User talk:DustyRain/Archive 1

WebTrain Communications Article Recreated
As you requested WebTrain Communications article has been recreated. It has been rewritten and should not be deleted. Cindy Flynn 08:26, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment: Hi, I did not request the article be be recreated.  I have been using my user page to create the content, gather valid notable citable notices, invite the colleges and univerties using our product to participate and publish articles for notability, etc.  My plans were to then confirm with other WIKI admins that the article conforms,if not, keep plugging away.  Gary WebTrain (talk) 23:11, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

WebTrain Communications
A tag has been placed on WebTrain Communications, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.

If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add  on the top of WebTrain Communications and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on User talk:RHaworth if you have any questions about this.


 * Note: The message above was not posted here to your talk page as a courtesy when user RHaworth nominated your article for speedy deletion.


 * The article was deleted as per WP:CSD. — Athaenara  ✉  23:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of WebTrain
A tag has been placed on WebTrain, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read our the guidelines on spam as well as the Business' FAQ for more information.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. tgies (talk) 06:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 06:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

About the article
Welcome!

Hello, Gary WebTrain, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Just saw your request at EA. Still a little advertisement-y, in my opinion, and I think restructuring the article will do a lot to offset that. If you don't mind, I'm going to be rather brisk and hope you trust me ;-) First, the lead:
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * Tutorial
 * How to edit a page
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style
 * WebTrain Communications is a privately held company that has provided on-demand hosted web conferencing services for 7 years.

7 years from when? When was "for 7 years" written?
 * The WebTrain software runs as an embedded object within a web browser to provide hosted web conferencing services for different vertical markets.

It's best to make it explicit that WebTrain Communications makes software. And what's a vertical market? Is that relevant to the software or the company? I'd write:
 * WebTrain Communications is a privately-held company established in 199x that hosts web conferences intended for vertical markets. The software it uses for conferencing is developed in-house, and runs inside a browser.

Finally, the lead should establish notability. The PC Mag article is dated 2002, so I'd choose something more recent; BCTIA red-links, so that's not the best option... However, your website has good testimonials. As long as a well-known institution is saying "wow!". It wraps up the lead pretty nice, too.

Then the ==History== header: avoid lists like the plague; far better if it can be rendered to prose (but avoid prose-lists, too, like "In 2001, blahblahblah. In 2002, blahblahblah. In 2003, blahblahblah, blahblahblah. In 2004, blarg".). Avoid "as of"s if you can, and avoid stating versions unless they're milestones. I'd also move the text in ==Vertical market focus== into history, as it is relevant to the history of the company insofar as it says where the company is getting its money from. Expand on business models, and why they're relevant to the company and its customers (and a good idea: who are the customers, and how has this technology helped them. This is challenging, because you cannot write testimonials into an encyclopedia)

To clarify your suggestion regarding business models, do you mean detailing vertical market solutions or detailing our usage plans? (For example, liek WebEx, we have solutions for webinars, for support rooms, for remote control, etc). Or do you mean detailing our different usage plans such as pay-as-you-go, per seat plans, contracted rate subscriptions, exclusive country wide licensing and in-house based licensed server models?) Gary WebTrain (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Write it like you have nothing to do with it is the very best advice, though :-) If you have any questions or complaints, I'm always here :-) I have this on my watchlist, too, so you can reply here. Xavexgoem (talk) 11:26, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

