User talk:Elkman/Archive12

SE MN Libraries
Thank you for your welcome! I have a question for you regarding posts about the libraries in SE MN that I have been tasked to do in my position at SELCO (Southeastern Libraries Cooperating). What would you recommend to me to do for future articles (& the one for LaCresent Public Library) to prevent being tagged for speedy deletion? I know you mentioned something on the history of the public library in the commununity it represests, but I may or may not be able to get ahold of the local librarian to get this history from them. Thank you! Winterstar74 (talk) 17:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)Winterstar74

LEL Championship
what if it exists?Kalajan (talk) 11:16, 5 November 2008 (UTC) i hate u —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.65.101 (talk) 03:08, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Then the feeling is mutual. If you're still bothering me about a page I deleted in April, then you have some problems.  Actually, you already have a problem in that you don't know what Wikipedia is for, and you have another problem if you think yelling at me and vandalizing my user pages is going to get your LEL championship wrestling article back.  If you really want it back, ask another admin, either at WP:AN or WP:DRV.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 05:23, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I was unexperienced and even though I still am, I'm not as much. And sorry but I didn't put in that comment "(I hate you)". Merry christmas!  Kala jan  15:23, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you
Been ages since I've had a reason to thank you, so thank you for watching my back. Looks like our pal Kirachinmoku is an eager young pup who's just barking at everything. Hopefully, your gentle reprove will impart a little wisdom. Take care, and thank you again. Gosgood (talk) 22:29, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Table for DC
First, let me thank you for making the infobox and table tools available for the NRHP. I've been cranking through the various Maryland entries and they all look terrific! I seem to be unable, however, to use Create a Wiki-formatted table of National Register properties in a given county to create a table for Washington, D.C. Would you be able to assist with this? TIA - Ted--Pubdog (talk) 11:27, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a matter of knowing the correct county name under which those properties are listed. That's tricky, because the District of Columbia has no county-level government.  I checked the database, and it turns out that the county name is listed as "District of Columbia".  So, if you enter "District of Columbia" for the county name and "DC" for the state, you get the list.
 * I went ahead and generated the list, just to see what it looks like. (I'm assuming that you're going to replace National Register of Historic Places listings in the District of Columbia in some way.)  It turns out that there are 471 properties in Washington, DC on the National Register.  That's about 6.9 National Register properties per square mile, or one National Register property for every 1249 residents.  But, more to the point, that means that the table is pretty large in Wiki markup, and it might be slow to load for some users.  (Appraiser and I had some problems with National Register of Historic Places listings in Minnesota becoming too large to edit when we had a lot of county-level tables in there, so we had to break out several individual counties.)  You might want to break the DC list down by function, or by regions of the city, or something.  Also, there are the usual corrections you'll need to apply, such as correcting all the entries that have a person's last name first, correcting listings that have Wikipedia entries under another name, and adding listings for anything that was added after the database was updated back in April.  You might be busy for a while.  :) --Elkman (Elkspeak) 15:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Your block
Just an FYI - that user has been blocked as a troll until February. I don't see any reason why you should be blocked. --Rschen7754 (T C) 06:05, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Because I SCREWED UP, that's why. I screwed up big time by yelling at him in language unbefitting an administrator, or even unbefitting a Wikipedia user, or even unbefitting a civilized human being.  It doesn't matter if it was back in August or if it was 15 seconds ago; the fact is that I SCREWED UP.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 06:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, any instance of admin misconduct on my part completely undoes any of the work I've done to improve Wikipedia in the past three or so years. Any mistake I make, no matter how severe or how trivial, is a detriment to the project.  It doesn't matter if I've worked on a few featured articles, or if I've written a few articles about houses and grain elevators that nobody cares about, or if I've slapped together a buggy infobox generator.  The people on Wikipedia Review don't care about it.  What they do care about is the fact that I do a lousy job as an admin.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 00:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Lake Palmer

 * Thank you for deleting the above, I am afraid that it has been recreated and the author has slightly reworded the article and is now probably having a great laugh that it is being taken seriously! Regards. Paste Talk 18:50, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added a PROD tag. Paste Talk 18:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Some complaint
Hey man Im trying to make a page for the legendary Domeshire Manor at Ohio State. It is a land mark on campus and I was about to make a page with members. If you give me time I can put newspaper references from the Columbus Dispatch. Don't be a jack ass just give me some time to finish it. Thanks, Ericjamesmac

--agree with above, admin does not give enough time to edit a page before being deleted :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Landmarkrg (talk • contribs) 20:16, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

City tables
How do you produce a table for a city like Lancaster, Pennsylvania using your county table generator. I submitted a query for Baltimore to see if I was doing it right and it worked. But when I repeated the query for Lancaster it doesn't. Any ideas? I know the tool can be a bit finicky, so maybe I was just off by a little bit in inputing the query. Thanks. --​​​​D.B. talk •contribs 06:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The city of Lancaster is within the county of Lancaster, so you would just have to pull them out of the county listings. Since Baltimore is not in any county, Elkman's generator is set up to pull the city listings.--Appraiser (talk) 17:24, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, if you want, I could take the code from the county list generator and make a version that just queries the listings for a particular city, if that's appropriate. It wouldn't be a big deal.  Let me know if you want this, and I'll start up Emacs and make a new city list generator.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That'd be extremely useful and if its not too much trouble. --​​​​D.B. talk •contribs 05:31, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I just "test drove" the generator in Brookline, Massachusetts. Hopefully, other people will find it as helpful as I have. I've been busy with finals and such, so I couldn't have done any NRHP tables until now anyways. Take care. --​​​​D.B. talk •contribs 05:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Torga
Hello.

