User talk:Ellin Beltz/Archive 1

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I'm impressed
Saw your edit on Seth Kinman and I wanted to track down other sources about what Kinman did (or didn't) do at the wreck of the Northerner. The Northerner article is quite impressive. I love the detail. Alas, nothing new on Kinman! Do you have access to the Ferndale museum? and maybe might even be able to take photos of Kinmans buckskins? (my grammar is going - I'm so excited by the prospect). May I contact you about further Kinman questions? Keep up the good work. Smallbones (talk) 05:32, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your quick reply and kind words. For some reason Seth Kinman is my favorite article on Wikipedia.  I just ran into his photo at the Library of Congress website and said "there has to be a story behind this."  Little by little with searches on the internet and in google books a rather bizarre story emerged - he might represent the best, the worst, and the strangest aspects of the American character, all in one package.  Nevertheless, I'm afraid that I don't feel like I know the real story - if you can get an expert to look at the article, I'd be much obliged.

Specific questions:
 * what does the Clarke Museum have on Kinman in its collection, and what does the Ferndale Museum have? Were there really 3 buckskin suits? (one he was buried in, one at Clarke, one in the Seth Kinman Day video presumably at Ferndale)
 * does the handwritten manuscript at Humboldt State have any surprises in it?
 * what was his relation with the Wyiot tribe? Was he involved in the massacre?
 * did he really tour the country telling stories and fiddle playing? where, when?
 * was he really just a showman? was it all an act? (probably can't be answered completely)
 * why didn't he give a chair to US Grant, a President he'd met before?
 * had he met Lincoln while in Pekin or Tazewell County, Illinois? This is more than theoretically possible since Lincoln rode circuit there 1830s-1850s, the same time Kinman lived there, and Kinman kept hotel there as well. This in a town of maybe 1,000 people.
 * is the hotel/bar on Table Bluff still there?
 * who was his wife?

Well, I'm sure that will keep an expert busy for awhile, but I can get more questions if he'd like. Any photos, corrections, or documented text that he or you want to add to the article are of course welcomed.

BTW - I spend much of my time on Wikipedia getting photos of listings on the National Register of Historic Places, see WP:NRHP. I noticed at National Register of Historic Places listings in Humboldt County, California that there are about 6 places in Ferndale that need photos. I added your Shaw House photo there. Any chance you could get pix of the rest?

As always, Smallbones (talk) 17:14, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * PS - what happened to all the chairs? I can only locate the one in the Hayes Museum.

Shaw article
This is quite good. I messed around a bit with references - it would be better to have page numbers where possible, but the reference formats here are 10 times better than the usual. The lede should be longer. Does "portrait painter" do him justice? Is there any chance of getting more portraits - are there any more on-line? Uploading pix can be challenging because some folks watch very closely for the proper license and will delete with the smallest error. The license here would be "Public Domain because of age"

Do you know about DYK (see front page)? This would certainly make the front page if you could find the right hook. Maybe something like Did you know ... that California '49er Stephen William Shaw helped discover Humboldt Bay and introduce viniculture to Sonoma County? You have up to 5 days to put in the nomination.

DYK can be nice because 3,000+ people will look at the article, and probably make changes (half of which will be ok). The references for the facts stated in the hook have to be completely nailed down, e.g. while it seems clear to me that "introduced viniculture" is correct, maybe somebody else did it 100 years earlier, and it is not exactly in the reference. See [[T:TDYK].

BTW, when you first mention Seth Shaw, the next sentence starts with "Shaw" - which one? Is it "discover" or "rediscover" Humboldt Bay?

All in all, very nice.

Smallbones (talk) 05:43, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Go to T:TDYK in a bit
I failed miserably today trying to get my 1000th NRHP site photo - 6 more to go. check back early next week! I'm guessing you really messed up on the DYK nomination - no problem though. I'll put it in the right place, after making a few changes to the article and the hook, before going out tonight for dinner. You might not like all my changes, but I'll ask that you let them sink in for a week before changing them back. But let me run some of this down fairly quickly.
 * Do you have a source that says exactly that he made wine in Sonoma County? If not, you can't say it in your hook.
 * The camera obscura looks to me like Original Research - probably good OR, probably true, but you need to work on it before you can say it here.
 * The gallery form is a bit controversial. Yesterday I set up something similar via Commons - see the little box at the bottom of the article.  For now let's leave out the gallery.

Hope this will help.

