User talk:Epthorn/Archive 1

Rants
These conversations are generally regarding the article Korea_University Epthorn 14:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Epthorn, you really make me reminding someone from Sungkyunkwan University. Your critic tones toward Korea University just represent your personal resentment and jealousy. I added references where you claimed that references were to be required. Anyway, you can't judge the tone of Korea University thread by your own subjective and distorted feelings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Patriotmissile (talk • contribs) 16:52, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I just added more than enough references. I hope you can support your so-called facts with sole and unambiguous references, not with your own, prejudiced, subject opinions. By the way, I got information to give you. I found that Sungkunkwan Univrsity falsified their number of SCI journal publications []. So I will post this 'fact' to the Sungkynkwan university thread sooner than you expect. I am sure that you always support justice, so I hope you help me prevent deleting this fact by Sungkyunkwan university alumni and studentsm, will you, Epthorn?Patriotmissile 18:55, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I happened to have another interesting article. It is all about severely notorious defaming acts on other Korean universities done by Sungkyunkwan university. I think you do believe you will like this inforamtion.Patriotmissile 19:43, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

'''Response: I do not attend Sungkyunkwan university. I also don't engage in this silly university rivalry among the SKY schools or any others for that matter- in the US, UK, or Korea. I hold no 'prejudiced, subject opinions' except to improve the articles themselves. If you want to go attack Sungkyunkwan, go ahead- I am not particularly interested in that article (since I do not know the school) so I think I will leave that to you and whoever else is around. As I stated, I will wait about a week and then check back with the KU page to see if it is improved.Epthorn 10:10, 20 October 2007 (UTC)'''

Reminder
Epthorn, I left a response against your recent remark on my talk box. In addition, whatever you say, it's not important to me, and I honestly don't believe, personally. However, I would like to you to remind this.

'Whenever you revise anything on any threads, you also have to make justifications on your revisions and words with facts and coressponding references, which you exactly have asked me to do so, right? '

I have absolutely no idea what gives you the idea that you are so unprejudiced, intellectual living creature on earth, so your judgements shoud be accepted without any objection. I am telling you once again that if you want to revise something on KU thread, revising what so evr you want with facts and reliable references , otherwise, I have no choice, but to report you to administrator as a person commiting vandalism. I am sure that you will agree with my idea, since this idea has originated from you, right?Patriotmissile 16:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, by the way, I will post the 'fatcs' I know with appropriate references on Sungkyunkwan university. I know I know you're nothing to do with SKKU, but I don't know why, but I just wanna let you know this.Patriotmissile 16:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Riiiight... okay, first, I have made no major revisions on anything except the talk page of KU. Clearly this does not count as anything but an attempt to find consensus. Second, I welcome you to 'report' me to anyone you would like- although I believe you will find any such administrators annoyed at being disturbed for nothing. Third, while I am amused by your threats with regard to "Sungkyunkwan," I have no idea what on earth you're talking about: http://www.kevindustries.com/media/kw/files/bunny-pancake.jpg
 * Cheers! Epthorn 20:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hahaha you're so funny and interesting. It is 5 AM in Korea, and you are playing actively in Wikipedia now (though, you also noted that you are in the middle of mid-term test in Korea University. You must be an early bird. Is it a little stange that your claims are mostly matched to what Brincos has claimed? Also, it is so contradictory that you don't know Brincos ans my mentioning regarding to Sungkyunkwan university. You clearly said you read all replies in the SKY (schools) thread, and actually that's the point you began to revise and raise question on the Korea University, just like what Brincos did.

Well, Brincos allegedly told me that he is a comuter scientist, so to him, it is a piece of cake to use any proxy IP or whatever, including KU IP address, so may be it could be meaningless to ask do investigation on the IP address of people like Brincos to administrators. By the way, I am very impressed that you and Brincos have the same mind and talk with the same tone. May be you guys are twin brother who were separated long ago.Patriotmissile 20:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Again, excuses aside, if you want to charge people with a serious wiki infraction (puppetry), please do so with evidence. Otherwise refrain from making spurious allegations. If you want to accuse me, Brincos or anyone else please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets#Reporting_suspected_sock_puppets


 * Great, thanks for playing. Epthorn 21:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I feel kind of annoying to spend times with this, so I'm just leaving 'cut-and-paste' sourced from my resonse on your remark in my talk box, here.