Could you please restore the edit history of Torga for me, assuming it was not copyvio? If you like, you can redirect it to List of Forgotten Realms characters if appropriate. Thanks! :) BOZ (talk) 18:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * The previous article on this was very short -- all it said was, "A Demon and final boss of paper game". That qualified it for speedy deletion under WP:CSD A1, article doesn't provide any context.  I don't think it would be all that useful to recreate it with that content, since someone would probably just speedily delete it again.  The edit history in that case isn't worth restoring.  You might as well just create a new version of the article, and give it enough context so it stands on its own.  Or, go ahead and redirect it to List of Forgotten Realms characters.  I don't have any objections either way.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:26, 6 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Yep, that's probably not useful. I'll let someone else recreate it one day if they think it's worthwhile. :) BOZ (talk) 15:27, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

MPS/TR infoboxes
Hey there, is there a way to get the infobox generator to do one for a TR or MPS, or do I need to do it manually? Cheers, Murderbike (talk) 23:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you thinking of generating an infobox in the Infobox nrhp format, or a different type of infobox? If I wanted to do something like that, I'd have to query all the properties in an MPS, and there could be several properties a long distance apart.  I have an existing query for all properties in an MPS at this link, but I'm not sure how an infobox for all of that would look.  If you query for "Reinforced-Concrete Highway Bridges in Minnesota MPS", it will bring up a list of bridges all over the state of Minnesota.  It wouldn't make sense to try and generate an infobox that tries to include the coordinates, nearest cities, and architects.
 * Or, are you interested in a list of all the properties in a table format, similar to the county list (and the city list that has been requested above)? That would be easier to do, and would probably make more sense for someone reading the list.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 00:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was thinking of an infobox like the one at Religious Structures of Woodward Ave. TR. I'll probably tableize it as well, but I always do infobox first. Murderbike (talk) 00:26, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * PS, do you think it makes sense to change the "architect" parameter to "architect(s)"? Murderbike (talk) 00:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

DYK for Giant Forest Lodge Historic District
Thanks for your DYK nom on Giant Forest Lodge Historic District. It was nice to find a subject with some meat on its bones, and it was a pleasant surprise to find it leading the DYK's!  Acroterion  (talk)  05:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. I thought it was interesting that the National Park Service demolished a property that was on the National Register so they could protect the natural resources of the park.  It's an interesting tradeoff.  I just wonder how many person-months were spent meeting in conference rooms and writing reports before they could come to that decision.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 05:29, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * the fact that it took seventy years to come to pass says a great deal: three or four generations of civil servants. Acroterion  (talk)  17:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

WWE SD vs. Raw 2010
Hey man, listen They are going to create SD! vs. Raw 2010 for next year, but right now nobody knows anything about it yet, it will be released in November, but what date, is undecided by THQ, so you might want to recreate Smackdown vs. Raw 2010 page, because the systems that will have this game will be more likely to be the PS2, Xbox 360, PS3, and the Wii.

(CMpunk2010 (talk) 17:38, 11 December 2008 (UTC)).


 * The previous version of that article was very short and didn't have any context. All it said was, "WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2010 Might Be And Have A New Name And The Release Date Is Unknown."  That doesn't provide enough context for an encyclopedia article.  In fact, if nobody knows anything about it yet, there still isn't enough information to create a Wikipedia article on the subject.  We need reliable sources to create an article on the topic.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 17:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok, so when it is announce its gets created, I thought the new one goes up after the year is done with? (CMpunk2010 (talk) 20:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC))

LNER Peppercorn Class A1
(originally posted on Gwernol's talk page, but he seems to be inactive now)

This article is a battleground between three editors (MickMacNee, Tony May and Biscuittin). In response to a request on the UKT talk page I gave the article a look, downgraded it from B to C class and commented on the talk page on what needed doing, and gave an example showing one way that consensus could be gained on the area that they differ on. So far, Biscuittin has shown some positive response, and made a start on providing references. MickMacNee and Tony May are still wearing their POV blinkers.