Smallbones (talk) 23:53, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Got the DYK nomination in. Hope I didn't do too much damage to the article.  I'm off!  Smallbones (talk) 00:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Feb 22 10 am?
Please go to Template:Did you know/Queue. If I understand the system correctly, the Shaw hook will be in the DYK section on the front page on Feb 22. No guarantees. BTW, that looks like record time these days for going through the system! The NRHP pix look good. I'm sure we managed to correct the categories, but took the hardest way possible. I think I did this once before and the lesson I took away then was "well, next time will be easier!"

All the best

Smallbones (talk) 01:57, 21 February 2011 (UTC) {-}
 * feel free to use or discard this user box. To update just put the proper number after the | Smallbones (talk) 03:41, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The pictures are on National Register of Historic Places listings in Humboldt County, California

DYK for Stephen William Shaw
The DYK project (nominate) 18:02, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Congrats
Congrats on the DYK. 1,700 people (mostly Wikipedians) looked at it today and didn't make any major changes. If something obvious was left out, or if something obviously wrong was put in, it's likely that somebody would have changed it today (or perhaps within the next few days). It's likely that another 500 readers or so will show up tomorrow, check the "Page view statistics" on the article history page, near the top right. After tomorrow, I'd guess it will likely slow down to maybe 150-200 views per month (which is about 150-200 more than it had a week ago). You never know when somebody will show up with new info, which is one of the main joys of Wikipedia.

I'll definitely order the Kinman books and try to incorporate them into the article. Any more hints on what to expect? I might as well go do that now!.

Smallbones (talk) 01:04, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

A. Berding House
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of A. Berding House, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://noehill.com/humboldt/nat1983001180.asp.

It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. The article will be reviewed to determine if there are any copyright issues.

If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 08:46, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I removed the tag because all Noehill website does is copy from the National Historic Landmarks page and we have to have the address and NRIS number, and date in order to be complete about this building. Ellin Beltz (talk) 21:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Misc
As far as the bot notice immediately above - I'd ignore it - they make some obvious mistakes at times.

It looks like you're making good progress on the NRHP pictures in Humboldt County. Maybe as a long term goal you could try to fully illustrate the list? As far as the "address restricted" sites, folks tend NOT to take pictures of these, so as not to encourage looting or other damage. There's even a special image that just says "Address restricted" so as not to encourage folks to put photos there. On the other hand, if everybody already knows where Indian Island is (e.g. you just follow the Indian Island sign on the bridge) then a general picture is usually considered ok.

I got the Seth Kinman books last week and have read the "Story" and the "Scrapbook" straight through. I'm now going over them with highlighter in hand and will probably start making changes in Seth Kinman soon, but it might take a few weeks. Anybody in Ferndale who knows the material can definitely join in the editing!

All the best,

Smallbones (talk) 14:58, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

pics of historic places
Hey, thanks for taking pics and uploading them, for several National Register-listed properties in northern California! I happen to work mostly on NRHP and other historic sites articles and list-articles, and ur addition to the Pythian Castle one popped up on my watchlist. I checked and am glad to see u also adding them to the corresponding NRHP list-article. Thanks and keep up the good work! -- do ncr  am  03:12, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw your Linkedin invitation regarding Humboldt County photographs, but wonder if the questions might be covered here?Thewellman (talk) 16:37, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If you haven't tried it already, I suggest using the search function at this web site for information of interest: http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/rwqcb1/
 * I spent three decades as a field inspector for this organization in Mendocino, Humboldt and Del Norte counties observing the sawmills during the final quarter-century of old-growth timber milling and shifted to the Clean Water Grant Program community wastewater treatment facilities (including Ferndale, Rio Dell, and Arcata) as the sawmills closed. I think you will find the type of information you seek in the executive officer summary reports (or EOSRs) for Water Board regulatory actions.  The findings sections of Water Board orders often contain succinct statements of facts.  I would be happy to offer suggestions if you encounter difficulty on any specific subject.Thewellman (talk) 19:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Other sources for photographs include any of the Seely photos that survived his retirement (he was a prominent photographer of the area, based in Arcata, for many decades). Secondly there is the collection at the Helen Barnum Home site of the Historical Society in Eureka. Third, there are the Humboldt Rooms at The County Library behind the Mansion, and at the HSU Library, and Fourth, there is that living encyclopedic information and referral historian extraordinaire that is Ray Hillman of Eureka. He can point you in the right direction if he does not have something in his own extensive collection/library. Norcalal (talk) 11:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've almost finished getting all the Humboldt County National Register listed properties photographed, and yesterday moved on to Del Norte. I feel better about getting new pictures that the copyright is totally clear, than trying to get/find permission for photos where the photographer may not have died long enough ago, etc.  It avoids a lot of permission problems over at Wikimedia Commons to just get new pictures and add them. It's a lot easier for me to give a perfect geolocation if I just stood there that day, or the day previous!  Also on the historic plaques, there really is no source for them other than to slog out, find them and snap a photo. Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:44, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Nice pix
Yes, it looks like you are making progress on the Humboldt County pix. BTW, I see that you've met Doncram, who is a pretty good guy. If you ever have have a question, just ask him - he'll always have an answer! (of course there are pluses and minuses to that) And forward him your pix of Fraternal Organizations - I almost stumped him yesterday with an "O of I A"  As far as writing the Kinman article - I'm still considering several aspects of it, which might just mean a bit of writer's block. all the best! Smallbones (talk) 05:55, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Coords, Location, Museum
Easiest way to get coords is to pick the place out on google maps. right click, select "What's Here" and then copy the decimal coords off the input line.

