User talk:Evad37/Archive 1

Welcome!
Hello, Evad37, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place  before the question. Again, welcome! SatuSuro 07:23, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
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Welcome, roadfan!
Hello, Evad37, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like this place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and ask your question there. If you are interested, there is already a community of users who are roadfans or who edit articles about roads, just like you! Stop by any of these WikiProjects—WP:HWY (worldwide), WP:CRWP (Canada), WP:INR (India), WP:UKRD (United Kingdom), or WP:USRD (United States)—and contribute. For those in the United States, there is an excellent new user's guide. There is a wealth of information and resources for creating a great article. If you have questions about any of these WikiProjects, you can ask on each project's talk page, or you can ask me! If you like communicating through IRC, feel free to ask questions at as well. Here, there are several editors who are willing to answer your questions. For more information, see WP:HWY/IRC. Again, welcome! –Fredddie™ 21:26, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the double welcoming, but I thought I should provide you with a few road-specific links. I saw the discussion on WT:WA with regards to WP:RJL, if you have any questions about it, feel free to ask me, or join us in the IRC channel linked above. –Fredddie™ 21:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Kwinana Freeway
Hi, I think you're doing great work with the highway exit/junction tables. Quick question, will you be doing the same for Kwinana Freeway? A table already exists in the history of this page but it got replaced by a custom, non-standard table on 14th January 2012. Not sure if there's grounds to revert it or not on the basis of article consistency, but just thought I'd let you know. Outrune (talk) 10:42, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Outrune. I think you'll find the new table is actually the standard table, according to WP:RJL, and the other tables are the custom tables. After the recent discussion at WT:WA, I have given in to the general consensus there, which was opposed to the exits/junctions tables I was creating. In the US, UK, and other countries, the template jct and other associated templates are used to create WP:RJL compliant tables which are consistent in appearance. Until Australian templates are developed, Orderinchaos has suggested leaving tables as they are. Evad37 (talk) 11:05, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Template:AUS-WAint
Now that you know about this template, we should perfect it. Not being from Australia, I did the best I could to fill in the blanks. If you didn't know, AUS-WAint is a member of the Jctint suite of templates. WAint was already taken, so I had to disambiguate it somehow; we can always move it to a better title. I'd like to think the Jctint suite is analogous to the Citation suite of templates in that they all fill in specific variables in the same core template, Jctint/core in our case, in order to produce meaningful and contextual content for our readers. I hope the documentation I wrote for Jctint/core and Jcttop/core are easy enough to comprehend.