This is such good advice. I'll work on it today. Question 1: Is it a acceptable to ask people that do not have a COI to participate? Question 2: When the article is ready, can my user talk page be moved to the article page to identify contributors and edit history? Gary WebTrain (talk) 14:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * To question 1, of course :-) It's the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, after all. Probably won't even have to ask.
 * To question 2... to do that, you have to move the page; there's a tab for that. If you've been here for more than 4 days under this account, you should be able to move a page. To be honest, I've been here a while and have never moved a page, so I don't know the exact mechanics, but I'm pretty sure what you'll want to do is move your userpage to WebTrain or something similar. This will copy the content from your userpage to a newly created page, and your userpage will become a redirect, i.e., "#REDIRECT WebTrain" will be the only text on your userpage... you will need to remove this to prevent your userpage from redirecting to an article (not good). There's also the option to move the talk page with it, but I don't think that that's a good idea... probably better just to copy/paste everything in that instance. But don't worry about q2 until you're done editing.
 * I'll ask around about page moves... These type of things tend to have a GFDL stipulation somewhere somehow, but I may be wrong. Xavexgoem (talk) 15:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I modified my user page as per your suggestions. I have invited a few credible people who do not have COI issues to provide content suggestions and comments to this discussion as well as requested them to edit my user page, etc. I have stressed the importance of NPOV, factual referenced content only. I also requested that they confirm their contributions with our "encylopedian" (you). Gary WebTrain (talk) 17:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * No reason for it to go through me, at least in that sense... as you've noticed, the tendency on wiki's is for things to explicitly fail and implicitly pass. That's what consensus is. If something fails, like an edit, it gets reverted or revised. If an edit passes... it just passes. Can't tell something's wrong 'til someone else comes along.
 * I suppose this is advice for people who've made a bit of a career editing Wikipedia, though. I'm just saying nothing needs to go through me, as I may end up editing out mistakes and all that stuff anyway :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 19:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Response to your message
→  In re : deletion of WebTrain Communications and Webtrain articles.

I saw your email messages today — I check that account only about once a week, if that — and your text with infobox and references seems, upon cursory review, to be a good start on building a Policies and guidelines-compliant article about your company. I haven't deleted the email, but if you've retained your own copy of what you sent you won't need my copy.

I'm happy to see that you've been following through with your intentions on site here. User Xavexgoem has been giving you good advice above; there is also Deletion review, which you will have seen if you read Criteria for speedy deletion (linked in both deletion notifications above).

Please understand the context of my deletion: admins, "given the mop" for cleanup, check things like Category:Candidates for speedy deletion and follow through as appropriately as possible.

The primary requirements are that your article be written in compliance with the following:
 * the Notability (organizations and companies) guideline
 * the Neutral point of view policy

Good luck. — Athaenara ✉  19:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. The links you provided noted Wikipedia has inclusion standards for companies. The basic requirement is that multiple independent sources must have written non-trivial amounts of information about a company before a Wikipedia article on that company is appropriate. This requirement helps ensure there's actually enough neutral and factual information to write a proper article. The good news is that there are plenty of 3rd party credible reviews and content about our product on the web, so it looks good from that perspective. Gary WebTrain (talk) 20:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

is there any way to format paragraphs so there is slightly more space between them ? Gary WebTrain (talk) 05:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Just put an extra blank line between the paragaphs.

You can force a blank line by entering   if you like, but it's usually not necessary.

Remember that the way wikipedia is displayed depends on the users browser settings, so it's usually best not to worry too much about formatting - let the user take care of it. This makes documents more compatible, for example for people reading it with special software to deal with disabilities (blind etc) - so, basically, leave the formatting as plain as possible, unless there's a very good reason not to. --62.56.88.56 (talk) 05:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Regarding webtrain - I think you'll find it very difficult to get this article to a suitable state for inclusion on wikipedia. A cursory google search makes me think it will be hard to establish any kind of notability. Please do study WP:NOTABLE, WP:COI and WP:SPAM

Consider contributing to other articles, perhaps?

--62.56.88.56 (talk) 05:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Welcome
P.P.S.

It looks like nobody has given you much guidance, so I thought I'd post this. note, particularly, the part about a sandbox - it might help you in your endeavours.

Best wishes,

Welcome...

Hello, Gary WebTrain, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Introduction The five pillars of Wikipedia How to edit a page Help How to write a great article Manual of Style

Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and ask your question there.

Recent History Edits and Notability
I modifed history, I added a reference to the Robin Good article, from masternewmedia.org, they perform very deep product reviews of major web conferencing products, it should be a notable reference. I know there's been other reviews as well and easily found references such as: Veterans Training Center http://www.myvbtc.org/portal/students/class.php, EWB http://itsupport.ewb.ca/blog/frequently-asked-questions/webtrain-questions/, Notable Technologies section in Educational Technology presentation http://www.educationaltechnology.ca/couros/presentation_files/PAA-NewTechnologies.ppt, Charter Oak State College http://www.ctdlc.org/courseoffer/syllabi/ACFB809.doc, Brandon Hall Research Paper - Tools for Developing Online Training - page 100 - http://courseware.hbs.edu/demo/new_wave/EmergingTechnologies10-31-06.pdf, Integrated reseller example at http://nettraffix.com/?page=features, CDO Group integration at http://www.cdogroup.com/, etc) so I'll check with wiki advisors as to what references would be best. Note we are also mentioned in a Frost and Sullivan eb Conferencing publication, but the publication is private and fee based ($4500). Our V3 join development (as detailed in history) relating to the F10 company can be found at a public URL, unfortunately, we are bound by security policies to not disclose it. arrrg. I'll have to check with legal or seek special permission for a reference on that, as the company is one of the largest in the world.

