User talk:ElKevbo/Archive 30

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New article questions
Hi! I know you have a lot of expertise in the higher ed space on the project and I wanted to ask for any tips or insight you could provide as I'm building up this draft: User:Pbritti/sandbox/Campus of the College of William & Mary. I want to publish this article in a state that lends itself to a GAN next year with an eye to borrowing material to do the same for College of William & Mary, Wren Building, and History of the College of William & Mary. Thanks, ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:18, 28 November 2023 (UTC)


 * W&M is understandably a very history-focused school, but to be comprehensive enough in scope to pass GA, the article needs to cover its campus from all angles, not just the history one. Reading the current lead section, I see only historical information, with other very basic details (how many acres? what architectural style(s)?) absent. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 17:57, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank for the comment, . Before I publish to the mainspace, expect at least a paragraph on the architectural stylings in the lead. The other sections should be fairly heavily on the architectural descriptions, too. ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @Pbritti, if you haven't already had a chance to look them over, the three showcase articles for campuses are good (albeit rather dated) models, and (largely my work) is shorter than what you want but also worth looking at. &#123;{u&#124;  Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:27, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That's excellent advice, Sdkb. Glad I could help by providing a venue for this collegial discussion! :) ElKevbo (talk) 00:48, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you both! I'll let you both know if something comes up and I need additional insight. Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:40, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

St. Olaf College
Hello - Why is there no information listed about the jazz program at St. Olaf? They have a strong history and just hired their first tenure track director of jazz ensembles. Thanks. 50.220.209.82 (talk) 19:43, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You're welcome to add some well-sourced, neutral material to the article. Ask in the article's Talk page if you'd like some help or if you'd prefer to share a draft for feedback first. ElKevbo (talk) 00:12, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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Thailand’s education reformer was defamed
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sukavich_Rangsitpol&oldid=1187942899 2403:6200:89A8:7B4C:1C45:6F06:1AC7:9559 (talk) 15:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The above link was deleted and the present version defamed him. 2403:6200:89A8:7B4C:1C45:6F06:1AC7:9559 (talk) 15:52, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm not seeing the problem here. I recommend opening a discussion in the article's Talk page and providing more specific details. ElKevbo (talk) 00:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Union University
Hi ElKevbo,

I asked you a question about Union University in New York Union University (New York) and you provided a very helpful book link. It seems to have been recognized by the NY State Legislature. But it isn't accredited or recognized by the US Dept of Ed or have a 990. I'm just trying to figure out in what corporate form it still exists in 2023. Your book link:

https://archive.org/details/unionuniversity01raymgoog/page/439/mode/2up

Was very helpful in understanding the formation. Jjazz76 (talk) 23:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Glad I could help! I wonder if you might get some additional help by contacting the New York State Education Department's Office of Higher Education? ElKevbo (talk) 00:19, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * lol - those folks never answer the phones. Maybe I'll ask the constituent colleges. It seems to be a very, very lose affiliation. Jjazz76 (talk) 04:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

TESC
Why are you intentionally publishing the wrong name of The Evergreen State College? What is going on? Slugicide (talk) 17:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I put a link to the most relevant policy in the article's Talk page. You're welcome to try to convince other editors to change the article text or its title. That may go better, however, if you take a less accusatory tone and aggressive approach. ElKevbo (talk) 17:43, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Public Libraries and Lifelong Learning
I see you questioned why I am adding information on the role of public libraries in lifelong learning. I will add more information to respond to your question.Kmccook (talk) 23:46, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

A solstice greeting
 ❄️Happy holidays!❄️

Hi ElKevbo! I'd like to wish you a splendid solstice season as we wrap up the year. Here is an artwork, made individually for you, to celebrate. Your work on higher ed articles is invaluable. Take care, and thanks for all you do to make Wikipedia better!Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb }&#125;  talk

&#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 06:33, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

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Oregon Institute of Technology
Hi Professor ElKevbo! What was wrong with making the only picture of the Oregon Institute of Technology article slightly bigger?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:5101:6A00:1C39:43C9:641B:A14 (talk) 01:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The image is currently in the article as a thumbnail (using the "thumb" parameter). Wikipedia editors control the default size of thumbnail images through their preferences and we should override that default size only when necessary. If the image should be larger, you can consider not making it a thumbnail. ElKevbo (talk) 01:42, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


 * "thumb" also allows one to set the width i.e.
 * Oregon Institute of Technology 2014.JPG
 * Oregon Institute of Technology 2014.JPG
 * Irrespective, what was wrong with making the picture bigger??
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:5101:6a00:1c39:43c9:641b:a14 (talk • contribs) 20:50, January 21, 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:THUMBSIZE is part of our policy - it has widespread consensus among Wikipedia editors. ElKevbo (talk) 01:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
 * If it's any consolation, IP, there's currently a proposal to increase the default thumbnail size, so it may soon be larger anyways. The only situations in which I'd support overriding the default would be those where there's a particular reason (e.g. important details in the image that could not be seen at normal thumb size). &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 03:32, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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Roseman University of Health Sciences
Why are updates to correct grossly inaccurate statements edited back to misinformation?

