User talk:Enkyo2/Delegitimisation as a tactic

Usage in community discussions
Although this term is new to me, it appears to have been used frequently in community discussions such as WP:Articles for deletion -- compare here.

In 2007, it would have been helpful to me if there had been an article like this one when I first encountered delegitimization as a tactic. At that time, I did not have words to explain or understand what was happening. --Tenmei (talk) 15:29, 19 September 2011

AfD contexts
Would this article be strengthened by adding of one or more examples from AfD discussions? --Tenmei (talk) 18:26, 21 September 2011

Delegitimization as a tactic

 * ? → permanent link as of 22 Sept 2011

Uninsightful, garbled personal essay, serves only as a highly idiosyncratic personal argument by which one troubled editor apparently means to defend himself from his critics. "Delegitimation refers to the process whereby an editor and his or her diffs are undermined because of an alleged deviation from wiki-norms. It becomes a distraction from closer scrutiny of the content of an editor's writing. It is marginalizing or devaluing the legitimacy of a contributor to our encyclopedia building project." What is this supposed to mean, beyond "I feel butthurt because people have criticized my editing so much"? Delete or userfy; no chance this will become a useful opinion reference that others will commonly have reasons to refer to. Fut.Perf. ☼ 03:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Tenmei probably wrote this article as part of his rant Arbitration/Requests/Case/Senkaku_Islands/Workshop against other parties in an on-going ArbCom case. As it occurs, I am the person he is complaining about. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 03:56, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * QED -- Bob provides a pointed example of tactical delegitimisation.  His words appear plausible; but in fact, his ad hominem comment only "attacks the characteristics or authority of the writer without addressing the substance'' of this essay. The verb "rant" is an example of loaded language which "criticises the tone of the writing without addressing the substance of the argument". This is parsed explicitly here.  In the pertinent part, I explained:
 * "An important lesson learned the hard way -- for me, perhaps the most starkly brilliant breakthrough -- in this ArbCom case is a verb Magog introduced in evidence about Bobthefish2 here. This verb and what Magog says it means are useful in contexts beyond the ambit of this case. As an exemplar of explaining something novel in an ArbCom context, Magog's use of this verb should be highlighted, e.g.,
 * "Notably, before the event even occurred, I'd already been expecting for Bob to pick a fight sooner or later in an attempt to delegitimize me. I was proven magnificently correct. It's difficult to believe it was an organic thought process (and not an opportunity to pick a fight) given how quickly it happened. (emphasis added)
 * "The term or the idea 'WP:Delegitimization' needs to be re-stated and underscored. Wiktionary does not explain or define this word in the way Magog uses it; nevertheless, Magog's conceptual insight needs to embraced."
 * Bottom line . The time and thought invested in researching and writing this essay were not about Bob. --Tenmei (talk) 16:42, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Keep -- As I explained on the talk page here, this term is new to me. However, the concept of "delegitimization as a tactic" appears to have been used with some frequency, including community discussions about articles for deletion.
 * The history of recurrent and increasing usage in a range of WP:Namespace contexts suggests (a) the arguable relevance of the subject; and (b) the plausible likelihood of potential contributors who may expand it -- compare Wikipedia search results
 * The use of this term in a range of real world contexts suggests that it has become a "buzz word", which suggests continued and increasing namespace usage in the near future -- compare Google search results.

This array of factors are unrelated to the speculative comments in the diffs above. --Tenmei (talk) 14:50, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Userfy, per nom this is "uninsightful, garbled", but the writer should have the chance to turn it into something insightful and coherent. -- Klein zach  00:44, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Clearly doesn't belong anywhere in project space. Can't see a particular reason not to userfy - plenty of editors have weird stuff in userspace that's meaningless to everyone else (OK, so most of it is bot scripts, but whatever...)Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:26, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

