User talk:EstherCole

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A kitten for you!
A kitten for you! From Sally and Felix

TeaAndOranges (talk) 10:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC) 

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, EstherCole! Thank you for your contributions. I am Zeromonk and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Questions or type at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes ( ~ ); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Zeromonk (talk) 21:03, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
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Notable Staff Members at University of Liverpool School of Medicine
Hi, I have tagged your addition of University of Liverpool School of Medicine with Unreferenced section. These names must have come from somewhere, please indicate where. Several of them were presidents of Liverpool Medical Institution, but I can't find the names in that article or in the LMI website.

The sources need to establish both that they were staff and that they were sufficiently notable for inclusion in the list. The existence of a Wikipedia article establishes notability. I'm uncertain whether presidency of the LMI does so for the purposes of this article.

If you can cite a source then please add a list of presidents to Liverpool Medical Institution.

I was alerted to this through the article on William Thelwall Thomas, which I wrote. I would like to add his presidency of LMI to his article if we can get a source. Verbcatcher (talk) 17:45, 7 February 2017 (UTC)


 * You could expand your list with names from Category:Academics of the University of Liverpool, but please check that the corresponding articles cite an adequate source to establish that they were there. Similarly Category:Alumni of the University of Liverpool for students, but don't add too many, probably only about twenty of the most prominent. Verbcatcher (talk) 17:52, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I now realise that those categories are for the entire university, and you would have to search it for the medics. There is Category:Alumni of the Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, but it only has one member. Verbcatcher (talk) 18:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi, I've left a message for the LMI talk page suggesting they create a list of past presidents on their page. I've started wiki editing as part of an LMI workshop to encourage more history of medicine wikis about Liverpool. As part of this, the aim is to start giving some notable Liverpool doctors a wiki page so watch this space!EstherCole (talk) 23:02, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

references for medical school staff and LMI presidents
Hi, thanks for your feedback.I'm new to wiki editing, so I'm grateful for being pointed in the right direction. My copy of Kelly's History of Liverpool University arrived in the post today, so I should be able to reference the first chairs of anatomy, physiology, Medicine and surgery from there. The LMI presidents list, including Thelwall Thomas, were from T. Bickerton's History of Liverpool from the earliest days until 1920. I supposed these men to be notable by being LMI presidents, but I'm still learning the criteria for what is meant by notable. My research at the moment is looking at connections between C 19th medical networks e.g. medical school and LMI. I'll try to get some references tomorrow and will probably make a more thoughtful selection of notable alumni/staff during the course of my research.EstherCole (talk) 22:41, 7 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the source for Thelwall Thomas. Unfortunately I can't find a scanned copy online. Wikipedia editors should not cite a source that they have not inspected personally, so I can't add this. Please add it at your convenience.


 * The notability rules for having a biographical article are at Notability (people). There used to be specific rules for doctors (at Notability (doctors)), but these are obsolete. The rules for inclusion is a list are less strict (WP:LISTBIO), although members of stand-alone lists should meet the full notability rules (I'm not sure why).


 * I suspect that presidency of the LMI would not impart sufficient notability, expect for mentioning in the LMI article or an article on the person concerned. This raises the issue of a list of presidents of the LMI. If there are too many to reasonably list in the article I would probably not create a list article, for notability reasons. But I'm not an expert, you could try asking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine.


 * If you come across someone who satisfies the the notability rules but has no article then you should put a red link, or ideally create a stub article with the basic facts. William Thelwall Thomas is the only medical biography I have written so far, but I found obituaries in the BMJ and at the RCS. The ODNB is a good source (get a free login from a public library membership or through a university), and a Google search can be productive, especially for unusual names. Regards, Verbcatcher (talk) 00:39, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

I was recommended Plarr's Lives for Royal College of surgeons members and Munk's roll for physicians. William Thelwall Thomas on plarr's looks like this http://livesonline.rcseng.ac.uk/biogs/E003239b.htm I'm hoping to use his reminiscences of medical students for my research. He seemed quite a character as well as being an excellent surgeon. I'm interested to know what inspired you to write his wiki bio.EstherCole (talk) 13:07, 8 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Limiting an in-article list of people to about twenty was just a number that I picked out of the air, and in no way official. This is a matter of editorial judgement and many editors would make no limit.


 * I was inspired to write the Thelwall Thomas article through an interest in Welsh history. His father John Thomas was a Liverpool-Welsh photographer. A large collection of his photographs was given to the National Library of Wales which has released them to Commons, listed in List of photographs by John Thomas. John Thomas took a series of photographs of his son (at c:Category:William Thelwall Thomas). I looked up the son and decided that he merited an article. File:Thomas William Thelwall, smoking a cigarette. Photograph 192 Wellcome V0027253.jpg (not by his father) might be used to illustrate an article on medical attitudes to smoking. Verbcatcher (talk) 16:11, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing. Thelwall Thomas comes up again and again in Liverpool medical education. He wrote his reminiscences in one of the student magazines. I have a nice student debate from the 1876 minute books on the subject of tobacco - a little before his time, but I doubt attitudes changed much!EstherCole (talk) 17:21, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Using your real name
Hi, if Esther Cole is your real name then you should be wary of using a user name that reveals this, particularly as you also give personal information on your user page, see WP:REALNAME. To change your user name see Changing username. Keep safe, Verbcatcher (talk) 23:42, 7 February 2017 (UTC)