User talk:Elinruby/Archives/2022/April

Russian propaganda analyst
I heard about Julia Davis on some news interview; she's an expert analyst of Russian propaganda, who does analyses and interviews. Her site is here, and has links to WaPo, Daily Beast, and other sites where you might find reports that could be useful for some of the articles you're working on.

Btw, have you seen the Russian propaganda about the Bucha massacre? The dead bodies in the street were either killed by Ukrainians to make Russians look bad, or they're crisis actors, or the bodies don't exist at all and are just fake videos. Mathglot (talk) 09:32, 5 April 2022 (UTC)


 * yep. I did see that. I am speechless. Speaking of Ukraine, the portion about Zelenskyy’s speeches needs to be expanded. I am currently on a mental health day from Azov, since they are back to calling me an apologist for thinking that the sources on “neo-nazi” should not about hate groups in the United States, which, whatever else it is, Azov is not. It gets a two-sentence mention; members of an American hate group apparently met them one day, according to the court case against them, which is according to an FBI agent with two years under his belt. Elinruby (talk) 16:10, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this makes me very much think of that IP/"new"-user on the talk page. Their posts, which are already deliberately provocative (with an obvious instance of a false equivalence), and their line of reasoning, which includes such pearls as "Chinese media, which is only lukewarm to Russia, should perhaps be considered here", along with the subsequent personal attacks and accusations, is indistinguishable from actual trolling, i.e. to quote from the in this instance reliable Urban Dictionary, "The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that either a) truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous,". The best course of action would be to just ignore them entirely, me thinks. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:52, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

He lost me at “obscure local event”. The people I am talking about above aren’t ignorable unfortunately. FWIW India has a lot of trade with Russia, and some of the headlines in “The Hindu” make me shake my head. China... less sure about the trade ties but they are apparently supporting Russian foreign policy but not offering military assistance. Elinruby (talk) 19:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * They're really good at the whole false equivalence thing. Somehow dismissing Western media because "duh, they're all biased" (what they're doing) is acceptable, but treating "non-Western" media as "monoliths" (which is not even what we're doing) is not. Gosh, at least nonsense like that is obvious and leaves one without any doubts... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 19:14, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You might want to look up WP:DFTT and leave that one alone... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 19:16, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Are you familiar with discretionary sanctions? That page falls under EE (Eastern Europe). He’s already on the personal attack part of the troll playbook. (Did you see that I am ignoring the rape of Russian soldiers?) For something this blatant they may just block him as an obvious SPA. I mean how old is the account? And he knows what a hat is? Elinruby (talk) 22:27, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Five hours, lol Elinruby (talk) 22:38, 6 April 2022 (UTC)