Hmm, day by day, regardless of your continuous assertion on your identity, I have surprised at your remarkably overal similiarity to Brincos. Claiming 'threatening' used to the number one weapon for Brincos. Let me tell you about threatening someone. I think you have traced my previous records here, so I'd like to ask you following. Have you ever traced the most initial reason caused the 'editing war' you just mentioned? Do you have any idea what the guy Brincos have done? I honestly feel very annoying to explain all those unfolding process of confliction between me and certain university (not universities as you claimed) and a few guys, including Brincos.

I tell you in a very short way. They are the one who started 'the editwar', and they are the one who have started revising the contents in KU thread as a mean of revenge. I don't expect you will understand my situation, but that's a sheer fact. Next time, if you are not really a Brincos, then please try to understand whole situation before blaming someone.

In addition, in terms of your definition on threatening, you also have threatened me. You also said 'if you don't do something, I will do something', right?. Should I consider you as a threatener? I hope in future, when you say something, try to put the same standars on you too. People are easy to be prejudiced.

Actually, your series of behaviours makes me feel so odd. You said you think the term SKY schools is meaningless and nothing but a slang, right? Then suddenly your stared changing contents in the Korea University, exactly like what Brincos did. Moreover, you are claiming that you're an US expatriate attending in Korea Universty now, and very strangely, you seem to hate KU. First question is that if you want to make things straight on SKY schools, why haven't you tried to revise on the threads other universities? You only have addicted to change something on KU thread, right? That's unbelieably strange to me.

One thing I would you to remind once more is that whatever you want to change or delete, you should bring crystal clear evidences with public-trustable references. All your remarks made on KU thread were completely relied on your own opinion without any evidences and public agreement. That's the thing you have asked me and I have done. I do believe you don't have problem with it, at least.Patriotmissile 03:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Sungkyunkwan university references

Epthorn,

Thank you for your kind instruction. I found lots of references used in the threads for Korean universities are written in Korean, which are completely useless as you urged. Sungkyunkwan university thread also has tons of those Korean references, so as a loyal wikipedia user, I will clean them up, including adding the facts I know about Sungkyunkwan university. Then I will check up other Korean universities too.

You do your job and I will do mine. Ok?Patriotmissile 15:04, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I forgot to thank you for your scary obssesion solely on Korea University, unlike your description on your pure intention and purpose of playing around in Wikipedia haha. If you know the guy named Brincos, please say hello to him.Patriotmissile 15:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh Epthorn, I forgot to mention on thing. The major contradictionary remark you made is that you do not need to put references on your revision for correcting tones. Once you change anything, your revisions then become existing contents, so accrding to your hyphothesis, all contents are needed to be supported by references written in English, right? Don't you think there's contradiction in your words?

In case you claim that changing tone is totally up tp personal judgement and no need to be with references, then I will definitely assess your revised tone and change them as long as I want, right? Please let me know if there's any defect on my logical flow.Patriotmissile 15:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Hallelujah. Yes, you can look at the tone of the article as well. If after I have changed something you feel it is not NPOV, then we can discuss that. Until that point there is nothing to discuss since I have not made changes yet. Epthorn 15:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Beckett and civility
Hello FrankB, user Beckett has requested the look of third parties at WP:WQA regarding your conduct on his talk page. Having looked at your remarks there and in the diffs, I think his concerns have merit. Some specific issues that jump out:


 * - Several statements like "but (you) acted in an unacceptably hostile, unprofessional, and juvenile manner," do not appear to show good faith on your part WP:FAITH and, at best, are going to inhibit further constructive editing.


