User talk:Elinruby/Archives/2022/November

questions about NPP bot
Quck question. Is there a specific dedicated piece of software that is used for NPP? It sounds like you watch the feed. What I am trying to establish right now is whether NPPers use an attended interface like Twinkle, or whether it's more akin to a spider doing batch processing, in which case the check I have proposed will not work. Thanks. Elinruby (talk) 14:24, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * NPPers watch the feed. Some reviewers look at the oldest unreviewed articles first, some look at newest, some start in the middle, some look as specific article types or subject area. Yes, there is a tool we use filter the feed and help with other reviewer actions. MB 14:47, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for that answer, and I apologize for the delay in answering you; I had a connectivity issue. I think it would be best if I took a look at the feed interface before asking further questions, and am putting that on my list of things to do. Elinruby (talk) 19:58, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * It's at Special:NewPagesFeed and it's accompanied by a full set of excellent sophisticated tools that have been in use since 2012 and which I also helped to develop. You can see them here but you do not have the access right to use them. There are around 750 accredited New Page Reviewers, more if you count around 1,100 admins who automatically have access. None of them are expected to be polyglot. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:59, 9 November 2022 (UTC)


 * please do not post any further to my user page, as I find you insulting, and apparently it’s mutual. I will ask my questions elsewhere. Elinruby (talk) 19:54, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * (ec note: The following comment was originally composed in response to this post at section ; adding it here instead)
 * Without taking a position on the merits, it's unfair to make a comment like that that about another editor, while simultaneously disinviting them from posting on your Talk page ( next section above ) as it gives them no opportunity to defend themself. As this is your Talk page, I'm sure Kudpung would have the grace to give you the last word, even if they didn't agree with you (in fact, they have done so above previously, in their statement about disengaging, which imho you misread as a desire not to answer, but which I read as a desire not to fight with you). Imho, it's fine to ask someone not to post on your page, but in that case, decency and fairness requires you to no longer post potentially negative comments about them, which makes the post above a cheap shot. I hope that as long as Kudpung is disinvited from your page, you'll never mention their name again; that would be the decent thing. As far as regex questions, fire away! Mathglot (talk) 20:21, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Perhaps. Should I remove the comment to you, then? I simply wanted to convey that we’ve been arguing about stuff-that-is-not-what-I-said, and it’s waste of everybody’s time that isn’t fixing anything. I cced you on the regex discussion; fixing “a eu” -> “an eu” would at least be some progress. I expect a phone call at any minute so I can’t do a deep dive this second. I actually don’t object to accurate automation; somebody seems to be running a tool that fixes ., otherwise an annoying and tedious task. I will get back to you on the regex thing, thanks. Elinruby (talk) 20:37, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * aha, the comment you are talking about was in the section I just deleted as irrelevant, right? If you feel there is something else I should do to be fair, please do let me know. I don’t think it requires anything like a revdel?Thanks Elinruby (talk) 20:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I think you're good now; the current state of it is fine now, and a revdel would be overkill. Best thing now, imho, is to just let it lie, and move on. As to "a eu" etc., I responded at AWB; thanks for the ping there (didn't ping you back, as I assume you are subscribed to it). I also noticed a separate discussion there as well, and responded to that one as well. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 21:04, 17 November 2022 (UTC)


 * No, I haven’t subscribed, but perhaps I should. Incremental improvements are a hobby of mine. Elinruby (talk) 21:28, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

French criminal law
I had been working on a version of French criminal law in Draft space, and then kind of forgot about it because of all the other stuff I'm trying to get done, and then I got one of those bot warnings that it hadn't been edited in five months and was about to get deleted, so even though it's missing a section (and needs expansion elsewhere) I rushed it through to main space. It (by which I mean, the topic) is really interesting; I learned a lot working on it; their Napoleonic system is pretty different from law systems based on common law. Anyway, I thought you might enjoy having a look, to see if it interests you.