 * ok well. He just left me an alert back. That’s a problem, since I already have one, so I’ll leave it up in case you need it. But I just flagged him as a single-purpose account also, so I am guessing you won’t? I think administrators have noticed him. Hope that helps. I gotta go do non-wiki stuff Elinruby (talk) 22:50, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Now reported at ANI, if you want to add your two cents. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 22:51, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I really gotta go. I owe them diffs about something else when I get done with my to-do. But tell them he’s flagged as an SPA and just got an alert. That should make it easy for somebody to step in esp if he keeps this up. No way this guy is a legit new user. I’ve been here 16 years and had to look up how to do that. I gotta go. Elinruby (talk) 22:58, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh and tell them he knows what a hat is. I’ve verified his edit history Elinruby (talk) 22:59, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Repeat discretionary sanctions alerts
Per WP:AC/DS, "Editors issuing alerts are expected to ensure that no editor receives more than one alert per area of conflict per year. Any editor who issues alerts disruptively may be sanctioned." In Special:Diff/1081348317, you posted a discretionary sanctions alert for the "Eastern Europe or the Balkans" topic area on User talk:JoseLuisMoralesMarcos. Earlier today, another editor had issued an alert for same topic area at Special:Diff/1081329059. Although the original alert had been removed, alerts that have been deleted by the editor who received them or have been automatically archived are still considered in effect. Please take care not to send repeat alerts to the same editor within one year of the most recent alert for the same topic area. Also, please note that the alert template should be substituted. Thank you. —  Newslinger  talk   23:18, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Alright. I did look at his edit history but I was thinking SPA thoughts at the time and didn’t notice that. What did I get wrong in the syntax, please? I don’t really understand “substituted”. Sounds recursive. I have a feeling that if I keep watching that page I will need to know. Also, do you know the syntax for D/S aware? I don’t usually swim in these waters but I will make myself a formal checklist for future use. Sorry about any problems I may have caused the sysadmins. Thanks Elinruby (talk) 00:30, 7 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Substitution means adding subst: before the template name, which causes your edit to be saved with a copy of the template that does not update when the template is later edited, instead of a live embed (transclusion) of the template that does update when the template is later edited. Most templates that are designed be used in talk page comments should be substituted. The template documentation explains how the template is meant to be used, and whether substitution is necessary.
 * Looking at Special:Diff/1081348317 more closely, you actually did substitute the discretionary sanctions template correctly. The "This template must be substituted" error message was from using the spa template without substituting it, i.e. . Note that the documentation of Template:Single-purpose account states, "This template should always be substituted (i.e., use {{subst:Single-purpose account}})."
 * More importantly, the spa template is not meant to be used as a user talk page warning. Instead, this template is generally only used in discussions that are to be formally closed, such as requests for comment and deletion discussions. The tag is useful for helping the discussion closer evaluate consensus when there is improper canvassing, particularly off-wiki canvassing. For an example of the spa template being properly used, see Articles for deletion/Tacha.
 * To use Ds/aware, go to the list of topic codes at Template:Ds/alert/doc and identify the codes for the topic areas that you want to opt out of alerts for. Then, apply the template with the codes on the top of your user talk page (this page), separated by characters if you are including more than one topic area. For example, if you want to opt out of alerts for the "post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people" (ap) and the "Eastern Europe or the Balkans" (e-e) topic areas, the corresponding template code is . This template should not be substituted. For the full documentation, please see Template:Ds/aware.
 * I hope this helps! —  Newslinger  talk   01:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

It does, thanks. Elinruby (talk) 01:27, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

New topic in French and European political history
I may have found a gap which could be filled with a new article on how conservatism in France and then Europe and the Western world arose out of a reaction to the French Revolution. I haven't confirmed yet that there isn't an article about this, because maybe it exists but has some title I don't expect, but I haven't found one so far. I was inspired by the red link at the end of the first paragraph of Influence of the French Revolution.

Looking just a little bit in Google books, there are certainly discussions about the birth of modern conservatism as a reaction to the French Revolution; see for example, Zafirovski (2007), page 246, or Giddens (1982) p. 47. I delight in finding these "gaps" in coverage and turning them into articles; the last two were Liberation of France, and War guilt question, and if we're lucky, maybe this is another one.

First thing we'd have to do before anything else, is make sure that we're not duplicating effort, in case there's already an article about it under some other name. The Conservatism article mentions "French Revolution" four times, most relevantly in connection with Edmund Burke, but it's pretty thin about it. Would have to look around some more to make sure. Secondly, we'd have to check if there's enough material out there for a whole article, or maybe just a new section at Conservatism, or at French Revolution. Would enjoy collaborating with you on it, if you feel like it would interest you. Mathglot (talk) 07:00, 26 February 2022 (UTC)


