User talk:Earl.Zukerman

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McGill Redmen & McGill University
Please stop your deletions on these pages. The football suspension and Jennifer Heil's attendence are both verifiable facts. If you have issues with the wording, please discuss it on the articles' talk pages. Wikipedia is not about whitewashing or favoritism of one athelete over another. -- JLaTondre 01:25, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken, they are not both verifiable facts. Jennifer Heil is an accomplished athlete but NOT yet a graduate of McGill University (she has completed one third of her credits needed for a degree thus far and has not been enrolled at McGill since the spring of 2003. That segment is about famous McGill graduates and she does not yet qualify.
 * Okay, you are correct on this one. The initial reference I found on Google stated she had gone to McGill, but on checking her website, it does say she attends. -- JLaTondre 15:08, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * As for the so-called verifiable fact about the hazing incident, there has been much misinformation published about this and the reference posted is somewhat misleading and wide-sweeping. McGill's Redmen football program was indeed rocked by a hazing scandal in 2005 but only two games were cancelled by school officials. Nonetheless, if you did your homework, you would discover that hazing scandals have been making news on a larger scale, virtually every fall at many academic institutions in North America (especially in the USA) but I have seen only one other Wikpedia reference to a specific hazing at another school (Glenbrook North High School) listed on the Wikpedia site. One recent incident that comes to mind was the cancellation of the entire hockey season at the University of Vermont, yet this is not listed in Wikpedia. I can cite numerous other examples. The McGill hazing incident may be more appropriately listed under the definition of hazing, but it is not relevant under the McGill entry (there was no police involvement in the case, by the way). Also, by placing that reference under the definition of Redmen, you are painting all of McGill's 23 men's varsity teams with the same brush, when only the football team was actually implicated.
 * -- Earl.Zukerman 04:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Here you are incorrect. Specific incidents, unless extremely notable, do not belong under hazing, but under the institution where it occurred. It is relevant to McGill because it happened at McGill and involved the McGill football team. Police involvement is not material. If you believe the statement needs to clarify that the rest of the season was only two games, then feel free to do so, but please provide a reference to avoid further edit conflicts. The defense that "it's not included in other schools articles" is irrelevant. If that bothers you, then add similar cases to those institutions' articles with appropriate references. I would welcome those additions. I hardly see how placing it under McGill Redmen paints all teams when it specifically says the football team, but I won't argue the deletion there since that article is a generic description and does not include other specific events. By the way, you may wish to pay attention to the edit histories, I did not place either reference there. I'm simply trying to help contain the edit war over this that I stumbled over during vandal patrol. -- JLaTondre 15:08, 27 December 2005 (UTC) (PS. I took the liberty if reformating your comments to make them consistent with the Wikipedia talk page style).