User talk:Erpert/Archive 6

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December 2011
Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living persons, as you did to Satine Phoenix. Thank you. ''When you write about someone's sexual abuse by her father, you have to use stronger sources than the subject herself. See WP:SELFPUB.'' Morbidthoughts (talk) 21:44, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I read WP:SELFPUB, and point #3 says that my reference was valid because "it does not involve claims about events not directly related to the source". Her father is directly related.  Erpert  Who is this guy? 21:55, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You ignored point 2. It is a claim about her father, who is a third party. Do not reinstate his name or the abuse without better sources. Morbidthoughts (talk) 23:10, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Excuse me, I didn't "ignore" anything. And why would two points contradict each other?  Erpert  Who is this guy? 23:13, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Each point is considered separately and only one point is needed to properly exclude the source. Morbidthoughts (talk) 23:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That doesn't actually answer my question. And how is her father a third party? He's obviously related to her. In addition, I don't think the warning was warranted because that suggests I was trying to maliciously be libelious about her father.  Erpert  Who is this guy? 00:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * "Third party" in English means another person or group of other people. It does not have any connotations to familial status. The warning is warranted because you were repeating a serious enough charge that could be potential libel without the proper sources. As to your prior point, I did answer your question but you didn't get it. They are two separate points. Events are separate from parties. It doesn't matter if they seem to contradict each other. They don't. You can't use self-published sources to prove events that are not directly related to the subject and you can't use self-published sources to prove claims about other parties. Morbidthoughts (talk) 00:44, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You put a warning on my page and now you're going off on a tangent? Highly unfair, don't you think?  Erpert  Who is this guy? 00:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Article talk pages, again
Continuing from the previous conversation here...

I mean, for example, Alyssa Reece where you created the article but left the talk page blank. Someone else had to come along and put the usual templates there. I just noticed you have a habit of doing this. That's all. Dismas |(talk) 00:30, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Wasn't aware I had to do that; this is the first time it has ever been mentioned. I thought those tags were added automatically by a bot or something.  Erpert  Who is this guy? 00:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Some times they are. Though it might not add all those that are relevant.  Dismas |(talk) 01:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Gonit Sora

 * A note of caution, but G4 only applies to articles that have been deleted due to a deletion discussion, such as AfD. You can't use G4 for an article that had been previously speedy deleted. Thanks. &mdash;Dark 09:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It was at AfD.  Erpert  Who is this guy? 09:09, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * But it wasn't deleted in AfD, but under G11. &mdash;Dark 09:12, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Categorizing AfDs
I started the Arizona She-Devils AfD via Twinkle, but it must never have categorized. Twinkle bug? Raymie (t • c) 00:18, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

User talk:Graviton4
Please keep in mind that it is pointless, not to mention poor etiquette, to issue user warnings to users who are already blocked for the very offenses you are warning them about. By clicking on User contributions, you may see whether a user is currently blocked, and for how long. --  Blanchardb -Me•MyEars•MyMouth- timed 06:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Recent Reverting Re:
Hi Erpert.

First of all, the point is, literally, that the main part of your blankings are NOT related to "contentious material about living persons"... contentious in English means controversial, and contentious material about living persons is, ie, "xxxx is a longtime supporter of Republican Party", "yyy is a lesbian", "zzz is a Jewish", "in his private life he is used to..." or also "xxxx was claimed the best singer of Eighties", "yyy was definied one of the worst actor in the history of cinema".

I noted there were, in your blankings, several examples of this kind, and please notice that in my reverting I provided to delete, adjust or provide references for this kind of stuff; ie here I deleted the claim that Notorius Big, Jay-Z etc. were "the industry's best " and this is a perfect example of contentious "positive" material about living persons, and I deleted the unsourced Elton John's direct quotation. For the same reason, in the other article about the song "Moment of Truth", I reverted your edits but I also deleted the unsourced sentence "The album gained immense respect within the underground hip-hop circuit" and I added a "Citation needed Tag" about the SPIN ranking. And probably the article need some further cleaning.

So, not ALL of your work was wrong. The problem is that you were not selective and in your massive blankings you deleted parts that are not controversial, you even deleted referenced sentences, and you also deleted sentences that not even involve "living persons" but are facts, such as "the song xxx was included in the yyy OST" or "A Christmas album was issued in 2001"... And where is the controversity about this?: ""Mirror Mirror" featured the singles "You Should've Told Me" and the Grammy Award nominated (REFERENCE INCLUDED) "As We Lay", a cover of Shirley Murdock's 1986 hit.". Finally, I have to note that a great part of your edits is however easily, very easily sourceable, so why destroy rather than improve? WP:BURDEN says "It has always been good practice to try to find and cite supporting sources yourself" and it's almost clear you haven't tried, in any of these articles, to find the sources by yourself.

