User talk:Fête

Re: Carrot
Do you want to hear how it's pronounced or do you want a free audio file for use elsewhere? If you just need to hear it pronounced, you can find it on Youtube. DHN (talk) 17:31, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I recorded it as an AMR file on my phone but currently don't have the tools to convert it to ogg. I can send it to you via email and you can do the necessary post-processing. DHN (talk) 18:08, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Just replied your question in my page :). A plus. Grenouille vert (talk) 12:33, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

North American English regional phonology
Hello, Fête. You recently edited North American English regional phonology, changing some IPA transcriptions. I changed those and some other transcription on the page. The transcriptions I changed, while consistent with many professional publications including the International Phonetics Association, differ from Wikipedia style as described at Help:IPA for English. I noted this in my edit summary and also on Talk:North American English regional phonology in the section "IPA for English".

You are quite right to make bold changes to improve Wikipedia articles. But if another editor reverses or changes things you've added, the next step is to discuss the article on its talk page so that editors can decide on the best content for the article. This is described at BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.

I would very much appreciate it if you would comment at Talk:North American English regional phonology. It is also a good practice to include an edit summary when making changes to article content. Thanks, and happy editing. Cnilep (talk) 12:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello Fête. I presume this is in reference to my now-ancient pronunciation file for Toronto. I have never lived in Toronto itself, but grew up in Hamilton a short distance away and lived my entire life until this year in southern Ontario within an hour's drive of Toronto. While there is some variety in pronunciation within the area generally, I am confident my accent is not atypical for Toronto. --Saforrest (talk) 00:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Marking edits as minor
Hello again, Fête. I noticed that when you edited North American regional phonology again, you marked your edit as minor. As described at Help:Minor edit, a minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute. This includes things such as correcting typographical errors or formatting. It does not generally include removing, adding, or changing content. Happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 01:00, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Fête/fight
I'm confused by your question. I know of no authoritative pronunciation for "fête" other than the French one (/fɛt/). There's nothing in that particularly hard for anglophones to pronounce, and the spelling isn't particularly "misleading" either. So I would expect any anglophone, even one without any knowledge of French, would pronounce it to rhyme with "bet" or "get". In no way would I expect anyone to say "fight", nor have I ever heard that. --Saforrest (talk) 10:08, 23 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I admit I wasn't taught Quebec pronunciation when I learned French. But I'm reasonably familiar with Quebec accents and surprised by your claim: even if the vowel is different from metropolitan French, it still seems pretty far from "fight" (/faɪt/): does Québécois French even have /aɪ/ diphthongs?  Anyway here is an SAQ commercial featuring a guy with an obviously Quebec accent saying "fête" and it doesn't sound like "fight" to me, can you please explain? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgSTNFUGmcY. --Saforrest (talk) 22:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, that is a much stronger Quebec accent than I'm used to (reminds me of Têtes à claques a little), and certainly sounds like "fight", interesting. What point are you trying to make here though?  That some francophone Quebecers pronounce "fête" like "fight"?  OK, fine, point taken.  That all do?  That I don't believe.  If the SAQ commercial I posted wasn't evidence enough, here is Pauline Marois saying "fête": . Anyways, your original question was about how I say it, and answered that.  But I'm puzzled why you asked me: I'm just some random anglophone Ontarian who learned French in school (and not Quebec French).  Why is my French pronunciation important to anyone? --Saforrest (talk) 09:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you know fête is pronounced "fight" in Quebec French ? Fête (talk) 23:26, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Really? --Vietlong (talk) 02:41, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