For my collegues working on this article, some of which are from provincial universities (see page page 57 of http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/branches/elearning/2005-06_site_guide.pdf), Sask Library Association (SLA) continuing education (http://www.lib.sk.ca/sla/Education/cecommitteeinfo.html), University of Regina (http://www.uregina.ca/cce/offcampus/distance/education/ecmp455.htm), and other professional organizations, perhaps content on your site about WebTrain could include more notable content. Same for Purple hearts, Engineers without Borders, both being NP's, expanding your content about WebTrain on your site would be good. Gary WebTrain (talk) 17:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Unverified - Citation needed
Content from user page below was moved to talk page - citation / verification is needed:

The version 2 product release sparked interest from a Fortune 10 communications company to co-jointly develop version 3.[citation needed] After 2 years of joint development, and 6 months of testing and security reviews performed by the F10 company and IBM security, a completely new client version (with C# .NET based meeting servers) was released. The F10 company has since used the product for 4 years to host over 500,000 meetings.
 * I'd hold back a bit on the details of the software. No need to be too detailed :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 08:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * But on the other hand, it's pretty good atm. If you think it's good and done, I'll make some copy-edits and further suggestions, if you wish (I might be so bold as to remove things, though ;-) Xavexgoem (talk) 09:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Please, go ahead and edit! Thank you so much. PS: did you see my posting on your page ? It wont post here?? Gary WebTrain (talk) 10:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops! Didn't see that :-p
 * I'll give it a go-over sometime today :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 22:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again.. :) Gary WebTrain (talk) 05:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

New message
Please see User talk:Athaenara. — Athaenara ✉  19:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

username
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia!

I hope not to seem unfriendly or make you feel unwelcome, but I noticed your username, and I am concerned that it might not meet Wikipedia's username policy. After you look over that policy, could we discuss that concern here?

I'd appreciate learning your own views, for instance your reasons for wanting this particular name, and what alternative username you might accept that avoids raising this concern.

You have several options freely available to you:
 * If you can relieve my concern through discussing it here, I can stop worrying about it.
 * If the two of us can't agree here, we can ask for help through Wikipedia's dispute resolution process, such as requesting comments from other Wikipedians. Wikipedia administrators usually abide by agreements reached through this process.
 * You can keep your contributions history under a new username. Visit Changing username and follow the guidelines there.

--Matilda talk 22:08, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I changed my username to GaryECampbell :) Gary WebTrain (talk) 04:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Your proposed article on WebTrain Communications should be either finished or deleted
Hello Gary. There is a discussion at the WP:COIN noticeboard on what to do with the draft article on your user page. It needs to gain approval from regular editors that it meets the standards of a normal article. It may not yet be at that point. Can you estimate how much more time you will need to finish the work you have in mind? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 02:53, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * For the time being, as per the discussions on Wikipedia talk:User page and Conflict of interest/Noticeboard, I have moved the text to User:Gary WebTrain/Sandbox. — Athaenara  ✉  15:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Ed. Yes, I agree it is not ready, to my surprise Cindy posted the article. If it is not too much trouble, can you review the links at Articles_for_deletion/WebTrain ? Are they notable enough ? Thanks in advance.

AfD nomination of WebTrain
An article that you have been involved in editing, WebTrain, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/WebTrain. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Matilda talk 21:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I posted a response at the Articles for deletion/WebTrain page, is this what I am supposed to do ? Gary WebTrain (talk) 23:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * yes :-) --Matilda talk 00:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I read a posting about a suggestion to change my user name. My name is Gary Campbell, I am the CTO and founder of WebTrain, am a hardcore software developer for 23 years. Where can I change my user name ? Also ADMIN's seem to use an alias, I have no problem using my real name, do you suggest I use my given name? Gary WebTrain (talk) 03:54, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

I changed my username as suggested. Gary WebTrain (talk) 04:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

