User talk:EtienneDolet/John Kizirian

John Kizirian
I stumbled upon Kizirian. What I found interesting is that he was awarded WW2 Victory Medal when he wasn't sent to the front at all. However, he did serve during the time of the war in San Diego. Should I mention that he served in WW2? I personally believe he should since he received a medal for it. What do you think? Proudbolsahye (talk) 18:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see the issue - he entered the U.S. Navy very late in the war, after Germany had surrendered but several months before the bombings of Hiroshima/Nagasaki and the surrender ceremony on the deck of the USS Missouri. So he was in the military during World War II, but was still in training when the war ended and never went overseas to fight.  Nonetheless, he would still have been eligible to receive the medal as it was intended to cover every service person who was in the service for any length of time during the designated period.  Okay, after thinking it over and how military personnel usually look at the issue, there's a way to subtly express the point without stating an untruth.  When summarizing, rather than saying he "served in World War II", say he "served during World War II".  Most veterans wouldn't object to that, and it's accurate without being misleading.  How's that? AzureCitizen (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2013 (UTC)


 * You've read my mind Azure. I have made some adjustments but I dont think it makes reasonable sense as of now. Im more concerned as to what I should put in the infobox. Chances are to leave it as is. Proudbolsahye (talk) 18:01, 21 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree that it's fine to leave the infobox as is - I know it says "Battles/wars" but I'm not aware of any requirement that demands distinguishing what was combat and what wasn't. The explanations in the article body are there for readers who want the specifics.  No worries... AzureCitizen (talk) 12:33, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and made some enhancements to the lede, see if you like that better in trying to sort out how his service years are explained. Feel to free to change anything you want, they are just suggestions.  I must say I'm very impressed with COL Kizirian's decorations and awards for his combat service! AzureCitizen (talk) 13:50, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much Azure. The lede looks great now! 66 awards and military decorations are indeed impressive. However, I only know how many military decorations he has been awarded (34) and nothing beyond that. I'm sure readers would be interested to see the other 35 awards. I doubt if I can find them :( I have also contacted the Kizirian family...they'll be sending photographs of him shortly. Proudbolsahye (talk) 17:54, 22 June 2013 (UTC)


 * P.S. I have nominated Juskalian for GA. So far so good! Proudbolsahye (talk) 17:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. On Kizirian's awards, I noticed some were out of order so I re-ordered them.  That lead me to also re-arrange them in two groups (one for the left side of his uniform and one for the right side).  With regard to the total number, the chart is currently showing 60 in the awards section (DSCx1, DDSMx1, SSx1, LOMx4, DFCx1, SMx1, BSMx6, PHx3, MSMx1, AMx14, JSCMx1, ARCOMx4, NUCx1, AGCMx1, AOMx1, WWVMx1, ACMx1, AOSRx1, ASRx1, KSMx1, ROKWSMx1, VAFHMx1, VGCx6, VADSOx1, VSMx1, VCMx1, VHSMx1, IYDMx1).  So we're only missing six (they may be simple things like campaign stars or more oak leaf clusters), and perhaps the author of the article was also counting the CIB and parachutist badges as well.  So, bottom line, you're actually pretty close to having it "right" already... :) AzureCitizen (talk) 15:41, 23 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you Azure. That was a very well edit on your behalf. You know what? I think we'll reevaluate what we have for the medals once I receive picture of Kizirian in military uniform. Also, I'll have the family take a look as well. Azure I also noticed that you took out the 2nd Army Commendation Medal. In the list of medals, the two Army Commendation Medals are separated. Is it due to different campaigns? Should it still be separated or what? Proudbolsahye (talk) 18:51, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd like to help but I need a little clarification - when you say there were "two Army Commendation Medals" and they were on a list, separated, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you explain a bit further?  Thanks! AzureCitizen (talk) 19:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * The list of medals in the Demirjian book goes like this...


 * Army Commendation Medal
 * Army Commendation Medal (4 awards with V for valor)
 * other medal's etc. etc.

They're separated for some reason. Proudbolsahye (talk) 19:47, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure why they listed it that way... if you earned a particular medal once, and then earned it three more times, we would just say you've earned it four times (and then the soldier would wear one ribbon, with three bronze oak leaf clusters on it). Perhaps they were trying to say that he earned a regular Army Commendation Medal once, and then went on to earn it four more times with the "V" device?  That would actually mean five awards of the medal (1 without the V, 4 with the V).  But normally, in the military, we don't break it down that way, and we don't wear separate ribbons to denote which is which.  For example, if a soldier earned the Bronze Star Medal five times, in which three were regular awards and two were acts of valor that authorized the V Device, then you'd just wear one Bronze Star Ribbon, with both the bronze "V" and four bronze oak leaf clusters to signify five total.  Hmmmm... on reconsideration, what the authors probably meant by listing it that way was that Kizirian really had five awards of the medal in total, and that would justify incrementing the number by one in the awards section.  Sound good? AzureCitizen (talk) 23:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree that's why I got confused. Hm...or it could just be a typo. I really need to look into this. We'll see how it works out. Proudbolsahye (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2013 (UTC)