??? What's your point about that?? Nguyen1310 (talk) 16:56, 15 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not quite sure I understand what the issue is here. Is there a dispute over this on an article? Why choose to ask me, also a French as a second language speaker? In any case, here's my input, however meaningful it may be:
 * I hear /faɛ̯t/ often, but to be quite honest I'm not sure whether it's used more than /fɛːt/ (and we shouldn't forget that some people use the schwa at the end, and some don't). I've heard that it's more of a Montreal thing.
 * After running a search on Wikipedia for "fɛt," I came across [|the following]:
 * "The diphthonged variants of such words as fête (e.g., [faɛ̯t] instead of [fɛːt], much closer to the Parisian norm) are not used by most speakers in formal situations. They have been explicitly and extensively stigmatized, and were, according to the official Quebec educational curricula of 1959 and 1969, among those pronunciation habits to be 'corrected' in pupils. In informal situations, most speakers use these forms to some extent. However, they are viewed negatively, and their frequency is higher among uneducated speakers."
 * Now I can't verify the source [Luc Ostiguy, Claude Tousignant (1993) (in French). Le français québécois: normes et usages. Montreal: Guérin Universitaire. ISBN 2-7601-3330-3], but this definitely sounds like a subjective analysis, and the wording is pretty severe. Why are we using Paris as the norm? Is there statistical data to back up his claim that "their frequency is higher among uneducated speakers?"
 * What do I say personally? I'm not fluent enough in IPA to know exactly what it is, but it's a lighter, "less dipthonged" (if that makes sense) variant of /faɛ̯t/. There is no question that people in Québec pronounce this word, neige, bête, hiver, etc. with the /aɛ̯/ sound, and if you want my conclusion drawn from anecdotal evidence, I would be inclined to say that most Quebeckers (franco-, anglo-, or allophone) pronounce it this way. Indeed, in the linked SAQ video above is a great example of how the average Quebecker talks. The video of Pauline Marois is an exception because, as Ostiguy notes above, an international French accent is preferred in formal settings. - Sweet Nightmares  20:30, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Everyone please note: accents do vary widely within Québec. A person from Montréal does NOT (always) pronounce quite the same way as people from Québec City or those from Gaspésie or Lac Saint-Jean. So some people might pronounce “fête” like “fet” and others might pronounce it like “fight”. I personally pronounce it the latter way, and most people I know also pronounce it “fight”. But I’m from Montréal. The “fet” pronounciation would be more common around Gaspésie, I suppose, and maybe near Québec City — there, they do pronounce “photo” as “fot-o” instead of “foh-to” as most Montrealers would pronounce it; since I read that the proper pronunciation is “foh-to” (confirmed by a Greek-speaking person; the word has Greek roots after all), I pronounce it “fot-o”, but very few Montrealers do so, and my mother even asks me ironically if I’m from Québec City when she hears me pronounce that word thus. CielProfond (talk) 23:53, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Can I know what this is about? Is this in regards to a Wikipedia article, or is this for your personal information? If the latter is the case, Wikipedia's probably not the appropriate place to ask. - Sweet Nightmares  02:15, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Australia
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Nick-D (talk) 03:56, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

Disambiguation link notification for October 10
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Têtes à claques, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page English (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Caisse, Québécois accent
Hi,

You asked on my talk page if I could record the word “caisse” pronounced “à la Québécoise” if you pass me the expression.

I will be happy to comply, but please note my comment above concerning fête/fight; depending on what specific accent you want, I might not be pronouncing it the proper way. I would suggest getting a large(r) sample of people who each pronounce it their way; this way, you might mount “un dossier” about that and present various options.

Best regards, CielProfond (talk) 23:56, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Tempête / tempette
Oui, les Gaspésiens prononcent en effet «tempette», tout comme les Français de France. Je pense que les gens de la ville de Québec prononcent aussi «tempette»… Vive les différences! :)

Jean Lapierre, un ancien politicien (ministre au fédéral), est originaire des Îles de la Madeleine (Québec). Il a une chronique chaque jour vers 17:10 à 98,5 FM. En l’écoutant attentivement, on remarque qu’il ne prononce pas tout à fait comme les gens de Montréal (mais il prononce tempête, je pense). Ses «oi», entre autres, sont… indescriptibles! ;-)

Disambiguation link notification for October 17
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French questions at the Reference Desk
You've had a lot of questions about the French Language at the reference desk. You may be interested in visiting a page at French Wikipedia that may suit your needs even more, fr:Projet:Langues/Café des linguistes is in French, and will attract people who speak French natively and have an academic interest in French linguistics. Does that help you out? -- Jayron  32  21:35, 18 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I am here for the same reason. Your questions could be solved by a simple Google search. OsmanRF34 (talk) 01:22, 19 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, if you've been blocked on French Wikipedia, you should probably not have done something you did. I'm not sure what else to do to help you then... -- Jayron  32  02:33, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Talking about you [here]
Check it out. OsmanRF34 (talk) 15:59, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Questions sur la page de référence
Bonjour,

