User talk:Esme Shepherd

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Hello, Esme Shepherd, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! We're so glad you're here! Sadads (talk) 16:56, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Kishen Kower (January 10)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by SeraphWiki was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Kishen Kower and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Kishen Kower, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "db-self" at the top of the draft text and save.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Kishen_Kower Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:SeraphWiki&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Kishen_Kower reviewer's talk page].
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SeraphWiki (talk) 06:32, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Kishen Kower (January 14)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by KJP1 was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Kishen Kower and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Kishen Kower, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "db-self" at the top of the draft text and save.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Kishen_Kower Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:KJP1&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Kishen_Kower reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

KJP1 (talk) 18:12, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Kishen Kower
Have replied on my Talkpage. KJP1 (talk) 22:57, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Kishen Kower (February 5)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by CNMall41 was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Kishen Kower and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Kishen Kower, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "db-self" at the top of the draft text and save.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Kishen_Kower Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:CNMall41&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Kishen_Kower reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

CNMall41 (talk) 20:32, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Plays by Joanna Baillie


A tag has been placed on Category:Plays by Joanna Baillie requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz Read! Talk! 19:01, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:47, 27 November 2020 (UTC) Okay, I don't remember how this arose but it is not needed.

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Thank you for pointing this out. The link should have been to Henry Singleton (painter) and I have corrected this.Esme Shepherd (talk) 11:01, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Reproductive prints
Please stop WP:SPAMing these to artists' bios. Johnbod (talk) 13:53, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

? I have not linked any reproductive prints and having examined all requirements I can find nothing wrong with what I have done. The reason for this link is that there is no other way of connecting the artist and the engraver to a multi-media artwork consisting of an engraved picture and a poem that is integral with it. Such artworks can only appear in wikisource and, perforce, not under the artist or engraver, but the poet. I see you have removed my external link on Rembrandt but cannot for the life of me see any justification for doing so, the link was to an external work that incorporated art by that painter, not to a print. Esme Shepherd (talk) 16:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * They are reproductive prints, and are wildly WP:UNDUE, which you clearly need to study carefully. I'm not the only one to revert this spam. Johnbod (talk) 20:29, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

You seem to be someone who knows about art and yet you are strangely ignorant on this issue. How can a poem be a reproductive print? The poem and print are one. Thus is not just my personal opinion. I refer you to https://www2.shu.ac.uk/corvey/cw3/ContribPage.cfm?Contrib=23


 * Note in the first paragraph: 'The small amount of her work that is generally available exists in the form of collections and anthologies that encompass only the written components of her art. These compilations of verbal texts only do not preserve either the nature of the substance of Landon's mature work, which typically consisted of both a visual text, such as an engraving, and the verbal text of an accompanying poem. Moreover, not only is this verbal material divorced from its visual components but, also it is often skewed chronologically and contextually.'
 * and, in a subsequent section: 'The specific reference here is to L.E.L.'s poetry, which typically consists of a poetic response to a visual stimulus that is printed beside the poetry .... The reviewer describes the symbiotic relationship that is created between the visual stimulus, often a work of art such as a painting or an engraving, and the poet's imagination. Energized by "genius," a synthesis occurs within the poet that produces a metaphysical overlay that is then projected via the poetry to the audience.'
 * Dibert-Himes also refers back to Sarah Sheppard who knew the poet and wrote: 'How did pictures ever seem to speak to her soul! how would she seize on some interesting characteristic in the painting or engraving before her, and inspire it with new life, till that pictured scene spread before you in bright association with some touching history or spirit-stirring poem! L.E.L.'s appreciation of painting, like that of music, was intellectual rather than mechanical,--belonging to the combinations rather than to the details; she loved the poetical effects and suggestive influences of the Arts, although caring not for their mere technicalities.'

Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:05, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * What you call "visual text" (!!) is I presume a reproductive print, or if it is not you are not describing it well. Either way, these links are WP:UNDUE on the biographies of the original artists. Johnbod (talk) 03:36, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

You are the final arbiter on these matters, so I have to accept your judgement. Rembrandt obviously did not know his painting was to be used in this way, although Raddon did--he was paid to produce an engraving to be combined with an illustrative poem. I have always tried to stick to facts and I will continue to do so. So, if we were dealing with music, you are saying that any link to a lied would be WP:UNDUE on the biography of the original poet. However, in that age, especially in the gift book market, artists were commissioned to paint pictures for use in this way and I cannot see how you can claim a link to be WP:UNDUE in such cases. If an external link cannot be made to an artist's productions, what else is it for?
 * You seem surprised by the expression "visual text" for the engraving, which is not mine. However, you ought to be able to see that this is the thought processes of the observer, which are composed of language and therefore in effect text. These differ for every viewer and it is the synthesis of these thoughts with those presented by the poet that constitutes the purpose of these artworks. Esme Shepherd (talk) 09:40, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not the "final arbiter", & you are welcome to raise the matter, on Talk:Rembrandt. But I think you would find other editors taking my view. If the re-usage were not "undue" it should be included in the main text, which would often be appropriate for poets set to music by a major composer. But this was nearly 200 years after Rembrandt's death and only one of thousands of re-uses of his work of various sorts. Johnbod (talk) 14:55, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your clarity, I find your final comments reasonable and fair in the case of Rembrandt, so I am happy with your judgment. I hope you have found my comments at least educational, though if you have studied art then you probably knew it all already, even those "visual texts"! Esme Shepherd (talk) 18:31, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

August 2022
Hello, I'm Display name 99. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Display name 99 (talk) 20:33, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

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Your addition to James Cook
Hello Esme Shepherd

I agree with you that this section needs expansion, but I have cut back your edit because you haven't provided any evidence that this poem is a significant example of James Cook's cultural legacy. There are literally thousands of poems and other artistic works about Cook from the time of his first voyage. Indeed, he was one of the most famous people in the Empire. If you are interested in James Cook, I would be happy to work with you to expand this section, focusing on the most important artistic and literary works about Cook, and his impact on popular culture. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 12:54, 9 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't particularly want to press the point but although you have made the entry shorter, it is now totally inaccurate. Landon was not a sentimental romantic poet by any stretch of the imagination. Unfortunately, views have been expressed on her for nearly two centuries that are based on a complete ignorance of what she wrote. This is in large part due to misogyny, which was rife, especially in the nineteenth century. In this modern age, aren't we supposed to be sweeping aside these forms of discrimination. I feel obliged to correct your error and recommend you read Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:30, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I gave a reference from an authorative source describing her as a sentimental romantic poet, and the Cook poem certainly fits that description. But my major concern is that this is a very minor poem which is only tangentially about Cook (it's actually about her relationship with her brother). The link you provided shows an illustration of a garden scene, not of Cook. Do you have a facsimile copy of the actual book which shows the full page and illustration of Cook? Are you sure the poem wasn't written in the early 1830s about her brother and then recycled for the book you cite? No matter how strongly you feel about the alleged treatment of Landon, wikipedia is not about righting great wrongs. This article is about Cook, not evangilising for a favorite poet. Please see the Talk page on Cook. I'm happy to take up the discussion there so others can state their view. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:16, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Your source I fear is out of date, derivative and by no means authoritative. This is the trouble with this citation system. You should take more care with it and you are still making the mistake of calling it a poem; it is a poetical illustration to a picture, in this case a portrait and not the illuminated capital you have confused it with. It was not Landon's habit to describe the picture in her illustration but to write on the associations it brought to mind. In this case it was a personal memory, but that is not usually the case. I have now doubled the link to show both halves of this, so you can now access directly the portrait of Cook. However, to appreciate this work, it is necessary to open both halves of the citation at the same time. As Landon was one of the most widely read poets of the day, I don't know why you persist in calling her a minor poet. Have you read Glenn T. Himes yet? However you may describe her work, throughout her short life, she was an innovator. Also, the publication date is 1837, not 1838. Annuals are always produced for the Christmas market, as you know. Esme Shepherd (talk) 03:39, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

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