 * - "From your contributions, your edits are very narrowly focused—branch out and stop owning things. What are you, in junior high with infinite free time to throw away casually someones work?"
 * This sort of statement seems to not fit well with WP:PA or WP:BITE- someone's edits should be decided on the merits of those edits, not by looking in their history as a way to discredit them. No eating newcomers!
 * - "And you call yourself an editor?"
 * Again, this doesn't help with constructive editing (and clearly violates WP:PA as well as the spirit of WP:CIV).

There were numerous instances of this sort of language that seemed to violate the spirit of civility.

I'm not here to discuss or take sides on the merits of the edits. I hope that you'll find it more constructive to avoid this sort of language in the future, however, so as to avoid increasing tension (WP:MASTODONS). Alternative steps might involve asking others for their input, including on the Portal:American_football page. Additionally you can take a look at such projects to see what others have done so that pages on different teams can be standardized, if appropriate. I understand your defensiveness when your edits are reverted, but remember that the world will still be around tomorrow and those edits are not gone for good. I will be making similar suggestions to Beckett and I hope that a short WP:CHILL period (even if just for a good night's sleep) can help. Epthorn 11:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I find that being a Mastodon once in the while is precisely the correct thing&mdash;I don't go for all this modern P.C. stuff, and I didn't start the hostilities&mdash; reverting four Brady records without looking at the finished type set page did that.


 * Secondly, any content revert outside of vandalism, is as incivil as things can get, unless you are a kid with out a life and family and two kids to put through school. That's juvenile, and my emails have been full of people (full professors!) who have decided to not contribute further to the project for the hostile environment here.


 * The other dispute resolution methods you suggest are also inappropriate&mdash;this alledged editor NEEDS to learn to be more respectful and more careful. Not any forum page, besides, they all take time, and the matter isn't worth the effort and time cost to me. Note, my biggest gripe is he just reverted without discussing... etc. I won't go into that horrible quasi-essay he used as justifying his actions.


 * Some people are so constituted that you have to step on their toes until they apologize, and I'm afraid your buddy struck me as one of them, he certainly isn't coming off as mature since he hasn't yet either apologized, nor admitted his mistake. He hasn't so far as I know, restored the deleted records either with their cites.


 * Here's the edit in question, YOU paste that in over the content of the first section title, and then tell me whether it's inappro! If you can say it with a straight face, I'll leave the project to you folks, for clearly I'm mentally incompetent!

===Personal records===

* Highest single-game quarterback rating: 158.3 (at Miami, October 21, 2007)&lt;ref name="Gamenotes20071021-2">&lt;/ref>

* Highest single-season quarterback rating: 92.6 (2004–2005 season) * Highest career quarterback rating against a team: Atlanta Falcons (140.4) * Highest passing touchdown total, season: 28 (2002, 2004)&lt;sup>&lt;big>&lt;nowiki>*&lt;/nowiki>&lt;/big>&lt;/sup>

* Lowest passing touchdown total, season (minimum 2 starts): 18 (2001)

* Lowest interception total, season (minimum 2 starts, not appearances): 12 (2001, 2003, 2006)

* Highest (worst personal seasons) interception total: 14 (2002, 2004, 2005)

&lt;big>&lt;nowiki>*&lt;/nowiki>&lt;/big> &mdash; and counting down... First seven games of 2007 (26 TDs) have nearly tied his previous career best years.

===Part of team records===

*2007 Patriots team: NFL record for most games of three or more touchdown passes to begin a season.&lt;ref name="BGRP20071021">&lt;/ref>

*2007 Patriots team: became the first NFL team to win each of its first seven games by 17 points or more.&lt;ref name="Gamenotes20071021-1">&lt;/ref>

*2007 Patriots team: Most points scored in a single half by team &mdash; 42 in first half against Miami 21 October, 2007&lt;ref name="BGRP20071021">&lt;/ref>.


 * 2007 Patriots team: (Shared) Posting two five touchdown games in season in franchise history; versus Miami 21 October, 2007&lt;ref name="BGRP20071021">&lt;/ref>.