Je vous écris parce que je remarque que vous avez demandé beaucoup de questions sur la page de réference. Je crois que vous aurez plus de succès si vous commencerez vos enquêtes par cherchez vous-même. Sur les deux Wikipédias, il y a une boîte de recherche, et vous pouvez lire sur ces sujets.


 * Aide pour chercher dans le Wikipédia français: w:fr:Aide:Recherche
 * English Wikipedia search help: Help:Searching

Je vous conseille d'essayer d'abord à chercher sur l'internet, soit ici à Wikipédia, soit à Google, soit à Youtube, et puis si vous ne pouvez pas trouver de solution, nous pouvons essayer à vous aider sur la page de référence. Si vous ne nous demandez que les questions dont vous n'avez pas réussi à trouver de réponses, nous aurons plus de temps à répondre, et vous aurez probablement des meilleures discussions autour de la problématique. En tout cas, je vous conseillerais que la page de référence n'était pas créée comme un remplacement d'un moteur de recherche.

Si vous avez des questions concernant comment rechercher, vous pouvez me contacter sur ma page de discussion; français marche bien si c'est plus facile pour vous, et j'essayerai de vous aider.

Falconus p t   c 16:35, 21 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Je suis d'accord. Il faut que tu cherches les reponses de tes questions toi-meme, et si non, au moins parler avec un professeur qui serve a une université pres de toi.  Nous ne pouvons pas repondre a chaque question que tu aurais.  Tu sais ce que c'est passé avec toi dans le wikipedia francais.  Je te le dis comme ami. μηδείς (talk) 04:08, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Warning
Let me give you a clear warning that if you continue to ask useless questions at the Reference desks, I will ask for you to be blocked from editing. Looie496 (talk) 16:34, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

New message in help desk
You have at least one new message here --Tito Dutta (talk) 23:26, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Alveolar trill
Can you do an alveolar trill? I can, but it takes so much practice. Johnny Au (talk/contributions) 00:07, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Fête (talk) 00:25, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Well, I do, but only in "broad"/joualisant pronunciation. Usually it's a... well, I think it's a long near-open near-front vowel, so I guess ? Although of course I hear it much closer to than to /a/. Circéus (talk) 17:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know about "raine" (misspelling?), but "reine" has the same vowel as "fête" for me. Circéus (talk) 17:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Sadly enough I don't any way of recording stuff. Circéus (talk) 17:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * With the short vowel. You know you don't _need_ to start a new section every time. Circéus (talk) 18:00, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm curious: why are you asking all that? For Wiktionary? Circéus (talk) 20:52, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: cà rốt
It depends on the dialect. See the [#Prononciation Vietnamese Wiktionary's pronunciation table]. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 10:50, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

That's how it's pronounced in the northern (Hanoi) dialect, which happens to be the prestige dialect (used even by southerners when singing or giving speeches). It looks like you're polling various Vietnamese speakers due to a disagreement at cà rốt. For the record, there's no such thing as a "Montreal" accent of Vietnamese. Vietnamese have likely immigrated to Montreal from all parts of Vietnam, so you'd probably find a variety of accents there if you listen closely.

The Vietnamese Wiktionary gives a good overview of six major varieties of Vietnamese, but it isn't comprehensive either. For instance, many Saigon residents mix elements of the northern and southern accents because their families came from the north. Indeed, that's why my family pronounces cà rốt as // or //.