I've been aware of the situation for a while, an currently it is at informal mediation with no sign of any progress being made. Would the next step be RFC or AN/I? Wherever the issue is raised, I'd say that all three should be given a fairly short ban from editing the page for any reason, including vandalism (say one month), with a one year block for violation of said ban. They would be allowed to communicate via the article talk page if they had any concerns over the article. That would allow enough time for other editors to work on the article secure in the knowledge that they are not going to be reverted by one of the three belligerents. Mjroots (talk) 06:07, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It's rather late at night (on this side of the pond), so I've given the article and the situation a cursory look. I noticed that there's a rather extensive discussion on the talk page, and there's also an informal mediation in progress (as you mentioned).  I don't want to screw up the mediation by blocking users or banning them unilaterally from editing the page, because that would probably cause more problems than it could solve.  If the edit wars continue, I (or any other admin) could protect the page and ask everyone to use the talk page to resolve the dispute.  Actually, though, it might be better to get more people's opinions on it, as someone else mentioned at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways.
 * I don't think the continued placement of tags like refimprove, disputed, citationneeded, noreferences-section, and so on is going to help out with the central dispute. As far as I can tell (from a limited reading), the dispute is whether locomotive 60163 is the 50th member of the class, or whether it's a replica created from the original designs.  Edit warring over tags isn't solving the problem.  I also noticed that there are several references regarding the disputed content about the commissioning of locomotive 60163, but there are only a few references regarding the history of the locomotive and its original service.
 * If you want my personal opinion, based on a quick reading, I'd say that it's a replica based off the original designs. 60163 wasn't built on the same production line or with the same tooling as the original 49 locomotives.  I'd have to investigate the article further and look into the edit histories of the users involved, and since it's nearly 1 AM here, it's probably too late for me to even try.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 06:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for you comments. As I stated on the talk page, according to WP:V, Tornado is a class member. WP:NPOV requires that disputed claims are reported on from both sides of the dispute, does it not? Therefore the text should reflect that some are of the opinion that Tornado is a class member, and some are of the opinion that it is a replica. The issue is not so urgent that it requires immediate action, but something needs to be done within the next 24-48 hours to break the impasse. I merely replaced a section refimprove tag with a general refimprove tag, as more than one section needs refs improving. I did consider removing the disputed tag, but decided not to as I would most likely antagonise at least one of the three involved editors. Your comments as to why you consider the locomotive to be a replica are valid ones, and I can see that side of the arguement. I have pointed both mediators to the article talk page so they can see the discussion and suggestions made. Mjroots (talk) 08:06, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your honesty over this. I'll ask another admin. Mjroots (talk) 06:22, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I'm not really much of an honest person. In fact, the off-Wikipedia incident that prompted my message convinced me that I'm a pretty damn selfish person, and that my bad temper makes me unsuitable for doing anything that requires getting along with other people.  (I think other Wikipedia editors found this out about me some time ago, so who am I kidding?)  I mainly told you this so I wouldn't let a bad situation get worse.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 06:29, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, that displays some self-knowledge and a degree of honesty, so don't give up just yet, eh? Guy (Help!) 14:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, I was going to say......
Erm, cos you're a human being and we all make mistakes sometimes? Not sure what screwups you're referring to, but I'm sure anyone who criticises and says they haven't made a mistake before would be telling porkies. If you do take a break, let us know when you're coming back and we'll stick the kettle on :o) ColourSarge (talk) 01:33, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Note to myself
I need to mind my OWN BUSINESS, not anyone else's. And if I can't stop screwing up here, and if I can't avoid the near occasion of screwups, maybe I should find something better to do with my time. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 22:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

hardiness zone -reply
Yes, i see, i was just referring to the wiki hardiness zone page which says its in a zone 5, which surprised me too because from the maps ive seen its only been in a zone 4, you may want to update this page to keep it more up to date as well.

Thanks

--Jd.101 (Jd.101speak) 21:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Also I was wondering if the 'urban heat island' has any effect on minneapolis's plant hardiness, but its still likely to be a zone 4. --Jd.101 (Jd.101speak) 20:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

December 2008
This is your only warning. The next time you make a personal attack, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Elkman (Elkspeak) 00:32, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Impersonation
Our favorite sockpuppeteer is now impersonating you. See User talk:Ebyabe, User talk:No Guru, User talk:Wknight94. Welcome to the Liebman parade... :) --Ebyabe (talk) 00:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Great Northern Depot
Hi, i noticed your dyk. I don't get it. How could he build it 12 years after he moved it? Also in the article, when he "relented" did that mean he built a depot at the stop which had been created at Ferndale Road (is the current depot at Ferndale Road)? Also it would seem he relented already, to begin stopping there, they already didn't have to walk out of town? Maybe it's just me: the dyk is already approved, and I am still a bit rusty after a wikibreak. Happy holidays! doncram (talk) 18:26, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I clarified the hook at T:TDYK so "it" wouldn't be ambiguous. I also clarified the article, Great Northern Depot (Wayzata, Minnesota), to mention that the current depot is right in downtown, the Ferndale stop was a third of a mile west, and the old depot was about three blocks east.  Actually, would a map help in that article?  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 19:55, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Message from Ron Liebman impersonating "Baseball Bugs"
Hi. This is "Baseball Bugs" In case you are wondering, I am still weighing the pros and cons of my retirement. I am discussing the matter further with my family and my friends during this Holiday season. I will also have another session with my priest. I will be surprised, though, if this will not have been my last Chrismas at Wikipedia. How are you? Don't forget to share your information about problem editors (including vandals and sockpuppeteers) with Wknight94 so that he can include it in his list to Georgewilliamherbert(due in January). Happy New Year. Greetings and salutations. --Baseball Bugs (talk) (talk) 21:34, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The only problem editor I know of here is you, Ron Liebman. Now go away.  Go far, far away.  Nobody cares about your claimed "expertise" in baseball.  You're already banned; you can't get any more banned than that.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 23:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi
If you do more than a cursory glance at the user page of the blocked user, you will see why I am happy with his block. I repudiate the views he esposes on his user page, and much of his editing. You will also note that, although I agree with Bedford on some things politically, I avoid editing Civil War articles because it would just be a headache. Your post would seem to indicate that I have stated somewhere that the South has been wronged, and I challenge you to find one edit that substantiates this. As the direct descendent of a Civil War vetran who served honorably when he answered the call to duty, I am proud of that service. One should not forget that service nor cease to honor it when the cause later becomes unpopular. The profession of arms is a noble calling. Honoring those who made the ultimate sacrafice for hearth and home is perfectly legitamate. Hope I cleared up any misconceptions you might have had.Die4Dixie (talk) 22:36, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Coords for restricted addresses
Having just finished placing tables on the List of RHPs in WY, I was surprised at the listing for the North Albany Clubhouse in Albany County. Although its address is restricted, the table generator produced a specific set of coords, which when put into Google Maps satellite view, depicts a small building without any other buildings around — I'm sure it's the right one. Do you have any idea how/why the coords for this property appeared but those for others don't? I'm rather curious :-)  Nyttend (talk) 22:39, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * How the NRHP determines the address restricted thing is weird. There are a number here in Florida that are perfectly easy to find. Who can figure out the gummint mind? :) --Ebyabe (talk) 22:59, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Apparently, there are a few properties in the National Register database that have "Address Restricted" as the address, but they don't have an "X" in the "xrestrict" field. The "xrestrict" field appears to be the flag that says the address is not for publication.  There are 5059 properties in the National Register database that have this flag set.  Most of those are sensitive archaeological sites where they don't want people to come in looting for archaeological remains.   On the other hand, there are 79 properties in the database that say "Address Restricted" and don't have the "xrestrict" flag set.  Of those, 60 actually have coordinates in the database.  I suspect that those are cases where there are no street addresses nearby that they could use.  There could also be occasional data errors in there.  Second and Market Streets Historic District, in Louisville, Kentucky, is listed as "Address Restricted", though I suspect that if I walked down Market Street in Louisville, I'd start seeing historic buildings in the 200 block.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 23:55, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I know that there's a way that owners can object to having their properties listed, like that diner in Lima, Ohio. With non-archeological properties, do they ask the owner (if there is one) about restricting the address?  Today I added the address and the coords for a botanical garden in Pennsylvania (can't remember the county) that (1) was restricted, but (2) has a website that gives the address.  Nyttend (talk) 23:03, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It was Delaware County. Nyttend (talk) 23:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome
Elkman, I appreciate the list of Wiki references. It is a bit overwhelming to absorb all this at once. I published the first monograph on the firm of Purcell & Elmslie in 1994 and have published over fifty articles and essays on their work, and think they deserve a better presence on Wikipedia than they have. Some basic stuff both on the firm entry and their personal biographies that I added in 2006 has since disappeared, replaced with next to nothing or worse, personal irrelevancies. I see the checkbox for notification of page mods now, so I will keep an eye out. Thanks again for your response -- Organicus (Mark Hammons) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Organicus (talk • contribs) 21:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Fort Dearborn move
The Fort Dearborn article was moved yesterday without discussion. I've put out a request to have it moved back to its original location. As you've edited the Fort Dearborn article in the passed, please weigh in on the discussion on the current Fort Dearborn talk page. Shsilver (talk) 13:03, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

