User talk:EncyclopediaBob

Welcome!
Thank you for the welcome! — EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  18:12, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Notification
Hipocrite (talk) 09:21, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Canvassing
It appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on a biased choice of users' talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. Thank you.


 * I assume you're referring to this single comment on User:DHeyward's talk page which I left specifically because he showed an interest in WP:BLPTALK policy. Additionally, I wonder how it would be logically possible to notify a single user in a partisan (or non-partisan) manner, unless you're suggesting all discussion notifications must now come in pairs. I'd caution you to examine future situations more carefully before making accusations. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  09:47, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Perhaps don't canvass people. Hipocrite (talk) 13:52, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's the lamest accusation of canvassing ever. It didn't meet a single one of the canvassing criteria.  Singular user, it was friendly, no POV in the message (I honestly thought he was telling policy had changed), not excessive and I have no idea what EBs view of the topic is.  Lamest warning ever, User:Hipocrite.  Perhaps you should stop templating editors?  --DHeyward (talk) 14:20, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

ARBCOM Clarification Request Party Notice
You are involved in a recently-filed request for clarification or amendment from the Arbitration Committee. Please review the request at Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Arbitration guide may be of use.

Thanks,  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 02:11, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Your summary in the filing is balanced and comprehensive and appears to be the result of significant effort. I hope this will result in a decisive resolution of both BLP and BLPTALK policy. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)

Arbitration clarification request archived
Hi EncyclopediaBob, I've closed and archived this arbitration clarification request that you are listed as a party to to the Editing of Biographies of Living Persons case talk page. For the Arbitration Committee, --L235 (t / c / ping in reply ) 17:58, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

NorthBySouthBaranof
I just got back on Wiki and noticed your post to NBSB here, while you say a single incident isn't worth the AE filing, he also made this edit to Mark Bernstein's talk page which would also be a violation. I was considering doing an AE filing, but time on wiki is not something I have much of, particularly if I have to learn AE format. --Kyohyi (talk) 19:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I understand your concern. While the talk page edit shows a continued involvement in the topic area, which is disappointing, I'm primarily concerned with the integrity of article space. My aim in any AE filing would be to minimize disruption to the encyclopedia and promote constructive editing — sometimes that's are best achieved by sanctioning unproductive editors, sometimes, as I believe in this case, a simple warning without all the sturm und drang of an AE case will more effective. That's my opinion at least. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  20:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * My only concern is that a good indicator of future behavior is past behavior. And when editors do not honor the restrictions placed on them by the community/arbcom, they demonstrate contempt for the project, which includes integrity for article space.  This comes from the mentality that you are not wrong and that the project is wrong.  --Kyohyi (talk) 20:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * That's a reasonable concern. My advice would be to give them rope: if they don't use it great, everyone wins, if they do, it will make the hanging easier. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  20:30, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Canvassing
You've been warned about violating WP:CANVASS, I suggest you stop now. . Dreadstar ☥   08:42, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems we also differ in our interpretation of WP:INVOLVED —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  08:50, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * How so? And what does it have to do with WP:CANVASS?  Dreadstar  ☥   08:58, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd be curious to hear how you think Dreadstar is involved (and where an editor with six weeks' experience acquired such an intimate familiarity with policy), but I'm not involved by any stretch of the imagination and I completely endorse his warning. By repeatedly advocating for the inclusion of a source that that has been rejected and which contains content grossly unsuitable for an encyclopaedia, and canvassing in support of that campaign, you are rapidly heading for sanctions. If you carry on the way you're going, you're very likely to end up blocked or topic-banned. HJ Mitchell  &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  11:35, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * His warning was reasonable, however: (a) I hope your choice of tense doesn't suggest you feel Hipocrite's was (b) I'd expect an administrator, about whom the offending comment was made in a discussion in which he'd participated to avoid issuing it regardless of merit.


 * I have not "repeatedly" advocated for the inclusion of any source. Note my initial, unanswered inquiries regarding misapplication of BLP policy all dealt with hypotheticals; I heeded the advice of more senior editors in those threads and seized on a specific instance when it presented itself, in order to address the larger question. I don't care whether this source is included I care whether policy permits the inclusion of similar sources. If I cant pose that question hypothetically and risk sanction by posing it specifically, how do you suggest I proceed? I intend to pursue community consensus regarding the actions of this handful of administrators to the extent policy allows, so please clarify: by "carry on the way you're going" are you're referring to this single instance of WP:CANVASSING a single editor or is there some other action I've taken you can reasonably identify as improper? If so please let me know so I can avoid repeating it as well. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  01:59, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Blocked
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for violating this site's policy on alternate accounts. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice:. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. MastCell Talk 17:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This is obviously an alternate account created to promote a point of view and to pursue wiki-litigation in a highly contentious topic area, and thus violates the letter and spirit of our policies on alternate account use. MastCell Talk 17:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Ryk72
NB: Apologies to for this interruption on their talk page, and to the wider community if this statement is out of process.