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 21:28, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that northern Vietnamese don't pronounce "r" as //, or that they make a singular exception for cà rốt, of all words? Because it's well documented that the northern Vietnamese dialect (as exemplified by formal speech and song) makes no distinction between "d", "gi", and "r". – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 09:25, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: mayonnaise
Sorry, I don't know for sure. In the U.S., I hear people say something like //, but that could just be code-switching into English. Try asking someone who lives in Vietnam. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 08:45, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: garage
Garage is translated as ga ra ([#Prononciation IPA pronunciation table]). If I'm not mistaken, northerners still pronounce the "r" as //, even though it's a loan word. But if you find evidence to the contrary, I'd be happy to fix the Vietnamese Wiktionary's tables accordingly. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 12:31, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: R
Evidence? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 12:36, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: Help

 * ''Moved from

Can you unblock my French Wikipedia please ? Fête (talk) 22:18, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No. You need to go to the French Wikipedia and ask there. According to fr:Wikipédia:Blocage en écriture, you should ask the admin who blocked you or any other admin. jonkerz ♠talk 22:56, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
jonkerz ♠talk 23:12, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: fête
It rhymes with net. --  Denelson83  02:21, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've never heard it pronounced that way. --  Denelson83  02:30, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

File:Qc-caisse.ogg
I don't know any French or Quebecois, but the file description seems reasonable. Deryck C. 02:49, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. It sounds like 雞 (chicken) with an /s/ attached to the end. Deryck C. 03:01, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * "peut-être" doesn't sound like anything in Cantonese. Deryck C. 14:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The syllable is vaguely similar, but there isn't an obvious high-flat or high-falling tone contour to make it sound like 低 dai1 ("low"). Deryck C. 15:16, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Fête
Not exactly. Fai1 (煇) has a phonetic value of /fɐi˥/ but the example of Quebecois "fête" you showed me seems to be /fɐɪt/. In contrast, "caisse" seems to be /kɐis/. Are you trying to redraw the boundaries of Quebecois phonology? Deryck C. 15:33, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Also peut-être seems to be /pœ'tɐɪtɾ/. So the boundary seems to be ê = /ɐɪ/ and ai = /ɐi/. Deryck C. 15:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Kung fu
No. Even the British English kung-fu sounds more like Cantonese than Quebecois. Deryck C. 04:54, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

yes I do
I do feel konfu has been pronounced like chinese in that french vedio  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamin Jiperus (talk • contribs) 03:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Fête/fight
Le français n'est pas ma langue maternelle, mais je comprend ce que tu veux dire. Les voyelles du français québécois diffèrent souvent de celles du français parisien. C'est tout à fait évident lorsque l'on entend un québécois parler. En fait je suis pas certain pourquoi tu poses ces questions, puisque tu sais sans doute les bonnes réponses, même si les anglophones ne les savent pas... Adam Bishop (talk) 04:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * But the infobox isn't describing the pronunciation. I reverted it and will continue to do so until an edit summary is provided to explain or a discussion is stared on the talk page. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:10, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: cherry
cherry. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 07:44, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!


Johnny Au (talk/contributions) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

quebecois is always so funny：）
that's the difference — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamin Jiperus (talk • contribs) 21:41, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: radio
No. "Radio" is translated as ra-đi-ô, rađiô, or (more formally) truyền thanh. The Vietnamese Wikipedia and other websites often avoid phonetic respellings of English words these days, so radio is also common as a stylistic choice in writing. However, it is still pronounced as ra-đi-ô: //, //, //, etc. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 06:49, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: pronunciation
And English speakers "mispronounce" the words Paris ("Pah-rhee") and Quebec ("Kwuh-beck"). We even write our mispellings (e.g., "baloney" for bologna). It is what it is. While I certainly agree that "Oa-sinh-tơn" isn't a correct pronunciation of the name in English, it is considered correct in Vietnamese. For comparison, the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Vietnam is very systematic in its use of respelling – not a single entry is written in a foreign alphabet. The entry on Washington, D.C. includes words like Oasinhtơn (not "Oásinhthần"), Capitơn (not "Cápiđồ"), and Côlumbia (not "Khờlâmbia").

To be clear, I'm not a fan of these lossy respellings. The Vietnamese Wikipedia gives respellings not as a guide to pronunciation, but as an aide to people who learned them in school. We want them to find Washington, even if they only know Oasinhtơn. But if you insist on accurate pronunciation guides like "oá-sinh-tần", they should only go after well-known respellings like Oa-sinh-tơn. (And really, if we're being pedantic, you'd need to cite a source.)