User talk:65.80.55.213
I also never wrote any such thing about Obama, nor anyone else. The IP address is mistaken. (Or substitute any appropriate term of ridicule in place of that last word.) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That IP emanates from Louisville. I don't recall discussing anything with anyone from Louisville, but it could be a "sister" IP of someone I turned in at WP:AIV, or who knows what. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I checked and you obviously didn't say anything like that. I'm sure you wouldn't, anyway.  That's why I removed the message -- because it was offensive.  At least the IP didn't say anything about you retiring from Wikipedia, though.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 15:04, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Normally I keep even the offensive stuff and just archive it, but this one I don't want in my archives. And I don't think that other guy you're referring to would stoop to that level. He's a pest, but he's not a racist. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 15:09, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Delisted NRHP properties
Hi, can you tell how many NRHP properties there are in NRIS which have been delisted? It might be helpful info if you could chime in at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places. Thanks! doncram (talk) 11:06, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

WWE Roster
Thank you for protecting, though the project hates to see it protected, problems need to be sorted out and maybe this time the protection will end the ongoing edit wars.-- Will C  03:07, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Can you please unlock the page, a consensus has been reached that we are going to remove the of screen guys to prevent argues and wars. Kala jan  €  ₣  21:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A consensus has not been reached, you just decided that would happen and no one other than myself has commented on it so far.  Hazardous   Matt   22:01, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Kalajan: I don't see any evidence that a consensus has been reached. Don't pretend that something has changed just so you can go back and repeat the same disruptive behavior that got you blocked in the first place.  Unless I see clear evidence on the talk page that everyone agrees on who's going to be included, I'm going to leave the article protected.  Frankly, it'll take someone other than you to make that point, since you've proven all too eager to get back to editing (as shown by three unblock requests) even though you don't seem to grasp the meaning of consensus.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 22:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

DYK suggestion, an article you created
Hello Elkman. An article you created, Ames-Florida House, has been nominated at T:TDYK for main page exposure as part of the Did You Know? column. If you could check out the nomination here, ensuring that the hook used is okay and that the fact used in that hook is backed with an inline citation in the article following the fact's appearance, that would be most excellent. --IvoShandor (talk) 03:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That looks good to me. Thanks for nominating it.  The citation is supported by the book Historic Homes of Minnesota.  I was curious as to why balloon framing hadn't spread to Minnesota by 1856, even though it had gotten its start in Chicago a few decades earlier.  My guess is that Ames and Florida were master carpenters and brought their own house-building knowledge.  I also checked out the book Homes in the Heartland (available at Google Books) and it sounds like the construction method took a while to become accepted.  Besides, in frontier Minnesota in 1856, there weren't a lot of lumberyards selling dimensional lumber.  It's much easier now to get into the truck, drive to Menards, and dig through a pile of 2x4s to find a few that aren't bent.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:26, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

