User talk:Emilia Armas/sandbox

Miss Spain
What do you think about Miss Spain entering international contests? Emilia Armas (talk) 22:17, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

I think someone like Miss Spain shouldn't enter to international contests, and I think it should exist a rule that says "CONTEST JUST FOR WOMEN",it is explicit, but many people don't understand the rules of being in some international contest, and even more if you are representing you hole country. I think like that because, there are many beauty contest in which Miss Spain can participate, but a contest like the Miss Universe one, is a really big contest, which has as an objective showing women beauty, and Miss Spain, due to all her operations, she is a men, I think, she doesn't have to enter to international contest if she don't accomplish with all the requirements. Alee Muñoz (talk) 23:13, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

A contest like Miss universe is basically something that chooses a woman that is the most beautiful in all aspects from all the world. When you say that a woman is a winner you know that she is competing against other ones like her, letting someone that was born as a man is not fair for all the ones that are participating, it is okay that someone wants to be a became a woman it is okay that someone feels like a woman but it is not okay that in a contest that only woman can participate a person that wasn’t born as a woman participate. I think that being a woman is not only changing an organ or just wanting to be one, it is a lot more than that, just saying that miss España is not biologically a woman make this contest unfair, I think that there are more contest that this person can participate. Domenicaq (talk) 23:32, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion, this situation does not have any problem because it does not aim to hurt nobody, and nowadays the general view of society respects trans-sexuals and homosexuals. But the context that corresponds to this situation lets doubt about if his/her action could be an aggression or insult to the biologically accepted women for this competition, because this contest is just for that women, and the same respect that people gives to the LGBT group must be given to that women. JuanXPonce1234 (talk) 23:48, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