The University has a third campus in Summerlin. Not just two campuses. The University has co-founders, not one founder.

The University no longer offers a Master of Business Administration, but other colleges and programs have been added.

The nursing programs are not accredited by the NLNAC, but instead the CCNE. This was corrected and cited properly.

Also, the titles of the individuals in reference to the University name portmanteau are incorrect. 64.47.178.202 (talk) 19:58, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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Kean University
You want to take another whack at reducing it, or should everything that the user changed just be reverted. Note, I'm OK with the list of greeks, if properly referenced.Naraht (talk) 00:58, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I removed the material that I originally removed a few days ago as discussed in the article's Talk page. I don't have an opinion on the listing of Greek letter organizations. ElKevbo (talk) 01:29, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Regarding The University of Alabama at Birmingham
Hi, I noticed that you reverted one of my edits to this page. I'd like to discuss this revert: are you sure it's necessary? I was pretty aggressive about cutting the content of this article, so I wouldn't mind seeing some of it readded, but are details such as the address of the Birmingham Extension Center and it's 1984 renaming -- neither of which are cited -- really necessary to note in the article?

I'm going to undo the revert if I don't hear back in 24 hours. Thanks. HyperAccelerated (talk) 02:38, 22 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Removing or tagging unsourced info is one thing. Simply removing a lot of material without explanation except to "condense" it is another. It's completely okay to have a few paragraphs about the university's history - that is not inappropriately long and in dire need of being "condensed."
 * You're welcome to open a discussion in the article's Talk page to see what other editors think. ElKevbo (talk) 02:58, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Would you have any objection to just removing the uncited content? Again, I'm not particularly dogmatic about retaining all the deletions I made, but I do think that uncited material, especially at the level of minute detail as an address used more than 60 years ago, should probably go. HyperAccelerated (talk) 03:04, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * You are well within your rights to remove unsourced material. Many editors prefer that such material be tagged as unsourced first but I think we should use our own judgement about whether that approach is appropriate in any specific case. ElKevbo (talk) 03:06, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Noted, thanks. I'll go ahead and remove that content now. In the meantime, feel free to revert any changes as you see fit. HyperAccelerated (talk) 03:08, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your great work!
When I first encountered the disruptive editing of Summerdays1 (not going to ping 'em, I think they have enough to worry about), I didn't see the bigger scope of what was going on. I just saw someone trying to slow-edit-war what seemed to me to be mostly poor changes into random pages. The past day or two, after becoming unintentionally "involved," I saw that they kept returning to persistently re-do the same non-improvements to seemingly every page they had touched. To be honest, it aggravated me a fair bit!

Waking up to a vague and unproductive message from them on my talk page was pretty discouraging (especially as they completely ignored the specific MOS-breaking changes I had called out) and it would have felt a lot worse if I didn't see that you swiftly countered many of their disruptive edits. In the process, you showed more poise and patience than I think I ever could have. Thank you for making me feel not-alone in this, and for the tireless work you do to improve and protect the encyclopedia!

The positive side of this weird little drama, for me, is that it brought my attention to the contributions of you and a few other editors who are so carefully maintaining the thankless work of cleaning up university pages and others that are likely more frequently beset by well-intentioned insertion of unencyclopedic content. I had never thought about how these sorts of pages are so much more likely to receive "drive-by edits" from excited but connected contributors, and I'm sure sometimes that becomes a headache.

Just wanted to let you know how appreciative I am that you "hold it down" on these fronts for the pillars of en.wiki- your work does not go unnoticed! As I take baby steps towards being a more hands-on long-term contributor, I am inspired by you and other editors like you, and I aim to do my part in protecting and enhancing this lovely experiment in open, consensus-driven knowledge-building.

