User talk:ElessarTelcontar2931

Welcome!
Hello, ElessarTelcontar2931, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions, especially your edits to Middle-earth weapons and armour. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:


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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:42, 9 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi (a non-automated greeting this time), I guess I should call you 'Strider' for short... You have joined the project at quite a stormy moment with many articles being deleted or merged. That means that people are on the lookout for any weaknesses in anything that is written in Middle-earth articles. I have been rewriting a whole lot of articles, see Harad for example of how a ME article should probably look (though I say it myself). In Wikipedia terms, that means


 * 1) that the material isn't sourced to anything, which means it can be deleted immediately by anybody, as it fails the verifiability policy;


 * 2) that the material is sourced only or mainly to Tolkien himself, which means there is no proof anybody considers it Notable; we call such sources WP:PRIMARY - essential for showing where JRRT wrote the stuff, but no help in saving the article from the Orcs;


 * 3) that the sources used are not in recognised academic journals or textbooks, so not considered Reliable Sources.


 * I think you'll see at once that the material you added falls foul of (2) and (3). I haven't immediately deleted it but it certainly needs urgent attention! All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:50, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Greetings Chiswick Chap as i am new to actually using this content, i am afraid i know no other way to respond, so i hope this is satisfactory, I am not quite sure what you are referencing for the (2) violation, and am intrigued to know how i might improve my work, but in reference to (3) the only thing i know of that i linked was "Arthur and Aragorn -Arthurian influences in the Lord of the Rings" which was in fact published in Mallorn 43 the forty third issue of the Tolkien Societies annual journal in 2005, and was already the and was referenced in the book Tolkien's Intellectual Landscape by E.L Risden a professor of English, heroes and sagas at St. Norbert college in Wisconsin, but i thought it best to give a link to the direct article rather and Mallorn 43 is difficult to find so i referenced an online copy of the same academic article which is at least as credible as J.R.R._Tolkien_Encyclopedia:_Scholarship_and_Critical_Assessment and far more credible than anything by David Day of which many Middle-Earth pages on Wikipedia [are based.]


 * Sorry, I swapped the order of (1) and (2) while I was writing. You haven't cited JRRT anywhere so (2) is advice for the future. The (1) thing was that a large part of your addition is an apparently uncited paragraph - though perhaps you meant the one citation to apply to all the parts? If so, the solution is to name the ref --- and then to use the ref again later noticing the "/" the second and any subsequent times.

Your actual ref, which looks a great deal more notable when cited in full, is

Hope this helps, Chiswick Chap (talk) 21:04, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Marking primary refs
As I noted above, primary (Tolkien) refs do not contribute to notability, so we use them only to show where something came from: we need other authors (scholars, critics) to show that that a topic is worth keeping. I've therefore marked Tolkien refs as primary in this and many other articles to help us see where work is needed, and to demonstrate to those who wish to delete the articles that they are properly sourced and thus strongly defended. Accordingly, each primary Tolkien ref is marked "group=T", like this: - it's another bit of apparatus but it is serving a vital function.

I hope it goes without saying that any section of the article that is cited only to Tolkien is in need of at least one good, reliable, non-Tolkien source.

All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:32, 10 February 2020 (UTC)