You should be fully informed before proceeding with an argument. As Alejandro mentioned, there is many people who do not understand the rules of international contests. First, I would like to emphasize the fact that we are talking about Miss Universe Spain 2018, hence I will copy the link of the bases of the contest down below. However, I would like you to go to the fifth section. And the seventh section point number one. In which it is clearly specified that all participants must be a woman LEGALY and MORPHOLOGICALY. Thus, it is completely fair for Angela to participate in this contests. Now, refering to the plastic surgery: there are dozens of participants who have abused of this resource, even more than Angela. If you don't believe me, listen to Gustavo González Zaldivar, an official member of the "Academia de Cirugía Plástiva y Reconstructiva": "A partir de los años 70, cuando Maritza Sayalero, de Venezuela, ganó el concurso, ya presentaba varias cirugías plásticas y, desde entonces, este fenómeno se ha incrementado sin control. Tanto, que creo que se ha caído en el exceso." Also, there is no base nor politic against this practice, so it should be accepted. Emilia Armas (talk) 23:59, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Miss Spain had a process to go through to become a woman and that doesn’t make her less a woman. Miss universe is a beauty contest which obviously measures the beauty of woman, miss Spain being a woman herself should be allowed to participate in this contest because, after all, the principal obejective of this contest is to measure beauty. Another important topic is that if she enters miss universe a lot of people can be encouraged to come out as trans, maybe if they see trans people getting recognized in such an important contest as normal, they can be confident of who they are and start living without the fear of what society may think. I also think that people should have a little of empathy towards miss Spain and reflect about how would it feel not to be accepted by who you are. When talking about this topic I think that is important to consider the bigger image, to consider of what would happen if she wins miss universe and how would that impact on our society DanielaEspinoza14 (talk) 00:04, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I personally respect the differences and variety of gender that exist in today's society, which is expressing itself in a broad way with various types of gender, however, I believe that each one of them must develop and express itself in the space that corresponds to them. The beauty contests as such have not changed according to the changes of society, however this does not cover the new decisions and makes us see that should be updated on that issue since the gender freedom that exists have not been adjusted in the tournaments of beauty. Each one must be managed by the space or area that corresponds, for example men in men's competitions, being that the contest of Miss Universe is specifically for women representing the same feminine beauty. Miss Espana, who entered the Miss Universe contest being biologically male, has already obtained several surgeries to look like a woman as well as other women who do it in the same way to look better, but Angela does not personally make her a woman at all. Women are not only differentiated by or characterized by their appearance, they are biologically born just like any other human being. As I said before, beauty contests should be already adjusted to each of the different characteristics of people, so to speak. I think that Miss Universe should not involve people who are not purely female since it is a feminine beauty contest, however new competitions can be created to open up to the different genres of the present to give the right to participate in competitions of beauty as any person deserves it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vicky.Aviles.26 (talk • contribs) 00:09, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion there is a much relevant fact we should consider, as this type of contests are used to focus only in the candidate's physical appearence, which sounds really rude and superficial to what women represent. Beauty contests can be fun and at least be given certain attention and meaning from people, but they deserve a lower importance, in which the core and emotional values that make up every woman should be taken more in account; like that, we would be able to really agree or not with the specific fact that a candidate feels like a woman and is representing what we can agree is a beautifull person mostly by her inner characteristics. Bruno Valarezo (talk) 00:14, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion, by allowing this person to participate in a contest in which they judge, is what a woman looks like, her physical appearance of a person born with the female sex but not of someone who seems to be a woman and if the problem is repetitive, I believe that the appropriate solution is that, in the future, a competition with the same concept as Miss Universe will be carried out, but with the gender in which these people are. After this participation everyone will complain that why transsexual people can not be accepted in this contest and the final is going to become a contest of another type of gender that is not what Miss Universe is judge. Emilio Yépez (talk) 00:21, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion Miss Spain should not be a contestant in Miss Universe because the rules of that competition say that only wemen can participate in these kind of events. By the other hand I think this competition should not exist because it is kind of stupid that this contests rate the physic part of a woman without considering her inner part or her feelings, the world must appreciate the humanpart of women and not their superficial face. Mateo Robayo (talk) 00:41, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Talking of international competitions "Miss Spain" can enter them with no problem, but the issue is to what extent the juries desitions or qualifications can be biased or affected by te fact she was born as a men and if she doesnt win media could treat it as a segregational or dicrimination problem affecting to the image of this beauty contests — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicasio22 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I can see, there is much debate surrounding what the meaning of woman is, and also the adaptations of the contests surrounding sexuality issues. To solve this debate is fundamental to have a clear meaning of what the character of women is. First is necessary to differentiate between sex and gender identity: Assigned sex (or sex assignment, or just sex) is whether a person was labeled male or female at birth. Gender Identity (or simply gender) is how a person feels inside: man, woman, boy, or girl. (And sometimes other identities, as well.) With this clear, we can proceed to define the concept of women, according to Mary Whiton Calkins (who was president of the American Psychological Association) a women is: "more than biology, and maybe it even goes beyond critically looking at gender as something given." Hence, according to this specialist, it goes beyond biology, and relies on essence. Thus, the change on the bases of the contests had to happen. In order to show to the humanity their power over themselves. The judges are qualified to give a clear, true feedback. As you can see in the section I mention before, everyone will be treated equal once in the contest. So, classmates, do not worry about her, worry about some intolerant thoughts that have been mentioned today and fight for the change. Emilia Armas (talk) 01:32, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I think that Miss Spain shouldn’t be on this contest, because physically it is now a woman, society and Miss Universe can accept that she is currently a woman, but however much we accept and say that she was never a man since she always felt a woman, we can not deny and erase the fact that she is biologically is a man, she was born being like that and no one can erase this, and personally I would believe that all this would be a great offense for women, I would honestly be offended that someone who is biologically male win other women being a woman, in my opinion this is very wrong and I think that should not compete Sabri Tapia8 (talk) 01:34, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I’m not agree with the participation of Angela Ponce in Miss Universe because it’s kind of unfair for all the women that are on the contest that a woman that used to be a man can beat them because she’s operated of her face and body, so she’s having an advantage among the other participants. Also that this contest is judging the physical beauty of a person that has done all of that with effort and dedication through all her life, and having a woman that came operated with no effort, it’s unfair. Rafa Rkld (talk) 01:36, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Angela Ponce is legally recognized as a woman, but he is not a woman. Just for your knowledge, men have different way of muscles and bones development, this two subjects are consider for the final punctuation to define the "Miss Spain" winner, men have a quicker development of muscles, they burn fat faser than women, their bones also have a longer process of development, which means that they (often) are taller than woman. All of this situations are points that Angela Ponce had in her favor when she participated in this contest. He has said in a lot of interviews that he has not have his period yet, which means that the hormons he is taking are not making any effect in his body. Social worldwide objectives for this century is erradicate the overpopulation in the world, this is why a lot of countrys had accepted situations as homosexuality, abortion and transexuality as legal under their constitution; this kind of contest are part of this "social order", this means that they have the unexplicit aim to promote this kind of situations. Since the gender equality has rise, "Miss Universe" has lost a lot of popularity, this opens the option of the doubt, was Angela Ponce choose as "Miss Spain" for her beauty attributes (in which he has an advantage) or for the benefit of this contest?. "Miss Universe" is a beauty contest made for women, not for transexual women, Angela Ponce by participating in the contest is irrespecting the women spaces; actually in his country are already contest for this kind of people, but he has refused to participate in them because, he feels that his essence is femenine and that in his ADN was already determinated that he was a women. All this topic has contradicted it self all along, but the thing is, you can´t be blinded by your own perspective of the things, the truth is just one, and eventhough we wish it would be different, it won´t change. I truly respect his decision, but I also consider the fact he was alowed to compit for the crown, irresponsable and male chauvinist. Camila Cevallos (talk) 01:49, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

