. For the moment I'm using NYT archives: I'm sure there at many more resources, but journalistic resources appeal. I have set myself a goal of 10 days; looking at the tyranny of a calendar month that begins on a Sunday, let's shoot for the 4th of July - that's a good holiday, right! After that, perhaps you can help with an article on my cousin, fated to respond in Doe v Bolton. - Neonorange (talk) 07:53, 13 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Looking at the article as it stands, it looks like there's plenty on the Gotti case. Give me a couple of days, and I'll see if I can find a reference to his involvement in that business with the Teamsters at LaGuardia/Kennedy (can't remember which), and I'll write a note on that. RomanSpa (talk) 08:04, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Not a problem; I've got over thirty journalism sources, not even counting the many, many NYT articles. The Gotti case is perhaps not even the most significant work during Maloney's tenure as US DA for Eastern NY. And a book or two. - Neonorange (talk) 23:09, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Image of Andrew Maloney
@Duke Maloney: we are going to need an image of Andrew Maloney. A free-to-use-anytime-anywhere image would be best. The official picture from the tenure of Andrew as DA should be a US government work product, and thus automatically copyright free. If you have an image you have taken, then that's easy to use, since you can grant a free license. Using an image produced by Andrew's current law firm could be complicated by the Wikipedia process of clearing the copyright, and "fair use" doesn't work well for an image of a living person when there is a good chance of making a new image. (Let me know if I'm stating the obvious-to-you, or ask a question about anything that seems opaque.) - Neonorange (talk) 23:27, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I will get you a photo (that will not have any copyright issues). May take a few days - I am out of the office Mon. Should have something for you by the middle of next week (assuming I can figure out how to paste it onto this site). Kind regards - and happy father's day. Duke --Duke Maloney (talk) 14:39, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. And happy father's day to you; I've got a rare double; wedding anniversary yesterday, father's day today.
 * The image: good that you can get one so quickly. Instructions to upload are here. If you can get the image uploaded, any problems with filling out the rights grant I can edited to correct. I am reading sources at the moment. I think I'll mention the cartel prosecution, Gotti, and one or two others to show the range of activity during Andrew's tenure. Some of the cases in private practice (perhaps the 9/11 family representation). Some of the bio sections should be trimmed, and I may have some questions specific to Andrew's participation in his current law firm. The result, for better or worse, is going to have to read like an encyclopedia article. A bit formal, a bit fusty. It will get in the door; I'm sure other editors will stop by to improve what I do. Please feel free to make suggestions; we can make use of special, personal knowledge to locate Wikipedia reliable sources. Citations to such are required. Some items of information (incontrovertible facts, for example) have a lower bar for sourcing, say, a cv from a lawyer's firm. I will let you know when I have problems. Again, keep in mind that this article needs be balanced and my require a 'controversies' section. - Neonorange (talk) 15:58, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Further work on article Andrew J. Maloney
Hi! I'd like some additional information. I have an outline for the article, and am plugging information into it. I'll write from the outline, then post what I've written, including cites, at User:Duke Maloney/Andrew Maloney for User:DGG to see, as requested; he will move the results to article space (Wikipedia speak for creating the article < recreating it, in this case > .)

Additional information needed: Thanks. - Neonorange (talk) 02:57, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * First - the full name of your father (I have only the middle initial)
 * Second - a few details about your father and the law firm, Defeis et al. (I have at least one NYT article on a case of his there, but details you supply will help in finding additional sources)
 * Third - graduation year for high school.