 * I am currently on strike except for prior commitments. But having been to school in France (where I got a whole bunch of history of the French Revolution) I may be able to answer this easily so I agree to have a look and answer you about this. I also not finished with the stuff I have said I would do at Liberation of France. I came in today to have a look at Russian-Ukrainian information war Elinruby (talk) 01:30, 1 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Russian disinformation and the Ukraine invasion is a rabbit hole, and Putin just signed a law that makes it worse. But I stuck my head out long enough to re-read your message. No question there was a conservative backlash. The French Revolution was very bloody and its aftermath had its own excesses. This led in a direct line to the Bourbon restoration, this is true. This is off the top of my head from past history lessons but I am very sure of it. It is also true that the French Revolution greatly alarmed the European monarchies. I am interested in an abstract way, as I am in what the problem is with the copyright tool, but the war in Ukraine seems more urgent. I am burning out fast though and probably will need a change of topic soon. Come help me if you are so moved. For some reason nobody seems to consider the topic important; I am all alone over there amid breaking news. Elinruby (talk) 02:21, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Had a look at Russian information war against Ukraine, and I can see you've been busy there. Can't do too much there right now, but I added what looks like a possibly good reference you can try, in the #Further reading section.
 * Interesting that you're working on that topic; as it happens, I'm working on a related one, which is a Russian theory of unconventional warfare called New generation warfare. Russian information war is definitely part of it, and it could be the two articles might be interconnected enough to have wikilinks back and forth, possibly in the #Reasons for conflict section of your article. At a minimum, I'll probably add your article to the "See also" section. Your article is probably also very likely related to the Gerasimov doctrine, and I notice there's no mention of it yet, but the Russian disinformation campaign is definitely following the strategy laid out in that doctrine, as well as in new generation warfare. Mathglot (talk) 03:42, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

interesting. I will look at those. I had to move the article, which somebody, perhaps in the Ukranian version, seems to have tried to both-sides; but even allowing for the fact that the original article was apparently written by Ukrainian independence activists, it seems fairly well sourced, considering, although the sources were universally not-English when I got there, and it was machine translated. But I just found possibly the Rosetta Stone: Russian information war tends to be conflated with cyber warfare, but that’s a NATO concept that is actually quite different. (!) according to Russian military training materials. Which means the entire structure of the article is wrong and I just re-wrote the lede. Keep in touch; I appreciate your insights. Elinruby (talk) 05:51, 7 March 2022 (UTC)


 * very interesting. Based on a quick scan, unquestionably related. Reflexive control has a whole section in that text I cite for the lede. And doesn’t seem to have an en.wikipedia article yet btw. Maybe there should be a section for the history of the term. One of the concepts I am simmering is an analogy one of the texts makes is that Marxist dialectic sees everything as a struggle and that is why information war takes place even in times of peace. And why they always think they are under attack Elinruby (talk) 06:09, 7 March 2022 (UTC)


 * scratch that; it does have an article. Must have been another term of art in that text. The uk.wikepedia has a glossary; maybe I should look at that Elinruby (talk) 06:20, 7 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I can’t get into the link for the glossary; Cloudflare says my iOS is too old, and it’s not wrong, by many definitions of “old”. It’s a glossary of Ukainian terminology not Russian, but they would still have had a lot of insight into what they are defending against. Oh well. Note to self for when I am around another device, or to anyone else interested Elinruby (talk) 03:38, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you provide the link for the glossary, please? Maybe I can access it. Mathglot (talk) 19:20, 28 March 2022 (UTC)


 * just realized that it is probably also pertinent how many of the sources for the article use Cloudflare, but I guess that’s OR unless I find a source for it. Let me know what this looks like:

== Джерела ==
 * Глосарій назв, термінів та словосполучень, які рекомендовано використовувати у зв’язку з тимчасовою окупацією Російською Федерацією Автономної Республіки Крим, м. Севастополь і окремих районів Донецької та Луганської областей // Сайт РНБО України, 20.10.2021


 * Thanks. Getting back to France, for some reason when we were talking about this before it did not occur to me that one big effect of the Revolution was Napoleon! He became a general under the Consulate, so ironically the French Revolution helped to create the French Empire Elinruby (talk) 03:55, 7 April 2022 (UTC)


 * So... I looked at this a little more and I think War of the Fourth Coalition may be of interest. The sentence that links to it in the Napoleon article is talking about how Prussia was alarmed by the growing power of France. But what does this have to do with the French Revolution, you may ask. Well. Napoleon became a general in the French Revolution and authored a coup as one of the successive government instabilities that followed it. hth Elinruby (talk) 22:48, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

