User talk:Ee212

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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Atlantic306 (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Kobi Arad
Hi, thanks for your message. The allegation you made is extremely unlikely to be correct and the reasons on the prod notice are legitimate concerns.To put things in context; about 2000 articles are deleted every week on Wikipedia

The main problem I noticed with the article is that a lot of the references are dead links so those need to be fixed or replaced, also the article does not make clear enough that he passes any of the criteria of WP:Musicbio. Anyone is allowed to remove the Proposed Deletion notice for any/no reason and that will stop the proposed deletion process, then the article would probably be nominated for WP:AFD where a discussion would take place for 1-3 weeks to decide whether to keep or delete at which anyone can take part in the discussion. thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 18:10, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The article has unfortunately now been deleted because it had been Salted, the draft version is still there though for working on and improving but before submitting for review it might be best to check with the deleting admin User:Anachronist about whether it can go through, Atlantic306 (talk) 15:26, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Please work on Draft:Kobi Arad, and submit it for review only after addressing the concerns already stated by the reviewers. ~Anachronist (talk) 10:53, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

Thank you both for suggestions for improvement. Although Troutman has accused Peter Pattern of coi, I brought his attention to this discussion, so he / other editors could address you requests

Gentlemen, three questions:

1. My name is Michael, Arad's manager, and therefore do not edit his articles. Is it ok if I ask an editor-frnd to edit the draft (I already before asked my frnd Peter Pattern)?

2. Does the following notability specifics seem fair as to be incorporated within the draft:

Subject meets notability in following sections:

WP:GNG

Non trivial and objective coverage by reliable sources such as: ynet.com, Jewish Week, All About Jazz (article) and Israel Times.

WP:MUSICBIO (Although single section notability is sufficient, subject meets notability in 4 different sections)

Section1: Multiple Reliable Publications:

● http://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/4182867 ● https://www.allaboutjazz.com/sketches-of-imaginary-landscapes-kobi-arad-self-produced-review-by-glenn-astarita.php?width=412 ● http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/for-jewish-artists-a-space-of-ones-own/

Section 6: Several of Kobi Arad's projects, featured several notable musicians:

● 'Sufi Songs' Trio featuring Bob Moses (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Moses_(musician) and Cecil Mcbee (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_McBee)

Sources:

-http://www.tunedloud.com/2017/07/05/kobi-arad-ellington-upside-down-as-a-musical-portrait-of-the-jazz-titan/

- https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/community_feed/jazz_pianist_kobi_arad_a_career_overview.html

● Grammy Awards- Claes Nobel Team Participating Notable musicians: Wouter Kellerman, Brent Fischer, Robert Margouleff, Mickey Stevenson, Ganda Boys

Sources: - http://fmwebtv.com/TheForgottenPeople/ -https://article.wn.com/view/2017/01/24/Kobi_Arad_Performs_with_Members_of_Israeli_Orchestra_in_Tel_/ - https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/community_feed/jazz_pianist_kobi_arad_a_career_overview.html

Section 7:

● Arad is a world-wide authority in the Third Stream style, as he is the first and only (as of 2012) musician to earn doctorate in the field.

Sources: - Letter from Dean of New England Conservatory of Music to Kobi Arad (dating 2012): https://issuu.com/kobiarad/docs/novak_letter -https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_stream

- http://m.ynet.co.il/Articles/4182867

Section 9:

Arad participted in multitude of interviews which featured panel discussions, airplay and interviews in Israeli National Radio, IBA (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Broadcasting_Authority).

Sources:

- http://www.tunedloud.com/2017/07/05/kobi-arad-ellington-upside-down-as-a-musical-portrait-of-the-jazz-titan/ - https://issuu.com/zmiralu/docs/selection (Letter from Iba editor Zmira Luzki) - https://issuu.com/acum9/docs/5_7_1_ (BMI international airplay statements) - https://issuu.com/acum9/docs/9 (BMI international airplay statements)

3. In case the requirements are fulfilled (links are alive, and you find #2 satisfactory, are you going to be willing to assist in living the draft and unsalt 'Kobi Arad' article?

Thanks :=)


 * In answer to your points:
 * 1. Thanks for disclosing your conflict of interest. This doesn't prevent you from editing drafts. In fact, a draft article submitted for review via WP:AFC is the only viable venue for an editor with a conflict of interest. After the article is published in main article space, COI editors are expected to refrain from making any further substantive changes, although it's still OK to correct minor errors (spelling, grammar, numbers, etc.), revert obvious vandalism, and add citations to reliable secondary sources. Anyone you know, whom you might ask for editing help, also has a conflict of interest with the same restrictions.
 * 2. I won't comment on the sources here, except to say that you seem to be misinterpreting criterion 6. Kobi Arad would need to be a prominent member of at least two notable ensembles that are notable independently of Kobi Arad. Having at least two notable musicians in an ensemble doesn't confer notability to Kobi Arad; it confers notability to the ensemble. That being said, at first glance it looks like at least one of the WP:MUSICBIO criteria are met.
 * 3. Any administrator would be willing to unsalt the main space article and move the draft to main space after it passes review. Further discussion about addressing problems during review should take place on Draft talk:Kobi Arad. ~Anachronist (talk) 06:07, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree, WP:AFC is the only option. It can be a long process and some drafts are refused five or more times before they are accepted, thanks Atlantic306 (talk) 13:18, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

I appreciate both of your feedbacks.

FYI confronted Troutman with similar questions, to which he replied in cold manner, ignored notability specifics, and discouraed from attempting to edit (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Chris_troutman#/talk/33). I am worried he would continue to place obstacles. It seems he is just doesnt like the subject.

Anyhow, I shall contact admin / Beaurrocrat BD2412, who edited and reviewed French translation favorably before it was deleted, to ask his opinion re notability specifics and unsalting the article,

Thanks :=)


 * I can see that Chris Troutman's replies may appear harsh, but I understand where he is coming from. Kobi Arad has been the subject of a lengthy campaign to disrupt Wikipedia over the course of many years, so it is unlikely that any established editors will be sympathetic towards his cause. Discussions have repeatedly concluded that Mr Arad does not meet the notability criteria required for an article on Wikipedia. Please see the following for some of the background to this case:
 * Sockpuppet investigations/Knoblauch129
 * Sockpuppet investigations/MusicLover650
 * Articles for deletion/Kobi Arad
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music/Contemporary music task force/Archive 9
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music/Contemporary music task force/Archive 17
 * --Deskford (talk) 06:39, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

Deskford: There are new articles and new evidence for notability. Just because a subject did not meet notability due to either poor editing / poor sourcing in the past, doesnt mean it should be ignored at the present. Please refer to notability specifics. Anyhow, if no response from you, assume you prefer staying out of this, but dont oppose other administrator unsalting this page,

Thanks :=)