I uploaded a photo I took of my dad (think it was 2004) when I became a partner at my law firm. I put it in wikimedia commons because my account is so new I could not post it here. His middle name is Joseph and he is technically a "Junior," and I am the "III" In wikimedia commons I have him as Andrew J. Maloney, Jr. United States Attorney EDNY 1986-92. He graduated from Bishop Loughlin in Brooklyn in 1949. The firm he works at now consists of former federal prosecutors who also worked in the EDNY (some of his assistants). One of his more recent representations of note was representing Andrew Stein, the former City Council President for the City of New York who was alleged to have aided an investment Ponzi scheme by a crooked money manager who was a friend of Stein's. Stein pleaded out to a minor charge. Are you looking for details on the union monitorships he has worked on while at the firm? Other matters there? Is there any interest for more information about more noteworthy cases while he was US Attorney? Or when he was an Assistant U.S. Attorney in the SDNY or private practice at Maloney, Viviani, Higgins & Kelly? Interesting personal info (much of it was already made public). Let me know. Thanks for all of your help on this. Duke --Duke Maloney (talk) 15:03, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the information. I don't think there should be too much detail about private practice, perhaps only the 9/11 representation. The Escobar indictment seems a significant event, I need to reread the articles.
 * The image; well, I can't find it on Commons, at least using > Andrew J. Maloney, Jr. United States Attorney EDNY 1986-92.jpg <. I tried a search on > Maloney <, but, with 6500 hits, I thought I'd first ask you to double check the file name you used, and to check if the image is actually there. Once found, the image can also be used at the Wikipedia article that lists the District Attorneys of the Eastern District of New York.
 * I think, at the first appearance of the article on Wikipeda, it should be shorter rather than longer. Best to get it started, then accepted. After than, improvement can be incremental.
 * By the way, Wikipedia has a few 'markup' tricks that are easy to use. For example, to make conversations like this easier to follow, each new post can be indented a bit by placing a ':' colon at the beginning. For each successive post, a colon is added. The colons must be the first character on the new line; no space is left between the initial colon and the new text. Successive paragraphs in a post must be preceded by the same number of colons. I hope the final results of this dust-up will be satisfying enough for you to continue to be an editor here, or, at least, make occasional use of Wikipedia. - Neonorange (talk) 00:21, 19 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Neonorange. I just went to Wikimedia commons and put in "Andrew J. Maloney" and the photo came right up. So it should be easy to find. On the 9/11 representation - that was me (I am AJM III - hence the nickname - Duke). He did not work on 9/11 legal matters. Pablo Escobar was indeed a big bad guy indicted by him as well as my old office (SDNY) I believe. The Medelin cartel's assassin who blew up the Avianca flight just to kill one snitch, also put out a hit on my father prompting the FBI & Marshals to send body guards to the house and on the road for a while. Tons of stories, but trying to keep it short.

Let me know what else you need. Duke --Duke Maloney (talk) 19:26, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I retrieved the image without a problem this time. Can you upload a higher resolution image?
 * I hope to place the draft article at User:Duke Maloney/Andrew Maloney this weekend.
 * Could you check the timeline below for accuracy, and fill any gaps?
 * Bishop Loughlin Memorial High School Class of 1949
 * West Point class of 1954
 * US Army Ranger 1954-57
 * Fordham Law class of 1961
 * an Assistant United States Attorney, Southern District of New York, Criminal Division 1962-72
 * North East Regional Director of the Justice Department's Office of Drug Abuse Law Enforcement 1972-74
 * United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York 1986-92
 * currently with Defeis, O'Connell & Rose P.C. in New York, NY
 * You might wish to look at the Wikipedia bios for United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York. Thanks for your aid in keeping things accurate. - Neonorange (talk) 04:07, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Beginning of new draft article
I've just posted the beginning of a new draft article at User:Duke Maloney/Andrew Maloney. Please check for accuracy. As soon as I get a reply, assuming no problems, I will change the formatting so that it does not show up as part of an article (though the information will still be in place.)

The family information will need citations, else it may be removed. Better to be prepared, just in case. I've found citations for the three educational institutions: a donors list for the high school, Army General Orders No. 44 for West Point, and a graduating class list at Fordham. The Gotti and Escobar cites are easy in comparison. - Neonorange (talk) 04:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I am not sure how to get a higher resolution photo but will look into it (it looked ok on the Wiki site you posted). Any suggestions on documenting the family info? Are you talking about work certificates etc.?  I have one of my own from DOJ (its hanging on my office wall, I suppose I could take a photo of it; my brother probably has the same; assume my cop uncles have something... but this seems a bit cumbersome). There may be some mention of these things in media and I can look when I have the time. I had a press conference when I was a prosecutor regarding my prosecution of a large car jacking ring around 1992 and some other noteworthy cases where I was quoted.  My bio is posted on my law firm website Kreindler.com, but I don't know if this is enough. Will check with my brother.
 * I think the current photo looks fine; a higher resolution photo is not necessary. I can help you with that later. The reference needed on family stuff should be published stuff, .gov sites and the like, if not newspapers, etc.
 * I will change the formatting of the infobox now, and post more of the draft later. - Neonorange (talk) 15:41, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry if my questions are coming in drips and draps. You gave your mother's name and the amount of time your parents have been married. Could you give me the year? Sometimes the most basic parameter of a person's life can be the most difficult to source. (The relevant Wikipedia is at WP:Identifying reliable sources, but I don't recommend you look there for more than a few minutes. Wikipedia editing guidance is like a sweater. You can start anywhere and pull; eventually you unravel the whole thing, but it may take years!)  - Neonorange (talk) 01:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry if my questions are coming in drips and draps. You gave your mother's name and the amount of time your parents have been married. Could you give me the year? Sometimes the most basic parameter of a person's life can be the most difficult to source. (The relevant Wikipedia is at WP:Identifying reliable sources, but I don't recommend you look there for more than a few minutes. Wikipedia editing guidance is like a sweater. You can start anywhere and pull; eventually you unravel the whole thing, but it may take years!)  - Neonorange (talk) 01:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)


 * My parents were married in February 1957. I came across another NY Times article by M.A. Farber, April 22, 1991 just before he decided to try the Gotti case himself. The article gives a summary of his tenure in the EDNY, including some criticisms, but provides some more substantive information that you may or may not want to include and corroboration for much of the Wiki draft (including a mention of me as a prosecutor in the SDNY). They have me described as "Jr."  I am actually the THIRD. My father is technically a Junior but he never uses it.  We are both named after his father. No worries about the drips and drabs questions. They have been easy, corroboration from published sources however, is not always so easy.

