User talk:Elfpunk

Welcome!

Hello, Elfpunk, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Herostratus (talk) 07:22, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
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Re Jess C Scott
Hello Elfpunk. Thank you for contributing this article. It's a well-put-together article, and I can see that you put a lot of work and care into it, and worked hard on formatting and including references and all.

Sadly, we probably won't be able to keep this article, as Ms Scott appears to be published only online, and thus is not notable enough per our WP:GNG standards to rate an article. If and when she gets published by a notable publisher and/or receives notices in notable publications, that could change. But for now, probably not.

I hope you won't be discouraged if and when this article gets nominated for removal. It happened to me when I was just starting out, and it can be a frustrating experience. I hope you won't be put off by this, and I think you could be a good editor here, maybe even a star, seeing the care and effort you put into this article. Message me if you have any questions or desire advice. Herostratus (talk) 07:22, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello Herostratus,

Thank you for taking the time to comment on the article--it did take quite some time to put together.

I understand the concerns you have, but would like to clarify a few points and see if it would be possible to keep the article. Ms. Scott publishes her work in paperback also (those that are novel-length), just that she does so independently (I think she has had some work printed in print magazines issues / she has stated some on her website at http://jesscscott.wordpress.com/writing/). Some of the online journals are literary journals, which exercise some form of editorial control.

I created the page because I noticed a similar author, Ms. Selena Kitt, had her own page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selena_Kitt -- also an independent author, who has had her books published only online (and in paperbacks, through her own publishing company).

I noticed the "discussion" on Selena Kitt's page, that "her creation of a successful new publishing house (Excessica Publishing in a heretofore underserved genre is Significant, and qualifies to her to be Notable as a living author. Other external sources can and will be added as time goes on, and every article has to start somewhere." I thought the same might apply to Ms. Scott, as she too writes erotica (and innovative, creative, original work that mainstream publishing houses are reluctant to pick up nowadays, due to their logistics, etc). As a young author (24 years old), I believe Ms. Scott too needs to "start somewhere" -- she has already accomplished quite a fair bit as an independent author. I would be happy to hear your thoughts, and/or see if there can be some kind of compromise! Elfpunk (talk) 07:40, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

OK. Well, first of all, it is certainly possible that no one looking at the article will nominate it for a deletion discussion. I am just wanting you to be prepared for that eventuality.

If it was me, I would shorten the article somewhat, removing extraneous personal information such as her Myers-Briggs index and anything that "damns with faint praise", as it were, such as having an associates degree or having worked as an intern, that sort of thing. This is sort of like the "Hobbies and Interests" section one sees on the resumes of young people and causes those parts of the brain that are alert for possible padding to light up.

If there is a deletion discussion about the article, pointing to Selena Kitt is certainly allowable but might not garner much sympathy, as this will likely be countered with a reference to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and "Well, Kitt probably shouldn't have an article either".

The publications in Word Riot, ITCH Magazine, and The Battered Suitcase and so forth should be stressed.

However, note WP:GNG. Many commentors in a deletion discussion will basically say "Does not meet WP:GNG, delete", end of story. WP:BIO, WP:NOTABILITY, and WP:AUTHOR may also be cited. They will have a point. If the New York Times, or at least the Bay Shore Gazette or whatever, has not seen fit to write about this person, should we? If this person could score an interview or writeup in any kind of reasonably notable and reliable print publication, her case would be very much stronger. Note I say print, as web publications are so easy to put up that they don't carry the same weight, although there are exceptions such as Slate etc.

Your response could be that WP:GNG and the other criteria I mentioned basically describe people who must be allowed articles, but that failing to meet these criteria doesn't mean the person must not have an article if there are other good reasons. However, don't expect too many people to be convinced by that. The Wikipedia is driven by policy to a considerable extent.

Other than that, the general case that you made to me above could form the basis for a reasonable defense in a deletion discussion. Which, as I said, may never occur. (By that way, don't take my kindness to you personally as an indication that I would not necessarily "vote" to delete the article if an when it comes to that; nothing personal, just business.) Good luck, cheers, and looking forward to many future contributions from you, Herostratus (talk) 13:53, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

-- Hello Herostratus,

Thank you for taking the time to explain the "Notability" guidelines--it is much appreciated. I removed the MBTI mention as per your recommendation.

Currently the strongest notability points are media mentions by Publishers Weekly, and Publetariat.com (which features "the most valuable content from the web for indie authors and small imprints"). I was just wondering (and have posted in the "Articles for deletion" page too) about notability with regards to the burgeoning independent writing/publishing scene, as the traditional/mainstream publishing versus independent publishing worlds are quite divided. I believe that Ms. Scott's contributions to the field of independent writing/publishing are notable, which is why I created the article in the first place. It is widely known (in the publishing scene, at least) that independent publishing offers many opportunities, that traditional publishing does not. Should a person be not-notable, because they are not mainstream enough to be extensively covered by mainstream media outlets (for the time being)?

