User talk:Dzlinker/Archive 3

Your edits to Algeria
Don't remove the French name of Algeria from the article's lede, as you did in this edit, without seeking consensus for your changes first. Willfully ignoring requests to do so again might get you blocked.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:46, 4 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi! Please don't remove the French name. We had discussions at Talk:Algeria. Even though French is not official, in reality it is the major language of business and commerce, and non-Arabized Algerian government agencies use the French language. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:29, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


 * hi yourself!
 * many reasons pushed me to delete the french words..
 * first, this is an English encyclopedia, take a look into Britannica or any other encyclopedia you don't find the french name in in the lead (here...)!! second no citation to prove your "it is the major language of business and commerce", which is not true in my opinion, and far from being consensual. Then i don't think it's important to any one to know the french word for Algeria!
 * cheers. Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 10:38, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "first, this is an English encyclopedia," - It's customary to put the forms of all of the languages used in a country in the lead of the article. That does not follow.
 * "second no citation to prove your "it is the major language of business and commerce"" - There has been a citation used not only in the infobox (from the CIA World Factbook) but also multiple citations in the Languages of Algeria article. Someone removed this citation from the infobox of the article.
 * Before your first edit: 0:433 9 March 2013 you can see a citation for "Other languages" - If you follow the citation it takes you to the CIA World Factbook. Select "People ::ALGERIA" and the languages are: "Arabic (official), French (lingua franca), Berber dialects: Kabylie Berber (Tamazight), Chaouia Berber (Tachawit), Mzab Berber, Tuareg Berber (Tamahaq)"
 * The first edit you added English (which is not mentioned by the CIA World Factbook) before French
 * Then French is fact tagged, while attention wasn't paid to the citation next door - then against what the internal comments said, you removed the French
 * " which is not true in my opinion, and far from being consensual. Then i don't think it's important to any one to know the french word for Algeria!" - Opinions are trumped by what reliable sources say.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 13:08, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Some other issues: This citation you inserted is just Arabic text, not organized in any meaningful way (title, volume, author, etc.)

