User talk:Enigmaman/Archives/2008/July

User page
Thanks for the revert. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 22:51, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Protection
Done for two weeks. I have also sent an abuse report to Southwestern Bell Internet about this. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 23:39, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * They are on a dial-up. All they do is hang up, redial and get a new IP. It happens every so often. The sad thing is they never seem to figure out that there is only one of them and lots of us with rollback tools. They seem to think that they are the first people to have ever thought of doing what they do. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 23:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Hessam hessamyan
Hihi, I was looking at this one, it's been deleted speedy 3 times, mind if I dump the speedy and take it to AfD for salting? LegoTech &middot;(t)&middot;(c) 04:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure, go ahead, although I'm not sure why it should have to go to AfD in order to be salted. If it's been deleted three times, then it should be deleted and salted straight off.  Enigma  message 04:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * heh, actually the AfD lasted all of 30 seconds before Stormie saw it and speedied and protected....sometimes it's difficult to explain to an admin whats going on in just the CSD thingy :) LegoTech &middot;(t)&middot;(c) 05:23, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Genre delimeters
I am restoring this page to how it were before some Ip users change, with some cosusions to make both those who whaned prog death and commas in the page. These user changed the page without consenus, therefore I see fit to revert these edits. While I did go overboard, I wish to make an effort so we don't go though a very messy edit war. Johan Rachmaninov (talk) 07:17, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:Two things
Thanks for the explination and the fix. Opposing my own rfa would be embarressing (though if i recall correctly, I "excepted" one of my two earlier rfas until someone suggested it may be better to "accept"). TomStar81 (Talk) 07:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

If you're still awake...
Scarian Call me Pat!  09:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Basically there's consensus against adding in alternative rock on the article talk page; that guy just doesn't get it. I'll be home in about 6 or 7 hours. I hate flying so much. See you soon. Thanks for the revert, by the way. Scarian  Call me Pat!  12:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Political hip hop (2nd nomination)
I'd take a closer look =o &mdash; Maggot Syn 11:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Block request
Sorry to take so long to respond, I jumped in the shower and grabbed a bite to eat (no, not at the same time...yum, soap). As for blocking 70.240.131.121, he stopped vandalizing after his final warning and hasn't vandalized in an hour, so blocking him now would be punitive not preventative, so I'll decline to block, but I'll keep an eye on him. Thanks for the heads up. Useight (talk) 18:08, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_July_2
That CFD is now closed. I actually conflicted with Acalamari closing it, so it looked weird and I undid my edit. Either way, it's closed. Thanks for the heads up. Useight (talk) 22:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Celona
Yeah, I really wish I'd known about Tommypowell, say, eight months ago. Would've saved a lot of time for a lot of people. Oh well - I'm just glad to have this coming to an end (I'm inclined to agree that the first admin to review that will pull the trigger on an indef-block; I don't see how they could do otherwise). Sarcasticidealist (talk) 04:54, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll close it once an admin does the block. No point in enumerating fetal chickens. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 05:07, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
I didn't think the sock would openly come to my page. I'm seeking confirmation via RfCU and subsequent IP range block. My fan club is bigger than yours. ;) - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  05:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know about that one.  Enigma  message 05:32, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wanna swap horror stories offline? Without naming names, of course. That would only terrify you all the more ;) - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  05:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I always welcome a few good stories. I actually had to get my userpage and talk page protected due to a few recurring trolls, most notably User:Seancarlin84 and his cavalcade of disruptive socks.  Enigma  message 05:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank You

 * Whoa! I didn't know I'd get these! I'm going to have to do a few more articles now! :D  Enigma  message 18:03, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * My spelling sucks, so this is my way of thanking those who endovear to cleanup the mess. This is for that area thats grater than a simple thank you but less than the copyediters barnstar. I find it helps keep people around to correct my sp&g. TomStar81 (Talk) 20:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