Regards, Duke--Duke Maloney (talk) 17:09, 24 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I am sure you know that the Mary Jo White who he hired as his chief deputy and mentioned in the NY Times article, was acting US Attorny in the EDNY when my father left and was later appointed by Clinton as US Attorney for SDNY and was recently appointed by Obama to head the SEC. She has her own Wikipedia cite. They remain close friends to this day.

--Duke Maloney (talk) 17:19, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I have created what I think is an appropriate infobox for Andrew J. Maloney, Jr. I have two small questions (one already answered, I think):
 * what is the current city of residence for your father (city only, or borough and city)
 * what name for the article?
 * Article names for biographies use the name by which the person is best known. The US Attorney for Eastern NY list Andrew J. Maloney and the New York Times nearly always uses Andrew J. Maloney (the only exception I've found there is one use of Andrew Joseph Maloney). So I am going to use "Andrew J. Maloney" as the article title. Should you acquire an article (believe me, from what I can see, it can be a mixed blessing), then a disambiguation page can be employed (the same goes for any other Andrew J. Maloney) so that a Wikipedia user can have a choice of which Andrew J. Maloney. - Neonorange (talk) 19:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I would simply use "Andrew J. Maloney" Neither he nor the articles that refer to him use "Jr."

He lives in a New York Metro suburb. Which of the family background do you need citations for? The number of children and that I was also an AUSA were mentioned in media articles (NY Times). I do not believe that my NY County ADA brother was ever published, nor that AJM's brother and brother's in law were NYPD. Think his father was listed as dead in WWI in the NY newspapers in 1918 though he survived a German mustard gas attack and received the Purple Heart. Not sure how to find records on this, nor that it belongs in this article in any event, but I can try to find out. --Duke Maloney (talk) 14:19, 7 July 2014 (UTC) Duke
 * Duke: I've deleted part of the information you mentioned there, for privacy reasons. The information is, however, still held in your edit history. If you would like the information to be deleted from your edit history too, this can be done at your request. The best person to ask would be an experienced Administrator. I suggest User:DGG, who has already helped out on this article by userfy-ing the earlier article on your father, and is one of our most experienced and reliable Administrators. RomanSpa (talk) 15:00, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I can do that, just ask me. since I'm here, I have a few comments:

1) The Giotti case is covered in the article on Giotti. Reduce the material here to perhaps 2 sentences.

2)On the other hand we can't say " many drug defendants and Asian-American street-gang members in addition to dozens of Mafia figure"   "Many" is a vague term. we either need specific names, or a quotation from the NYT etc summarizing his career. Actually doesn't every   DA convict  a great many  drug defendants -- you probably mean a few very large scale cases that made the papers.  They each of them need a  just a name and a reference.

3) His family background is, frankly, unimportant; ewe are not a genealogy site. And that's the part which will make it appear as a conflict of interest. (I'm sometimes puzzled that we include it as much as we do,.) Any published source will do for this.  Family documents etc are not published evidence.  . Alumni sites are fine for the education.

5 /minor awards are not always mentioned. they need to be documented from the place giving the award. Ditto for "top attorneys" and the like. Personally, I have often argued they doesn't show anything much, What is notable is his public career.  DGG ( talk ) 16:06, 7 July 2014 (UTC) @Duke Maloney:
 * I've put up a lede for the article. At this point I think your original draft no longer serves a purpose since I have a local copy and I assume you do also. As far as current residence for your father, somehow I automatically assumed it would be Brooklyn; I don't know much about NYC. The county won't mean to much, and certainly the specific town could be problematic. How about southern New York?
 * The questions about details of your family are more preventative than necessary. From what I see I Wikipedia, particularly on biographies of living persons, it's best to have backup before questions arise. Hope you and your family had a great 4th. - Neonorange (talk) 21:40, 7 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I would suggest "New York Metro area" on residence. Fine to delete any of the family stuff that you want to. Was only for background on human interest stuff that was part of his persona that he never hid and was, at least I thought reported in the media. I had seen on other wiki sites, but easy enough to simply delete.

--Duke Maloney (talk) 21:50, 7 July 2014 (UTC) Duke
 * Thanks; New York Metro area it is. I will remove the original article text now, and post further parts of the new draft. - Neonorange (talk) 01:06, 8 July 2014 (UTC) (Phil)