User talk:Esowteric/Archives/2023/August

The Signpost: 1 August 2023
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:37, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Have you seen...
this? Skyerise (talk) 22:20, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I have now, thanks. BTW @, could you maybe propose a possible lede at the DRN? My proposal is very sketchy.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   07:03, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I see that you just changed the lede at Witchcraft. I wasn't sure if changes were allowed during the ongoing RfC. Sorry to see that the DRN failed. Let's hope that the RfC that came out of it succeeds ... one way or the other.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   18:10, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 August 2023
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

European witchcraft
Expanded and with a new lead. Cast an eye over it and make improvements if you see the need. Skyerise (talk) 16:53, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Skyerise.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   16:54, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * One might reasonably question the amount of European witch trial material still included in witchcraft. Skyerise (talk) 16:56, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a far cry from the Witchcraft article, Skyerise. Well written and expertly crafted. I just hope that the lede doesn't get tagged as being essay-like, or dumbed-down, simply because it's an eloquent summary.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   17:59, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not attached to it. But really shouldn't the intro be like that? Skyerise (talk) 18:00, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No, please don't change it! It's great.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   18:03, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Skyerise (talk) 18:08, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Regarding witches flying (if you can find reliable sources), in Hans Baldung, the text reads: "Flying was inherently attributed to witches by those who believed in the myth of the Sabbath Flight; without their ability to fly, the myth fragmented."

However, I think that this is taken too literally, rather than metaphorically. Others are of the opinion that the witches were annointed using an ointment with hallucinogenic properties. One of the ingredients may have been mandrake. See Mandrake – The Scream of Death (not a reliable source, but you get the picture). Idries Shah, who was a secretary and companion to Gerald Gardner for some time, and wrote the biography Gerald Gardner, Witch, borrowing Jack L. Bracelin's name, writes about the ointment and mentions mandrake in The Sufis.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   19:31, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, I don't like how the section on hallucinogen use is just tagged on. Seems the whole idea needs to be merged into the history? Skyerise (talk) 19:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Asian witchcraft
Also, I have proposed in both Witchcraft and Asian witchcraft to move material about the Near East/West Asia to Witchcraft in the Middle East, as Asian witchcraft in general is much different than that in the Ancient Near East and it's inclusion really unbalances the Asian witchcraft article, which should only need a short summary for inclusiveness. Skyerise (talk) 18:05, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Re. merging portions, there is "Template:Merge portions from" if you can figure out how to do that. Maybe it needs source page | section | source page 2 | section 2?  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   20:38, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject
You know, it occurs to be that there should be a WikiProject witchcraft, to describe standards for regional articles and nav templates. Skyerise (talk) 16:20, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed this notification, . I'm not sure how active the project would be, and it would perhaps attract a polarised bunch of editors, but it would definitely be useful to "describe standards" as you suggest, and it would be useful for you to set out your panoramic worldview of the subject, so that people are, as they say, "singing from the same song sheet" and editing accordingly.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   13:50, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I do think that the best way to maintain a neutral point of view is to organize the main material historically by period, followed by any academic views on that history and its meaning. It's what I've tried to do in European witchcraft, without prejudicing the reader by insisting on an arbitrary selection of a particular sub-definition of the topic in the lead, allowing the presentation in the lead to be derived from the history followed by the views on that history in summary form, like articles are supposed to be constructed. Skyerise (talk) 13:56, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 * What's the procedure with a WikiProject? Create a draft, then take it live?  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   15:08, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure, actually. There would need to be enough interest to keep it active. Perhaps making it a subproject of WikiProject Occult and/or WikiProject Neopaganism would be a better approach? That could be discussed on the existing project talk pages to see if there is sufficient interest. Skyerise (talk) 15:17, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that would probably make more sense.  Esowteric +  Talk  +  Breadcrumbs   15:20, 22 August 2023 (UTC)