I hope you understand where is the matter... and obviously references for not-controversial facts are always welcome. Good Editing. Regards, Cavarrone (talk) 20:32, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude ( talk ) 05:58, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

List of abbreviations in photography
Dear Erpert, in December 2010 I began to construct a new article listing common photographic abbreviations (the above title is modified from the original). Within a few minutes of the preliminary entry being posted, you added a copyedit tag. Over a year has passed, during which the list has been extensively edited, enlarged, referenced and generally improved. Do you think that the copyedit tag could now be removed. Or if not, could you define what editing is still needed, please? martinev (talk) 17:05, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Deletion notifications
Hi Erpert. Back in November, you got either an AfD or PROD notification and it was during one of the template testing project's experiments. If you could go here and leave us some feedback about what you think about the new versions of the templates we tested (1, 2), that would be very useful. (You can also email me at swalling@undefinedwikimedia.org if you want.) Thanks! Steven Walling (WMF) &bull; talk   23:39, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Redundant categories

 * Please see WP:DIFFUSE for diffusion of categories into subcategories. Asarelah (talk) 05:20, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You don't see my point though? Anyway, "American" and "female" don't mean the same thing.  Erpert  Who is this guy? 05:50, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid I don't understand your point at all. The category of American pornographic film actors is not redundant with "female pornographic film actors", its redundant with "pornographic film actors from New York". Pornographic film actors from New York is a subcat of American pornographic film actors, and therefore, it should be pruned as per WP:DIFFUSE. Asarelah (talk) 20:08, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's what you meant. Okay, then.  Erpert  Who is this guy? 20:21, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Category:LGBT American people of Nicaraguan descent
Category:LGBT American people of Nicaraguan descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. LeSnail (talk) 17:48, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:American pornographic film actors of Russian-Jewish descent
Category:American pornographic film actors of Russian-Jewish descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. LeSnail (talk) 17:51, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:American pornographic film actors of Jewish descent
Category:American pornographic film actors of Jewish descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 18:40, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:LGBT people of Russian descent
Category:LGBT people of Russian descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 18:42, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Category:LGBT Russian Jews
Category:LGBT Russian Jews, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 18:44, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Jewish American actors


A tag has been placed on Category:Jewish American actors, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Nymf hideliho! 18:47, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Jewish American pornographic film actors


A tag has been placed on Category:Jewish American pornographic film actors, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Nymf hideliho! 18:49, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Notable guest stars

 * Hi Erpert, I perfectly understand what are you saying, but WP:PEACOCK has nothing to do with the attribution of notable, that is an almost clear concept in WP and that reflects some specific and clear criteria for actors. I see the point that some of these actors guested on the show "before they were stars", but "notable guest stars" simply means "notable actors who are appeared in this show", with no reference to the how/when/where they became notable. And if you want other exemples of other television series articles that have these sections you can find hundreds of them, ie see this search (and yes, we have whole separate articles about notable actors on series!): . As far as I can see, no editor (except you) has ever criticized that or boldy removed these sections. My best, Cavarrone (talk) 22:01, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Bridgette B

 * Hi, I saw this at DRV. The sourcing for this doesn't yet meet GNG and DRV does not enforce PORNBIO as it is considered to be too generous in the weight it gives awards and unreliable sources. For a BLP there is an expectation of a minimum standard of sourcing and AVN doesn't cut the mustard because it's fact checking is deficient. I'm mentioning this because I want to give you time to fix this before I send the article back to AFD. Spartaz Humbug! 02:01, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * This situation has already been resolved (incidentally, she does pass WP:PORNBIO, as she has won an AVN Award).  Erpert  Who is this guy? 02:04, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes but pornbio is defective because it allows unsourcable BLPs and if it goes to AFD/DRV it will be deleted if the sources are not found. So I'm giving you a few days to find some sources. Spartaz Humbug! 16:45, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
 * WP:PORNBIO is defective according to whom? You?  Erpert  Who is this guy? 06:59, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Consensus at DRV. Go ask Hobit, Tarc, Reyk or DGG if you want external confirmation. Spartaz Humbug! 07:58, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:American pornographic film actors of German descent
Category:American pornographic film actors of German descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 22:20, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:American pornographic film actors of Danish descent
Category:American pornographic film actors of Danish descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 22:20, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:American pornographic film actors of Russian descent
Category:American pornographic film actors of Russian descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 22:21, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:American pornographic film actors of Chamorro descent
Category:American pornographic film actors of Chamorro descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 22:21, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:American pornographic film actors of Iranian descent
Category:American pornographic film actors of Iranian descent, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 22:21, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Bridgette B for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Bridgette B is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Bridgette B (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Hobit (talk) 03:42, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Dylan Ryan for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Dylan Ryan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Dylan Ryan until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 14:24, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Bridgette B (2nd nomination)