WWE Employees
You protected the List of WWE Employees page due to edit warring, but there are changes needing made. ECW Champion is changing and there's a wrestler returning after being inactive (Ted DiBiase) and he's also joined The Leagacy so that needs changed. Can you do that? - 86.165.60.192 (talk) 11:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I was going to thank you for unprotecting the WWE Employees page, but I think it was premature. I think you're right on some of the points you made in the "unprotected" posting. For the most part, there are sources that are trusted. Most of the project members want to abide by those sources. The problem is not everyone believes a random, non-fact-checking website doesn't qualify as a reliable source. As for ranting about the protection, yes, a lot of people were doing so, rather than discussing the updates that needed to be made. There seems to be a certain sense of urgency with many of the contributors to the wrestling articles, specifically that the article needs to be update as soon as something happens, rather than waiting for a reliable source. (If you notice, the page received edits about once a minute since the protection has been removed.) As for discussing blocks, yeah, I'm guilty of that, but I tried to steer the conversation back to something project related. I don't know. I just see the page being protected relatively soon. Thanks anyway. :)  Hazardous   Matt   19:48, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Man, you were trashed after you left. I just wanted to let you know that some not-so nice replies were left for you in your "Unprotected" thread. Also, restoring it's previous indefinite semi-protection may be a good idea, thanks!  iMatthew //  talk  // 20:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:NPA
I've reported you for this at the WP:administrators noticeboard, just letting you know. Kala jan  €  ₣  20:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

January 2009
in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for. You are welcome to make useful contributions after the block expires. If you believe this block is unjustified you may contest this block by adding the text below.


 * Why do you keep blocking yourself?-- Will C  20:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yikes, Elk. I know it's cold out, but sweet jebus.  Relax.  Little "X" in the top corner should do the trick, stop messin' with the block button, eh? Keeper  | 76  20:47, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Actions have consequences. Screwups have consequences.  I had no business getting involved with the wrestling page in the first place, but I just had to go check out something I saw at User talk:Jimbo Wales instead of doing what I should be doing on here.  Which is either finishing NRHP in Hennepin County, or doing nothing.  The second option is greatly preferred at this point.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:49, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You did not abuse the tools by blocking somebody you were involved with a dispute with or even threatening too. People who have said far worse things have not been blocked.  I see no reason for this (and really no reason for kaljans running to AN crying abuse).  Chris lk02  Chris Kreider 20:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * (/ec)The temp at my house (and I'm sure yours as well) is -12 degrees F. Warmed up 10 degrees since this morning's -20.  This weekend, we should hit 30 above.  Maybe come back then?  <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper  | <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76  20:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, no more edits for me until the temperature here reaches 30 above. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 21:14, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Re:WWE Roster talk
Well, I guess you won't shy away from making this personal. For starters, I said I didn't know who the user was, not because I didn't know User:Elkman protected the page, but because I HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU ARE. So, I did read the sections, and if you thought not, you thought incorrectly. Second of all, I had nothing to do with the edit war, and the edits I make to any page on Wikipedia I believe to be constructive. So, when I am deemed not capable of editing an article, when I have only done constructive edits for it, it upsets me. Of course, I don't own the article, and I never insinuated you did either [regardless of your accusation]. I just pointed out that you don't and shouldn't think so, not that you do. Third of all, I deliberately wrote "With all due respect" so you wouldn't take the criticism of your decision to protect the article personally, but then again I don't blame you because I, in all fairness, take almost everything personally too.

Now here goes the real issue...

You told me you addressed my "tactless" comments on the talk page. (Of course, for it to be tactless, it had to be inconsiderate, and I was very considerate to every user who wasn't involved in the edit war, and to even those who were). I joined Wikipedia almost 2 years ago, and I haven't had a bad experience with any admin before, but you sir, have crossed the line. You're supposed authority, you must remember, is just being called an admin on a free encyclopedia site (no much more authority then someone who is level 50 in an MMORPG).

You insulted every user involved in WikiProject Professional Wrestling including other admins, which are involved. Your comment "I suppose I was expecting too much for a group of professional wrestling fans to agree on how to edit an article. After reading this article and this article, I have more of an insight into the minds of today's 18- to 24-year olds." is completely inappropiate, it bites users, is completely civil and involves personal attacks. I would suggest you read WP:ADMIN about the nature of your conduct, and the sanctions that are proper, as I should recommend you to be stripped from your access and "abilities". However, I will not. I will explain that I am currently a Biology major at the InterAmerican University in Puerto Rico, and frankly, I have more important things to do than edit Wikipedia. Wikipedia is mainly a hobby, and I encourage to everyone that it should be that way. The way you are treating it is a job and a way to enforce your authority (at least when you dealt with WP:PW). If I were you, I'd think before I write these types of comments, and maybe even not waste the time of writing them at all, instead of wasting time blocking yourself.

The user, Kalajan, was rightfully blocked, and should have been blocked for longer. The protection of the article was unnecessary, and I criticized it with no attitude. You, however, answered with tremendous attitude, as you were upset. WP:COOL, WP:UPSET and WP:CONSENSUS should help you with these situations. I am no admin, but this doesn't mean you are above me. I still, with all due respect, recommend you to cool down and seek consensus in a proper way, and in no way will I take you to ANI. I respect you, for you are an admin, and even though its not a big deal, it is a kind of reward for your work on Wikipedia. And if you are the editor, your adminship represents, then you will heed this advice, because the next person might not be so kind.  <font color="DarkBlue">Raagio  T / C    Guest Book    01:35, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