My Name should now be GaryECampbell GaryECampbell (talk) 19:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all your work - good luck with the company and the article! :-) --Matilda talk 07:43, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Help
How do I object to a blatant advertising article and their biased unreferenced changes to existing articles ? Thanks in advance. GaryECampbell (talk) 22:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you think that an article reads like an advertisement, you can place advertisement on it. Also, if someone is making biased edits, you can let them know on their talk page. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 22:06, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I assume that's what you meant, by the way. If not, please let me know what exactly you mean. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 22:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm horrible at dispute resolution, but one thing you might want to do is file a request for comment to attract the attention of other editors. Ten Pound Hammer  and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 23:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I did that. GaryECampbell (talk) 02:55, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

re moving
I'd wait.. too much overhead, and the fact tags need to be covered :-) Xavexgoem (talk) 03:10, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Barnstar of Diligence
A Barnstar of Diligence in recognition of the dedication you've shown in your efforts to comply with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Athaenara ✉  19:26, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. In regards to other references, 2 of the directors of WebTrain (the CEO and the President) were previously covered in Time, papers, tv, etc. They took a company public (ELI EcoLogic), inventing a green process that destroys PCB's (using an patented chemical destruction process).  Rather than burn PCB's, the process separates the molecules and creates clean methane that is burnt off.  The CEO was also Front Page Challenge many years ago when he discovered certain chemicals in the great lakes.  Somehow he peeved off Richard Burton and caused him to walk off that set. heh.  Since there are many excellent references to their patent, invention and public offering, etc, should director references be included in the article ?

on those changes
Things taken directly from the source should be in quotes, and I figure that the reverse takeover is a part of the history, which is why I made it a child of history (so that the table of contents reads):

History
 * Reverse Takeover

Technology
 * Security

Impact References Links

I guess some of that is style-based (aside from the quoted material) Xavexgoem (talk) 10:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

User:RHaworth ?? reported Gary WebTrain is a sockpuppet of User:GaryECampbell. I renamed my account as per comments and instructions from Wikipedians, all my edits are marked, obviously it's a mistake. What do I do ?
 * I have edited your userpage to remove the sockpuppet notice. Xavexgoem has also contacted the user to state that a username change was filed and completed here. It should hopefully be taken care of, but let us know if you have any further problems. Many thanks, Gazimoff Write Read 16:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. GaryECampbell (talk) 17:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

June 25
This is the only warning you will receive. Your recent vandalism will not be tolerated. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Micov (talk • contribs)

June 25
Please stop. If you continue to remove content from pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Micov (talk • contribs)

June 25
It might not have been your intention, but your recent edit removed content from. Please be careful not to remove content from Wikipedia without a valid reason, which you should specify in the edit summary or on the article's talk page. Take a look at our welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Micov (talk • contribs)

Response by Matilda

 * Not sure what Micov is excited about. A suggestion to both editors to review WP:OWN - no one owns articles on wikipedia --Matilda talk 08:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * She let me know she had posted changes, I was working on the article at the same time and over-wrote her changes. I never received an edit conflict error, but I did receive a "Servers are not working" error, when I hit F5, it resubmitted and seemed OK at the time.  I left a message on her page about it.  Sorry. GaryECampbell (talk) 08:14, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Everytime GaryECampbell edits the page, the image is removed, looked like vandalism. Then after I updated a major section on WebTrain GaryECampbell had removed it. I dont own the article, I know THAT. Just a little concerned about the loss of image [many times over] and removal of a few paragraphs. Cindy Flynn (talk) 20:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see you never correctly included the image in the page. I have now done so.  Not sure which paragrapghs you are referring to. If you need a hand ask for it :-) --Matilda talk 22:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The bot came around and removed the image. I removed the image logo reference (tag) in the infobox (on userpage sandbox) because it was generating a very large and prominent 'image removed by bot' notice. Micov, sorry about that content overwrite, when I updated the content from the my sandbox page (by copying the content from the sandbox), the post generated a server failure notice.  When I hit F5, it seemed to be repost ok, it did not generate an edit-collision warning.  That's when your content was over-written and the image reference was removed.  Sorry for causing the loss of your edits. GaryECampbell (talk) 04:08, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Concern about the content in the Lead section
After viewing other web conferencing Wikipedia vendor articles like Glance Networks, WebHuddle, Convenos Meeting Center, WebEx, Adobe Acrobat Connect, Live Meeting and PictureTalk, I am under the opinion that the lead section should be more definitive of what WebTrain is and provides.

