User talk:Equilibrial/Archive 3

Start class for Al ash-Sheikh
Thanks for reviewing the above article. It's obviously a new article, but not an insubstantial one at 22kb. However, I'm puzzled at the "start class" designation since I've raided all available sources for it and, I believe, it is quite thoroughly organized. Could you indicate what stops it being a c- or even B-class article? I've seen a lot of B-class articles which are significantly less well-sourced and well organized. Thanks. DeCausa (talk) 21:46, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * PS in looking at the examples given at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment, it's much more akin to B-Class. DeCausa (talk) 21:50, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, I just realized that it's possible to set the class to unreviewed, which would've been more appropriate since I don't have the expertise to classify articles in this area (I recently switched to this designation, guess you didn't see it yet). I just wanted to add a wikiproject link to the talk page to give it some context.


 * Very nice job on the article, by the way! Shoplifter (talk) 21:51, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. The article page still says "start class" but may be I'm missing something obvious. Btw, how would I go about putting it before someone knowledgeable on the subject to classify it? Thanks. DeCausa (talk) 22:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Where does it say "start class"? For me it says "This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale." in Talk:Al_ash-Sheikh.
 * I'm looking at the Article page itself, not talk:
 * Al ash-Sheikh
 * A start-class article from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 * DeCausa (talk) 22:12, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * That's strange, I don't see that. Don't think I've ever encountered it in any article; maybe you're running some gadget I'm not? Either way one would think it would've switched since the article is now unclassified. Shoplifter (talk) 22:15, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, it's a gadget: "Display an assessment of an article's quality as part of the page header for each article." I turned it on and it says unassessed for me. I'm guessing you're looking at a cached version of the article. Shoplifter (talk) 22:23, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's it. I use the Firefox browser and it sometimes takes a long time to specifically update some things. Thanks. DeCausa (talk) 22:26, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's a nifty gadget I just came across: "Add a "Purge" tab to the top of the page, which purges the page's cache when followed." Then you can manually clear the cache of an article to view the latest version. Shoplifter (talk) 22:28, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * To find a person to classify it, I would turn to Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Saudi_Arabia. Shoplifter (talk) 22:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Mafia template
Sorry for the late response, I left my opinion about changing the Mafia Template on its talk page.

I came across these two articles Italian American Mafia crime families and List of American mobsters by organization and I think it would be a good if there were merged. There is already an article for List of Jewish American mobsters and two for List of Irish American mobsters by era and List of American mobsters of Irish descent (the two Irish mobster list should also be merged what do you think.--Vic49 (talk)  16:45, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Here are my thoughts on merging. To my current knowledge the articles to consider include:

List of Mafia crime families Italian American Mafia crime families List of American mobsters by organization List of mobsters by city List of crime bosses List of Jewish American mobsters List of Irish American mobsters by era List of American mobsters of Irish descent List of criminal enterprises, gangs and syndicates

These articles are to some extent overlapping and this makes for redundancy. Some of these lists however are good for navigation because they limit the inquiry to a specific field (crime bosses, cities) and are worldwide in content. If a few articles are merged and then linked up with the others, I think it's possible to achieve clarity in this area even though it seems rather cluttered right now (e.g., instead of having names listed in List of mobsters by city for Italian-American mafia members, replace it with a link to the exhaustive list we achieve by the merger). I guess my proposal is basically what you have in my mind: I suggest we move all non-Italian American content from American mobsters by organization to more specific articles. The List of Jewish American mobsters is a suitable title because there is not much content about Jewish American gangs per se, but primarily individuals. There is more of this for the Irish, but I think the List of Irish American mobsters by era will suffice to cover this subject. Then we merge List of American mobsters by organization with Italian American Mafia crime families. I'm not sure what the best title for the merged article will be; it will be a list of all Italian-American Mafia families and their members. Might just stick with Italian American Mafia crime families as the title. Then we can also include associates which I think is appropriate; I'm thinking that if one looks under the Lucchese family one should be able to find Henry Hill there, but with a note of his associate status.

Another issue altogether is how this article should be structured for optimal clarity and content (I think the list should be quite specific, say divided down by crews/factions to the extent possible). But if you agree with my proposal above, we could begin by removing the non-Italian American content from List of American mobsters by organization and merging the Irish American ones. Then it will be easier to decide how the "raw" content should be presented. It should be said that the List by family looks much better then the List by organization, but I'm sure this can be further improved after merging. Shoplifter (talk) 10:22, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

I just noticed that this article must be taken into consideration as well: List of Italian American mobsters. But this might be a good thing, a simple alpahetical listing would make a good complement to the family-based article outlined above. Shoplifter (talk) 15:56, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

New Sicilian Mafia template
I changed the Mafia template so its only related to Sicilian Mafia. See Template talk:Mafia What do you think? --Vic49 (talk)  19:48, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

International law and the Arab–Israeli conflict
Still looking for sources?    ←   ZScarpia  14:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks for getting back to me on this; I'm currently on vacation and only able to check in here sporadically but I will contact you once I'm back home.Shoplifter (talk) 22:13, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm home now but I think I'll pass on this for the time being. Thanks again for checking in with me, though. Shoplifter (talk) 10:53, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Genovese template
The template looks good, I made a few changes. For your question the imprisoned members should stay in the current members section; even with many serving long prison terms (even life) they are still active with the crime family.