Trim to 4 digits after the decimal point and enter the result into °N, °W

40.5784°N, -124.2636°W

now click the blue coord and look at the top of the resulting page, you should see 40° 34′ 42.24″ N, 124° 15′ 48.96″ W = same thing in degrees, minutes, and seconds

round again, and place into °N, °W

and you get

40.57833°N, -124.26361°W

Now click this blue coord, on the new page click google maps and you get

Ferndale Museum, which could easily have its own article - just get 2 references, say from a SanFrancisco newspaper. Keep it short and simple for now.

One last thing - on Commons they use

Smallbones (talk) 00:40, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

==I am confused, but I will figure it out... BTW, the Museum would be prettier in google street view if the coords were moved a few meters north and will try to use that as my practice point. Thank you for the help, I will get unconfused asap. Ellin Beltz (talk) 20:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Crocker Page
Thanks for your comments. It is nice to hear considering I am just starting to edit Wikipedia. I am looking to add people to the Sacramento Historic City Cemetery. I think that Aimée Crocker is there too with Edwin whose page I created. And I want to start taking pics to upload too. Mostly cemetery pics but who knows as time goes on. Maybe more if I like it. Noticed you upload your pics too.Toyz1988 (talk) 18:31, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for bringing that stereoscopic picture to my attention. I put it on the Crocker Art Museum article as I thought it was more suited to that article which has an architechure section.Toyz1988 (talk) 21:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Page looks good
I just moved the page to a capital M Museum. Does that fix the problem?

The article looks good - maybe a bit heavy on the seismograph, but better too much than too little at this point. Nothing on Seth (but who am I to complain!)!

All the best,

Smallbones (talk) 04:22, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Migrated
To tell you the truth I'd never moved a file from Wikipedia to Commons before, but this seemed to go fairly well. I just hit "Copy to Commons via CommonsHelper" on the Wikipedia photo page. One hang up was that Commons wanted to upload something from my computer, so I copied the Wiki photo to my computer ((there must be an easier way! - but it really wasn't that hard) One section of the Commons description looks a bit strange- so I'll wait a few days before I'll call this sucessful.

All the best.

Smallbones (talk) 22:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Sean McLaughlin (media activist & educator)
If you wish to nominate the subject article at Articles for deletion, there are three steps that must be followed. Those three steps may be found at WP:AFDHOWTO. Let me know if you need help. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 20:29, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
see, e.g. Lincoln the Lawyer

Elkman's infobox generator
please click the link
 * http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/whohas.php