If you don't feel like working on that one, there's another approach you could take for the betterment of en-wiki's coverage of French concepts, which is to take one of the many red links and expand it into an article. That's another thing that interested me in writing this draft, which is the number of related concepts for which we have nothing here at en-wiki; it's like a whole little microcosm just waiting to be explored and expanded. Ping me over there for more details, if interested in getting involved. Mathglot (talk) 06:41, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm interested and already had done some stuff about this in the Operation Car Wash era; I say this not to brag but warn you. I had major trouble at the time with the concept of civil law as an alternate to common law vs as a type of common law, and it was actually Brazilian law that I needed, which for reasons of colonialism is based on the Napoleonic system. So I saw these difficulties as somewhat peripheral. I am pretty sure we discussed the juge d'instruction at the time? Anyway, my point is, even if I am the last editor to work on an article you link to, it isn't necessarily correct; I tried to double back and fix these issues but could easily have missed some instances. Another reason to become involved with this one, I guess. As I recall most of the articles I worked on were about different levels of court in the French system. I haven't looked at your article yet and may not today, but I will. Let me mention a couple of pitfalls while I am thinking of them, in case: "crime" in French actually is quite specific, and perhaps best translated as "misdemeanor", and "parquet", which to me means a wooden floor, in fact, as I recall, means the prosecutor, and/or perhaps the investigating judge. Not sure if you will already have encountered those. Also, indefinite detention is apparently just fine in some cases. (mise en vue?) See you in the article talk. Elinruby (talk) 18:14, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I had done some careful exploration of the meaning of crime, and as you already discovered, it doesn't line up with English crime; it has a very specific meaning in French criminal law, and is tied to a specific severity of offense that can hold a penalty of X number of years; less than that, and it's not a crime. There are brief expositions of this in the article, but more could be said about it.
 * You'll perhaps recall that there were so many new concepts wrt Brazilian law, that I had to keep offline notes about all the definitions, which I eventually turned into WP:Brazil/Glossary and created articles like Condução coercitiva just to accommodate it, and it may be I'll end up doing something like that for French law, if I keep at it. Mathglot (talk) 18:21, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Nod, I realize how methodical you are. I am happy to help but this morning I am going to tie up some loose ends and maybe do some light copyediting out of the help-help pile at the Community Portal. Maybe after coffee, but I probably need to do some re-reading before I do any serious content work on this, since it's been a couple years. I am sure your writing doesn't need the kind of MoS-and-grammar editing I am looking for ATM ;) Elinruby (talk) 18:32, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There's no rush; all in your own time. As far as peeking into a whole new world, I'm pretty excited about all those red links, but that will be a long, slow process. The reward will be the fun of just exploring it, learning about it, and then presenting it to the English-speaking viewership who (mostly) come from countries where a lot of these concepts will be completely foreign to them (as they are to me, too). As for sourcing, I've found a lot of good stuff, but Dalloz appears to be the semi-official go-to source for points of French jurisprudence, although there are plenty of other secondary sources that explain things better to the layman. Mathglot (talk) 18:40, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * For an interesting tidbit of historical background, see Talk:Éric_Zemmour/Archive_2 for the precipitating discussion or raison d'etre of the article (which I forgot myself, until I reread the Talk page of the new article). Mathglot (talk) 21:25, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks, will look. I came up with "infraction", as these seem to be offenses like littering or marijuana possession (in some states) that result in a citation not detention. I don't remember if I ever implemented this in a translation however. Elinruby (talk) 21:33, 19 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Eek, it seems that I remembered the hierarchy but not the qualitative details. "Crime" is not a misdemeanor, and "délit" != infraction. I took a look at Cour d'Assize, which is on your list of potentisl in-links, and yes, I did translate it. A couple of other people have made changes, which look appropriate; this makes me wonder, though, what I translated to "felony". I might have done better to leave in the French word and define it. Just letting you know that I have begun to nibble around the edges of this. I unFrenched it a bit. Apparently this was done after I started to get impatient with the flood of redlinks in the topic area. I remember thinking that lawyers should do this, but of course none have volunteered, so yeah, it looks important and I should also review my previous work here Elinruby (talk) 14:31, 20 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe you should ping A. C. Santacruz? What happened to the article itself? I think I remember seeing it at PNT, but as a rule I avoid BLPs, especially of contentious people, so I don't think I ever looked at it. Elinruby (talk) 16:12, 20 November 2022 (UTC)