I was planning on making the Genovese family template next (thanks) now one should be made for the Bonanno, Colombo and Gambino families. --Vic49 (talk)  21:43, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Warning over your edits
Please seize inserting the "2011 Syrian uprising" template into every possible Syrian related article. I assume WP:GF, thus i don't turn to discussing your case on Administrator's noticeboard. I kindly ask you to revert your recent edits (except those directly related to 2011 Syrian uprising, and those i reverted myself).Greyshark09 (talk) 18:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Absolutely gf, I thought it should be in all those articles (all the articles I added it to are themselves included in the template, I assumed they had been overlooked). Would you mind telling me why it shouldn't? Shoplifter (talk) 19:00, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * On second thought, disregard the above question - I think you're right, some are a bit of a stretch after all. There were several clearly related ones where the template was missing, though. But I'll go ahead and revert the rest. Shoplifter (talk) 19:30, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your cooperation, indeed such article as Refugees of the 2011 Syrian uprising was overlooked, but making Hafez al-Assad (who is long dead) a "party" of 2011 Syrian uprising is completely out of context.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:35, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Antonio Morello

 * I found this ... "Another bothersome story relates to the deaths of Morello relatives named Antonio. Some sources indicate that Antonio was Morello's father, shot down after a night of drunken gambling. Others say Antonio was an older brother murdered under similar circumstances. There is no evidence to support either claim. There seems to have been no one in the Morello family named Antonio."


 * The origin of organized crime in America: the New York City mafia, 1891-1931 By David Critchley Organization" pg.51-54 no mention of Antonio Morello, he was not in the chart on pg. 53. Critchley explains other authors (Chandler, Pasley and Selvaggi) made mistakes with all the Morello's.

I think the article should be put up for Articles for deletion, to allow others to comment. I believe David Critchley is right about the "Antonio Morello situation" (was misidentified). Throughout Critchley's book he uses references to support all of his facts. Critchley has studied the early history of New York City's Mafia extensively.--Vic49 (talk)  22:07, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

107th street mob
The Morello's were called the "107th street Mob" in the early history.
 * from The American Mafia.com Giuseppe Morello ran the "Morello gang (sometimes called the 107th Street Mob)
 * In For Members Only: The Story of the Mob's Secret Judge By G. T. Harrell on pg.5under Ciro Terranova the 107th Street Mob (name for the Morello family). This author mentions Antonio Morello again.
 * The Morello family breaks apart forming two families Masseria family (today Genovese) and the Reina family (today Lucchese).
 * The Reina family became known as the 107th street mob Valachi said the Lucchese family was known as the 107th street mob
 * While the Masseria family was known as the 116th street MobCarfaro about 116th street crew.
 * In Gangbusters: The Destruction of America's Last Great Mafia Dynasty By Ernest Volkman pg.22Lucchese and Luciano ran the 107th Street gang, while Masseria and his members were on 116th street.
 * See Gangsters of Harlem: the gritty underworld of New York City's most famous neighborhood by Ron Chepesiuk pg. 11-13


 * side note: The Genovese family in the 1990s was also known as the "West Side Mob" (Vincent Gigante operated in lower West side of Manhattan in Greenwitch Village).--Vic49 (talk)  17:53, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * About Charles Ubriaco, Joseph Fanaro and Tommaso "The Ox" Petto they should merged into the Morello crime family article they don’t meet notability requirements.--Vic49 (talk)  18:03, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay good, then that part is sorted. Yes, I think you're right that they should probably be included in the Morello family article instead. Shoplifter (talk) 07:34, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Early Italian-American groups
Hi, check this out: [http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9A03E5DE1239E733A25750C1A9679D946897D6CF Black Hand Suspect Was Bled Himself; Ignazio Lupo, Called Gang Leader, Says the Organization Took Everything He Owned. Once Rich, Now Bankrupt Man Arrested In the Barrel Murder and Long Watched by the Police Comes Back to Face Creditors]. And this 150 Years In All For The Lupo Gang; Eight of the Counterfeiters Get Terms Ranging from Fifteen to Thirty Years. There is loads of stuff in the NYT archives. - DonCalo (talk) 18:47, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Nice find, I will try to incorporate some of that material into the articles. Shoplifter (talk) 07:45, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Five Families template
Thanks for finishing the Gambino template.

I was thinking that perhaps now the main Template:Five Families should be converted to contain all five of the relevant templates, but I don't know how to do this, and I couldn't find an example of that sort of master templating immediately. Do we even still do that? --Lenin and McCarthy |  (Complain here) 23:32, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * That's a good idea, unfortunately I'm not sure either how to do that. Maybe ask at TEMPLATE? Shoplifter (talk) 23:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Beyond chutzpah.jpg
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Nomination of James Episcopia for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article James Episcopia is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should bedeleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/James Episcopia (3rd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. DonCalo (talk) 18:25, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

DeCavalcante template done
I finished the DeCavalcante crime family template. --Vic49 (talk)  15:26, 17 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks good, well done. Shoplifter (talk) 15:56, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Your user name
Shoplifter, your user name is obviously grossly inappropriate. I suggest you change it. Conservative Philosopher (talk) 07:02, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, you're right, this name is unnecessarily provocative. I will go ahead and change it. Shoplifter (talk) 20:10, 23 September 2011 (UTC)