A Glass of Kvass for you!
My advice would be to give "Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents" and all that jazz a wide berth. Don't engage with it, don't even entertain it. Clearly there are many Wiki editors who simply use it as an extension of their partisan, parochial edit-wars. When you look at the edit counts of some of the names that keep popping up there, you realize that for many of them, but for 1 or 2 articles, their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th most common page to edit - is there. Incredible. That should tell you a lot. You'll notice too, if you read through the archives like a saddo such as myself, these regular fixtures also have a stunning success rate of getting people blocked/banned. I mean, some of them are batting like .800! I'd feel embarrassed trying to get someone blocked for 3RR or for some kind of impolitesse or breach of etiquette, but for them it's a sport. And their years of practice makes mere debutantes or novices such as ourselves almost guaranteed to lose. So don't play the game I say, don't play into their hands. EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 07:36, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

I really hate bullies. And didn't that strategy get you blocked for trying to provide references? You aren't the first one to tell me that, mind you, and you may be right. I did have a brainstorm about Azov though. Most of the pages that link to it are about anti-hate groups, which may explain the utter certainty on the subject at that page. Elinruby (talk) 07:46, 9 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Indeed. I'd be more than happy to receive an email from you. Not anything to do with collaborative editing or anything, but just to share our thoughts on the problems within the project. EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 16:30, 9 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I am thinking of making some proposal or proposal that might help. Wikipedia does seem to rely on the idea of reasonable people discussing, which is fine if the people involved are reasonable. It needs work, although this is not the only article on which I have thunk these thoughts. There are places where the opinion of uninvolved editors is valuable and places where it isn't. Elinruby (talk) 19:06, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 10
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Escadron de Chasse 1/4 Gascogne, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Châteaufort.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:05, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Azov RfC - it all went pear-shaped
We could really use your help! EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 15:52, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Help submit a new article on Collaboration with Russia During Russo-Ukranian War
Hello, I am a new editor

Can I ask for your help editing and submitting this draft? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Collaboration_with_Russia_During_Russo-Ukranian_War

I believe timely publication can help nudge countries and companies away from collaborationism behaviour, hence the sense of urgency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by I0ving (talk • contribs) 14:45, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for reaching out to say "hello" to me on that well-known social media site. Since I openly disclose my real world identity here on Wikipedia, there are zero outing concerns. It is always nice to hear from you, and I wish you well in these difficult days. Cullen328 (talk) 06:34, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I just thought I should keep the conversations separate, in case. I on the other hand try to be careful about making not making it easy to mess with me RL, especially right now when somebody just had a real good go in Wikipedia, so please do be aware of that. But cheers. I have heard that that’s a really nice town, and rich you well. Elinruby (talk) 06:39, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Consensus for Deleting that article
GizzyCat is asking people for consensus to delete that article here. My vote is to "keep." GizzyCat is changing their original objection, which was alleging it glorified UPA, to a new objection alleging NPOV, which I disagree with that new allegation too. BetsyRMadison (talk) 04:20, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't know if it is yet, that's the thing. I try to know what I don't know and I am still reading. If it isn't neutral it will be when I am done with it, is what I think. Don't argue. The way they are doing it now they need to get consensus so there is time to fix the article. These people travel in packs. Just work on the article; you've said your piece. But that rationale is pretty good, I have to say ;). It's anti-Soviet, it glorifies UPA (???? I am currently reading about somebody snitching on a leader in hiding ??!) It duplicates another article, now it is NPOV. LOL. I came in here to point out this source, which looks pretty solid:. Don't worry. Work on the article. I have a few more hours in me for this tonight. Elinruby (talk) 04:36, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Elinruby (talk) 04:37, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Something confusing just happened on that 'delete' page. GCB suggested changing the title to the article and elaborated by saying that between 1944-1956 the "Soviet Union was exceptionally well and dandy" here  When I asked him/her to answer why they think that, they avoided time and again. Without answering, GBC put it under an "off topic" bar. The confusing part is, GCB brought it up as a suggested new title for that article, but then refused to answer, buried it, & said it's off-topic. Very confusing.