I will keep a lookout if/when Ms. Scott manages to score a feature in some kind of established, notable and reliable publication; perhaps that would enable the page to stay on :) Elfpunk (talk) 17:43, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

October 2010
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your addition of one or more external links to the page Jess C Scott has been reverted. Your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove links which are discouraged per our external links guideline from Wikipedia. The external link you added or changed is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. I removed the following link(s): http://www.myspace.com/conceitmagazine. If you were trying to insert an external link that does comply with our policies and guidelines, then please accept my creator's apologies and feel free to undo the bot's revert. However, if the link does not comply with our policies and guidelines, but your edit included other, constructive, changes to the article, feel free to make those changes again without re-adding the link. Please read Wikipedia's external links guideline for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! --XLinkBot (talk) 17:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Jess C Scott


The article Jess C Scott has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * Minor self-published author. No significant coverage from independent third-party reliable sources.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. TheRealFennShysa (talk) 15:08, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Nomination of Jess C Scott for deletion
A discussion has begun about whether the article Jess C Scott, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Jess C Scott until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion.

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Article
I do wish you luck, and rather hope you can find the necessary refs in time. (If later, come back when you can.) I don't like having to say 'delete', but until the question of self-publishing and online publishing gets revised in the policies, I've no option. Do look at WP:RS and see what's needed. Avoid twitter like the plague, and steer clear of blogs and forums. YouTube's no good, nor are aboutus and LinkedIn (but those two are free places to put a bit of profiling and/or plugging...). Peridon (talk) 19:35, 19 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Peridon, thanks for the well wishes, and replying on the article/deletion page (much appreciated). Is there a way to suggest a revision in the Wiki policies, regarding self-publishing and online publishing? I would make a suggestion, if I knew who to contact / where to post it. About necessary refs and the "self-publishing of books [being] governed solely by the funds": I am aware that book publicists are the ones with the media contacts. If the author decides to pay for some media coverage, and gets the coverage this way some time in the future...would those count as credible refs? Elfpunk (talk) 20:09, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No. I don't think paid coverage would count - it has to be independent. There are areas for discussion of policies and so on, but I only find them by accident. Ask someone like NawlinWiki or another well established admin. Peridon (talk) 21:12, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, but if the author/person makes no mention about how the publicity was attained, nobody knows... :P I think that's how networking largely goes anyway. One of the Wiki editors suggested posting on the WP:BIO / WP:AUTHOR pages for discussion of policies. I'll gather a list of points regarding self-published authors/self-published sources, before introducing it on the appropriate pages (and I'll look out for the well established admins, if/when necessary). Elfpunk (talk) 15:03, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Award!
Why, thank you (and what a nice-looking graphic)! Elfpunk (talk) 14:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Meredithmaran.jpg


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Kitten
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Herostratus (talk) 22:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I see that that you've slowed down a bit, just hoping everything is OK. Herostratus (talk) 22:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of David Hoenigman


The article David Hoenigman has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * He's written a lot. He's interviewed a lot of people. There seem to be many passing mentions. But there's no in-depth coverage of him as a person as required by the WP:GNG, nor is there evidence of winning awards.

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Tania De Rozario
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 * Thank you--I have notified the author and she will update her website with the permission/notice, according to the guidelines on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Donating_copyrighted_materials#Granting_us_permission_to_copy_material_already_online Elfpunk (talk) 00:04, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

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Talkback
WingtipvorteX  PTT   ∅  18:03, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Spalding Labs


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for another example: '' [the founder] Patricia was highly concerned about the potential side effects of fly sprays and pesticides. Due to her own sensitivities to the chemicals in fly repellents, Mrs. Spalding was committed to finding a completely safe and harmless means of effective fly control for her barn.''

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Nomination of Jess C Scott for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Jess C Scott is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Removing AfD template
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 * Hi Scotty: Thanks for the notice--I thought I could object to and remove the template after reading the guidelines here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion#Objecting Elfpunk (talk) 16:34, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Elfpunk, I noticed your comment below mine on Scotty's talk page and I thought I'd respond here. It looks like you removed an AfD (or Article for Deletion) template, which is different from the PROD (or proposed deletion) template. The policy you cited is for PRODs. No real harm done in your removal... you should just try not to do it again. If you'd like more information on the AfD process, see here. -   t  u coxn \ talk 22:48, 1 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Tucoxin, thanks for the clarification! I got confused between AfD and PROD. I have listed the reason why the page should stay on, re: reliable sources - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Jess_C_Scott_(2nd_nomination) Elfpunk (talk) 23:06, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ted Grossbart


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August 2013
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Jess C Scott
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Speedy deletion nomination of Jess C Scott


A tag has been placed on Jess C Scott, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. &#124; Uncle Milty  &#124;  talk  &#124;  15:36, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * (In case the article and its talk page are deleted before you have a chance to visit, I'll paste here what I said regarding your contesting the deletion:) Recreating an article in its previous form is not the way to handle this. If you really think there was a problem with the deletion discussion or the way it was closed you should take your concerns to Deletion review. Follow the suggestions there. -- &#124;  Uncle Milty  &#124;  talk  &#124;  19:55, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

File:Jess C Scott, author, 2011.jpg listed for deletion
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Nomination of Ted Grossbart for deletion
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