enter Prairie Creek Fish Hatchery

then click "submit" and see what happens

Smallbones (talk) 03:12, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Re:
 Tide  rolls  16:21, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK
Hello! Your submission of Fusakichi Omori at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Ben  Mac  Dui  19:42, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Just back
Just returned from a 2 week road trip to Denver (Ferndale would have been a bit too far). The prose on the seismologist needs a bit more work, but the content is very good. Only 95% ?!? Smallbones (talk) 12:38, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Fusakichi Omori
The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello
I just said hello to User:Nytasi, made some copy edits on the 2 Eureka Library articles (there's an argument that they could be combined - but I don't think I'll make it). Please give User:Elkman his due when saying where the NRHP infobox generator comes from. Just back from the WP:GLAM conference in NYC, which led to Association Residence Nursing Home among other things. Do you know of any galleries, libraries, archives, museums (GLAMs) or other cultural institutions who want to take active steps to work with Wikipedia? These steps might include a) a training session for e-volunteers on how to write Wikipedia articles (perhaps run by you?) b) Putting together a list of topics that folks could work on that are of interest to the GLAM, c) making image donations, d) getting a Wikipedian-in-residence (usually an unpaid intern), or d) other.  d) might include something with the use of QR codes, which is being done at Derby Museum. A QR code is just a bigger type of bar code, that can be used by a smart-phone (with a free app) to connect directly to a Wikipedia article in the phone's preferred language. Materials costs are paper, ink, and scotch tape. I'm thinking about putting these outside for NRHP buildings and did a quick experiment with the Association Residence Nursing Home article. Europeans and most New Yorkers know what to do with the QR codes (take a photo of it with your smart phone) and the direct connection works. All the best. Smallbones (talk) 12:28, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I sent User:Elkman a thank you note on his discussion page and sit here bright pink with embarrassment that I didn't notice it was from someone else!
 * We have a lot of active museums including the Clarke Museum and Morris Graves in Eureka, the Ferndale Museum, the Scotia Logging Museum, and so on. Several of the museums in State Parks will be closed this year as the governor of California has chosen to shutter 77 state parks to "save money."  So we have suddenly lost several of our more active interns and workers as they seek employment elsewhere.  Another problem is more with the median age and computer-savvy of the adult volunteers, many of whom have not and will not ever use a computer in this life. They do great research, but it's all on paper.  I am continually seeking new Wikipedians in the younger crowd, although that is a wee difficult as this village's median age is 37-years-old.  My research helpers and I are really working hard to be sure we have every real museum and national register site up here done.  We've been doing about two pages a week since February and the NHRP Hum. Co. overview page is beginning to look "almost done."  Our parks are all finished, the highways and some of the old towns are described.  There is one woman up here with a huge pile of local photos she uses on her blog, but I have no idea of their provenance or copyright, and so far I haven't been able to receive a reply from her.  All the rest of the local history images that anyone has, even in the local books are courtesy the Palmquist Collection, which was purchased by Yale University.  I have no idea what the copyrights are on that.  The Edna Garrett images I used on the 1906 Earthquake in Ferndale page were from the original photographs stored at the Ferndale Museum, otherwise I would have had to get Palmquist's set.   Peter went around and bought every photo of the early days of Humboldt County, which was great when he was alive and sharing, but now means our entire photographic heritage is 5,000 miles away and essentially unusable to us.
 * I am 100% certain everyone out here will use those QR codes as soon as there is somewhere to just go get it printed out for your location. What about putting QR code images on the discussion pages of NHRP's so that people know where to go to get them to print out to stick to their building?  I don't have a smart or a dumb phone, so I'm way behind the curve on all the new stuff, but if it's as simple as print/trim/tape, I'd think everyone up here would do it - if only to be "modern."
 * Thank you for the edits, the welcome to Nyasi, and the suggestion for combining the two pages. I'd suggest not, as the Library is currently the home of the Morris Graves Museum.  It would be hubris to assume that the Museum is the last use for the Library or that the Library will be the only home the Museum will ever have.  They are separate entities.  One article I think could get wrapped into the Museum is Humboldt Arts Council as they are just the governing body for the Museum and have no existence beyond the Museum but I don't know what to do to combine the two. There is also another triad of articles about Gunther Island, Indian Island and Gunther_Pattern which are all the same place/same topic, and I wonder how to make them all one.
 * Again, many thanks for your continuing Grand Tut(nam)oring of a wikinewb, and hopefully we can get you a team up here. Remember there's only 3,000 in our village and only 100,000 when the university is in session, in the whole county which is 3,572.49 sq mi so we're spread thin and we don't have a lot of really important stuff up here besides the national register buildings, historical sites and natural areas. But we'll do our best to stay up with the places that do!  Ellin Beltz (talk) 16:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


 * To merge articles just put a tag on it, start a discussion on one of the talk pages saying why they should be merged, and wait a week.
 * To make a QR Code for Indian Island just go to www.qrpedia.org copy the Wikipedia url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Island_(Humboldt_Bay) into the single entry line on qrpedia. Up pops the code.


 * Save the code and print it, maybe with "Indian Island" typed underneath it. Smallbones (talk) 17:40, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


 * At the GLAM conference Yale's Chief digital asset manager explained their new program, where almost everything they control will be released under a free license (might take a while to implement). Unless the grant of the photos to Yale said they can't be released on a free license, they soon will be. Smallbones (talk) 01:02, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the Merge info, I've put tags on the three pages, and comments on all three discussion pages (Gunther Island, Indian Island and Gunther_Pattern). Again thank you for your help!!  Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:37, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Fixed AfD nomination
I fixed your AfD nomination of Tony Berg. Please keep the following in mind: I have also responded to your nomination at the AfD discussion page. &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 21:02, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You need to place the header on the top of the discussion page. This adds the header links so that editors weighing in on the article's deletion can quickly access important information. This is step 2 of WP:AFDHOWTO.
 * Surrounding the name of a Wikipedia page in curly brackets 🇦🇩 transcludes that page. In general, curly brackets should only be used with templates.