Best wishes and happy editing! Chelsea aka Chiselinccc (talk) 17:04, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the kind words! ElKevbo (talk) 01:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Here
Is there a reason you seek conflict? I have opened a number of talk page discussions. Please explain here each of your edits. Summerdays1 (talk) 09:05, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


 * For six years, since January 2018, you have been removing a ton of information on university and college pages. Much of it is in error. Summerdays1 (talk) 10:52, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I realize you have a keen interest in how coverage is presented. You're starting with some basic inaccuracies. In your own words you say that mentioning the acceptance rate in the lede is a slippery slope and often or usually leads to promtionalism and boosterism. I question that as well as many of your practices. Summerdays1 (talk) 11:05, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I am not going to "explain here each of [my] edits." Unlike you, I use help edit summaries. If you have a specific question about one of my edits, I'd be happy to help. You're also welcome to open or continue discussions in article Talk pages. ElKevbo (talk) 12:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I have mentioned this exchange here. Grandpallama (talk) 15:12, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I may have caused this by giving Summerdays01 advice to politely reach out and discuss edits they disagreed with, in the interest of seeking consensus. I did not intend for them to ask you to explain every edit you've made for years! Please accept my unreserved apology for any stress or frustration that came from this. StartGrammarTime (talk) 07:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

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Disestablishment categories
Is it too soon to add "disestablished in 2024" categories to college/university articles even if we know they are closing in 2024? University of Antelope Valley is kind of obvious right now because the state and RSes state it is closed and the school website says it will be open either until or starting March 11 for online courses only. But what about others like Cabrini University and College of Saint Rose where the date has been announced (end of school year in 2024) yet the school is still operating at the moment? I assume in those cases to wait until actual closure but Antelope Valley is kind of in this limbo state right now. wizzito &#124;  say hello!  01:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)


 * We generally wait until something has happened before we add an article to a category. I think that this would be the governing policy. ElKevbo (talk) 12:17, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi ElKevbo,
 * Thanks for copying me on your call for other editors to reflect on the changes I have made. Hopefully you have been able to review the justifications for every one of the changes I made. As you have noted a lot of very negative material was added by someone on Dec. 25. I do not have a copy of the page before Dec. 25 ("Present University" section) and have no quantitative measures. But it seems reasonable to assume that much of the very negative content was inserted on that one day. Is it fair to ask why these major chances were not challenged at that time? Of course it was done on Christmas Day.
 * One of the changes I made today was to delete the statement that ESU was placed on the AAUP sanctions list. I checked the AAUP list and ESU is not there. I also provided the link to the AAUP list in my explanation. I would request that you consider that "lots of changes" by me do mean that they are not justified. For example, a discussion of the fees for people to play on the university's tennis courts and the poverty rate of Lyon County, Kansas do not seem relevant to a discussion of the "Present university." (FYI, the new president, who led the downsizing, played on the ESU tennis team when he was a student.)
 * And there is another negative inference about the new president coming from industry rather than a university background. While not the typical background for university presidents, I would note that there are some noteworthy universities that have appointed presidents coming from industry or government backgrounds. For example, in December 2023 Texas A&M appointed a retired military general. Similarly, David Boren, the former president of the University of Oklahoma was a former governor and U.S. senator.
 * The Pandemic had a tremendous negative effect, particularly on elementary and high school teachers. As is well-known, a great many of the students at ESU are education majors. Indeed, when I graduated, ESU was named Kansas State Teachers College. The turnover among schoolteachers has been tremendous due to many factors, one of which is low compensation. Understandably, fewer students have gravitated toward majors in education, which had a negative effect on the university's enrollment and budget. Thus, a causal factor for the downsizing may have been the declined in enrollments of education majors (200 fewer education majors) rather than bad intentions of the university's administrators.
 * So, it seems to me that the very negative material that was added to the description of the university was highly unfair and hurtful to people who care deeply about the university. One of the changes I made was to update the statement about ESU's endowment. It increased during the past few years by $20 million up to $100.7 million. Most likely many of these contributions probably came from schoolteachers, who are not very highly compensated.
 * Finally, if I might also ask you to consider the following point. Approximately 33 faculty and staff were downsized because of budgetary shortfalls. I am very sorry for their great disappointment. It is traumatic to anyone who goes through such an event.
 * Thank you for your consideration.
 * Fourmile45   Fourmile45 (talk) 02:21, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

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Brown, Columbia, and Penn: Treated differently than Other Ivies.
i agree with your position in reverting important summary information about alumni and believe your reversion is encouraged by Wikipedia SOM as the high level accomplishments by Ivy alum faculty and trustees are part of reason they have succeeded. To have 5 of them have their Ledes and 3 of them not seems wrong. I wrote on Nikkimaria that I might support her IF all 8 schools Ledes were similarly deleted and they pushed back saying in essence it's ok to discriminate and not be uniform. I welcome your insight. OneMoreByte (talk) 07:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Saint Paul College
Re edits 4/2024 - much of the data you reverted back is not accurate to our public institutional research data as well as our general quick facts.