*2007 Patriots team: Franchise record Six touchdown passes in a game&lt;ref name="PGN20071021">&lt;/ref>; versus Miami 21 October, 2007. You should be able to just cut and paste the block from the HTML directly into the page like this Too many nowiki's needed, too little time... just paste that page, less the dummy references section.


 * Thanks for YOUR time, but you should have looked at the facts first. Have a good day. You're preaching to the wrong party and to the choir. Note I haven't (nor won't) revert again. I used up my 15th or 16th overall in this matter already, which is one (and 14) far too many in a cooperative product! BITE is inapplicable, he's no newbie, and PA is trumped by the first amendment, though where I've called him names is hard to see. Express my contempt&mdash;certainly did, do, have and always will&mdash;I'm afraid I've never figured out how to jump through the web to administer a spanking he should have been given circa age ten. // Fra nkB 13:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "He started it" is no excuse for incivility at wikipedia. It is great to have users who have the time and patience to help wikipedia- but again, not having enough of either is also no excuse for incivility. Your attempts to "administer a spanking" are unlikely to garner much sympathy in a dispute, especially if the user seems to be acting in good faith. You don't have to be politically correct, but avoiding contempt is important. As to the edits, from what I saw you both seem to honestly believe your viewpoints- but the WP:WQA is not an area for content disputes in articles. It is simply an informal step towards resolving a problem with civility without resorting to more binding methods. I suppose that will not be the case here, which is regretful. I wish you both the best in settling the differences and again suggest you find third opinions, as 'spanking' each other will not result in anything useful. If you want to make your views clear, you can do so at WP:WQA, but again, it is a non-binding process so you need not do so. Epthorn 14:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * "He started it" is no excuse for incivility at wikipedia. It is great to have users who have the time and patience to help wikipedia- but again, not having enough of either is also no excuse for incivility. Your attempts to "administer a spanking" are unlikely to garner much sympathy in a dispute, especially if the user seems to be acting in good faith. You don't have to be politically correct, but avoiding contempt is important. As to the edits, from what I saw you both seem to honestly believe your viewpoints- but the WP:WQA is not an area for content disputes in articles. It is simply an informal step towards resolving a problem with civility without resorting to more binding methods. I suppose that will not be the case here, which is regretful. I wish you both the best in settling the differences and again suggest you find third opinions, as 'spanking' each other will not result in anything useful. If you want to make your views clear, you can do so at WP:WQA, but again, it is a non-binding process so you need not do so. Epthorn 14:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I will maintain to my dying day that reverting someone is 'as incivil an action as there can be performed here', so wring your hands elsewhere. Chide him for blatantly violating WP:BRD!!! If three records by Brady and 4-6 cites of the same kinds of data aren't something to take someone to task for, you and I see the world with very different eyes, and this project deserves to continue languishing in mediocrity. More to the point, this is something he needs to grow up and face, take to heart, and learn from. Reverts are hardly ever a good idea! Intolerable behavior, and if you want to do some good, council him so. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a business to run, and a very full day. // Fra nkB 14:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

WP:BRD is not a policy or guideline. WP:Civil is. I don't believe most people would agree with you that wikipedia is "languishing in mediocrity," but this is an inappropriate place to "take people to task." There are forums for that in the scary hinterland of the internet. Epthorn 14:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Apology on putting mischarge

Epthorn, I sincerely apologize you for accusing you of the charge of sockpuppetry without clear evidences. I hope you feel allright through my apology. By the way, about the tag you made on the Korea University thread, let's figure it out step by step. I have already asked administrators to judge the claims you made there, so let's see what will follow.Patriotmissile 00:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, then I'll archive this in a bit and consider the matter closed.Epthorn 05:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

It looks that the revolution you've waited has been done on the Korea University thread. As you know, disparity between you and me has lead the situation. Now, you can take a look at the revisions done by the 3rd party you've invited. If you have no problem on KU thread anymore, I will remove the tag you've attached on it. Let me know your opinion.Patriotmissile 20:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)