Anyway, when I created AUS-WAint, I didn't know what to use for a first-level division. I went with the Regional Development Commission areas from Regions of Western Australia since it appears every state/territory in Australia has official regions. Like I said before, I'm not from Australia, I only did it that way to make sure the template would work. Any help to get it working better is greatly appreciated! –Fredddie™ 20:36, 14 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help, Fredddie :) . These templates are now much closer to point where they will be able to go on live pages. Regarding the naming, perhaps we can have an AUSint template, and use a switch with a state parameter. The main concern that I have at the moment is that jct puts links on the road routes, and pages in Australia are based almost entirely on road names. If jct could use the road names as links instead, this would save creating a heap of redirection and disambiguation pages. Do you have any thoughts? - Evad37 (talk) 05:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It's a bit late here in the States, but jct doesn't have to be set up to link the route numbers. We have things set up for some types of roads so that they don't link if the page doesn't exist. Compare:
 * In the first case, County Road 204 in Gogebic County, Michigan, doesn't have an article, and likely never will, so it's unlinked. CR 513 has an "article", so the link appears. (The designation redirects to the NFSB name, but since the link works, it appears). In the third example, the County Trunk Highways of Wisconsin don't have articles, and the template is set to not even try to see if there's a link to use. As an individual override, you can always use  with whatever number 1–4 is appropriate. (jct can handle up to four concurrent highway designations, allowing me to do something silly like: )  Imzadi 1979   →   05:42, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, I forgot something else that you could do too. For the Federal Forest Highways in Michigan, I set up the subtemplate so that if the article exists, it links to it. If not, it links to the generic article on Forest Highways. Note the difference between the two links in . Just some options based on how you set up the subtemplates.  Imzadi 1979  →   05:49, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks Imzadi. I've changed jct/link/AUS to use 's for all routes (to avoid red links), and will put links in for the road name parameters. Is there a template to input roads without a route number? Having brackets around the road name, eg
 * seems odd when it is the first entry in the cell. I know it could be entered manually in wikimarkup in the AUS-WAint road parameter, but it seems (to me) like there should be a way to do it with a template - Evad37 (talk) 06:28, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We've never developed one, in part, because for those we've always just manually formatted them by hand. The idea was that jct would simplify (and standardize) creating the correct combination of marker graphics, abbreviated highway designations (with links) and the like. It's easy to remember the naming conventions for one state's graphics and links, but we have 50 states, 5 territories and the District of Columbia... the tempalte has been a godsend at keeping things organized. Outside of our exit lists, we don't typically display unnumbered roadways in our junction lists, meaning any template for formatting them wasn't as useful/necessary.  Imzadi 1979  →   06:39, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Imzadi has it right. Jct was set up so we wouldn't have to remember how each type of sign graphic and links were formatted, which is useful when you almost always use both as is the case in the US and Canada.  However, if you hardly ever use route numbers and instead just use the road's name, you're better off just using simple wikilinks. –Fredddie™ 20:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I decided that rather than try to manipulate Jct to do something it was never meant to do, I should (and have) create separate templates: AUshield, for generating the route shields, and WAcity for the destinations' wikilinks. The road names will be simple wikilinks, as you suggested. Once I've built a few tables in my sandboxes (and checked that everything works), I'll post them on the relevent articles, and progressively update Perth Metro and WA highways and main roads (assuming there are no consensus-related issues). - Evad37 (talk) 13:03, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
 * seems odd when it is the first entry in the cell. I know it could be entered manually in wikimarkup in the AUS-WAint road parameter, but it seems (to me) like there should be a way to do it with a template - Evad37 (talk) 06:28, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We've never developed one, in part, because for those we've always just manually formatted them by hand. The idea was that jct would simplify (and standardize) creating the correct combination of marker graphics, abbreviated highway designations (with links) and the like. It's easy to remember the naming conventions for one state's graphics and links, but we have 50 states, 5 territories and the District of Columbia... the tempalte has been a godsend at keeping things organized. Outside of our exit lists, we don't typically display unnumbered roadways in our junction lists, meaning any template for formatting them wasn't as useful/necessary.  Imzadi 1979  →   06:39, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Imzadi has it right. Jct was set up so we wouldn't have to remember how each type of sign graphic and links were formatted, which is useful when you almost always use both as is the case in the US and Canada.  However, if you hardly ever use route numbers and instead just use the road's name, you're better off just using simple wikilinks. –Fredddie™ 20:17, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I decided that rather than try to manipulate Jct to do something it was never meant to do, I should (and have) create separate templates: AUshield, for generating the route shields, and WAcity for the destinations' wikilinks. The road names will be simple wikilinks, as you suggested. Once I've built a few tables in my sandboxes (and checked that everything works), I'll post them on the relevent articles, and progressively update Perth Metro and WA highways and main roads (assuming there are no consensus-related issues). - Evad37 (talk) 13:03, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Message
It seems like 5 years ago we had someone doing road thingoes - I am very sorry but the fmting issues and things are not really in my experience or focus (I did at a very early stage try railway track diagrams - but that seem like a very long timeago) my main thing would be keep them small if they take over article space and deny an article room for WP:RS or text to explain - I am against them - if you can keep them from getting out of hand - great! Sorry I cannot be of much assistance... SatuSuro 09:47, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