In this edit also "10% Tuareg-Berber and sub-Saharan African" was changed to "10% Europeans and black Africans}}" - The CIA World Factbook says "Arab-Berber 99%, European less than 1%" - So I'm going with what the CIA World Factbook says WhisperToMe (talk) 13:14, 10 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Laws were passed to prohibit the use of french within the state facilities, universities, and even in private media.. the french speakers are mostly emigrants french-algerians, arabs who immigrated to france during the past century, so they speak french, it's part of there culture... this book says it all
 * Algerians of Algeria "they" speak berber and/or arabic, some of them speak french as a second or third language..
 * This is a leading part of a general purpose article, we shoudn't get into langua-franca and other linguistic details, we should just cite the official and national languages, as recognized by the constitution of the country....... details should go to the main article in languages of Algeria; that's it.
 * The arabic text is quoted from a berberist named Matoub Lounes, it says that algerians who think they're arabs should just go to arabia. It's racist but it illustrates the berberist ideology.
 * It's okey we can keep with Arab-Berber 99%, European less than 1%      as CIA-fb says.
 * Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 14:25, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I am aware of the attempts to "Arabize" everything. Based on the literature I read (as of 2008), it was not entirely successful (the Languages of Algeria article covers it) and French is still common in many government departments. One source even said that the Algerian government was backtracking from trying to Arabize everything circa 2008. Regarding "some of them speak french as a second or third language" - Often second and third languages are still prominent in a country (many official languages are spoken as second or third languages!), official or not and they are listed on Wikipedia country templates. For instance, in South Sudan the official language is English, but the recognized national languages are also listed. The stuff found in the CIA Factbook is the stuff which can be succinctly used in an infobox as Arabic (official), Berber, and French. Also lingua francas are considered quite important in the context of a country or a region.
 * Having said that I'm glad that you found that book on Algeria's languages, so I am going to see if I can use it in the Languages of Algeria article
 * The Arabic text should be formatted in a way outlined at Citing sources, so people can easily find the text and read it. Put the following things in English and the original Arabic: The author (last and first), title, publisher, year and/or date published, Volume and issue Number (if applicable), page number, and quote from the book. It may help to link to a Worldcat entry to make it easier to find the book. If it is on Google Books that's even better as one can link to the page which has the quote.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 18:24, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * From what I could gather there is no doubt that French continues to have a major role in Algerian society, much more so than English in Egypt for example. As the languages section of the article puts it, Algeria is the second Francophone country in the world and in 2008 it can be written and read by one third of all Algerians (and surveys who report similarly large numbers for other foreign languages use the much lower threshold of just 'speaking some' of that language). The book found by Dzlinker could certainly be useful, but it needs to be properly used as a source (taking care to include the page number) to support any statements in mainspace. From a rapid search it seems like the Arabization effort was rolled back in the last few years: "In 1971, officials said, the Arabization project began in earnest, when French was prohibited as a language of education. […] Over the years, the government has pushed back, reintroducing French, removing the most zealous religious teachers and trying to revise the religious curriculum." source.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:50, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The book is explaining where French is still being used in the Algerian educational system (high school science classes, etc) and it also explains how French is still prominent in Algerian society. Expect more new content at Languages of Algeria WhisperToMe (talk) 09:05, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice document you got there, but as i said, i think all of this should go to the appropriate article. I should mention too that Algeria isn't par tof the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie, even if it is the second most francophone one. I suggest also this article The Syndrome of the French Language in Algeria. This other article Algeria-Language qualifies french language as a lingua non gratta.. and gives details of the 1998 "Arabic Language Generalisation Law". Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 23:06, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The details are already in the Languages of Algeria article, but the fact that French is a significant language in Algeria needs to be reflected in the main article. To do this, include the French Algérie in the lead. Stick to the CIA World Factbook in terms of what languages are spoken there. I am aware Algeria is not a part of the Francophonie, while neighboring Tunisia and Morocco are. It may have to do with politics (perhaps there are references that delve into this). The UK source you said reflected a 1998 law which seems to have not had the effect intended. As for the Maamri article, thank you for showing me, but I've already used it in the Languages of Algeria article and it also shows that French is still significant in Algerian society. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:03, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Plus the British source p. 2 says "Yet Arabic is rarely heard in Kabylie, where Berber and French are spoken. In reality, French is the lingua franca of Algeria." WhisperToMe (talk) 06:20, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it's clear that "Algérie" should be listed in the lead. If you want to discuss this further, please start a post in WikiProject Algeria, or failing that, an RFC on it WhisperToMe (talk) 22:07, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think, in addition to what was said, it would be too much. We've got it in 3 languages already! -Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 22:15, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe the sources illustrate that there are three languages in Algeria that are important. Some countries have even more official languages than that (South Africa has over 10, and Switzerland has four and the article for Switzerland mentions the name in those four languages) WhisperToMe (talk) 22:23, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The south african ones are indigenous languages. In Switzerland, there are people who speak only one of the four, French in Algeria is may be used, but still it is secondary, and many are trying to get rid of it. Let's focus on the purpose of the article, it's in english for english speaker.. -Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 22:31, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Standard Arabic (as opposed to Algerian Arabic) is also not an indigenous language to Algeria. Does this mean we get rid of Standard Arabic? WhisperToMe (talk) 01:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Anyhow I started Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Algeria WhisperToMe (talk) 04:20, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Please see the latest post there WhisperToMe (talk) 23:29, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

