User talk:EllieBywater

Welcome!
Hello, EllieBywater, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! Victuallers (talk) 09:21, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
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Hello Victuallers thanks for your messgae, I am a beginner at this, and having a bit of trouble inserting images and laying them out so the text wraps - can you advise? I can seem to find anything on the help pages! EllieBywater (talk) 10:04, 31 January 2013 (UTC) Hi Ellie, I'll have a look round ... Victuallers (talk) 18:42, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Look around
I think I tidied up the formatting that you wanted and Ive added a few pointers on the talk page. You made need some help on images, do prod me again if you would like more help. Victuallers (talk) 08:28, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 14
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.


 * Leonard Blomefield (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added links pointing to Langridge, Entomological Society and Woolley


 * Clive Forster Cooper (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added links pointing to American Museum and School of Tropical Medicine

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Leonard Blomefield
Hi, great work! I see you've added some links in the new text... but quite a lot of it remains uncited, and since you obviously know your stuff and what fact came from where, could I possibly trouble you to put a few more citations in to show which paragraph came from which source? (These can be really short, like ) It would save future editors a lot of effort... All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:53, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Robert MacAndrew
Hi, I've checked your sandbox as requested - it was really all ready to go - and moved it to mainspace as Robert MacAndrew with a smart new infobox, and made the image appear (you need the image name by itself before the |). All the best - Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:43, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Possible copyright violations
Hi, I'm concerned that much of the content you've recently added here was copied directly from the museum's websites. If so, these would constitute copyright violations--at the least, such content tends to be promotional in tone. Please remove any such copied material. Accounts that violate copyright laws may be blocked. Thank you, 99.136.255.134 (talk) 13:51, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Ellie, I've removed the stuff on that page that seems to be lifted directly or closely paraphrased (more detailed reply on my page): it's a serious issue here, unfortunately. You can of course cite museum or university documents and web pages: the rules for using them are the same as for using any other sources, i.e. use your own words, and if you have to quote, keep it short and cite it fully. Generally quotations are only considered fair usage when you are reviewing something, need to give the character of a person, book, etc, and use no more than 50 words or so, fully cited (think literary critic). Books published before 1923, or things published with a free license like Wikipedia itself, can be used freely but even then we generally want to say things with the tone of an encyclopedia, so we still tend not to use great chunks of stuff even if it is free. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:32, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Photos by Hugh Cott, zoologist
I noticed while browsing the Museum of Zoology website that it has many uncatalogued photographs taken in Africa by the zoologist and camouflage expert Hugh Bamford Cott, author of Adaptive Coloration in Animals (he was at Selwyn). I'd be very interested to see some of these published with free licenses - the easiest way is for the department to post them on Flickr, ticking the CC-by-SA license box at the time of publication. Any chance? It would be really nice to use a few of them... Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:36, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

ANI notice
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 99.136.255.134 (talk) 12:47, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * That discussion is now closed, having been relocated to Contributor copyright investigations-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  14:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Copyright questions
Hi Ellie. First, thanks for taking some of your volunteer time to help improve the encyclopedia. I know out UK chapter has worked very closely with museums, and I am happy to see that a session on editing Wikipedia at the British Library may have inspired you to help.

I also know that many of the rules we have here are complicated, and there are few more complicated areas than what can be done or not done related to copyright issues. However, it appears you have some misunderstandings about what is permitted. I see some have been trying to help you understand. Some of this advice has been worded well, and some may have come across as abrasive. I'm sorry about that, and can only mention that dealing with copyright issues is a challenging task, and sometimes other volunteers can be very pointed in how they respond when they see such examples. I see that you work at a museum, so it is likely that you have interests in many subjects which need better coverage on Wikipedia, but that also means that you will be able to appreciate that we want to respect the copyrights of everyone, including museums. We have worked with many museums, many of whom have been very gracious is allowing us to use substantial amounts of text and images, but we want to be very careful to do so only when properly licensed.