:)
I recognise your efforts are still in train and are yet to reach the final destination, but the amount of work you've already done was clearly worth some kind of recognition. Orderinchaos 06:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the recognition :), although I a lot of it is thanks to the technical help I got from Fredddie, Imzadi1979 and  WOSlinker sorting out the templates. After I've done some more interchange/intersection tables, I will try to improve the road articles to/towards "good article" status. - Evad37 (talk) 02:16, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * That'll be awesome. :) Once it's finished I'll need to figure out how the template works myself so I can help out on a few - I've been doing a large photo collection over at Commons which includes roads (still in progress) and it'd be good to try and get some of those over into articles as well. Orderinchaos 06:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Template:LegendRJL-AUS


A tag has been placed on Template:LegendRJL-AUS requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it must be substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes ( ).

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by visiting the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you.  Imzadi 1979  →   03:31, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, this template should be deleted - Evad37 (talk) 03:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Done. Orderinchaos 06:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Tourism in Perth
Nice work. Moondyne (talk) 03:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks - Evad37 (talk) 05:09, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 18
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited List of road routes in Western Australia, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Charles Street (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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 * - Evad37 (talk) 11:59, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!
Thanks, but Sven's slight adjustment of my design actually received 85%, higher than even Pretzel's who of course created his design very early on, mine came very late... Anyway, I hope whoever changes the main page will consider an enlarged FA photo and "adverts" on wikipedia editing and a more stylish header. ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  11:19, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Queen Victoria street
Hey good work - but I think there is a confusing something there - the route description is including the history - so the headings are a bit confused I think.... to put that stuff in the route description about the bridges... I am gonna change it - just letting you know before I do it - trust you are ok with the change.... SatuSuro 14:24, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, the way you put it makes more sense - Evad37 (talk) 14:32, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The damned horse and winch story is gonna be a challenge to get a good source on though... SatuSuro 15:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Also I think in the long term the bridges are a story enough and probably need to come out of ther queen victoria article - but hell the freopedia project is begging the question as to street arts and cats to be able to fit an locate the list of heritage places... ednless stuff SatuSuro 13:51, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it probably could be expanded into its own article, but until then it might as well remain in QV St. I have for the moment created Fremantle Traffic Bridge as a redirect. - Evad37 (talk) 00:27, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed - the change in the shore line at the east of the harbour and the various bridges needs a damned good map sometime as it is not easy to explain to the unwashed - so to speak... bit like the other stuff at the other end around arthur head - difficult to get head around without adequate graphic info SatuSuro 01:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm definitely having trouble having trouble finding any sort source for the horse and winch. The closest I've come to any mention of winches (in a historical context) is this photo of an old winch in Maylands. Where did you hear the story? - Evad37 (talk) 12:42, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I was about to give up but found some info from the heritage assessment of Fremantle Traffic Bridge & Ferry Capstan Base
 * A descendent of one of the people to do with the thing has a shop in atwell arcade, whom i was talking with about a fortnight ago... SatuSuro 13:47, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * wow - http://inherit.stateheritage.wa.gov.au/Public/Inventory/Details/f37d2c6e-9820-4f76-bfac-e532e3955152 hedging bets that it even existed - sceptical government heritage career servants i bet - the guy in atwell arcade needs a re-visit... SatuSuro 13:52, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Black Swan (dredge)