templates
Hi, I noticed that you voted in Templates_for_discussion/Log/2013_March_17, you said "every one of them could be improved". I just wondered how we can improve template:Israfil, as it is composed of only two links, may be used by one page only, uses decorative colors violating Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes mentioning infoboxes should not be arbitrarily decorative, has content violating Template_namespace line 14 that mentions template shouldn't have content. If you can not substantiate you vote please withdraw your comment because we are trying to cleanup pages by deleting some of the templates and your vote may adversely affect our efforts.Kiatdd (talk) 08:39, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sir, another editor replied to your comment in tfd. Besides you didn't explain how we can possibly fix template israfil and other similar oddities in template space, I suggest following wikipedia manual of style guidelines which I explained to you in my previous message, rather than "personal opinions". I still haven't seen you substantiate your comments based on these guidelines.Kiatdd (talk) 07:34, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

breaking coordinates links
I [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Annaba&action=edit&undoafter=551106669&undo=551194549 reverted] your edits since they appear to have not had any positive impact on the article, and broken the coordinates link in the infobox. Frietjes (talk) 22:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Berber Revolt
Bonjour Dzlinker, j'ai besoin de votre aide sur cet article, car vous maitrisez mieux le Wiki english. Suite à cela : Merci pour ton aide. Cdlt.--Waran18 (talk) 11:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Tlemcen se situe en Algérie pas au Maroc
 * 2) si l'Algérie n’existait pas à cette époque, le Maroc non plus
 * 3) la dynastie rostémide n'a pas régné sur une zone de Tahert mais la majeur partie de l'Algérie hors zones vides (Nord, Centre, en incluant les oasis du nord du Sahara algérien) et les sources ne manquent pas
 * 4) si le fondateur de la dynastie est d'origine persane, la dynastie est surtout ibadite, je connais pas encore un auteur qu'il la qualifie de dynastie persane, alors que le royaume est berbère.
 * Merci, mais le problème c'est qu'il fait un passage de force contradictoire avec les sources, par exemple, cette source dit: "a dynasty that would reign over a large part of the central Maghreb until the arrival of the Fatimids." alors que lui il écrit "over the area of Tahert". De la majeur partie du Maghreb Central à la zone de Tahert, c'est un grave détournement de source, mais puisque vous, vous maitrisez l'anglais mieux que moi, vous pouvez signaler ce détournement de sources. Cdlt.--Waran18 (talk) 18:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * J'ai photographié les cartes originales du livre cité en référence :, , et la carte est truquée!. Il devra avoir une procédure pour supprimer cette carte--Waran18 (talk) 11:14, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Reminder: No Personal Attacks

 * You should really read WP:NPA one more time.
 * Next time I'll see something like this it will be reported to WP:ANI (even if you think that insulting somebody in French on the English Wiki doesn't matter, but you are wrong).
 * I hope that, this time, you understand it, after having been previously blocked for the same purpose... two times.
 * --Omar-toons (talk) 02:10, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Tu es là grosse pétasse !!! --— Mouh2jijel ''' &#91;Talk&#93; 13:24, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

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Maghrebian community of Paris
Hi! You may be interested in: Maghrebian community of Paris WhisperToMe (talk) 16:14, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject Women in Red/The World Contest
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Method of calculation== section in Salah times ==

Hi Dzlinker

I wanted to discuss my suggestion that we remove your very comprehensive section on prayer time calculation.

It's very interesting, but my concern is that it suggests that calculating the prayer times is a scientific challenge, when for the early Muslims simply looking at the sun's progress through the sky was enough.

I would prefer the Salah times page to simply mention the asbāb relied upon before the advent of modern clocks introduced the problem of the equation of time: those are the authentic prayer times, and calculated civil times can only be an approximation (though undoubtedly a very accurate approximation).

What do you think?

Salam/peace

Eteb3 (talk) 12:53, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

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Fixed your talk page archiving
Hi! I took the liberty of fixing the auto-archiving settings at the top of this page. I've also added Archives, so it'll link to the archives once they're created. --rchard2scout (talk) 08:29, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Cut-and-paste move
Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give a page a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

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 * Please note that the move you are pushing for is contentious, so you should really use the RM procedure. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 06:39, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

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