AN block
I'll take a look into it right now. And feel free to bug me any time. Useight (talk) 19:51, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * After giving the matter due consideration, I found his persistent disruptive behavior to warrant an indef block and did so per Requests for comment/John celona and Administrators' noticeboard. Useight (talk) 20:33, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Odd stuff
Thanks for the links to those two pages, I added them to User:Useight/Fun. Useight (talk) 06:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Friendly IP
If it's OK I think that I'll leave it unprotected for the next 24 hours. The IP really likes my talk page and I'd much rather they were hitting it than hitting a brand new user at random, who then couldn't reply to me because my page was protected. I'm off tomorrow, 16:00 MST (22:00 UTC), for a week anyway so it's not a problem for me and I'll do them all before I go. It'll probably need to be user pages as well. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 00:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:WPTO Newsletter
StormBot (talk) 13:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Pat has been notofied
The calvary horn has been blown. I am disappointed in you :D. No civilty warnings no 3RR warnings, no sockpuppetry warnings... are you getting soft and lovable? :D Libs (talk) 05:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * What, warnings here? C'mon, you know me better than that. I just warned Niftey for 3RR in his ongoing edit war with Shoplifter at Poison (band), though.  Enigma  message 05:22, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Proposed early closure of Bring em on‎ AfD
User:Blueboy96 early-closed Articles for deletion/Bring em on‎ on your recommendation. As I said on his talk page, I don't think an early close wasn't warranted. I understand these things are judgment calls, but in this case, the "safe" thing to do would be to let the AfD run its course. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail)  21:29, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that an early close was warranted. ;) Anyway, I was just bringing it to his attention because I noticed it was a clear SNOW candidate.  Enigma  message 14:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:HAU, Status, and you!
As you may know, the StatusBot responsible for maintaining the status of the Highly Active Users was taken offline. We now have a replacement in the Qui status system. This semi-automatic system will allow you to easily update your status page found at Special:Mypage/Status which the HAU page code is now designed to read from. If you are already using Qui (or a compatible system) - great! - no action is needed (other than remembering to update your status as necessary). If not, consider installing Qui. You can also manually update this status by changing the page text to online, offline, or busy. While it is not mandatory, the nature of HAU is that people are often seeking a quick answer from someone who is online and keeping our statuses up-to-date will assist with this. Note if you were previously using your /Status page as something other than a one-word status indicator, your HAU entry may have been set to "status=n" to correct display issues. Please clear this parameter if you change things to be "HAU compatible". Further questions can be raised at WT:HAU. This message was delivered by xenobot  22:53, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

so lucky you're on vacation
otherwise I'd very likely have taken you up on the offer of moving help. :) Hope you're having a wonderful trip. I think I have paint between every eyelash and on every hair and nail and. But I'm in. Almost! TCari My travels 01:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe next time! Check out those pictures later if you get a chance.  Enigma  message 14:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Reyes Point
mm I see an addition to your to-do list, if you're interested in writing on places :) Not too interested in the All Star game this year, it's more theater than baseball IMO. I wish I were on vacation right now, seems as if everyone else is. TCari My travels 19:21, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Seems the name is actually Point Reyes. Oopsie. I climbed the equivalent of 30 stories there and still mixed up the name!  Enigma  message 00:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks gorgeous! I've been to the Bay area, but never there that I remember. TCari My travels 02:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Not sure I can be of much help there.  Enigma  message 05:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Dumpster muffins
Very odd. I've warned (and, per policy, will treat a removal of the warning as a confirmation that it's been read and understood) and watchlisted the talk page. I think that's sufficient for now; we'll see how the user reacts. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 05:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I reviewed the page history and his contributions. His mainspace contributions appear to be generally productive (though he has some proclivity towards edit-warring), which suggests to me that he may be a good-faith user whose current talk page behaviour is his idea of a joke.  I'm hoping this is the case, and that my warning convinces him that it's not an appropriate joke.  If not, I have a block button. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 05:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles Needing Copy Edit
Hey, glad to see your support at our project proposal! We have just created a project page; see you there! - Samuel  Tan  05:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Done.  Enigma  message 05:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Oops! Your name wasn't updating on the participants list cos of a silly coding error. (No wonder I thought no one had signed up... gosh...) Fixed now! See you there. :) - Samuel  Tan  07:03, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

My RFA
It should pass. I have been a registered user for 7.5 months and have made over 1800 total edits. My last RFA was 4 months ago. Anyway, how did I not format my request correctly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballfan190 (talk • contribs)

Re:stop removing tags
dear that articles were incomplete that's why I have deleted that tags, If I am not allowed to do that I won't do it again, sorry for inconvenience.