 * - fascinating read - I thought the dredging occurred earlier than what this story claims... the story gets muddier  SatuSuro 15:12, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * - a dredging proposal from 1865 - right sort of time frame if the Black Swan arrived in segments in 1869 and put into service in 1872, per the above... - Evad37 (talk) 15:39, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
 * well i'd say the black swan dredge deserves an article - there are so few arts about the tubs that did the river - and there were heaps of them that are notable - i would say the black swan is worth it.. .SatuSuro 15:45, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Some more sources for the Black Swan / dredging: - Evad37 (talk) 01:26, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
 * State Library - Swan River Stories
 * State Library - photos from 1897
 * WA Museum - Shipwreck database
 * Local Biodiversity Study for the City of Perth - imapact of dredging etc on biodiversity, including black swans
 * Court Gov. Media Statement on bringing back black swans
 * Court Gov. Media Statement on bringing back black swans
 * I'm now working on an article in one of my sandboxes here, to be title Black Swan (dredge) - Evad37 (talk) 07:15, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * brilliant catch - well done - as I have said the swan river had/has a huge number of such items as yet unexplored - good stuff! SatuSuro 09:15, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Great article! Congrats Evad37. Moondyne (talk) 23:20, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks :) Evad37 (talk) 01:26, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


 * channels - I am sure I have seen cartographic/hydrographers work (either maps or text) on the channels - in the materials you referred to were the channels given names and or further refs at all..? SatuSuro 02:28, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No, there were just descriptions of where the dredging occured - Evad37 (talk) 04:49, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

WA Project thanks
Wow - your capacity to help and explain things on this project (like your time to explain to the Pope about the template) you deserve a big thanks (mislaid my link to wa barnstar, oops) - you are helping make the WA project the peak state project in Australia... and it is appreciated SatuSuro 02:06, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the appreciation. By the way, the WA barnstar is at WP:WA ;) - Evad37 (talk) 02:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * My faith in the capacity of the Freopedia project and the currently worked on List of heritage properties in Freo is that your idea, while alerting to the problems that google hit Afd habituees might bring up, is not one that I would like to go down. Personally I have faith that somewhere out of the woodwork some Trove literate editors might actually adequately expand the stubs to suit any notability issue that might arise.  Also working Freo local history library over the near future - there are well enough items of Seddons, Hutchisons, and the Freo History Society that more or less make the whole central Freo area sufficiently WP:RS and within reason a collection of a grid of articles that makes sense to anyone using the collected info that will go into Freopedia. SatuSuro 04:46, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your responses. I just brought up the list option as an alternative, but if there's going to be enough info and WP:RS's for the street articles created then that's fine. - Evad37 (talk) 05:16, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * NP - It is well worth seeing what could happen if the issue was raised - maybe a few hangon tags at some of the stubs before they are adequately populated and contextualised - some streets have over 5 + heritage properties which technically means over 10 WP:RS just to identify as such - I think High street in the end might have over 40 + if allowing for corners with other street type properties SatuSuro 05:23, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I've been looking up tags and the closest ones I can find are New page and Under construction, but there's probably no need to tag articles until there is a problem. There other option would be to use Expand section to indicate there's more information to come - Evad37 (talk) 05:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


 * So far the only thing with new articles for streets are the enthusiastic stub taggers, I keep forgetting to put in WesternAustralia-road-stub ... SatuSuro 08:30, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

TUSC token d8936f378656a598c69d9ab81f156217
I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

DYK for Queen Victoria Street, Fremantle
The DYK project (nominate) 08:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Good work - far too generous to include me - you did the hard work - ready for another :) ? SatuSuro 08:14, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, I've just nominated the Black Swan (dredge) article. I included you on the QV St DYK for the contributions you did make - about +1500 characters towards the 5x expansion. Also, the damn hard to source horse-drawn-winch story lead me to the ferries info while I was searching for a source - Evad37 (talk) 11:04, 13 November 2012 (UTC)


 * yup it can get damned complicated - Burlong Pool - source of water for the water trains (5 a day at some times) coolgardie/kalgoorlie in the 1895-1902 era - just south of northam - i came across a plan of the water/railway interface so to speak - has led to many odd places since on wiki and off... SatuSuro 14:18, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Winthrop Avenue
Hello, Evad37. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Winthrop Avenue, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:


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 * 2) remove the text that looks like this:
 * 3) save the page