 * That is part of what I was warning you about. If I explained it they could say I was attacking them however, but this is a pattern. Here is the thing: theoretically it is something you could file a complaint over that, but if you do it will suck up all of your free time for the next week or so. Or, you could work on the article. My suggestion is that you stop engaging with these people whose minds are made up, and if it troubles you enough, discuss it with an admin that you trust. Or, you could advertise the AfD if you like. By the way, this is not my area of expertise, but I am pretty sure I just read that the Ukraine joined the Soviet Union at gunpoint, so calling the Russians/Soviets occupiers doesn't seem that non-neutral to me atmElinruby (talk) 07:29, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Wow, it would be nice if I was pinged to the conversation since you are talking about me. So let me address your inquiry BetsyRMadison about why I spoke (joking of course) that the Soviet Union was "well and dandy" from 1944 to 1956. So...they just pushed the Germans west after the Stalingrad and with the collapse of Nazi Germany, became a "dandy" super-power. They soon developed a nuclear weapon and shortly after, in 1961, dispatched Gagarin into space, so he could look and smile from far above at the huge territory the Soviet Union acquired. Does this answer your question? - GizzyCatBella  🍁  07:47, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * My priority is to help you with that article. Period. BetsyRMadison (talk) 08:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't ping you, because I didn't invite you to this conversation. It's that simple. But since you're following me on wiki, your exact quote is "1944-1956 the Soviet Union existed in those years and was exceptionally well and dandy." This isn't the first time I've seen you try wiggle out of something you did say. But that's beside the point. It's apparent you don't know what the "Soviet Union" was. The Soviet Union was not one country (as you seem to think) it was a forced conglomerate of 15 countries (Republics): USSR = Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (notice the 's' at the end, plural). The Russian Republic brutally ruled all of the other Republics even though they all wanted their independence & didn't want to be in the "SSRepublics" (plural). The Russian Republic brutally controlled them all under a 1-party rule out of Moscow. Example: In 1930s Russian Republic waged genocide in Ukraine and killed almost 4 million Ukrainians. Ukrainian nationalists didn't set out to kill Jews pre-1941, but I'll tell you who did: Russian Republic leader Joseph Stalin. From 1933-1941 Stalin & Hitler were allies. In 1939 Stalin & Hitler invaded Poland to kill Jews. At that time, Ukraine nationalists weren't killing Jews, Russia's Joseph Stalin was killing Jews along side Hitler (Stalin, the guy you say led an "exceptionally well and dandy" country.) In 1941 Hitler invaded Stalin's Ukraine and told Ukraine nationalists that if they fought with the Germans, they'd give Ukraine independence they'd been fighting Russia for since 1917. * You said you want to delete the article because you feel the article "glorifies" UPA, but you can't (or won't) cite any passages to support your allegations. * Then you switched to complaining about sources. The author, Moxy, & I gave you sources; you won't read the sources.  I even translated a source for you and you still won't read it. * Then you suggested to change the title to "Ukrainian resistance to the Soviet Union" and I explained since Ukraine resistance has been fighting Russian Republic for their independence since 1917, and the article only covers 1944-1956, your title isn't fitting. * That's when you said, "1944-1956 the Soviet Union existed in those years and was exceptionally well and dandy." And now you're here pretending you didn't say what you did say. * Here's the real kicker to your praise of Russia's Stalin - Stalin, the guy who for decades waged genocide on Ukrainians, Jews, etc - The author of the article is from Ukraine. And right now, while you sit here and praise Russia, inside the author's country, Russia is waging a genocidal invasion in Ukraine, kidnapping & raping Ukrainians, and destroying Ukrainian cities. While the author is dealing with all that, you accuse the author of "glorifying" UPA and you can't even cite a single passage to support your claim. Now that is sad. BetsyRMadison (talk) 08:41, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