Also, after reviewing the other articles, it becomes evident the lead looks too advertisy.

Would the following content be more reflective of what WebTrain is? (note I made bullets for the content below, I am not suggesting to format the lead as such)


 * WebTrain is a small private Canadian company that has provided web conferencing for 7 years (since their 2001 v1 release).
 * While many vendors provide different software solutions for different vertical markets (sales presentations, educational training, webinar ticklers, business meetings), WebTrain's philosophy is to provide a single product suitable for many.
 * Due to WebTrain's Canadian background, a French Canadian language version is also available.
 * WebTrain is not a market leader, it is not well known in comparison to WebEx, LiveMeeting or Adobe.
 * WebTrain has been recognized by a number of 3rd party sources, it is more prominently recognized by Canadian provincial governments, Canadian universities and Canadian technology associations.
 * Reviews of the product and matrix comparisons (to other vendors) have been published by multiple sources.
 * WebTrain's product is VoIP focussed, teleconferencing services are not provided but any 3rd party teleconferencing service can be used with the product.
 * WebTrain provides a unique service to autioneers, broadcasting floor auctions live (with audio) to Internet real time bidders.
 * Their client software runs as a component within IE, Opera, FireFox and Netscape 8 browsers.
 * WebTrain meetings are SSL based, the product has been security reviewed by IBM. McAfee states no security concerns about the product.
 * WebTrain's servers are located at MCI WorldCom, Vancouver, British Columbia. XML API services (back-office functions) are hosted from the same location.
 * WebTrain's office is located in Kelowna, British Columbia, a subsidiary support office is located in Germany.
 * WebTrain provides 24x7 call-back support.
 * The company's CEO and Chairman is Dr. Doug Hallett, a notable scientist with public company experience.

The above seems to be more generalized and less advertisy, while at the same time, more informative of what WebTrain is. (I'm finally getting my head around this - What WebTrain is...) Since the content is more generalized, multiple references may be required per statement. However, since the content is similar (the change is more related to style), existing references could be used.

That's about it for my comments about the lead. Comments are welcome and I invite you to browse the other vendor articles (links at the top of this section) to determine content sections and writing style that is more acceptable and common for articles like this. And by all means, feel free take the bull by the horns and edit the article. GaryECampbell (talk) 06:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally I do believe that as is, the article is encyclopedic in nature. It does need more work, but thanks to the efforts of GaryECampbell we have a respectable article here. I'd like to find a cite for the claims in the impact section, atlest a cite showing that its/was used by 'John Hobskins' for video. That is a very well known institution, and that alone brings pretty good notability. Cindy Flynn (talk) 08:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree (about the impact section), but a 3rd party reference for John Hopkins will be difficult, only a 2nd party reference from their website is available. I'm kinda wondering about the entire impact section, reliable 3rd party references will be difficult to get unless the organizations make a press release regarding how WebTrain is impacting their organization. I doubt if such will occur before AfD deadline.  The Impact section is a nice concept, but... GaryECampbell (talk) 09:23, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Congrats
I'm glad your article passed AfD. No need to thank me, I dident do that much. I'd suggest you just edit sandbox page, and then make a copy to the article page when you've made major improvements. I find this easyer then making 100 tiny improments to the article. --- this doesn't mean that you shouldent fix miss spellings and errors, but things such as adding cites and adding content can be added in a large budle of edits. Cindy Flynn (talk) 08:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Comment - I'm glad too. But I was thinking, other people might edit the WebTrain article, and those edits would get over-written when the sandbox content was pasted. Also, I'm kinda wondering what I should do with all the discussion content.  Is it archived?  Is content automatically removed ? Do I have rights to remove content on my talk page?  Is there an archive function?  Should the sandbox content be deleted?  (Much of the discussion content is not really required anymore).  Geez, I asked alot of questions eh? (I'm a Canadian eh!) - Comments?  GaryECampbell (talk) 08:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be more usual to do all future editing on the WebTrain article in main space. I suggest you blank the sandbox version of the article; everything that used to be there will be kept in the history in case it is needed later. You could do the same to the sandbox talk page, which has very little content anyway. EdJohnston (talk) 20:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)