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DYK for Black Swan (dredge)
The DYK project (nominate) 00:37, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 19
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- Evad37 (talk) 11:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

quick to judge
gawd how come they dont do more cleanups where they are needed? i can think of thousands of articles that are looser gooses where fly by editors never returned after their pigeon droppings and the afd obsessvives dont seem to find them... sigh... SatuSuro 13:18, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Its probably down to editors using semi/automated editing tools and New Page Patrollers looking to get articles off their list, rather than fixing issues, even if they are easy to fix, or contacting a relevent wikiproject. So much for WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM. That's one of the reasons I develop articles in my userspace. - Evad37 (talk) 13:52, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * very good idea - do you have any interest in the blessing of the fleet? I think the intangible annual event needs an art or two... i have 2 start links in the st patricks, looks like it started in 50 and has been going merrily since... SatuSuro 13:56, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll have a look later at what sources I can come up with - Evad37 (talk) 23:57, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * thanks for the cleaning up and spruicing the street stubs - real life has and will keep me away from another spurt of creations for a few days I suspect... SatuSuro 08:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've gathered a whole lot of sources for Blessing of the Fleet in Australia, see User:Evad37/Sandbox 4. There's probably enough for a separate Fremantle article. - Evad37 (talk) 15:22, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * well done with sandbox page...
 * thanks for info about exhibitionSatuSuro 23:20, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * it never ends, there goes another one... Parry Street, Fremantle... SatuSuro 13:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep, and keeps on growing... for the moment, anyway. When I first looked it a few days ago, it had about 11 articles, and now its up to 20 (though I think some of that was existing articles being tagged) - Evad37 (talk) 13:33, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * yes I have tagged some - wow what a ref - hardly usable but what a ref - - reckon somebody had ill fitting underpants as Lawrence Ferlinghetti once made the observations about one of his contemporaries... SatuSuro 14:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 26
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 * , but this will keep happening until trove is updated... sigh - Evad37 (talk) 12:08, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Mitchell Freeway
Was taking a look and it seems pretty good; with a bit more work it could probably stand at GAN. --Rschen7754 08:37, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback; its come a long way since I started working on it in June. I plan to take the article to GAN, so any suggestions for improvement would be very much appreciated. (I know it needs a map for the infobox, and I will have a go at making one soon) - Evad37 (talk) 09:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the map will be challenging. The best way is to get GIS data and follow the tutorial linked off WP:USRD/MTF to create SVG maps. I'm not sure exactly what's available for Australia though. (It is possible to use the KML to make the map too, in a pinch). In the worst case, you may have to settle for less. is pretty good at making maps and dealing with qGIS. I was able to figure it all out in a (very painful) weekend, but now that I have the project set up, I can make a map in about 30 minutes for the next several routes that I'll be working on. --Rschen7754 09:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I made a map and have added it to the infobox. (I couldn't find any GIS data, so I had to create it all by drawing lines on top of map images.) Is there anything else I should be doing before taking this to GAN? - Evad37 (talk) 04:22, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, okay. It actually doesn't look that bad. You might want to add text labels for the cities, and some shields too, but that doesn't have to be done for GAN. The main thing I'm noticing is that there are some missing citations in the route description - you can use Google Maps to cite most of those details though. (You may be able to just put one citation at the end of each paragraph, if everything can be cited to that). --Rschen7754 04:25, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, I've changed the route description refs into inline citations for each paragraph, and amended the map. - Evad37 (talk) 05:55, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Seems good! Unfortunately there's a long line at WP:GAN right now, but it should get reviewed eventually. Sometimes at GAN you get bad reviewers, but I keep an eye on all the road noms nowadays to make sure everything goes well. --Rschen7754 05:59, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've now nominated the article. Thanks for you help :) - Evad37 (talk) 06:11, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! --Rschen7754 06:12, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Kings Square, Fremantle
Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:02, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for High Street, Fremantle
Graeme Bartlett (talk) 16:02, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

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Barnstar
Thanks :) - Evad37 (talk) 15:09, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 27
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 * - Evad37 (talk) 12:44, 27 December 2012 (UTC)