Regards,

--Mangrio (talk) 06:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Ghulam Muhammad Khan Mahar
According to the article, he was a member of the National Legislature and thus incontestably notable. -I assume you didnt notice that part. I therefore removed the speedy tag you had placedDGG (talk) 08:40, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Given the state the article was in when I tagged it, yes, I must've missed it.  Enigma  message 12:03, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:deletion
I didn't know that about tags, so someone has deleted that articles and I recreated again that. now I know about above tag, but you are still deleting, then how can satisfy that these people are famous here in Sindh.

--Mangrio (talk) 12:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Boigny
Hi Enigmaman. Thank you for proofreading Mr. Boigny's article--it is greatly appreciated. You don't have to stop due to edit conflicts--we're looking for a FA (or at least GA, at its current state) ASAP, and we need more users like you. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 00:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I worked with Biruitorul on Barthelemy Boganda for FA a few months ago. After it passed FAC, he mentioned that he planned on translating on the French Wikipedia FA versions of Houphouët-Boigny‎ and Léon M'ba. Editorofthewiki began translating Houphouët-Boigny‎ in May, but stopped shortly thereafter (the article at this point was 20KB long). I asked Biruitorul if he was interested in translating and EOTW if he was going to keep translating. Both editors decided to continue translation, and I volunteered to join them. Much to my surprise, we finished the complete translation in six days (a fourth person, Aldux, also collaborated with us). That's the long-winded story of how this collaboration came about. :) Nishkid64 (Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:06, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation. I was just curious. I found it via User:Keeper76's talk, and I was surprised to see no recent discussion on the talk of an article that has aspirations!  Enigma  message 01:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Pig Empire
I'm not going to push this anymore, but I think it's pretty clear from Eusebeus comment that he was agreeing with Rossami on it's significance, but coming to a different conclusion (that should be deleted). As such, a withdrawal is not valid as withdrawals are only done if there are no delete votes. I am not sure why this raised so much fuss. Leaving the tag on the redirect and letting it run for a day is hardly a hardship for the editors. And it is a much better idea than trying to shut down someones opinion. -- JLaTondre (talk) 01:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I disagree on both points. Either way, thank you for not persisting.  Enigma  message 01:41, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Both points? I'm not sure what the second point is, but if it's about withdrawals when there has been a deletion opinion, that's part of the deletion guidelines. Once someone has said delete, their opinion is just as valid as the nominators and the nominator's change of mind doesn't invalidate their opinion. -- JLaTondre (talk) 01:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * As for Eusebeus, have you tried contacting him and asking his opinion on the dispute and the new proposal? I think that would resolve it to everyone's satisfaction.  Enigma  message 01:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, it would have. But that should have been done by those seeking to close it. The only thing he highlighted was delete & his edit summary was "del". It should have been interpreted as a delete instead of reading into it. -- JLaTondre (talk) 01:49, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that instead of arguing about what someone else meant, the best way to resolve it is to get it straight from the horse's mouth. It also reduces the drama and tension.  Enigma  message 01:52, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing over what he meant. I'm suggesting that his opinion should have been taken at face value. Those that wanted to read "or re-target" into his words should have been the ones to ask for clarification. That is the proper path to reducing drama and tension. We don't reduce drama and tension by assuming someone agrees with us when they haven't stated the words that are being assumed. -- JLaTondre (talk) 01:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that the burden was more on them than on you, but it was an easy way out, and as a participant in the conflict, you should have asked him yourself to comment on it. A lot of unnecessary heat could have been avoided.  Enigma  message 01:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Point taken. Though I'd suggest you make the same point to the other side. -- JLaTondre (talk) 02:05, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I will do so. Both sides could have behaved a little better here, and I'm glad that it is now resolved.  Enigma  message 02:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Found it
Patrolling new pages :-) Frank  |  talk  02:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, what is this following up on? I can't recall any discussion. Please remind me. Either way, good to have another set of hands at Special:Newpages  Enigma  message 02:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * This (Was trying to be discreet in case others were stalking, which is likely...) Frank  |  talk  02:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you and User:Adolphus79 pretty much suck. What can I say? I guess I should've known to close that loophole by also specifying Newpages as well. You fiendish devil, you!  Enigma  message 02:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, it wasn't really a loophole in my case. I wasn't looking for it...it just showed up and I investigated; it led me to familiar territory. Frank  |  talk  02:29, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * So basically, you saw it on Newpages and investigated by looking at my contributions? That's what I'm getting from this, anyway. :P  Enigma  message 02:32, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Close. I saw it on recent changes as a new page and said "this has to be a CSD" without even looking at its author. Then when I clicked the page itself, I understood what was going on. In retrospect, since we've had little or no direct interaction, you probably could not have had any clue what I was referring to. Frank  |  talk  02:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly. And as Keeper would say, That's probably a good thing that you haven't seen one of those, or know where to find one.  Enigma  message 02:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