See Yale Library article
in Economist

I'll e-mail you. Smallbones (talk) 19:24, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Kinetic Sculpture Race
 Chzz  ► 01:31, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Carson Mansion
Thank you for clarifying the importance in the lead such that the significance of this extraordinary home is honored verifiably. I have a resource library at home I will check in on to clarify more detail as time and schedule allow. Incidentally, it is a pleasure to have another North Coast expert working on these articles. Back in 2006 when I started many of these articles were a shambles or start class at best. Regards, Norcalal (talk) 11:01, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm glad to be of any small service with local wiki articles! I have a small reference collection at home, but have help from the Ferndale Museum librarians and researchers on most topics of interest to locals.  Also I have a lead for you on the Carson Mansion .  He says his grandmother wrote the book on the Mansion!  Quite a coincidence... yours here and his comment there both ended up in my email inbox adjacent to each other.  Kismet!  Have a lovely vacation and wonderful to meet a fellow local Wikipedian!  Ellin Beltz (talk) 15:03, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you speak of Evelyn Shuster Worthen. If so, I have her book dating from 1984. In any case, I always want to hear more about the local authors...always! Norcalal (talk) 22:07, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

While I appreciate the addition of citations and alteration of the lead in Carson Mansion, I find your comments on the talk pages condescending and inaccurate. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 20:31, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Can't please all the people all the time!! Ellin Beltz (talk) 00:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, sounds bad
Good to hear from you and great to hear about Kinman's clothing photos. About the other - it might make things worse to have somebody intervene, but I'll keep an eye on it. Smallbones (talk) 01:48, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Houses in Humboldt County, California
Hi, please do not remove the category Category:Houses in Humboldt County, California from the articles about houses, even if they are also listed by town. The Houses category is for type of building and is to designate houses by county, while the town designation is another type of category to designate buildings by town. Thus, it is not redundant. Thanks. Jllm06 (talk) 01:56, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There are also three more categories Buildings and Structures in Eureka, California, Buildings and Structures in Arcata, California & Buildings and Structures in Ferndale, California. I am confused, we had non-houses in the house page, and houses on the Buildings pages.  My bad if they need to be in both categories.  I am sorry I wasn't clear on the concept.  Please advise, I can easily put all the houses back on a Category:Houses in Humboldt County, California later this evening.  One last question, if it's not a house but a bed and breakfast and was built as a b&b, does it qualify as a "house"?Ellin Beltz (talk) 02:02, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
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Bayshore
Anchors should not be presented in a list. Also, I am completely unable to verify that Macy's was ever at the mall. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 05:40, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you have newspaper sources for Eureka Mall, that'd be good too. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:33, 21 January 2012 (UTC)
 * So far I haven't found any sources at all for Eureka Mall which is a new page ( not the same as Bayshore Mall ). Ellin Beltz (talk) 22:33, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

re: user:Al Villarruel
I have left an "only warning" notice on this user's talk page. Threats and personal attacks are not tolerated on Wikipedia. If this user makes another threat or offensive statement against you, he can be reported to WP:AIV. Thank you. Taroaldo (talk) 23:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Ellin Beltz (talk) 23:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Arcata California and Census terminology.
Thank you Ellin for your work across many articles of the North Coast. In particular, thank you for your determination to use correct terminology as it is written by the US Census related to definitions of types of households. Wikipedia is a better source for all when opinion, politics and related agendas are not allowed to degrade the facts. Norcalal (talk) 08:14, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

So I don't lose it
14-year-old Didn't Invent Email even though he says he did on Washington Post & works for MIT. Gotta wonder how long he thinks he can keep all the balls in the air. Filing this for later. Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:05, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Carson Mansion
Yes, Ellin, you are correct. The mansion is not on the National Register for all the reasons stated in the article. It should be and would be but, alas, it is not. Good eye! Norcalal (talk) 03:06, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

SS Northerner
I've updated the infobox a touch. There is no 'ship engine' parameter in the characteristics template, so I've moved that field to 'ship propulsion'. Also, there's no 'ship masts' parameter. That's why that isn't showing up either. If you don't want the 1860 US flag to show up, go ahead and change that back. -Niceguyedc Go Huskies! 19:00, 5 March 2012 (UTC)