As mentioned above, the concerns have been posted to our administrators notice board. That place is not known for its kind and gentle handling. I have urged the editor to relocate the request to the place that specializes in Copyright issues. The editors there have experience with copyright issues, and will not permit copyright violations to remain, but hopefully will discuss with you how we can track down the issues, and resolve them with your help, and do so politely.-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  13:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I am very confused. I was led to understand that I could include information about factual things as long as they were cited correctly, so this is what I have been doing - the references for many of the articles I have added information about directorship of the museum etc comes from a very small number of sources, mostly the archives of the zoology museum or obituaries. I have added things like 'director of the museum from xxx to xxx' or 'archives from xxx are at the zoology museum' and cited the museum website where this information can be found.  If this is not allowed, then could someone please let me know what I can do?  I had hoped that by adding this factual information about the whereabouts of archives and letters, papers, collections and so forth, this might help researchers or interested members of the public locate obscure collections.  I also did not create the University page, and the page already had a lot of information on it written by someone else when I first started to try to expand it, that had been copied from the main museum website, such as info about the Young Zoologists Club.  I feel it may be best I don't carry on with Wikipedia if I've made such a mess of things. It certainly has not been malicious - simply born of ignorance EllieBywater (talk) 17:33, 24 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Ellie. I'm sorry the Law has turned up, but I think if you read Sphilbrick's remarks above you'll see they are not unfriendly. We're all quite willing to lend a hand, as it is obvious that you have not been at all ill-intentioned, so all anyone wants to do is tidy up and make sure it doesn't happen again. You can of course use museum information but it must be in your own words as well as cited. You are very welcome to try a few bits out on my talk page for me to check before you pop them on the actual article if you like. All the best Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:00, 24 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you both for your help, I do really appreciate the advice and support. It is very embarrassing, and I was quite upset by the snarky comments. I want to get it right, as I have so much more information that could be added and I am enjoying being here. I need to work out the refs tag so I am not citing long web pages like the article on Parrington in my sandbox - That and the article on Robert MacAndrews should be OK once the refs are tidied up I hope! Will get on to it tomorrow and try and crack this. Thanks again EllieBywater (talk) 18:04, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Referencing is something that trips up many new editors. You look like you are doing fine. I make one slight change to a ref in Robert MacAndrew, but the old one wasn't wrong, it just wasn't quite as complete as it could be. I usually point out Referencing for beginners to new editors, but I think you will find little new to you there. Still, it is a good resource, so if you haven't seen it, there it is. One possible tip, some sites offer suggestions on how their material ought to be cited. I didn't see such a suggestion at this site, but it is the type of site that does offer such suggestions. For example this page has some useful information, along with the request for "attribution to the Biodiversity Heritage Library and the library that supplied the texts for digitization. You can find the information about the “Contributing Library” by looking at the item metadata as described above."

No, you do not have to worry about phrases such as 'director of the museum from xxx to xxx' or 'archives from xxx are at the zoology museum'. Those are sufficiently short that they can be used as is. However, you have, on occasion, used longer excerpts.

For example, in Robert MacAndrew you said:

... Robert concentrated on shipping and ship-owning under the name of McAndrew & Co in London. His brother, William Peter, established a trading company in Liverpool with John Cunningham, under the name of McAndrew & Cunningham.

While the source said: ... Robert concentrated on shipping and shipowning under the name of McAndrew & Co in London. His brother, William Peter, established a trading company in Liverpool with John Cunningham, under the name of McAndrew & Cunningham

That's too long. The good news is that it can be fixed rather easily. On occasion, someone remarks that there is only one way to say something. This can sometimes be a challenge, if you try to do rewrite of a single sentence, but list all the key points in the paragraph, step away, come back, then write a new paragraph about the key facts, and it will almost invariably be written differently. You still need to check, because you might have a great memory:)-- SPhilbrick (Talk)  20:13, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Another example: The article says: The MacAndrew Collection, which contains over 2,000 genera and nearly 16,000 species, was assembled from a variety of sources. Much of it he collected himself on various dredging trips in the Atlantic, Mediterranean and Gulf of Suez

While the source said: The MacAndrew Collection, which contains over 2,000 genera and nearly 16,000 species, was assembled from a variety of sources. Much of it he collected himself on various dredging trips in the N.E. Atlantic, Mediterranean and Gulf of Suez. -- SPhilbrick (Talk)  20:51, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Glad to hear it is all fixable and I have not created absolute havoc. Will fix these this week, and try and get Parrington finished, then I think we are done for the Zoology museum. Thanks so much to you both for your advice and help, and apologies again EllieBywater (talk) 09:55, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I've been through and checked/chucked/edited, so I hope everything looks OK now? Thanks EllieBywater (talk) 11:53, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Francis Rex Parrington
Hi Ellie, it looks OK and I'm glad to see it's all in your own words. I was wondering why you hadn't mentioned the obit at RSBM? I presume you have access to it where you are. Might be worth referencing, and who knows there might be some tidbits worth using too. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)


 * That's where most of the refs come from! Do you think I should make it clearer why Charig researched/published the dinosaur rather than Parrington, or is that not really relevant for Wikipedia?  Not sure how far to go EllieBywater (talk) 12:44, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I'm chiming in here a couple years late, but do you have plans to push the article to the main space? It has apparently been sitting in your sandbox for over two years, meaning it is not visible to Wiki searches or linking (although it was the first hit on a Google search!). If you're not active on Wikipedia anymore, I would be more than happy to move it to article space. All the best, --Animalparty! (talk) 19:01, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

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