This is your only warning. The next time you make a personal attack, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Elkman (Elkspeak) 01:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That's directed at myself, by the way. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 01:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Request for de-adminship
This is a request for a steward at Meta to remove my adminship. Clearly, I no longer have the trust of the community or the temperament necessary to remain an admin. It's causing me too much stress and has brought me into too many situations that I should just ignore and mind my own business. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 02:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, stop it now. You said you weren't editing anymore, at least until it's warmer. (I'm in my house, but my feet feel like ice cubes atm...)  Why are you letting the children upset you?  The median age of that particular wikiproject, bless em, is about 12 years old.  Take a break and re-evaluate tomorrow.  I'm also an "admin", but I rarely if ever use the buttons or get involved in the drama anymore.  Way too stressful, took the fun right out of the wikipedia-funbag for me personally.  But no need to go and give the tools up, they may come in handy if you need to see deleted edits or move pages over redirects when you are editing.  Take a break, tis all that's needed. I've been on a semi-formal break since October for similar reasons.   <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper  | <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76  03:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You've had a bad day on all fronts and you continue to have my trust. Last I noticed, a conscience is desirable, at least until it becomes paralyzing. I personally prefer Irish whiskey as a conscience relaxer, with the side benefit of warming you up there on the frozen tundra. As for wrestling, it's ... wrestling . Jeez. If you want drama and cries for scalps, go hang out at WP:RFA. Otherwise, make a non-admin sock: User:Mooseman appears to be available (or the ungulate of your choice), and edit with that for a while, if you feel compelled to edit.  Acroterion  (talk)  04:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Too late. The desysopping went through at Meta already.  And, apparently, it's considered bad form to insult wrestling fans.  See the message from Raagio (or is it Raggio?) above.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You made some school children angry, tis all. Either way, it sounds like you burnt out on adminning anyway, I was just trying to get you to hold the tools in case you changed your mind down the road.  Basically, you took a chair to the back of the head, you recoiled, then slammed someone to the mat and pinned their arms and pulled their hair.  Wrestling.  WikiProject.  I hope you can enjoy Wikipedia again.  <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper  | <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76  04:22, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * At least you can't block yourself anymore, so there's one benefit. Others will occur to you. Due to my personal incompetence at templates and such, I use your NRHP infobox generator every bleeding day to make articles about obscure and insignificant log cabins that somebody filled out some government forms for. Nevertheless, it makes me happy, and by extension, not having to fool with a template field increases my modest joy. There's a lot to be said for small joys and the avoidance of aggravation.  Acroterion  (talk)  05:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * A handful of editors had a little fit because you acted human, hardly losing the "trust of the community." <font face="Broadway">Mr.Z-man 05:46, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * And you haven't lost my faith in your administrator qualities, Elkman. Please reconsider. <font color="#CC0000">seicer &#x007C; <font color="#669900">talk  &#x007C; <font color="#669900">contribs  05:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Read what User:Tiptoety said here: "While Elkman needs a stern waring, and to be honest I am beginning to question his ability as a administrator." --Elkman (Elkspeak) 06:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You can't be de-sysoped for the opinion of one individual. Hell, it's not even a blockable offense. A RFA is a place where praise and criticisms receive an equal forum, and any attempt to censor negative feelings regarding a potential administrator should be reverted. I don't view RFAs as a place for pile-ons of one-line statements, but as a place where real discussions regarding real editors can take place. People need to press the buttons, ask the important questions and give charging, and viable statements, and to be able to defend them and uphold them when asked. You've done nothing wrong; no one is going to block you or even request your de-sysoping, because they know, as well as you, that it would be a lost case. <font color="#CC0000">seicer &#x007C; <font color="#669900">talk  &#x007C; <font color="#669900">contribs  06:06, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Truth be told, I was probably in danger of being deadminned by someone else anyway, either for my rude language and personal attacks, or for my habit of blocking myself. I'm not sure if the deadminning would have come from ArbCom or from Jimbo, but either way, I've made way too many screwups as an admin lately.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 06:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Elkman, I echo what Acroterion said about your skill with templates and the utility of the generator you created. You are a valuable editor, with or without the admin buttons. If you ever need help from someone who has them, be sure to let me know. Jonathunder (talk) 15:14, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth Elkman, I think you were doing the right thing for the WP:PW project. I wish the ed result was different.  Hazardous   Matt   15:21, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * To Keeper: Don't assume everyone at WP:PW is under 12, because some are over 12. I do agree, however, that a lot of time some users act like 12 year olds [and possibly younger]. D.M.N. (talk) 17:03, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Uncontroversial circumstances (more or less) and by your own request, so ask for the bit back when it's warmer and you;re cooler. And in the mean time, is the de: user active?  If not you can get the username reassigned. Guy (Help!) 20:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently, the Elkman at de-wp has been making a lot of the same edits as I've been making here at en-wp, mostly in National Register of Historic Places articles. I think they have some sort of import script set up to bring articles from en-wp to de-wp, and there's a user account under my name there.  I'm not sure what their interest is in St. Croix Boom Site, but they're mirroring something there.  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 20:21, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I would hate to be you right now. Anyway dude, just cool off. I'm from WT:PW and there are alot of users there who do not understand the rules. I want to say you did the right thing by protecting the WWE roster. Don't let the drama get to you man.-- Will C  20:27, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Elkman, like I said, I respect you as an admin. However, I'm going to have to ask this question. What the hell? Here's the problem. If you ACTUALLY want to "deadminize" yourself, you can request it personally, and they will give it to you. There is no need for this drama. I get it you were upset, and I also got upset once with an admin when I began in Wikipedia, and clearly you have the trust of many users. But, for all means, just stand up for what you think is right. Keep on imposing your decisions, and making edits that you think are right. Don't submit to other people, and don't get down on yourself just because I wrote that message on your talk page. A lot of users would die to be an admin, and you got the opportunity to leave your mark. You get to choose which type of mark. A good one or a bad one. Of course, Kalajan a good faith editor, took you to ANI. So what? You made a mistake. You told some people to fuck off and leave you alone. The problem is that some of those people or didn't do anything or just had your best interests. I still think I have your best interests when I wrote that message and when I write this one, but maybe you'll take it the wrong way. Who knows? One thing is for sure. You are an admin, you have a chance, and you should stop jokingly sanctioning yourself, because in reality, we all will meet with  assholes  like Kalajan who are "out to get you". Get yourself together, and start doing what's right. (I.E. Like going to my talk page and warning me for implying Kalajan is an asshole) Cheers,  Raaggio  22:02, 16 January 2009 (UTC) (BTW, it's Raaggio now, I had a typ-o when I requested for renaming)