This far on human history we’ve overcome so many hate crimes and idiotic ideals, having strong men and women who leading the fight for their and their people’s rights. Angela Ponce is just another example of how, even though one can experience negative backlash from chasing one’s dreams and believes, using your voice will always help you find people who are fighting the same battle as you are. After this woman was judged and attacked for participating in a beauty contest as a trans woman, the lgbtq+ community has risen and supported her unconditionally against all blind hate close minded people have sent her way. Why should anyone care then how she was born when she’s being judged in a beauty contest that is built upon pure looks and physical aspects of a woman? And if we’re talking physical aspects then, Angela Ponce is a complete woman in every way. Men of course, having no clue what it really means to be a woman, have asked her “what is a woman if she can’t have children of her own?” In my eyes, a woman should never be reduced to her biological abilities to procreate, cause whether you’re able to have kids or not, and even if you want them or not, that doesn’t make you any more or less than a woman. On the other hand, what does make you one, is the strength and gut you’ve got to stand up for what your self and what you believe in, no matter what anyone says, being true to who you are. That’s a true woman, that’s Angela Ponce and it’s much more than what many can say about themselves. People say they want equality, yet argue that there should be a contest only for trans woman. I reply to this with a simple question, would that help to the trans people's cause, which is and has always been, being treated as equals to everyone else?. Diversity has been a hard thing to accept on societies since the start of times, because close minded ones will always be afraid of what’s different or what’s unknown, but just as racial wars have been won, and just as gender segregation has been defeated, I believe strongly that the fight towards equality for all trans man, woman and any gender fluid individual, will be productive and in the future we will look back to this discrimination and learn from our mistakes. I’m Vale arguello (talk) 02:02, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I am completely aware of the biological differences, they are undeniable. However, (I thought this was completely clear) the importance relies on the constitution, she is a woman, according to the constitution. So as a respectful note, everyone should use the terms of she, or her as the constitution determines so. As I have noticed the several examples and the quotes haven't been understood, I will rely on logic and basic terms. As you should know, every human being has the right to self determination, something that has been agreed by the constitution of several countries. With this in mind, I would like to ask you something... If women and men are BIOLOGICALY different, should they be treated in a different way? Should they be restrained of their beliefs? Well, according to the DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS. The article 27 allows everyone to participate in cultural life of the community (Miss Universe falls in this category). My dear classmates, the constitution recognizes this, and as you might already know THE CONSTITUTION MARKS OUR SOCIETY, NOT OUR BIOLOGY. Emilia Armas (talk) 02:33, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I personally think that the fact that LGBTQ people are each day more present in the cotidian world can not be changed, as they win impact in many fields of the cotidian life of our world it was only a matter od time for they reach the beauty contests field and win it. Even I think that this case in particular of Miss Spain is a huge step in order to complete this process of LGBTQ people get completely in our world situations with out discrimination, I completely understand the position of people specialy inside this field about the theme becuase this is a huge change in the idea of women contest. Finally I would want to say that it is matter of time for this cases continue appering and with the pass of time people would accept that LGBTQ people come to stay in our world routines. SantiagoCast (talk) 02:42, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

The reason why nations have accepted homosexuality, abortion and transexuality is overpopulation? I don’t think any trustworthy, non-biased source will give you that information, because it isn’t true. The reason why this situations have been accepted is because it’s in our human rights to be able to decide who we are, who we love and what we do with our bodies as long as we don’t affect anyone negatively. People have fought for decades to be able to be true to themselves, and before making the mistake of reducing this battle to an strategy to deal with overpopulation we should open purselves up to understand what it truly is the aim of the lgbtq+ community Vale arguello (talk) 02:50, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

In my opinion, nowadays the society has accepted different types of sexualities and sexual preferences which has given the opportunity to LGBTQR members to express themselves and to be taken in account in different areas. But I think that this contest is only for women that where born women and have the physical characteristics of a women, and there exist other contests for persons with this sexual preferences. I totally respect her and understand she had to pass by a lot of problems and bad situations in her life. Alejandro Alcoser (talk) 03:10, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

I think that Miss Spain shouldn’t participate in international contests, even in the national contest he won. First of all because the contest is destinated just for women, not for transgender people, and that is why there exits other contests in which he can participate with his condition. When participating in this type of contests he has lots of advantage compared to other women because he have had esthetic processes, surgeries and hormonal treatments in which practically he controls her body and face, and forces himself to be beautiful. Also because he is biologically a man, his development of muscles is faster and is easier for him to get a fit body, things that women have to struggle by doing a lot of work out, going through different alimentation processes, body and face treatments and making a lot of effort, things that Miss Spain obtained simply and with no effort. I also consider it unfair that a man that goes trough a vaginoplasty, and has hormonal treatments pretends to be a women when biologically he would always be a man. And the contest is just for women, not for men. So in conclusion I think Miss Spain shouldn’t participate in international contests because naturally he is not a women, he is a man, and second he has lots of advantages compared to women, so it is unfair. Emiliana.Arcos (talk) 03:29, 24 October 2018 (UTC)