 * There is a way to add the masts. You can add normal table code (I'll add it to the article so you can see it). The template says it's not encouraged, as it makes the article different from the other ship articles, but maybe it's something that should be in the template. -Niceguyedc Go Huskies! 19:11, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Humboldt County, CA location maps
Hi! Actually, it's not a silly question at all. It's been a long time since I've made any location dot maps, but I still have the template that I used to make them. Anyone can do it if they feel like it, as a basic California outline map (with counties) wouldn't fall under copyright of any sort. Bumm13 (talk) 21:03, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh neat! Do you know the link to get the base map? Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:40, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Category sorting
Just a reminder that the correct defaultsort markup is, in capital letters and with a colon. — Paul A (talk) 02:07, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reminder! This can get very confusing at times. Ellin Beltz (talk) 07:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Elementary Schools and notability
Hi Ellin. You are a good one and an asset to the North Coast, for sure. I read quite a bit about the notability thing with public schools that are not secondary or special in terms of secondary sources. There is nothing special about Freshwater, unless you went there or have seen its beautiful setting! It looks like there is not much interest in developing primary schools and there has been years of arguing about this that I had no knowledge of as I have never tried to do a primary school article before. As I said, I will just beef up the District article that exists, if necessary. I am not all that invested in this one. But it does irk me that a while back this guy created hundreds of articles on places based upon a single source and junked up every county in the west. He had something like 3 different "existences" of Bucksport (a short-lived town swallowed up by Eureka long ago), for example, as he was sitting at a desk and copying out of a place names encyclopedia. In that awful battle, he tried to declare that I was into sockpuppetry and vandalism, none of which was true, and he worked with allies no less to get me thrown out of the encyclopedia altogether. I consider him evil (and I do not use that word lightly) and watch his antics from a safe distance to this day. In that matter a female editor with admin privileges, who I did not know, took him on directly and he flinched...finally. And that guy has no shame nor does he have the ability to apologize. So when I see this issue of notability, I laugh a little now...but whatever. Its fine. Norcalal (talk) 10:27, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Nice work on the 1860 massacre
There is an old, almost a primary, source at Ch. from p.296-309, especially towards the end; p. 313 for a reference to Kinman

Fairly vague, but "precisely vague" at times. Smallbones (talk) 02:03, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, excellent! I'll read through it and add what I can later! Thank you for letting me know.Ellin Beltz (talk) 02:09, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. See if you can find anything in this photo, from 1889 a few years after Kinman's death File:KinmanBar.jpg.  The chair at the left is quite odd - maybe from whalebone?  The guy at the right, on top of the bear, is likely Kinman's son.  Maybe the antlers are there too - you don't see antlers like that anymore!  Smallbones (talk) 22:44, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Certainly will keep eyes out for any of that stuff... btw, did you notice that the photo on the upper right in the frame is Kinman's studio portrait? Ellin Beltz (talk) 05:22, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Response to: Gnat swatted with elephant gun
Hi Ellin. I am actually a little saddened by this one as it may be that the editor in question has some health or developmental issues beyond immaturity that make it impossible for him to be an effective contributor to Wikipedia. That does not, however, excuse his actions, the effects they have upon others, or the consequences of those actions. I appreciate the indefinite block that has been placed upon him. Norcalal (talk) 21:45, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I had not remembered the previous matter with this editor.Wow. Thanks for reminding me. Norcalal (talk) 00:27, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Humboldt Bay Life-Saving Station
I did a few tweaks and did a review of Humboldt Bay Life-Saving Station. There is a small question about "the only." You might want to address that. Otherwise, nicely done! 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 19:29, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Ellin, You might want to put the newly inserted "Further reading" in someplace as an in line reference. Just a thought. It is generally preferred. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 20:21, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

You don't need to do this, because you haven't had your fifth DYK yet, but it might be good practice to Just being tough on you today - but it will help the guy whose hook you review, and will also help you next time you submit a DYK.
 * check Did_you_know
 * find a DYK that hasn't been reviewed yet.
 * Review it and specifically state 1) was it nominated within 5 days of creation or (minor eligibility criteria), 2) long enough ( have a minimum of 1,500 characters of prose) 3) is the hook properly cited - i.e. from the sources do you actually believe what the hook says? 4) policy considerations - no BLP problems, no verifiability problems, and a hard one - no plagiarism problems including close parallelism. How to check for copyright problems? - check the sources, maybe search for a strange phrase, use your judgement.
 * Then put in the template you created for your hook "Reviewed:XYZ Darning Needles" or similar.

