User talk:Edentt13/sandbox

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Great observation that the “Recent Years” text is sparse and badly organized.

I’m not sure, however, that increased inclusivity would be a good addition, as The Abbey has a very poor record of staging work by women or people of colour.

I thought ways to improve this section, and the page more generally, might include a division of “Recent Years” into a more cogent and structured history, drawing on the vast scholarly literature that exists on The Abbey through the decades.

A comprehensive list of managing and artistic directors might help in telling the story of the artistic development of the theatre.

I also think the early years section could be developed, as could the section “After Yeats.”

In terms of tone, while it appears at first glance to be reasonably neutral, as an expert in the field I can see a lot of bias. The academic sources used, for example, are almost exclusively by men, while there are many excellent Irish theatre scholars who work on the Abbey, such as Anne Saddlemyer, Mary Trotter, and, of course, Lady Gregory herself, who wrote extensively about The Abbey in her text, Our National Theatre. I also note that the writers take Yeats’ departure as the moment of significant shift in the theatre’s direction. The historical record of the theatre would make a much stronger case for Lady Gregory’s death as the moment when the founding ethos of The Abbey is undermined by the Irish Free State. In other words, I see much gender bias in this account of Ireland’s national theatre.

In terms of your suggestion that the page should contain more information about the founders – it’s my understanding that this information should be on their individual pages rather than reiterated here. Again – I’ll ask Shalor to weigh in here.

I agree that clearer information on the architecture of the theatre, past and present, would help readers to learn more about it.

EmerOToole (talk) 17:17, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Peer Review by Charles Gao
Origins: I'd be curious to know what the other two bases were.

Early Years: I think it should be past tense - ' Lady Gregory documented the history '; why is Yeats' name in full, but Synge's name abbreviated?; I'd love to know in what ways Gregory's, Yeats', and Synge's correspondence contributed to the Abbey (was it plays they wrote for the abbey, publicly supporting the abbey or am I misunderstanding the point completely? ); the line about the Abbey finding popular success seems to contradict the line in the Origins sections about it presenting plays that "brought critical approval but limited public interest" - more clarification needed; maybe you could add what it means to be a "writers' theatre"?

Great work!

Charlesjgao (talk) 22:01, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi

Nice work here, particularly in finding potentially useful sources. I'd just like to build on 's feedback re wanting to know what's in the correspondence you gesture to. In relation to Our National Theatre, rather than just telling us that Lady Gregory wrote the book, tell us some important facts about The Abbey that you learned from the book and use the book itself as a reference. The same goes for Saddlemyer's Theatre Business: instead of telling us that Lady Gregory engaged in correspondence about the theatre, weave facts and details that you learned from reading those correspondences into the article and use the Saddlemyer collection as a reference. Really looking forward to seeing how this develops! EmerOToole (talk) 18:08, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi

A very good attempt made here to incorporate the feedback from Charles and from me, but you're not quite there in terms of addressing the major issue. The first sentence "Lady Gregory documented the history of the early performances of what was then known as the Irish National Theatre Society in her text, Our Irish Theatre" needs to go, because this information can be given more economically and elegantly by a simple citation. Next, instead of saying that Gregory provided details, give the readers the relevant details, and use a citation to show that they came from Gregory's text. For example, you might include a sentence that says "In the early years there were challenges in finding plays by Irish playwrights and so the founders [did X, Y, Z]." Then you would attribute this information to Gregory, using a citation. Similar work needs to be done by cutting the sentence that says "she exchanged correspondence" and, instead, telling the reader the relevant details of that correspondence.

When you say that Gregory envisions an "ancient idealism," this is an envisioning that she attributes to all the founding members of the INTS, so this should be a little clearer.

Synge was not, at the time he joined the INTS, considered one of the foremost English language dramatists of the age. He had yet to write a full length play.

I will lend you a book by Hugh Hunt on the chronology of The Abbey which I think will help you further here.

Looking forward to seeing you redraft the paragraph in dialogue with this feedback! EmerOToole (talk) 15:52, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi!{reply to|EmerOToole]}}

I hope this works, but I am going to email you at the same time just to make sure! I'm going to be honest this Wikipedia stuff is still quite daunting to me! I made some corrections to my work that you saw this Wednesday in class! Please let me what you think and if I should move it to Wikipedia or not!

Thank you Edentt13 (talk) 19:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC) Edentt13

Hi @EmerOToole

I hope I have tagged you in this correctly the first time, but I'm going to try a second just in case! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edentt13 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi

You edits look good. The only major problem I see is that there is now a disjuncture between the first and second part of the material on the 30s to 50s - the first part claims audiences continued to rise and the second that audiences continued to fall. These facts should be checked against each other. However, you do not need to make any further changes in order to complete the assignment. EmerOToole (talk) 21:20, 5 December 2018 (UTC)