2006

 * Articles for deletion/Chinese ethnocentrism Unlike Jewish ethnocentrism, which is an external (to Judaism) construct invented and used by anti-Semites to ridicule and delegitimize ... 7 KB (1,044 words) - 18:22, 23 April 2006
 * Articles for deletion/Ali Ibrahim Kalyanaraman Also, red links voting keep delegitimize keep arguments.-Jersey Devil 23:34, 9 March 2006 (UTC): The above discussion is preserved as an ... 9 KB (1,312 words) - 22:54, 3 June 2006
 * Articles for deletion/New Ivies Does it delegitimize Newsweek's coverage of any other notable institution to label that "boosterism") 3) That this will be a "flash in the ... 8 KB (1,171 words) - 23:23, 30 August 2006
 * Articles for deletion/Religiousness and intelligence This does not delegitimize these areas of intelligence research.: The studies clearly define their measurements of religiousness. ... 28 KB (4,189 words) - 12:58, 16 August 2006
 * Articles for deletion/List of White supremacists List of White supremacists : This only serves to de-legitimize wikipedia. (User:Izmorrow ) Comment, Wikipedia has been good in regards to ... 26 KB (4,094 words) - 06:27, 7 September 2006
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-03-23 Roman Catholic Church We should give those their own pages, as we have, according to their actual names, and we should not use them to delegitimize and confuse ... 26 KB (4,117 words) - 16:12, 11 April 2006
 * Articles for deletion/Occupation of Palestine Yet another attempt to delegitimize the Jewish state in a small part of ancient Jewish homeland. nowiki/nowiki ←Humus sapiens ←Talk 06:14 ... 118 KB (19,590 words) - 06:10, 13 June 2006

2007

 * Articles for deletion/Allegations of Israeli apartheid (7th nomination) This article is about an inflammatory issue that exists solely to denigrate and delegitimize the State of Israel. By its very nature, it ... 22 KB (3,296 words) - 08:50, 4 September 2007
 * Requests for checkuser/Case/DeanHinnen BenBurch has been relentlessly pursuing false sockpuppet investigations against me and against Fensteren in an effort to delegitimize ... 3 KB (271 words) - 22:43, 3 February 2007
 * Articles for deletion/Criticism of Judaism desirous to delegitimize every Jewish comment in the discussion. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not categorize you as a ... 32 KB (4,681 words) - 05:40, 31 May 2007
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive158 barnstar be given for anything doesn't make sense, but me giving a barnstar for the wrong reason does not delegitimize the barnstar itself. ... 212 KB (32,637 words) - 17:22, 2 February 2007
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive166 org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Coolcat%2C_Davenbelle_and_Stereotek#POV_editing_by_Coolcat tries to de-legitimize an AFD on an ...  157 KB (24,445 words) - 22:14, 8 December 2007
 * Articles for deletion/Steve Gilliard This matter is an embarrassment and serves only to delegitimize Gilliard. span style"background-color:White; color:Black" &8756;& ...  66 KB (9,844 words) - 20:03, 5 June 2007
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive254 Delegitimize my arse. Guy (Help! ) 10:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC): I appreciate your considered, thoughtful opinions on this matter and your ... 254 KB (38,058 words) - 15:50, 19 August 2007