All the best,

Smallbones (talk) 23:07, 14 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Don't worry - you'll get it. I looked at the Santa Barbara earthquake article and review I'll see if I can do it better in 30 minutes!.  Smallbones (talk) 02:45, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * OK - take a look now - nothing fancy - I count characters with Word - tools. Smallbones (talk) 03:25, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Great article, Ellin. I adjusted the lead to specify the actual Coast Guard Group that the station is a part of. My intention is to do work on that as article as well as for now its a redirect. I did not do a formal write up in the DYK section. The formality of that portion of the Wiki was more than I have time for at the moment. I have always wanted to do more work getting all the articles done that would remove all the "red" in the Eureka template. Thanks again for your many contributions to the North Coast. Regards, Norcalal (talk) 06:36, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

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Ciao for now
If you want to know why I am gone, you need see no more than the comment that "there isn't time" to be polite at. If admins don't need to be polite, then I'm not gifting my time to Wikipedia anymore, instead I am going to spend the time formerly given to Wikipedia on things which have meaning to me. After nearly five years of contributing, being called a "copyright violator" is just more than I can take and the way it was done wasn't right, nice or polite. So far on this project, I've received a serious death threat which ended up involving the police, hate mail and insults. So much for "Wiki Love." I have no intention of returning the non-favor and no desire to work with people who threaten my life or others who are just plain rude. Yesterday's rudeness pushed my Gone with the Wind button and right now, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Ellin Beltz 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 14:41, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll communicate by e-mail, but I do hope you keep an open mind on this. Wikipedia is an amazing place - both positive and negative. Where else could an article like Seth Kinman be published and get so many views?  BTW, I do hope you edit the "Relations with Native Americans"  section to show me my mistakes. Like everywhere else there are DBADs, and part of life is not letting the DBADs get you down.  I also see that I myself make a few mistakes, where people could think of me as a DBAD.  Nobody's perfect, we just have to go on doing the best we can, and occasionally apologizing for our mistakes. So after correcting my mistakes at Seth Kinman, please take a few days off, and then come back with renewed vigor.  And don't let the DBADs get you down!  Smallbones (talk) 14:54, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, g-mail is down - later Smallbones (talk) 17:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, one of the Commons admins seems to have used a shotgun to dispatch a flea. The problem with overkill is that is sometimes inflicts unnecessary (but foreseeable) collateral damage. I hope you will remember the good times and the worth of this project, and not let this deter you forever. You will be missed. 7&amp;6=thirteen (☎) 15:23, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Ellin, you suffered through school, work, professional, and many other tribulations and challenges to life. Albeit all of those were mandatory in a way that the Wikipedia is not! However,I believe the sting of this too shall (or can) pass. Your energy and work on the North Coast articles is invaluable and far exceeds anything I could have hoped for in a colleague herein. I hope you return. I am left bewildered as to the parameters over photos of a public plaque. I can see an issue with a private plaque or, perhaps, a plaque on private property, but I do not see the rationale behind any policy that prohibits a photo of the type of plaque located in the type of place you provided the encyclopedia. The Clampers, drunks that they are, do one good thing and this is it. I, personally, would like to see it go beyond a little-visited site on the North Coast. But who am I to question the venerable "wisdom" of Administrators? Norcalal (talk) 00:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Greetings, all. I am the Commons Administrator involved in this.  Ellin, I am very sorry that you feel threatened by my actions, or by anything that has happened to you on various WMF projects. Certainly we try hard not to bite newbies -- you and other newbies bring new viewpoints and renew the life of the organization. I was a newbie once, and I certainly know how it feels to be bitten.  Even as an old hand, I get bitten occasionally, and I don't like it much. Certainly I intended no rudeness or insult, not even a gentle slap on the wrist.


 * With that said, I think we have a misunderstanding about Deletion Requests (called AfD here on WP:EN). The laws that govern our actions on Commons are almost incomprehensible to beginners -- indeed, they are murky to many old hands. The USA copyright law changed radically, in four steps, from early in the 20th century to its end. Very few people who are new to Commons, or copyright in general, understand the laws of the various countries.  Even fewer people realize that something out in public display in many countries, including the USA, cannot be photographed for commercial purposes unless its copyright has lapsed. As a result, several hundred deletions every day are for reasons similar to this one.


