User talk:Eewilson/Archive 001

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This is a manual archive of my talk page through December 2020. Minimal history is on the history tab for this page. Most of the history is found on the history tab at User talk:Eewilson where the changes were originally made.

Ways to improve New Hope Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating New Hope Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources to this and the others you've created.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:47, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Barringer Township
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Barringer Township!

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The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 13:54, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Bethany Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Bethany Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 13:55, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Chambersburg Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Chambersburg Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

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Boleyn (talk) 13:58, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Strahan, Iowa
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Strahan, Iowa!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 17:52, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Coddle Creek Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Coddle Creek Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 17:58, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Eagle Mills Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Eagle Mills Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:14, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Cool Springs Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Cool Springs Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:17, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Statesville Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Statesville Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:17, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Shiloh Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Shiloh Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:18, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Sharpesburg Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Sharpesburg Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:18, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Olin Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Olin Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:19, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Fallstown Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Fallstown Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:20, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Davidson Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Davidson Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:20, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Concord Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Concord Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Ways to improve Turnersburg Township, Iredell County, North Carolina
Hi, I'm Boleyn. Eewilson, thanks for creating Turnersburg Township, Iredell County, North Carolina!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add your sources.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse.

Boleyn (talk) 14:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Chasmanthe aethiopica moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Chasmanthe aethiopica, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Roller26 (talk) 10:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Taxonomy and typification
Hi! I was getting ready to reply to your comment on the Symphyotrichum lateriflorum talk page and it was gone. I noticed you reverted it. I was going to tell you that I had been to the websites you linked to. Maybe you saw my previous comments after you wrote that? I hope that was all it was and not that I offended you by taking so long to respond. I thought I'd move our discussion about my ICN questions to my talk page so Casliber, Plantdrew, and others who are following the discussion about getting Symphyotrichum lateriflorum ready for GA nomination don't get pinged. I appreciate your offer to help. —Eewilson (talk) 05:37, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed your talk about it afterward and I reverted myself to not make a fool, since it looked like what you wanted to know was very different XD Figured I better wait to hear your questions ^_^;; Circéus (talk) 12:49, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi! My first question (it's complicated) has to do with the difference between homotypes and heterotypes at the species level and below. I think I understand that a homotype to a currently accepted species is one that is described with/attached to the same type (homo = same), and that a heterotype is not (hetero = different). It would make sense that the basionym is automatically homotypic, but it's not really called that because we say 'basionym' to be more specific.
 * Using Symphyotrichum lateriflorum as an example, Solidago lateriflora L. is the basionym, Aster lateriflorus (L.) Britton is a homotype, and the rest of the synonyms are heterotypes.
 * (A current chronological list of the taxonomic synonyms for Symphyotrichum lateriflorum, with all initial publications and references, can be found on the Wikispecies page. I know it's current because I recently updated it from POWO and IPNI. Symphyotrichum lateriflorum.)
 * If, however, one of the other synonyms had also used Solidago lateriflora L. as its basionym, would it also be a homotype (barring any other circumstances that would change it)?
 * Would that still be true if one of those is an infraspecies?