We know longer offer watchmaking and that has no source data. Austincalhoun (talk) 12:16, 19 April 2024 (UTC)


 * You're welcome to post suggestions and requests in the article's Talk page! And most editors are fine with COI editors making edits that are indisputably uncontroversial e.g., updating outdated information, correcting typos. ElKevbo (talk) 12:36, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

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Talk page feedback
FYI: You posted on my talk page. Thank you! I responded. I was doing my best to be careful about following Wikipedia policy (but I'm far from an expert on such). If I made any errors, can you please let me know? If you were just posting so I'd be careful just in case, but I was within policy, can you please let me know as well?

I'm avoiding further edits (at least for now), but I think the edX page should have a heading similar to the Open edX one ("may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject, potentially preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral.") and perhaps a stronger one.

Pmitros (talk) 13:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't have any objections to the specific edits that you made - I just wanted to make sure you knew about our conflict of interest policies and practices.
 * Please feel free to post suggestions and requests in the Talk pages for articles about which you have a significant conflict of interest (and disclose your conflict of interest, too, so editors aren't caught off guard or unaware). ElKevbo (talk) 15:03, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

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Get your affairs in order
Your entire crime syndicate will be taken out. 74.49.143.204 (talk) 23:26, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Oberlin Group notability
Hi ElKevbo! I tried taking a spin through Oberlin Group of Libraries to improve it, and was surprised to find that I could not come up with any notability-qualifying sources. I'm guessing that some probably exist somewhere, given that it's referenced all the time among its members — would you be able to point me to any?  Sdkb  talk 17:00, 14 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't have any expertise in libraries or library systems. But I would not be at all surprised if this group were not notable by our standards. There are many consortia and collaborations in US higher education that are real, meaningful, and substantive - but not notable. I would imagine that many of them simply don't have enough independent coverage to write substantive encyclopedia articles that meet our standards because their focus is purely on meeting the internal needs of their members and not publicizing their work or creating large amounts of information and activity that typically draws a lot of press or scholarly coverage. ElKevbo (talk) 11:31, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If it turns out to not be notable, that would put us in an interesting spot, since most members of the Oberlin Group include that fact in their infobox. We also have the Oberlin Group navbox, which we'd probably still want to keep (are there any notability standards for navboxes?).  Sdkb  talk 22:35, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm very skeptical that a library group merits inclusion in the "affiliation" parameter of the infobox. The template documentation says that inclusions in that parameter should "provide essential definition of the institution's core mission and values" and it seems very unlikely that a library collaboration would meet that bar. The description for the "academic affiliation" is similar. ElKevbo (talk) 22:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed — you and I previously discussed that here, which later led to the discussion here that implemented the documentation you're citing. And I left out the Oberlin Group from the infobox when I did my FA. But until someone does a large-scale run through university articles to remove it, it'll be advice that roughly 1% of our articles actually follow.  Sdkb  talk 23:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've done some trimming of many infoboxes to remove specific organizations from infoboxes but I've been selective about the organizations I've removed. Identifying other organizations to trim - or add - is not very high on my "to do" list. ElKevbo (talk) 00:58, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think centralizing the discussion around which consortia to include or exclude in infoboxes would be better centralized than dispersed over thousands of articles. Category:College and university associations and consortia in the United States has a pretty manageable 75 entries, so it would be feasible to list them all out on perhaps a subpage of WP:UNIGUIDE and come to a project consensus on which meet the defining bar. That'd then constitute a basis for making mass-scale edits that wouldn't require fighting for a consensus at every single article.  Sdkb  talk 01:20, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

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Jeffree Star YouTube External Links
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How my edit is a link spam, kindly explain!
I have made an edit, can you please explain how is this a link spam @ElKevbo Deependra.d (talk) 07:30, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * , a link you added to Online degree is not by any stretch of the imagination a reliable source. ElKevbo (talk) 14:06, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Disestablishment categories again
Currently having some troubles on Delaware College of Art and Design. Trying to reaffirm that the status quo on higher ed closures is to not add disestablishment categories until verified closure but this news hasn't hit Inside Higher Ed or Higher Ed Dive yet so I'm alone here. wizzito &#124;  say hello!  04:20, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll open a discussion at WT:UNI. ElKevbo (talk) 15:02, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Tagging other users
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Reverted Edits to Fayetteville State University
Please offer an explanation as to why you decided to undo the appropriate corrections to capitalization of the terms "Black," "Historically Black University," and etc. 173.93.28.147 (talk) 21:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't have much objection to capitalizing "Black." But "Historically Black University" is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized. ElKevbo (talk) 21:24, 28 June 2024 (UTC)