User talk:The Evil Spartan/Can't sleep, clown will eat me
This is not a G8 deletion as it's not an article. As noted in my speedy decline, I'd suggest you talk to The Evil Spartan if you want it deleted. I originally deleted the User page under U1 but if he wants the talk gone that needs a tag too. Pedro : Chat  10:28, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Kind of silly to keep just the talk, but I went ahead and asked him.  Enigma  message 15:32, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I know, but if you look at the G8 template this specifically is not covered. I know it seems a bit like process wonkery, but given it's a long standing editors user space I'd prefer we did it strictly by the book. Pedro : Chat  20:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Deleted now. He tagged it for deletion. There was a redirect to it too; hopefully that was deleted as well. Seems to be, from looking at what links here.  Enigma  message 04:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

??
Huh? This user hasn't been blocked (and you couldn't block him if you wanted to.  His block log is clean.  Wrong template?   Keeper    76  19:40, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait, scratch that. The user is blocked.  Enigma  message 19:45, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * There are two accounts User:TheWikiArtifact is indef blocked as a sock of User talk:WikiArtifact, which is where you posted the "block" template incorrectly. The log says the latter account isn't blocked.  I replaced your block template with a final final final warning.  Sorry for the confusion, you didn't do anything wrong, its confusing as hell.   Keeper    76  19:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I added the block template to the latter account after a block message came up on my watchlist. Seems to me they are blocked. From the sounds of it, this account is on the fast track for an indef block anyway. I suppose it doesn't matter so much whether it's actually blocked. It just postpones the inevitable.  Enigma  message 19:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, good Lord, Eman, you are so right, and I'm so wrong. I looked at the user log, not the block log.  forehead smack for keeper, going there now to undo my undo of your edit.  Good gravy keeper, go back to what you're good at, which is not blocking.   Keeper    76  19:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey, keep your chin up. I screwed it up, too. I forgot to add the time to the block, so it ended up as a generic message.  Enigma  message 20:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * FWIW, this exchange (which I just saw) makes me feel a lot better about my own cluelessness. --barneca (talk) 21:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you.
I appear to be having a very rough time, and can use all the help I can get. hTis intertube stuff iz hard. --barneca (talk) 20:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * LOL. You just made me laugh. Congratulations. I love those messages. Anyway, I was about to fix the name thing for you Artefact -> Artifact, but you beat me to it!
 * All this is almost as entertaining as last night. If this happens again, should I sign for you and just use the unsigned template? Some people are touchy about other people actually signing their posts. :)  Enigma  message 20:06, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was trying to deal with adding that note and something in the real world at the same time, and that doesn't work. I completely missed Mandarax's note that there were two accounts, so the sockpuppetry thing confused me.
 * re: signatures: By all means, feel free. I turned off sinebot because it kept signing my name in places I didn't want, but if you actually see me mess it up, yes, please clean up after me. --barneca (talk) 20:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks!
Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my talk page... I imagine those comments would have caused me much grief if I hadn't found out what was going on. Again, thanks! D a R kA g E 7 [Talk] 02:27, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem. :) Glad to be of help.  Enigma  message 04:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

IP edits
IDK?  RC-0722 361.0/ 1  04:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * k  Enigma  message 04:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

It's better not to edit other people's userspace
Perhaps you missed that User:Giano/A fool's guide to writing a featured article is in userspace? Please don't edit such pages unless the user asks you to. However well you mean, the user will in my experience rarely be grateful. For references to defunct pages etc, I'd suggest a note to the author. Regards, Bishonen | talk 20:46, 26 July 2008 (UTC)


 * My bad, I suppose. What I saw was this edit, so I thought it was ok to run through it.  Enigma  message 01:12, 27 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, you're quite right. I just saw the revert. Bishonen | talk 13:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC).