 * A DR is much more common on Commons than here. At the moment there are about 680 open AfDs on WP:EN, about 70 a day, with 1,486 Administrators to handle them.  On Commons we have more than 5,000 open DRs at the moment.  About 8,000 new files are uploaded every day and about 1,300 are deleted. We are doing our best to keep ahead of this flood, but our backlog is growing. To do that work we have 268 Administrators, of whom six do half of all deletions. Twenty times the workload and one fifth of the Admins means that we do not spend much time on each action. It should not surprise anyone looking at these numbers that I said that there simply was not time to leave a personal note on the talk page of every person affected by my several hundred actions each day.


 * Lastly, if I had left a note on her talk page, what would I have said? Commons is a multilingual project.  The template notice that I did leave on her talk page can be read in 42 languages. We frequently interact with editors with whom we have no common language. If I left a note on her talk page, it would still have to refer the discussion to the DR, where the whole community can weigh in on the decision. . . Jim - Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs)  14:04, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * I suppose I should also respond to User:Norcalal's comments about this being a public plaque. While Federal works are all in the Public Domain, in the USA almost all other works are not.  There is no particular reason why the text and artwork on a public plaque should enjoy less copyright protection than a book in a public library, a painting in a public museum, or a sculpture in a public park. While some countries allow commercial photographs of such things, the USA, except for architecture, does not. For a more detailed explanation, please take a look at Commons:Freedom_of_panorama. . . Jim - Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs)  14:04, 18 April 2012 (UTC)


 * While I'm sorry that Jameslwoodward is overworked (by choice, this is all voluntary) and too overloaded to read, I'm NOT a newbie (see above) or a "copyright violator who refuses to play by Wikipedia rules" (see prior correspondence).  I think if one can't stay polite and reasonable with the other editors who are trying to share a common goal, that it says a lot about the impolite one.  I hear from my associates how they get "bitten" on Wikipedia for editing.  I have been involved for over five years now.  I was appalled at  Jameslwoodward's behavior both before and now I see a big, long, self-justifying note has been added to my usertalk page.  I don't appreciate the name calling, sir and it's the namecalling that pushed my buttons and made me leave. You are welcome to all the self-justification you can dish out and it doesn't change the fact that you decided to call names and get angry over something which could have been solved much more simply with simple businesslike or professional behavior.   Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:42, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Humboldt Bay Life-Saving Station
Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:50, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Gospel Outreach
Hi Elin,

Thanks for your comments and time spent on this article. I am glad you are interested in the fascinating story of Gospel Outreach. Just to clear up what you may have wrongly assumed, the interest I have in Radiance ministries is historic, not commercial, which is why I changed the reference and the quote to a non connected review- your original point taken. This was an effort to be compliant with your recommendations. In other words, that music is deeply bound up with the history of Gospel Outreach. BTW The religious references did not escape me. They join other what appear to be Ad hominous and unmindful comments you made on earlier edits of this article. Please correct me if that was not your intention. (Perhaps this is your way of being humorous?) This seems to not be your usual style of editing, so I find it rather puzzling. The reason I prefer to remain anonymous is that we all who are interested in fact or fiction issues, filter what we believe to be the validity of any information according to what we believe is the source. (e.g Academic or non academic) (Republican or Democrat)(Environmentalist or Developer) (Religious or  atheistic )( young, middle aged, or elderly ). In doing so we may invalidate and dismiss information that is important to the understanding of a particular subject. In addition subjects on Wikipedia are already highly referenced to articles that are the opinions of others or information that has been wrongly established as factual in the mists of time. Even scientific facts are continually changing as new research appears. As said many times before the ability of one editor to correct another is the strength of Wikipedia. Being registered and yet anonymous, seems to be one of the free choices and priveleges given to Wikipedians and as far as I am concerned usually helps readers (who bother to check editors) be more objective about what they are reading. This digital age of increased categorization of people into our own personal boxes means we miss so much. Now, can you make a suggestion? I wrote something that was inaccurate in the article that I would like to fix. A new link has appeared online that clarifies my original confusion about Gospel Outreach and Mendocino that you pointed out was wrong last year. What happens next? Should I proceed or leave the error which makes part of the article quite inaccurate? Also, thanks for changing me from red to blue. According to your suggestion, you may be glad to know that I have edited several articles on all sorts of subjects. My main interest is history although I do love butterflies. I have found that learning to edit is a process, (such as seeing how you adjusted the citations) but I am willing to go through that process as long as I am not wasting my time. The best learning happens through instructors who are empathetic. Thanks.(Benbullen) —Preceding undated comment added 15:42, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have replied to your note on your user page !! Ellin Beltz (talk) 17:31, 31 May 2012 (UTC)