 * Requests for comment/Petri Krohn Speedy keep - When I first saw this article, I thought it was Estonian nationalist POV-pushing to delegitimize the Estonian SSR (Exactly ...   94 KB (14,865 words) - 11:19, 15 August 2007

2008

 * Peer review/Occupation of Palestine/archive1 sentence is objected to by HistoryBuffEr because he says the word "presence" is a euphemism that delegitimizes Palestinian Arabs. ... 9 KB (1,547 words) - 20:36, 18 February 2008
 * Articles for deletion/Estonian SSR (independent) Speedy keep - When I first saw this article, I thought it was Estonian nationalist POV-pushing to delegitimize the Estonian SSR (Exactly ... 11 KB (1,678 words) - 22:44, 10 March 2008
 * Requests for checkuser/Case/Kossack4Truth Like a couple of other editors on the losing end (Scjessey and Shem), he believes he can win the content dispute by delegitimizing editors ... 11 KB (1,491 words) - 07:19, 29 June 2008
 * Articles for deletion/Anti-Hellenism (2nd nomination) an article on the rejection of classical culture; the fact that the current article is not very good does not de-legitimize the topic itself. ... 8 KB (1,091 words) - 13:13, 8 December 2008
 * Articles for deletion/Zionology The fact that it does not have a place in an "English dictionary" does NOT delegitimize this Russian term. The application of WP:NEO is ...   7 KB (930 words) - 00:11, 30 December 2008
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive354 I will not tolerate being delegitimized in this fashion. Please do something effective about this sneaky little pack of trolls. ... 260 KB (41,056 words) - 05:45, 19 February 2008
 * Articles for deletion/Republic of Estonia (1990-1991) I thought they were Estonian nationalist POV-pushing to delegitimize the Estonian SSR (Exactly the opposite of what the nominator claims.) ... 16 KB (2,490 words) - 22:44, 10 March 2008
 * Articles for deletion/Fictional history of Spider-Man (2nd nomination) I don't claim that my view on the subject delegitimizes your view. I just feel that it it is possible for this article to turn into one ... 27 KB (4,074 words) - 16:42, 26 October 2008
 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Walter Humala None of this serves any purpose, but the fake awards do help to delegitimize a particularly offensive practice on this encyclopedia. —ptk ... 35 KB (4,750 words) - 11:29, 19 November 2008
 * Reference desk archive/Science/2006 August 28 It would be like referencing other tertiary sources like paper encyclopedias, except Wikipedia is "delegitimized" because anybody can edit ... 49 KB (7,941 words) - 21:14, 3 April 2008
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive243 Nobody tries to delegitimize edits as the product of "the conservative cabal" or "the liberal cabal". But the Jews; they're all acting ... 328 KB (51,515 words) - 14:56, 17 February 2008
 * Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Fancruft (second nomination) Deleting the essay is a step toward delegitimizing the word and thereby compelling editors to make actually stronger more objective ... 116 KB (16,574 words) - 21:35, 6 July 2008
 * Articles for deletion/Allegations of apartheid (fifth nomination) turn it to practical and pragmatic purposes of conflict-resolution as opposed to rhetorical and ideological purposes of delegitimizing Israel. ... 145 KB (22,251 words) - 01:41, 14 July 2008