To Admins reviewing the unblock request above:

I have interacted with EncyclopediaBob on a number of occasions, primarily in regard to our seeking clarity on the purpose, intent & application of WP:BLP to Article Talk pages (as at WP:BLPTALK. At all times, I have found EncyclopediaBob's approach to be civil, collegial, collaborative and both seeking of & capable of conforming to community consensus.

While EncyclopediaBob has certainly participated in some contentious areas, I do not believe that there is sufficient evidence of any disruption in those areas to warrant a block or topic ban on those grounds.

Nor do I believe that there is sufficient evidence that this account is in breach of WP:SOCK; and in any case, the policy aligned response would to open an WP:SPI, not block unilaterally. With respect to, I believe that we should be relying on more than an opinion on what is "obvious" before preventing editors from contributing to the project.

I believe that given sufficient WP:ROPE, EncyclopediaBob will spread their wings, and their editing pattern, beyond the current scope, and prove to be an asset to the Wikipedia project. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 22:06, 19 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the compliments and your endorsement. And in case I'm unable to offer it later: thank you for your contributions to BLPTALK. I doubt we'd have achieved any resolution without your thoughtful arguments and persistence. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  23:00, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Declined Block Review
I intend to appeal this review. Can you clarify which "obscure nuance" you're referring to so I can best respond? —EncyclopediaBob  (talk)  16:19, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The application or misapplication of policy regarding BLPTALK. PhilKnight (talk) 16:22, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the prompt response. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  16:23, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Second block appeal
Can you tell me the status of my unblock appeal? —EncyclopediaBob  (talk)  15:37, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm disappointed that after what appeared to be sincere investigation you handed my case to u|Salvidrim!, part of the same group of editors who blocked then reviewed my block - and blocked this guy then reviewed his blocks. Genuinely disappointed, but I won't bother you again. —EncyclopediaBob  (talk)  04:56, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the close of my AE filing
Please indulge me one final question as I believe there was some ambiguity in my presentation of evidence.

To review: NBSB commented on the request for clarification regarding campus rape and Gamergate discretionary sanctions. At the time of his comment, four arbitrators had responded, all four indicating campus rape fell within the scope of DS:

Noting this, NBSB encouraged the arbitrators to acknowledge they had a "made a mistake" with respect to the scope of DS.

Almost a day after these comments, NBSB made four edits I submitted in evidence, by which time four additional arbitrators had commented on the clarification request:

Diffs of NBSBs edits submitted in evidence:
 * 1) 3/12/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape
 * 2) 3/12/15 The policing of women's sexuality and feminism
 * 3) 3/12/15 Regarding accusations of campus rape
 * 4) 3/12/15 Regarding conflict between "conservative white men" and "feminists" (note removed text)

Two of these diffs (#2 and #4, concerning feminism) are so clearly covered by the DS the question wasn't even raised. The remaining two, concerning campus rape, had been asked and answered in the affirmative by eight of eight arbitrators before the first edit.

In your close you characterize NBSB's actions as "a good-faith misunderstanding." I ask: given the specificity of the question, the unambiguous responses, his acknowledgement of those responses and the unanimous agreement of the commenting arbitrators, where do you see the bases for NBSB's good-faith misunderstanding? —EncyclopediaBob  (talk)  19:26, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Unasked for advice
Reading your talk page arguments, Bob, I do not think it is likely you will get your block lifted. You are still arguing about NBSB's case and the validity and support for your point of view on BLP which is not at all what the block was about. I recommend reading and following Guide to appealing blocks which offers some sound advice about the kind of response that reviewing admins are looking for.

I think you are mistaken that this block has anything to do with your understanding of policy or your POV. It's the fact that a relatively new account, which dives into policy and noticeboard disputes, rather than working on content and articles, raises suspicions. Normally, these issues about governance, guidelines and imposing disciplinary measures are NOT places where new editors ordinarily try to make their mark, in fact, it is often the last place where contributing editors want to spend their time. I'm not saying that you can't make a contribution in these areas but for a new account to file a request for enforcement at AE, well, it is an enormous red flag which will cause editors and admins alike to wonder who you are. This editing behavior, for an edit count with ~200 edits and only 12 of them to articles, was an invitation to be scrutinized.