NRHP-related question/request
By the way, I like your work in List of RHPs in Hennepin. The NRHP list-articles and the individual pages aren't for all readers, of course, but i think they are informative and nice in a low-key way serving historically-minded persons in many locales.

Anyhow, I find myself adding links to the NRHP MPS / MRA documents mentioned in some articles' NRHP infoboxes, and I wonder if you could provide a one-off report on all the MPS/MRA documents in your database, organized by state. Like this useful this one-off report on disambig pages you did, which i went through systematically once, and have revisited recently to recreate a couple that got deleted. (If you wouldn't mind expanding that dab report all the way to 2 duplicate entries, too, i'd like that also.) I'd like to go through the MPS's and create stubs that at least provide links to the PDF documents available at the NPS. In individual articles' infoboxes, I have often put in a direct link to the relevant PDF doc, but as an external link that is not exactly correct. It would be better just to put the MPS doc name in double square brackets, and create a short/stub article for each one. I've also done that some.

Hope it warms up in Minnesota soon. Cheers, doncram (talk) 22:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks a million! Compare the new section in List of RHPs in NY, prepared using your tool, vs. similar section in List of RHPs in ND.  The NYS version links to articles, of which only two have already been created, while the ND links to the PDF files from the National Register.  I think that the new NYS arrangement is actually better, although it will take some time to create articles and link, from them, to the relevant PDFs.  I may start adding that to other state lists, hmm, List of RHPs in MN next?  Will do and open for discussion at Talk page there whether it is a help.  More cheers... doncram (talk) 05:03, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, absolutely, will hold off now. I had just stopped at 2 anyhow.  By all means reporting how many properties affected by each one would be very informative as to which to keep in a state-wide list, which priorities to develop.  I did not conceive of the possibility that you could just calculate those numbers from the database, i was thinking we'd have to read each MPS before having any idea. Thanks. doncram (talk) 06:49, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Point taken

 * I'm unkind, unintelligent, insane, a troll, and incapable of keeping my temper. And, I can't edit a DAMN FUCKING THING on here without screwing up even more.

Doncram, I'll have to wait until midweek next week to do anything about that Multiple Property Submission thing. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 17:14, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Sigh. The message for you on my talk page was in the thread that, you know, you actually participated in.  The one that directly answered a comment you made.  Not a comment in a different thread, where I was talking about something else. I wasn't talking about you in the diff you quote, but you know what? Your tantrums are starting to grate a little. --barneca (talk) 00:16, 18 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks, there's no rush, although I am looking forward to it. I think that systematic coverage of the MPSs will nicely complement the individual NRHP articles and the list-articles.  Cheers, doncram (talk) 01:02, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello! there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath and respond there as soon as possible.

Thomas Paine Cottage
After the thread on the nrhp page, I substantially rewrote the article by going back to the sources. Pls feel free to take a look and help improve the article. Thanks dm (talk) 22:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Tables for Alaska
Alaska is still without tables for its NRHP sites; I would have added them by now, but I've become a little confused with the generator. Some boroughs and census areas come out fine, such as Wade Hampton Census Area (an amazing total of 0 sites), Dillingham Census Area, North Slope Borough, and Bristol Bay Borough, but it says that ones such as Prince of Wales-Outer Ketchikan Census Area don't exist. It's also likely been confused by the recent separation of Skagway from the former Skagway-Hoonah-Angoon Census Area, which has now been reduced to Hoonah-Angoon; it says that neither S-H-A nor H-A exists, and searching Skagway gets the same result whether or not I have "independent city" clicked. Not complaining; I'm just curious if there's something I can do better? Nyttend (talk) 05:16, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Prince of Wales-Outer Ketchikan Census Area is abbreviated as "Prince of Wales-Outer K.", and Skagway-Hoonah-Angoon is listed as "Skagway-Yakutat-Angoon". Here's a complete list of boroughs in Alaska from the National Register database:

Oh, and I just realized that I did the query without checking the listing code to see if all of the properties are actually listed. I didn't exclude the ones where the owner objected to listing, or where something was removed from the National Register. Still, this should be a semi-approximate result. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 14:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I never knew before that Yakutat (now a separate city-borough) was once part of the census area. I suppose that we'll also have to account for Wrangell, which recently incorporated as a city-borough; you know, it would be a lot easier for us Wikipedia editors if Alaska didn't keep on creating new counties :-)  Thanks for the help!  Nyttend (talk) 19:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Doing alright?
How you holding up? <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper | <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76  04:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, other than working on that NRHP MPS stuff, and doing a new article about Lucien Galtier, I haven't had much interest in editing anything really substantial. I've been having doubts for a while about the importance of the stuff I've been editing, but it seems like a lot more people care about who's currently wrestling for WWE than some dead guy with a name you can't pronounce.  Even though wrestling fans have to use a heavy dose of suspension of disbelief, it's still reality to a lot of people.  There's not a lot of interest out there in the guy who kept this metropolitan area from being named "Minneapolis-Pig's Eye".  --Elkman (Elkspeak) 05:25, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Can I humbly suggest that many of us appreciate the work you do? dm (talk) 12:24, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

A comment
The building of St. Vincent De Paul Roman Catholic Church (New Orleans)‎ has been around since 1866; in fact, the congregation was first established in 1838. And even though five parishes merged into one, and even though the building suffered major fire damage in 2003 and then got hit by Hurricane Katrina in 2006, the building is still around.