 * I suppose he changed his mind about letting others edit it. Oh well, not a big deal. I would say that he might be better off asking for full protection in that case. The way I came across it was someone was linking to it as the authoritative guide on writing an FA. One of the flaws I have is that I automatically proofread anything I read. I checked the edit history before submitting any changes. Thanks for the message anyhow,  Enigma  message 16:35, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:Something odd
I did not get you. What were you referring to? =Nichalp  «Talk»=  09:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have speedily deleted the page, and left a note on the user's talk page. It does not need oversighted. Oversight is needed if you come across people's addresses, phone numbers and othe such personally identifying information. See: WP:OVERSIGHT =Nichalp   «Talk»=  09:54, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Re: Request for assistance
I'm sorry, I completely missed your comments. :) I've closed the Pig Empire one as retarget, but it no longer goes to American Empire. It goes to a Hoffmann book, which seems fine with me, but I read a comment about it going to a new section at the Abbie Hoffmann article. If not, no worries; I've left the target out of my closing note. Sorry about the delay. Best, PeterSymonds (talk)  22:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

RFBs and Tangobot
It doesn't, really - but we do use Tango's tool for RFA Analysis to check for duplicate !votes, thus; That's where I saw the error, as it can't understand when someone uses multiple paragraphs for their !vote. Sorry for the confusion, UltraExactZZ Claims~ Evidence 17:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

RFA thank-you
Thank-you for your support of me at my recent RFA, which was successful. I have appreciated everyone's comments and encouragement there. Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

My talk page
Thank you for your speedy reversion on my talk page. Useight (talk) 04:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll do those in a moment, as soon as I finish brushing my teeth. It's hard to type with one hand. Useight (talk) 05:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Both accounts are indef blocked and the article is deleted. I left the redirect for you in case you were bored. Plus I'm going to get some sleep now, I've got an early morning class to attend. Useight (talk) 05:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Whoa
Regarding your comment closing the "Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/75.47.129.129" page, were you saying that the IP I noted is related to the SSP suspect? - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  18:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Technically it was my comment through Enigmaman. I was referring to the whole thing. IPs are easily more dealt with than accounts. Just RBI the whole lot, to be honest. Scarian  Call me Pat!  19:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Right on. It is nice to know that when you are dealing with a disruptive IP that you aren;t the only one going through it, though. :) - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  23:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey Arcayne, if you'd like, I could keep an eye on it too. Let me know what to do and I don't mind helping out.  Enigma  message 23:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

JaimeAnnaMoore
Re Suspected sock puppets/JaimeAnnaMoore - I saw a note asking for assistance at WP:SSP and waded in. I have next to no experience of the subject and would appreciate any advice or comment you have to offer. It seemed clear that said user was not operating a sock farm, but I wondered if the next step would be to pursue the matter per "Alternative accounts being used inconsistently with this policy (WP:SOCK) or otherwise used inappropriately may be blocked as "an inappropriate alternative account" and tagged as such." Ben  Mac  Dui  21:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The user was not violating WP:SOCK because she (?) was not using it disruptively. Merely editing from your IP does not constitute abusive sockpuppetry. I don't see anything there that merits a block. I was discussing it with User:Scarian and he agrees.  Enigma  message 21:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * As for helping on SSP, yes, that would be very useful. As I said at WP:AN, there's a limit to what a non-administrator can do, but if you look at the case and evidence and give your opinion, it makes it much easier for the admin who comes along to either block or not block.  Enigma  message 21:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Understood and thanks. Ben   Mac  Dui  07:24, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

little mistake
Thank you for correcting it. :) —αἰτίας •'discussion'• 21:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)