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Yep, pretty much! Good luck telling millions of monolingual Vietnamese speakers to use the colonial language instead. I own a very nice English-Vietnamese dictionary by Lê Bá Khanh and Lê Bá Kông that includes the kinds of respellings you're advocating (e.g, "kháo bòi"). But that only makes sense in a dictionary, not an encyclopedia. If you want to add these respellings to the Vietnamese Wiktionary, please do so! Just keep existing content in place. Here's an overview of the Encyclopedic Dictionary of Vietnam respellings, by the way. As you can see, it's a lot of work to make a consistent respelling system, which is why the Vietnamese Wikipedia has only included the most common respellings (that is, the ones people actually use). – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:44, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

So? The French translation of "thanksgiving" is action de grâce, right? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 00:41, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Fête (talk) 01:08, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: xe buýt
I've heard people say both, but it's entirely possible that is nothing but a spelling pronunciation. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:11, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: fête
Sorry, I don't speak French, and I've never been to Quebec. I'd rather not opine one way or another. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 01:19, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: xǎng
No. "Gasoline" is just xăng. Maybe you're thinking of cây xăng (gas station)? – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:39, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh, ét-xăng is the other way to say "gasoline" in Vietnamese, but xăng is a lot more common – ét-xăng sounds downright pretentious. It's true that Vietnamese tends to drop syllables when borrowing words from other languages, a longstanding practice in both Vietnamese and Chinese:


 * Asia: Greek Ασία &rarr; Chinese 亞細亞洲 (Vietnamese Á Tế Á châu) &rarr; Chinese 亞洲 (Vietnamese Á châu)
 * America: Latin America &rarr; Japanese 亞米利加 (Vietnamese Á Mễ Lợi Gia) &rarr; Chinese 美利堅 (Vietnamese Mỹ Lợi Kiên) &rarr; Chinese 美 (Vietnamese Mỹ)
 * Incidentally, America was at one point written as Ma Ly Căn (from the English American) or Nhã Di Lý (from the French États-Unis).

In fact, dropping syllables is a grammatical feature (see Isolating language). The word for "peace treaty" is made by compounding parts of words:


 * hòa ước (peace treaty) =
 * hòa bình (peace) +
 * hiệp ước (treaty) =
 * hiệp định (agreement) +
 * điều ước

Vietnamese speakers are used to dropping syllables, in foreign and native words alike. For us to say that Vietnamese "should" not drop syllables in foreign words... it's a little presumptuous, don't you think?

– Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:44, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Avertissement
Bonjour Fête,

Je t'envoie ce message parce que tu es bloqué à cette heure sur trois projets de la Wikimedia Foundation, dont deux indéfiniment : sur le Wiktionnaire en français et sur Wikipédia en chinois pour insertion de faux contenu répétée dans les pages et sur Wikipédia en français pour harcèlement de contributeurs.

Je t'invite donc à prendre connaissance des règles des wikis auxquels tu contribues pour que cela n'arrive plus, afin que cette série de blocages prenne fin. Si les plaintes continuent, nous nous verront forcés de procéder à un blocage global de ton compte. J'espère cependant ne jamais avoir à en arriver là. N'hésite pas à me demander de l'aide si besoin est, ou si tu ne comprends pas pourquoi tu as été bloqué sur les projets en question.

Cordialement, -- Quentinv57 19:14, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Talk-back (audio)
~E : 74.60.29.141 (talk) 22:15, 29 December 2012 (UTC) Update:74.60.29.141 (talk) 01:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I left a message over here → User_talk:74.60.29.141

Talkback
Salvidrim!  09:56, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Salvidrim!  16:53, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

December 2012
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 72 hours for persistent disruptive editing. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. King of &hearts;   &diams;   &clubs;  &spades; 19:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Help:IPA for French
Hi Fête, when you come back, please comment on the discussion, Help talk:IPA for French. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 23:59, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

مايونيز
Here is a pronunciation of the word مايونيز. hope this is ok .--Adamsa123 (talk) 20:36, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

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