User talk:Erewhonian

Hello, Erewhonian, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, please see our help pages, and if you can't find what you are looking for there, please feel free to ask me on my talk page or place  on this page and someone will drop by to help. Red Director (talk) 01:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
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January 2020
Hello, I'm Robvanvee. I noticed that you recently removed content from Trip hop without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.  Rob van  vee  06:53, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

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Idries Shah; John G. Bennett
Hi, just a note re. your edit to Idries Shah. Alan Tunbridge's A Noose of Light: Memories: 1940 – 2015 (CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform) is self-published, so it is not an acceptable reliable source, and I had to revert the edit. Thanks for your work, and sorry. Ditto John G. Bennett.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   15:28, 18 May 2024 (UTC)


 * No prob, you reminded me I first read of this in Stairway to Subud, published originally by Dharma Press (1965) and by Undiscovered Worlds Press - the expanded 2005 edition I just cited.
 * On the subject of self publishing, what is the status of Human Givens books? An extended para of quotes in the I Shah article is sourced to the owners of HG who publish their own books. Cheers Erewhonian (talk) 10:59, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Well, Alan Tunbridge is clearly a self-published author. Anthony Bright-Paul is not, though the cover gives the impression of a self-published book. Most of Tahir Shah's work is now clearly self-published, even though he's called his imprint "Secretum Mundi". So, it's pretty clear which of these would pass as reliable secondary sources independent of the subject (and giving significant mention of the subject).


 * People like Shah set up Octagon Press and later the Idries Shah Foundation (strictly speaking ISF Publishing) which is, in a way, self-publishing; and Human Givens have their own publishing company, Human Givens Publishing Ltd. These are a bit more questionable, and I'm not sure what the answer to that is. Maybe you could ask at the Reliable sources/Noticeboard, maybe additionally pointing them to that paragraph at Idries Shah, as your example? I'm not sure who added that: it could have been an editor innocently looking for material on the teaching stories, or it could have been someone wishing to promote Human Givens (perhaps with a conflict-of-interest (?)).


 * As well as that, we can't use Shah's books in articles about Shah (a primary not secondary source; certainly not independent of the subject), except sparingly to back-up basic and uncontroversial facts. Likewise Human Givens books in articles related to articles about their work. Something written about Shah in a Human Givens publication would be independent of the subject (though, of course, some of the people involved have in the past had a relationship with Shah (say)). Regards,  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   11:51, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I just noticed the two Notes in the IS article are sourced from a self-published book. Tractus Books only published Omar Ali-Shah, his student Augy Hayter (plus a few reprints of Ikbal A-S). Erewhonian (talk) 08:40, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Again, you may need to take this to (say) the Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Simply removing all this material may be unfortunately disruptive.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   08:45, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll look into that. I've no intention of removing anything before discussion. Erewhonian (talk) 08:48, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's also important to maintain a neutral point of view (see WP:NPOV). For example by not simply picking out the words about Shah applying extreme pression on JGB, if there are other factors involved and not mentioned in the article, indicating, say, that this gave JGB, and he felt that it gave him, freedom; or that Shah bought JGB somewhere to live.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   12:06, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed. However I thought it improved NPOV by including neglected contributory factors. Previously it appeared as if IS got the Doubleday contract on his own, and Bennett gave away Coombe Springs without pressure. Erewhonian (talk) 08:51, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   08:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)