User talk:Estel05

Zidane
Hi Estel. Zidane gets that many awards it's best to keep them to the most notable official ones otherwise the number will be endless. UEFA, FIFA, League 1, Serie A, La Liga and major football publications. Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 20:09, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi Carlos.

I posted on your talk page already.

The 'BBC greatest European footballer of all time' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/3764063.stm vote won by Zidane is a completely different award from the 'UEFA best European footballer of the previous 50 years' poll - http://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/171606.pdf. As you can see in the links, even the top-10s are different. Hence only one being mentioned is not 'sufficient', as it does not give any idea regarding the other.

The difference is the same as between a World Soccer Player of the Year and FIFA World Player of the Year (one being from a publication while the other is from a football governing body). Therefore, since both are retained, same should be the case with the BBC and UEFA awards.

El Pais is a publication award, like World Soccer Player of the Year. Link - http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/sam-eupoy.html. I have added this to the external sources on the El Pais page.

If you just want to go by official awards, Ballon d'Or was never originally an official award either i.e. it wasn't awarded by a football governing body, it was an honour awarded by the publication France Football.

Hence, please revert your reverts on my edits.


 * BBC Five Live is a radio phone in (I listen to it)..it's not notable or official. EL Pais is a newspaper in Uruguay, again not notable or official. There are no links to any awards of either because they are not recognised. Ballon D'Or is a recognised award, and has now amalgamated with FIFA. Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 20:47, 5 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks. Btw, whom should I approach for a cleanup of the Zidane article? Among other stuff, there is a mention of Paul Lambert marking Zidane in the 96-97 CL final which itself references POV articles and blog posts (not valid sources as per Wiki guidelines) which has been retained for a very long time due to the persistence of the original author in always cancelling any reverts.
 * Just had a google for El Pais, and you may have a point with it. I did notice it was listed on the RSSSF site so it must have some notability...I searched for the winners of the award from 2009 onward but can't see it listed anywhere so this is why Im not sure about it. Is El Pais renowned as a major football publication? On the Lambert marking aspect I can only assume an eager Celtic (or Scotland) fan emphasised that one...I agree it needs cleaned up. Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 21:05, 5 November 2014 (UTC)


 * El Pais itself is indeed a major South American publication, its the one which has been awarding the South American Player of the Year award since 1986 when it took over from the now defunct El Mundo. Rsssf didn't continue updating the award page, but as you can see in this link here (need to use google translate in case you are weak on Spanish) - http://www.taringa.net/posts/deportes/16168253/Futbol-Rey-de-Europa.html Messi won the four editions from 2009 to 2012, and the latest one of those was awarded after taking inputs from about 250 journalists from daily newspapers, weekly newspapers, magazines and news agencies in Europe. So it seems quite legit and notable. Maybe a new wiki page for the award is deserved? Regarding the cleanup, if someone is willing to take it up I will continue updating the profile and other areas on the page which are most often vandalised, since I don't want to put in effort otherwise (you see, the Early Life and Career and Cannes section were mostly my doing before I gave up due to guys like that Lambert fan). Now I only keep an eye on the Honours and Reception and legacy sections (which are less vandalised).
 * Ahh apologies, I wasnt aware of its significance. I have seen the South American Award but didn't realise it was El Pais. Somewhere in the back of my mind i had heard of it but just couldnt figure out where (might have been a report on Luis Suarez). I'll correct myself now. I just had a look at the Lambert references and they all correlate that he man marked Zidane out of it. I recall the game itself and Zidane was very quiet, but just hadn't remembered that Lambart man marked him (Paul Lambert was an excellent player btw)...later captained Celtic. Probably the best Scottish player in the last 20 years. Carlos Rojas77 (talk) 21:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't worry on the El Pais Best player in Europe award, I wasn't aware of it myself until recently when a fellow poster on BigSoccer brought it up. Regarding the Lambert marking, well in the game itself its not very evident as Zidane doesn't seem to have a designated man marker (also Zidane skips over a marker and hits the post, sets up the disallowed Vieri goal from a corner kick and also provides the secondary assist for Del Piero's goal via open play, so not as quiet a game as one might think). As for the sources, I understand that they all were secondary POVs, with the primary being a POV blog post from around Lambert's retirement's time (I think). At least I am not aware of any contemporary news article of the game stating this aspect of Lambert shackling Zidane (probably since Zidane wasn't such a big deal back in 96-97). In any case, this is the editing guideline under which I originally disputed the Lambert shackling aspect while reverting the author's edits - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:POV_and_OR_from_editors,_sources,_and_fields