2009

 * Articles for deletion/Settler violence There is no news here or encyclopedia article material for that matter, only an attempt to collectively delegitimize Jewish settlers and ... 12 KB (1,571 words) - 00:26, 10 April 2009
 * Articles for deletion/2009 Fox News – White House controversy as the Obama administration made it official White House policy to attempt to delegitimize the largest cable news operation in North America. ... 76 KB (10,954 words) - 00:01, 16 December 2009
 * Articles for deletion/Prince Akram Shammaa The matter of fact that you disagree or try to delegitimize those references and the work of other scholars doesn't make sense. ...  16 KB (2,512 words) - 02:56, 30 July 2009
 * Stub types for deletion/Log/2006/October/16 Finally, c'mon anyone with a brain in their head can see that some anti-Israel editors on Wikipedia wish to delegitimize Israel's claim ... 82 KB (12,523 words) - 23:58, 14 March 2009

2010

 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-03-14/John Birch Society In other words, does the organization recognize legitimate competing ideas or does it attempt to de-legitimize alternative proposals by ... 13 KB (2,081 words) - 03:51, 25 March 2010
 * Articles for deletion/2004 U.S. presidential election controversy The issue is not 'casting something into delegitimizing the election'. There are legitimate issues with the election's legitimacy that ... 124 KB (18,138 words) - 02:06, 14 April 2010
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive605 As has been said already, Mackan79, the mediation process has been delegitimized by the fact that many editors who had initially signed up ... 614 KB (92,315 words) - 18:48, 15 July 2010
 * Edit filter/False positives/Archive 10 starting with the just previous entry by "Harlan" to which I responded:I've never heard of a campaign to de-legitimize Israel or the Wall. ... 180 KB (22,029 words) - 21:27, 14 September 2010
 * Articles for deletion/Allegations of antisemitism in the United Nations The article appears to be part of an ideological campaign to delegitimize the UN because of criticisms the body has made of Israel. Be in ... 7 KB (2,422 words) - 06:49, 2 August 2010
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-10-17/Government in exile Green POV supporters tend to argue that the ROC "is" in exile, because if such were true, it would be delegitimized. Likewise, Blue POV ... 27 KB (4,627 words) - 00:45, 28 November 2010
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/2009-11-11/War of 1812 Deathlibrarian is dragging this out primarily to insert a POV to delegitimize arguments he disagrees with. Thompson and Randall--both ... 198 KB (32,517 words) - 22:37, 10 January 2010
 * Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard/User:Yehoishophot Oliver Actually, it is YOU have the single-minded goal to delegitimize me and those whose POV you disagree with. As for your diffs, almost all of ... 245 KB (40,518 words) - 10:28, 13 January 2010
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive486 S/he forces other editors to reiterate their arguments repeatedly and tends to try to corner other editors by delegitimizing their ... 404 KB (61,570 words) - 07:17, 27 April 2010
 * General sanctions/Climate change probation/Requests for enforcement/Archive8  Nevertheless, you don't define someone in terms of a controversial position unless you're trying to delegitimize the person for holding ... 401 KB (63,490 words) - 06:40, 18 June 2010
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive341 Asking if people are sock puppets and noting your belief that they are SPA delegitimizes their opinion and contributions. Part of this ... 250 KB (37,844 words) - 02:13, 2 August 2010
 * General sanctions/Climate change probation/Requests for enforcement/Archive10 commentators have criticized the phrase as an attempt to delegitimize skeptical views, and for injecting morality into the discussion about ... 253 KB (38,919 words) - 06:40, 13 September 2010
 * Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 61 B'Tselem's facts have never been challenged as inaccurate by the opposition who certainly would attempt to delegitimize B'Tselem if they could. ... 252 KB (38,356 words) - 16:02, 22 September 2010
 * Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 50 Value-free news reporting is a myth, often cultivated by those who represent the dominant view in order to delegitimize rival aspects. ... 253 KB (39,597 words) - 15:04, 13 October 2010
 * Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 47 These attempts to delegitimize a journalist and newspaper that reported the term represent the latest effort. Sorry for the time-wasting, ... 264 KB (40,566 words) - 15:05, 13 October 2010
 * Content noticeboard/Archive3 Because the United States has set the standard for what it means to be a superpower, European elites seek to de-legitimize one of the main ... 198 KB (30,787 words) - 20:35, 13 October 2010
 * Centralized discussion/Apartheid/Archive3 Does someone say they're part of an attempt to delegitimize France? Does someone else say no, they constitute a noble attempt to come to ... 176 KB (28,167 words) - 20:51, 13 October 2010
 * Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive520 SA is quite clearly attempting to de-legitimize ArbCom, a democratically elected body charged with enforcing WP-wide policy. ... 407 KB (60,756 words) - 22:23, 13 October 2010
 * Neutral point of view/Noticeboard/Archive 15 In fact it is more than useless if there is no specificity to it, since it can easily function to delegitimize something on its face just ... 268 KB (43,004 words) - 04:40, 18 October 2010
 * Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 78 a couple of the people who are attempting to delegitimize Fox News in favor of self-published blogs from experts have been doing the same ... 306 KB (47,961 words) - 12:19, 11 November 2010
 * Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive75 What this AE and incident report essentially does is de-legitimize my legitimate arguments and contributions to the article which are vast ... 274 KB (43,239 words) - 06:36, 7 December 2010