 * My complicated question which asks the same as that, I think, is what if someone (last name "NewPerson") decided or discovered (this is obviously not happening, but it has happened with others, so for illustrative purposes) that Symphyotrichum lateriflorum was actually a subspecies of Symphyotrichum ontarionis, and NewPerson named it Symphyotrichum ontarionis (Wiegand) G.L.Nesom subsp. lateriflorum (L.) NewPerson, and it was accepted? Would all of its taxonomic synonyms then become the same category of type to the subspecies as what they are currently to the species (basionym, homotype, heterotype)? Eewilson (talk) 02:23, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * First, a vocabulary note: I have never seen the terms "homotype" and "heterotype" in any discussion of taxonomenclature. I believe you are assuming the adjectives "homotypic" and "heterotypic" are based on defined roots. They are not. Or at least their use is uncommon at best.
 * As for infraspecific names: yes, any name with the basionym of Solidago lateriflora L. (i.e. names concerned by art. 41 of the code) or which is a superfluous name for it (i.e. names concerned by art. 52.1-3) will bbe an homotypic synonym of it. This applies to both demotion of a species to an infraspecific rank and to the raising of an infraspecific rank to species (as well as any movements between different infraspecific ranks).
 * This is almost certainly because I've been steeped in nomenclature so much that it's kind of second nature to me. I'm not sure how "Would all of its taxonomic synonyms then become the same category of type to the subspecies as what they are currently to the species (basionym, homotype, heterotype)?" can even be a question. I mean, you cannot possibly declare that a name is both a species and an infraspecific taxon under a different species, so (with the principle that a taxon with a given circumscription and rank can only have one valid name) what other possibility is there even but for these names to all be synonyms of each others? Circéus (talk) 11:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, I sure did make nouns out of "homotypic" and "heterotypic." Made sense to me at the time! Thank you for that correction.
 * In my example, there would be only the new name, not both. You answered my question with "This applies to both demotion of a species to an infraspecific rank and to the raising of an infraspecific rank to species (as well as any movements between different infraspecific ranks)." I wasn't sure if a homotypic synonym could apply between a change of ranks. So, with most plant species and infraspecies, as long as I know the basionym, can I determine the homotypic and heterotypic synonyms providing I have the authors as a part of the name? I'm trying to make this easy on myself. Think of it as nomenclature for dummies (although I am not a dummy, but reading the Code sure makes me feel like one).
 * The Wikispecies page for Symphyotrichum ascendens is one where I have yet to divide the synonyms. I think that the only homotypic synonym is Virgulaster ascendens (Lindl.) Semple. I am basing that on the original author being Lindley, same as the basionym Aster ascendens Lindl.. Should I be able to tell that just by looking at the information given on the list on the Wikispecies page? I mean, I could also check IPNI for the basionym for each one, but that seems like a long and drawn out process that should be unnecessary if I understand how it works. Eewilson (talk) 12:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * re: determining homotypic synonyms, in theory yes, but you occasionally run into cases of homonymous later combinations. Personally I always double-check and give the exact reference and never give abbreviated references for names in Wikispecies anymore (although I haven't been doing wikispecies editing in a while). I believe it is sloppy and misleading and multiply the risk of perpetuating errors no matter the accuracy of the source that I'm copying that abbreviation from (I've seen all sorts of errors, even in very complete citations and catalogues, from not distinguishing roman vs arabic numbered pages to citing an entirely wrong/misleading journal, so I consider double-checking a key part of the process). It's not a formal aspect of the styleguide, but it's been repeatedly discussed on Wikispecies Village Pump and agreed it is an undesirable format on both general and specific (cf. Wägele et al. 2011 & Payne et al. 2014) principles. Personally I think the result (e.g. species:Solanum americanum) also just plain looks more authoritative.
 * A good example of somewhat mindless copypasting is right there on the S. ascendens wikispecies page: Why is the author attribution for "Aster chilensis subsp. adscendens" different from that of A. adscendens? I'm assuming this is Cronquist's attribution (i.e. he believed lindley to not be the author to which the name ought to be attributed), but you cannot assert a name to have essentially two different authors in a synonymy list! You have to make your bed somewhere and assign one author to a name as well as all its later combinations/new ranks. It's also an interesting question what is up with that purported var. euadscendens, since that is probably not even a validly published name in the first place (Art. 24.3 of the code). These cases cannot be verified without consulting the relevant original publications. Circéus (talk) 13:06, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Possible source for Symphyotrichum lateriflorum
Have you seen this work, which covers a historical view. Hardyplants (talk) 02:51, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you! I have the reference but have not studied the section yet. (I also didn't know it was on Google Books, which I find easier to read than BHL.) --Eewilson (talk) 02:55, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Alnus glutinosa
I wondered why you thought Alnus glutinosa should have a good article reassessment? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 20:38, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I tagged the wrong article! I'll remove it and try to remember which one I meant to tag. Thank you for drawing this to my attention. --Eewilson (talk) 21:06, 25 December 2020 (UTC)