User talk:Educationalfactsimlb

I am a family member of Carmen Beltrán. Whoever is keep on changing my changes, please stop it. I am a family member. Welcome to my talk page! Please tell me any comments you have. I have a picture of Carmen Beltrán that you will never find on the web and I'm one of the only two owners of the picture, I own the last copy of her poem book, and I change it to 1904 because her daughter, who is still alive and is my great-grandma, tells me it's 1904 and the sources lie. That's wwhy I have been changing it still. You cannot think that the person's own daughter is a secondary source, is it? I know a lot more about Carmen Beltrán than you or any other Wiki editor, so you must give me some credit for doing this. Hello, Massavin. It looks like you might want that picture...well, I am never going to put it on the Web. And I believe that you are hiding something...However, I am the same editor from a few months ago...okay, I want you to track down every relative of Carmen Beltrán, even me, and put them on the Wiki page. It will take you years to do that. Once you do that, tell me. I will be very impressed. Also if you can find the picture I told you about. Then I'll be very impressed.

New changes to my talk page. I do not want anybody saying I don't have a secondary source for Carmen Beltrán, because I do! I actually have FOUR sources!

I HAD ENOUGH OF THIS MADNESS.

Massavin, track me down...you will never find me...

Carmen Beltrán and Argument
Hi there! I am one of the co-authors of the Carmen Beltrán. I saw you were changing the dates of her birth year, and that you are related to her. First, thank you for your edits. You have probably noticed that a few editors, including me, have returned your change back to the 1905 date. This is because it's cited in reliable, secondary sources, as being 1905. Now, I know that's pretty absurd to hear since you are a relative of hers, but, the sources I find all say she was born in 1905. See, Wikipedia requires that reliable secondary sources are used to verify information (you can learn about what those are here.) - that means word of mouth, oral history, etc, can rarely be used. We are able verify dates of birth if we have birth certificate information or census data, perhaps. I suggest perhaps leaving a comment on the talk page of the article explaining the different date. I'm sorry to be so difficult, this is just how the process works - I just can't find any books or publications that state that she was born in 1904 :( Missvain (talk) 05:15, 9 December 2014 (UTC) I know a lot more about Carmen Beltràn than you. Well, I have a picture of her that you cannot find on the Web and I say 1904 because her own daughter, who is still alive, tells me it's 1904. You cannot say it's 1905 if her own daughter says it is not true.

Why it is 1904 and NOT 1905
She WAS born in 1904. NOT 1905. You are all making me angry. I have four sources of Carmen Beltrán. One of them is my eighty-four year old great-grandma, who is one of her daughters, and she tells me that she was born in 1904 and says they always lie about the whole 1905 thing. My great-grandma is still alive and is very wise so you cannot deny a daughter of Carmen Beltrán. Although I never got to meet my great-great grandmother, Carmen Beltràn, I still know a lot about her, thanks to my great-grandma. You cannot argue with an eighty-four year old. I also have a picture of Carmen Beltrán that you will never find on the Web. The original picture PRICELESS. You mine as well give me a million dollars and I will still not post the picture. And I have the last copy of her poem book. It is the LAST copy. I also know many last names from he generations, because I AM a family member. There is Beltràn, Baker, Moore, Lopez, Fiesca, and Bongeovoni. You CANNOT argue with a ton of sources.

Speedy deletion nomination of Carmen Beltràn Arguments


A tag has been placed on Carmen Beltràn Arguments, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

WP:NOT, WP:NOR per WP:SNOW.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Anupmehra - Let's talk!  02:48, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Carmen Beltràn Arguments
Hello Educationalfactsimlb,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Carmen Beltràn Arguments for deletion in response to your request.

If you didn't intend to make such a request and don't want the article to be deleted, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. War wizard90 (talk) 03:25, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The need for reliable sources
Hello, Educationalfactsimlb, and welcome to editing Wikipedia. I see you have been having trouble with your editing, with people reverting edits that you are sure are correct, because of your personal knowledge as a family member. I know exactly how frustrating that can be, as I had a similar experience shortly after I first started editing Wikipedia. However, over the course of time, as I have developed more experience of editing Wikipedia, I have come to realise that there are, in fact, very good reasons for the policy that we need reliable sources that can be verified by other people, and we don't accept "you can take my word for it, as I [am a member of the family]/[was there at the time and saw it myself]/[work for the business concerned myself]/[am the person referred to in the article]/[etc etc] as reliable evidence. For one thing, there is nothing to stop anyone creating a Wikipedia account and lying about who they are (and that does happen frequently, unfortunately). Secondly, very often someone with a personal involvement often has an axe to grind, and a reason to represent things in a way of their choosing. Thirdly, being personally involved is no guarantee of reliability: for many years I thought my own father's year of birth was one year different from what it really was, as I had misremembered a fact: I though he was 24 when I was born, but in fact he was 24 in the year in which I was born, which is, of course, not the same thing. For those and other similar reasons, we do not and cannot accept "you can take my word for it, because I am an insider and know" as reliable evidence. If you can produce a verifiable reliable source that says that the sources already provided are wrong, then that will be fine, but if you can't then you will just have to accept things as they are, even if you are personally convinced there is a slight inaccuracy.

Another point is that when different editors disagree about content of an article, for them to each keep reverting the article to their preferred version, known as edit warring, is disruptive. Instead, the way to deal with disagreements is to explain one's reasons, and be willing to discuss the issues, with a view to trying to reach agreement. Editors who persist in edit warring may be blocked from editing, irrespective of whether their edits are right, wrong, or merely personal preferences. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 13:07, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

After I posted the message above, I found that you had created a page Carmen Beltràn Arguments in order to discuss the issues involved. I am pleased to see that you were willing to start discussion about it, but the place for such discussions is the article's talk page, in this case Talk:Carmen Beltrán. Wikipedia can be very confusing for a new editor, and even when you want to do something constructive (in this case starting a discussion), it can be very difficult to find how to do it, until you have had some experience of how things work. I am posting (above) a rather belated "welcome" message, which has links to various policies, guidelines and other pages that may be helpful. Unfortunately, in my opinion Wikipedia has far too many policies and guidelines, and most of them are far too long and complicated, so don't try to read and learn everything before you make any more edits, but do look at any of them that seem to be relevant to your current needs, and come back to them in the future if new needs arise. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 13:16, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

One more thing. Please feel very welcome to contact me on my talk page at User talk:JamesBWatson if you have any questions. I can't promise to be able to give you the help you need, but there is a fair chance I will be able to. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 13:20, 16 December 2014 (UTC)