/me checks to make sure this is still my talk page. Gizzy, please don’t post stupid stuff here. Go right a great wrong somewhere else. Surely there are articles that need to be tag bombed. I am not pinging you because I am pretty sure I don’t need to; thank you for proving my point. I am not going to ask you to stay off my page at this time, but you are making stupid jokes about a serious matter, and it’s offensive, especially when you are doing it waving the flag of a country that attempts to embody inclusion and tolerance, so you make it really hard to take you seriously or even AGF Elinruby (talk) 19:12, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

"women and children"
Just want you to know I'm on the cusp of finding a source regarding "massacre of women and children" you were asking help in find. I'll keep you posted.BetsyRMadison (talk) 19:27, 28 April 2022 (UTC)


 * UPDATE The source is Polish historian Grzegorz Motyka. Now I just have to find which of his books he talks about it. BetsyRMadison (talk) 19:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Right. This does appear to be genuinely missing, as I am pretty sure I have given the whole thing at least a first pass edit. My current guess is that it has something to do with the idea expressed in one place that they felt that Ukrainians were entitled to land that was occupied by the Polish people that the Soviets had settled there. This does sound like a recipe for bloodshed. However of course this does require some dehumanization of the "other", especially if the goal was ethnic cleansing. There was a place where I |said this looks like a good source; it went into this a bit. MMM on my talk page I think. I just woke up and have some overdue RL stuff to take care of. Thanks for your help. Elinruby (talk) 20:08, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with you on all accounts. I found a 2nd source, Timothy Snyder.  I've got to get off of here, probably for several hours. But when I get back, I'll have more time to dive into Snyder's work to give an RS for that passage. BetsyRMadison (talk) 20:31, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * thank you. Elinruby (talk) 20:36, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey Snyder is the one I was talking about (though maybe not the same article tho) --anyway, here, if this helps. I am doing a second, better read on this. I really need to do some stuff however. Elinruby (talk) 21:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Mr Reading Turtle. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Ukrainian anti-Soviet armed resistance seemed less than neutral and has been removed. If you think this was a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 (talk) 21:58, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * To whom it may concern: this got resolved on 's talk page. I encourage him to express any other concerns he might have, as this turned out to be quite a valid question. Elinruby (talk) 23:10, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Question
Two questions: 1) What kind of AfD or request can I start to get a consensus and/or question whether the author of that article has the same right to WP:AFDDISCUSS as everyone else? From March 28 through today, no one ever mentioned "extended confirmed restriction" being placed on the author. 2) You wrote, "that editor has 16,000+ global edits." If the editor has 16,000+ edits, then "extended confirmed restriction" would not apply to the author in any way. How can I find that information? I feel there's some WP:AFDDISCUSS and WP:PLAYPOLICY (and maybe more) issues going on. Best regards to you & yours, BetsyRMadison (talk) 23:35, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * On March 28, the author commented on a 'Title Change Request' here . No one said a word about "extended confirmed restriction."
 * On April 26, on the author's page GCB wrote, "Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised" and never said a word about "extended confirmed restriction."
 * On April 17, GCB created a "deletion request" (here and never said a word about "extended confirmed restriction."


 * the key word here is "global". Most of them are on Wikidata and on other language wikipedias. I am not sure if it counts but it should. I forget how to get there; I had to play around with it. I think there is a link when you do a diff. I will get back to you on this. Elinruby (talk) 02:23, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I found it under "global." Thank you, that was the hint I needed. Thanks for all your hard work! I thought I'd be free this week but I was wrong. I should have more time this weekend to go over some of those sources to find English sources. However, your point that history classes in eastern Europe school were fraught decades of Soviet disinformation, makes it more challenging to find the truths that historians like Timothy Snyder & Grzegorz Motyka have been bringing to light. Best regards friend, BetsyRMadison (talk) 02:49, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * you can sign into Jstor with a google account, if that helps. Elinruby (talk) 02:59, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Also offered to help GizzyCatBella with access, and I feel pretty sure they would do the same for you. Other suggestions: Try searching in books.google.com or scholar.google.com, or see if somebody can fix you up with access to the Wikipedia library. Elinruby (talk) 04:06, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Can help with sources.....still have my alma mater access. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 04:13, 30 April 2022 (UTC)