 * I deleted the article because there was a consensus to do so in the AfD discussion, notwithstanding that she meets the letter of WP:PORNBIO. Guidelines are subject to exceptions and PORNBIO in particular is a guideline that lacks the consensus of the community.  There is a substantial body of opinion that it is irreparably flawed and should be ignored.  This is a widespread opinion, based on Wikipedia's other policies and guidelines and as such I gave it weight when closing the AfD.  On the other hand, the opinion that PORNBIO is basically sound and should be used as a rough guideline is also common and I gave arguments based on it weight as well.  The fact that the page is currently tagged as a guideline, rather than as disputed or as an essay, however, was given very little weight.  Guidelines are descriptive not prescriptive and if there is no consensus for them then they can't be used to demonstrate consensus.  Eluchil404 (talk) 07:33, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * If a majority of the community didn't have consensus on a particular guideline, then the guideline wouldn't exist, would it? And if you can see both sides of the issue that clearly, then I would think you'd at least have closed the discussion as no consensus.  Erpert  Who is this guy? 07:41, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Guidelines come into existence in various ways. There is no general vote or similar procedure.  The test for whether they have consensus is whether editors follow them and cite them approvingly in discussions.  At one point, a rough consensus existed for PORNBIO, but as are standards for BLP's have evolved that consensus has eroded.  As for "No Consensus", I felt that the numbers and strength of argument were both with the delete side in the discussion.  Where a guideline (such as WP:N let alone PORNBIO) conflicts with policy, such as WP:V or WP:BLP, the guideline must give way.  Eluchil404 (talk) 07:48, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The "numbers"? Since when is AfD a vote? (By the way, I'm confused by your last sentence.)  Erpert  Who is this guy? 08:15, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * AfD is "Not a Vote"™, but I, and most admins, do not consider the arguments made in the discussion in a vacuum but weigh them in proportion to how many people agree with them. So that many people making invalid arguments are overcome by a few making policy based ones but that when both "sides" make reasonable arguments plausibly based in policy it is the number who agree with each position that determines the consensus (or lack thereof).  As for the last point.  WP:BLP requires that independent, reliable sources be available to verify the content of biographies of living persons.  Thus if such sources do not exist, or if they are insufficient to write a biography (i.e. the only thing that can be reliably sourced is the AVN award and everything else is primary, promotional, or otherwise not up to WP:RS standards), policy calls for deletion regardless of whether notability standards (however defined) are not met.  Eluchil404 (talk) 08:23, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * What on earth are you expecting from the DRV? We told you enough times that DRV doesn't give any weight to PORNBIO and yet you expect them to do a complete 180 and overturn the deletion on that basis. Get real. Spartaz Humbug! 10:07, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * You need to knock it off with comments like that. It says at the very top of the discussion that users can bring the matter to DRV. (You might have been an admin before, but you're not now, so stop acting like it.)  Erpert  Who is this guy? 16:43, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Capri Anderson for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Capri Anderson is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Capri Anderson (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Spartaz Humbug! 18:19, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Your Dylan Ryan sandbox
Just to let you know in case you don't notice it, I commented out the categories on your sandbox article for Dylan Ryan. This keeps the sandbox article out of the live categories. Dismas |(talk) 23:55, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:American actors of German descent


A tag has been placed on Category:American actors of German descent, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Nymf hideliho! 20:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:American actors of Danish descent


A tag has been placed on Category:American actors of Danish descent, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Nymf hideliho! 20:46, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:American actors of Russian descent


A tag has been placed on Category:American actors of Russian descent, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate,. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Nymf hideliho! 20:50, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Category:American people of Jewish descent by occupation
Category:American people of Jewish descent by occupation, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Nymf hideliho! 20:55, 17 April 2012 (UTC)