2011

 * Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 93 "The Israel-based Reut Institute discusses what it sees as delegitimization and demonization of Israel in this document", "The interaction ...   250 KB (39,530 words) - 22:04, 15 May 2011
 * Mediation Cabal/Cases/2011-04-17/Israel and the Apartheid Analogy He states that, reflecting a delegitimizing and demonizing agenda, ... The Harrison content would now fit best in the "Delegitimization of ...  14 KB (2,139 words) - 16:29, 26 May 2011
 * Requests for arbitration/Israeli apartheid/Workshop The delegitimization of the poll occured when action was taken pre-emptively on the stated assumption (by Humus) that there would be no ... 391 KB (61,278 words) - 01:20, 27 May 2011
 * Articles for deletion/Blame Israel first It could have been an article about the currently popular delegitimization narrative rather than the Blame Israel narrative. ... 104 KB (15,948 words) - 23:50, 2 February 2011
 * Requests for arbitration/HistoryBuffEr and Jayjg/Evidence/Full version Jayjg expends great effort to racialize and delegitimize moral and ethical opposition to immoral Zionist policies by human rights-minded ... 496 KB (78,658 words) - 01:08, 27 May 2011
 * Requests for arbitration/Paranormal/Workshop Skepticism is the correct approach to paranormal subjects: We cannot de-legitimize methods of science. This proposal asks us to ignore ... 621 KB (90,285 words) - 01:42, 27 May 2011
 * Conflict of interest/Noticeboard/Archive 5 "to de-legitimize the Maharishi", a mission of protecting a leader from criticism which has nothing to do with NPOV, ATT, or BLP standards. ... 107 KB (16,943 words) - 04:24, 8 September 2011
 * Articles for deletion/Khrystenn Asariah,p>Lastly, I believe some of the comments you have made have delegitimized Ms. Asariah’s work and efforts (if others happen to read some of ... 27 KB (4,068 words) - 22:49, 24 January 2011
 * WikiProject Military history/Arab-Israeli conflict oasis It is not about Israel's policies or wars anymore, the agenda is to delegitimize Jewish connection to Jerusalem. -Humus sapiens 04:53, 1 ... 22 KB (3,563 words) - 00:29, 5 June 2011
 * Requests for comment/Israeli settlements resemble attempts to delegitimize mandatory wiki policy and dehumanize the people who describe settlements as settlements in reliable sources ? ... 67 KB (9,606 words) - 21:10, 18 January 2011
 * Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 87 id 176243 declared himself the enemy of international law and voiced his intention to delegitimize it. Why would you want to include this ...251 KB (38,682 words) - 06:44, 1 February 2011
 * Requests for comment/Paid editing plan to delegitimize our belief systems and replace them with a counter-hegemony that seeks to till the hostile side of the Comstockism garden. ... 533 KB (77,921 words) - 05:22, 7 February 2011
 * Requests for adminship/The Bushranger That's not to delegitimize the opposition, I simply disagree with their conclusions. Good luck!-RHM22 (talk ) 03:48, 23 February 2011 ...  110 KB (16,212 words) - 05:51, 23 February 2011
 * Articles for deletion/Accusations of Arab Apartheid article yet, but you cannot google a phrase Accusations of Arab Apartheid to delegitimize a concept.I.Casaubon (talk ) 13:08, 28 March 2011 (UTC) ... 69 KB (10,235 words) - 06:35, 29 March 2011
 * Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive153] biased in a manner to minimize/delegitimize Gaddafi, and present the conflict in Libya as heading already toward a new transitional government. ... 259 KB (34,619 words) - 23:22, 13 April 2011
 * Requests for arbitration/Waterboarding/Evidence   Now you see that idea in full bloom: "Win the content dispute, and WP:OWN the article, by delegitimizing the people who disagree with you ... 108 KB (17,007 words) - 02:10, 27 May 2011
 * Requests for arbitration/West Bank - Judea and Samaria/Evidence the best term 2) Efforts to delegitimize Israeli or Jewish sources - these provide many legitimate POVs that should under NPOV be included. ...  209 KB (33,747 words) - 02:11, 27 May 2011
 * Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive91 is to demonize Jews and de-legitimize Israel?" ←  ZScarpia   14:14, 21 May 2011 (UTC): The violation of WP:ARBPIA derives from the action ...    278 KB (42,899 words) - 06:37, 12 June 2011
 * Reference desk/Humanities/February Werdnabot Archives more they delegitimize their ugly cause,) blocking them is an understandable reaction, and was clearly done with only the best of intentions. ... 216 KB (34,326 words) - 01:09, 13 July 2011
 * Wikiquette assistance/archive106 I began to feel attacked and delegitimized when Steven http://en. wikipedia. org/w/index. php? title Joseph_Farah&action historysubmit&diff ...206 KB (31,670 words) - 22:59, 1 August 2011
 * Wikiquette assistance/archive31 You all believe what you are saying is true and my guess is you all probably dislike having that delegitimized by claims of POV pushing.: ... 104 KB (17,240 words) - 23:02, 1 August 2011
 * Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive94 Zionist propaganda has for decades sought to delegitimize Arab grievances by blaming Arab hostility to Israel on antisemitism. ... 226 KB (35,129 words) - 11:49, 26 August 2011
 * Village pump (policy)/Archive 89 that those articles aren't hurting anyone because they're "separate" from the real articles, but they will delegitimize our editing culture. ... 407 KB (63,570 words) - 06:49, 15 September 2011


 * "Only a fool says what he or she does not believe. You all believe what you are saying is true and my guess is you all probably dislike having that delegitimized by claims of POV pushing. In general, claims of POV pushing whether justified or unjustified simply cloud the air and create bad feelings. More importantly, Wikipedia content disputes (which this is) are not resolved by who shouts "POV pusher" more emphatically - so you have nothing to fear from the other editors' claims and you only make yourself less convincing by your own. Which is not a good thing since you are trying to improve the article and you will need all the help you can get." For POV pushing claim to be convincing to a third party, you would need evidence - e.g. that someone is either refusing to use sources (see WP:V, WP:NOR), persistently using poor quality sources to justify a point of view (see WP:SOURCES, WP:RS), granting undue weight to marginal sources (see WP:UNDUE) or misreading/misrepresenting sources (see WP:SYNTH). Which gets us back to focusing on the sources and not the other editors." -- Egfrank 06:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)