User talk:Esowteric/Archives/2010/February

Sufism
I don't really know anything about the subject, I'm just trying to put a stop to the edit war. 67.51.38.51 (talk) 16:29, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks.  Esowteric + Talk  16:30, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I am just trying for wikipedia to have true statements and not false. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.160.27.188 (talk) 19:48, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you, too.  Esowteric + Talk  19:56, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help with this- I'll be sure to leave a detailed explanation for my edits on the talk page. (Omirocksthisworld (talk) 23:53, 26 January 2010 (UTC))
 * Many thanks.  Esowteric + Talk  09:43, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

✅ Seems to have calmed down now.  Esowteric + Talk  10:46, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

References and punctuation
I see you've been going through a number of articles, changing nothing but the relative placement of references and punctuation. You should probably be aware that a number of well respected publication place the references before the punctuation, and that that style is perfectly permissible at Wikipedia. Indeed, WP:REFPUN (part of the Manual of Style) states that, provided it is used consistently, the system of referencing should not be changed. There are plenty of articles where the referencing does need to be fixed up, and I applaud your efforts to improve Wikipedia in that regard — it's a boring and thankless task, I know — but I feel there may be better channels to explore than "correcting" articles that are already fine. --Stemonitis (talk) 08:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry: you're quite right. Thanks for the information.  Esowteric + Talk  09:09, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Timothy Brook (historian)
For my own reference: Timothy Brook now has the following eight currently unassessed articles. They're hopefully at least "start class"; hopefully the guy himself will be a "c". Please leave any comments or gripes; etc here.  Esowteric + Talk  10:13, 1 February 2010 (UTC) .
 * Timothy Brook (historian)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 1 February 2010
Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 21:06, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Hazrat Syed Qalandar Ilm Ali Shah Jilani
An article that you have been involved in editing, Hazrat Syed Qalandar Ilm Ali Shah Jilani, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/. Thank you.Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. For my own reference.  Esowteric + Talk  10:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC) ✅ Deleted at long last.  Esowteric + Talk  10:07, 1 February 2010 (UTC)


 * If I'm remembering right, I was led to this article by a "Can someone please look at this article" kind of notice you had placed somewhere. I wonder if you could LMK where it was? Thanks! --Sarabseth (talk) 15:41, 5 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi, you know I'm really not sure now. My memory is like a sieve. Someone put a speedy tag on the article; that was declined as the article creator claimed the guy was a Sufi saint. You may have seen my comments on the article's talk page or at Articles for Deletion?  Esowteric + Talk  15:47, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 8 February 2010
Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 02:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Help with Islamic titles
While editing various articles relating to Islamic subjects, I have picked up the notion that titles such as Imam, Qazi, Hazrat are not to be used (just like honorifics like PBUH or R.A.). I cannot find the Wikipedia policy document which discusses this. Will appreciate it very much if you can help.

Thanks! --Sarabseth (talk) 14:34, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi there. Have a look at WP:MOSISLAM. With good wishes, eric.  Esowteric + Talk  14:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * In the case of articles like Inayat Khan, since a lot of folk know him by his pen name Hazrat Inayat Khan, I usually leave the full name in the lede on first mention, for clarity.  Esowteric + Talk  14:41, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

WP:MOSISLAM was the first thing I looked at. Unfortunately, it talks only about honorifics, and not about titles like Imam, Qazi, Hazrat. Any other suggestions? Thanks! --Sarabseth (talk) 15:33, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, sorry. Hmm, can't find anything specific to Islam. All I can find is biographies#Honorific prefixes  Esowteric + Talk  15:56, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And honorific titles on the same page: biographies#Honorific titles Also something on article titles somewhere.  Esowteric + Talk  15:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh well! Thanks for your time and effort!  (Would you say, though, that generally not using titles like titles such as Imam, Qazi, Hazrat as part of names is the convention Wikipedia seems to use in practice, even if it may not be written down anywhere?)  --Sarabseth (talk) 16:44, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


 * That's what I thought. I just took "honorifics" to mean both honorific suffixes and also honorific titles/prefixes. Your best bet is to ask Jayen466. He's well versed in such things and a Vet IV editor.  Esowteric + Talk  17:25, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

The WP:MOSISLAM discussion specifically talks about honorifics like PBUH, RA, SAW, but does not address titles like Imam, Qazi, Hazrat. There's also the term Syed, which can be a given name, but which I understand to also be widely used as a title for descendants of Muhammad.

After my last message above, I posted a "please help" in Talk:Sufism. If I don't get any useful pointers from there, I'll ask Jayen466, as you suggest.

It looks like the editor I have a dispute with is not going to agree to remove such titles unless I can cite him a specific wikipedia "thou shalt not". Or unless a consensus of other editors develops, but no one else seems to have any interest in that article. He produced the following wikilinks: Imam Ali, Imam Hussain, Imam Zain-ul-Abideen, Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq or Imam Moosa Kazem, and argued that since they point to articles about the concerned individuals, the use of such titles is valid. I did point out to him that, in every case, the links redirect to an article with a different title, that neither the title of the article nor the name of the person in the lede includes the title Imam. But judging by his past responses, I don't expect him to pay any heed to this.

Thanks very much for all your help! --Sarabseth (talk) 19:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 15 February 2010
Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 12:48, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Final discussion for Requests for comment/Biographies of living people
Hello, I note that you have commented on the first phase of Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

As this RFC closes, there are two proposals being considered:
 * 1) Proposal to Close This RfC
 * 2) Alternate proposal to close this RFC: we don't need a whole new layer of bureaucracy

Your opinion on this is welcome. Okip  02:17, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 22 February 2010
Read this Signpost in full &middot; Single-page &middot; Unsubscribe &middot; EdwardsBot (talk) 11:49, 24 February 2010 (UTC)