I think it would help a lot if you indicated other areas of the project you would like to work on besides these administrative fields. Liz Read! Talk! 00:46, 20 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It's difficult to determine what this block was about. The various messages from the blocking administrator suggest many reasons: this is an "alternate account", I've "promote[d] a point of view", I've "pursue[d] wiki-litigation" and I've "probably also violate[d] relevant topic-area sanctions." I thought it best to summarize my contributions since I began and let the reviewing administrator judge what's relevant or sanctionable.


 * I'll glady address your specific points however:


 * 1) Regarding the AE filing: as an editor and reader of several months I suggest it would be more surprising if I weren't familiar with AE requests. I followed the case when it was still in arbitration and I've read every related AE filing since then. I don't see why that should be an enormous flag. I think many active editors underestimate the number of readers who follow the goings on here without ever editing or registering.
 * 2) Regarding that my first posts concerned policy: As I said I'd followed the case for some time. And while reasoned debate on the talk pages seems like the logical choice (and you've made some valid contributions there) I saw posts from new editors consistently ignored. I also saw the redaction of sources and the hesitancy to post sources, for fear of sanction, as a large obstacle to reasoned debate. Attempting to resolve that is how I felt I could best contribute.
 * 3) Regarding other areas of interest: I'm still deciding whether to contribute at all, outside this space. I've seen policy and procedure navigated or ignored to make this particular article inaccurate. No system is perfect and inaccuracy in the short term is forgivable, but if that inaccuracy persists in the long term, which I'm waiting to see, I can't support this project in good conscience. Gamergate is not significant; confirmation that wikipedia has a resilient process that results in accurate articles is critical.  —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  04:17, 20 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Ignore the concern trolling from, she has a history of casting WP:ASPERSIONS on editors with whom she doesn't agree with on matters. Let's face it: there are plenty of longstanding dynamic IP editors and previous IP editors deciding to create an account who had extensive knowledge of Wikipedia beforehand. The fact that new wiki accounts know wiki policy alone shouldn't be a bannable offense; if anything, it ought to be encouraged for new accounts to actually know the rules and features of this site.
 * The block against you seems inappropriate to me since the admins agreed that your case was technically correct so nobody can say that you were simply stirring up pointless debate and trouble, and therefore if any block should have been made it should have happened after the case was done being evaluated. 72.92.42.4 (talk) 15:10, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * You make some valid points, EBob. But there is a bit of a contradiction between saying you can't support this project and yet continuing to try to get your block lifted or changed to a block of a finite period of time. While your faith might be shaken, I think you still want to make a contribution here and I wish you luck.
 * I'd reply to you, 72.92.42.4, if you had chosen to log into your regular account instead of a throw-away IP account. That automatically makes your drive-by remarks carry less weight since you won't even associate your words with your own account. Liz  Read! Talk! 23:24, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I never said I can't support the project. I said if policy and procedure can't correct inaccuracies in the long term then I can't support the project. I'm waiting to see if they can and I'm doing what I can by policy, including appealing my block, to facilitate that. I don't see a contradiction there.
 * But I don't see what relevance this has to my appeal - I assume the charge of sockpuppetry is based on existing edits. —EncyclopediaBob   (talk)  16:00, 27 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I find it hard to believe that you lack so much self-awareness that you would cast WP:ASPERSIONS against me after I *just* pointed out that you have a history of casting WP:ASPERSIONS on editors with whom you disagree with on matters. If you actually feel that I socking and this really isn't about continuing your penchant for aspersions and passive-aggression, by all means prove it and open up a case against me. As previously mentioned, most Wikipedia contributors don't have accounts, and so you should remember that users like you with accounts are actually a minority here. If you feel that even primary-source citations are somehow "less true" simply because they are used by someone without an account, you either have a lot of deleting to do in this encyclopedia, or you simply aren't a good fit for this project. 72.92.42.4 (talk) 18:45, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Question for HJ Mitchell
I'm pinging you for advice on requesting a block review now that my review's been declined twice. Particularly if there's a venue where dialogue with administrators would be possible. I've tried to address the concerns specified in my block notice and declined reviews, which I feel I have sufficiently, but there appear to be unaddressed or unspecified concerns and I'd like the opportunity to discuss them. If this were a limited block I'd swallow my pride and wait it out but this indefinite block leaves me no option. It's particularly difficult to accept that, as Ryk72 points out above, the evidence seems insufficient to warrant a WP:SPI (which I would not object to) yet sufficient to block me indefinitely. Is that common? I've followed your actions in the Gamergate space and your enforcement seem reasonably fair and nonpartisan. I apologize if this is not proper procedure but I'm unable to post to the help desk or any noticeboards. Thanks. —EncyclopediaBob  (talk)  14:11, 22 March 2015 (UTC)