Meanwhile, wrestlers can be hired or fired by the WWE at a moment's notice. I wouldn't be surprised if there are all sorts of fake hirings and firings all the time, just to put on a good show.

And yet wrestling, at least as far as a lot of editors on Wikipedia are concerned, is far more important than old church buildings in New Orleans.

--Elkman (Elkspeak) 00:02, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

....And there are editors that think Pokemon is the only important topic here. Or British Museums about trams. Or lakes. Or goldfish. Or scuba equipment. Or the Simpsons. Or churches in New Orleans. Or murder victims. Or WWE. Unfortunately, the frustration is in the demographics of the users: median age of "active Wikipedians" = 12. Maybe not physical age, but mental age most certainly. By very definition, that means that pop culture topics will have disproportionately larger numbers of editors, therefore larger chances of ensuing drama. Frankly, it seems there's more interest in the drama (which is of course natural - for example, how often do you notice the cars on your way to work? I bet you notice the ones that have crashed into each other, but you rarely remember the silver Honda that passed going the speed limit). There will always be a set of editors, in large number, that are more concerned with the minor characters of a manga, or a star wars character, and those editors will always outnumber those trying to build pages about the forgotten and obscure poets, neighborhoods, churches, films, villages, etc. That doesn't diminish the important place and task of those that choose to work towards enhancing the lesser-known areas, it magnifies it, and I'm truly sorry you feel otherwise at the moment. I hope you rediscover the enthusiasm that brought you here, because your work is valuable and crucial for the balance within the project. Honestly, I've struggled myself lately, in large part because of the idiocy and bureaucracy that seems to have become the norm. I admit I think its the admin part. I don't use the tools anymore, haven't for months. The drama drags otherwise solid, dedicated editors into the fray because of the sense of obligation that follows a successful rfa (usually onset by a plea for help somewhere that's hard to ignore - think car crash victim). Once the view of this place is skewed towards only seeing the car crashes, we forget just how critical it is to focus on the cars that are still moving along waiting to be noticed and tended to (wow, I stretched that analogy way past its breaking point). And no, I'm not drunk, that you for asking :-) Take care of yourself.  Spring is coming!   <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper  | <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76  04:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Keeper beat me to Pokemon. I'm sitting here composing an article of Frank Pierce Milburn, probably the most prolific southern American architect of the early 20th century, and virtually unknown. He has no article here: a crime. He designed the bizarre cupola on the South Carolina State House; he designed the old Florida Capitol.  Not that I particularly admire most of his work; much of it is cookbook institutional dreck, but many of his buildings are locally loved. People looking for information on the guy who designed the county courthouse, which they love so much that they'll donate for its preservation, should be able to see a referenced and categorized list of his works, and a discussion of his life. We're fighting the good fight, and WWE and Pokemon can keep the kiddies busy while we do things that we care about.   Acroterion  (talk)  04:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way, you have rollback now.  Acroterion  (talk)  16:38, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Kalajan
Kalajan actually did report Kaizer13 to WP:ANI, it was just very early, he brought no evidence, and was told to retract the report when his edits came into question. <font color="black" size="2">HAZardousMATT <font color="#00ff00">toxic 16:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Peter Falk, etc.
Memories: :) Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 02:11, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Dessert bars
Thanks for your help in fixing the article on this very important subject. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:06, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Camlin Hotel
Could you please see Talk:Camlin Hotel? Thanks. - Jmabel | Talk 22:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of File:Monster Energy.jpg
A tag has been placed on File:Monster Energy.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted images or text borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on  explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. <font color="#990000">Ja <font color="#000099">Ga <font color="#000000" size="-1">talk 08:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

File:Monster Energy.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Monster Energy.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. <font color="#990000">Ja <font color="#000099">Ga <font color="#000000" size="-1">talk 16:11, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

First Church of Christ, Scientist (Anita, Iowa)
Could you check this property in the database? According to its article, it was listed in 1979, but it no longer appears at nr.nps.gov, so I'm guessing that it's been delisted. On that note, how do we find when properties are delisted? Nyttend (talk) 05:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I checked the infobox generator by property ID and its status is "DR". I don't know offhand if that means it was removed or something else, but it's no longer listed. I can't tell when it was delisted since that's not in the database. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:22, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinates issues with NRIS data
Hi. Hope ur having a great vacation somewhere. When you get a chance later, could you consider the issue noted at User talk:Wwoods, and comment there? It seems to me that some programming work by you would save this guy thousands of future edits. Thanks doncram (talk) 22:45, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll fix the infobox generator when I get back from vacation. Something is fishy with the UTM conversion. I skated past the Freedom Tower (Miami) in Miami today and I'm staying in Miami Beach, a hotbed of Art Deco architecture. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 04:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)