User talk:FClef/Archive 1 (14 June 2006 - 31 August 2007)

Welcomed by RJFJR 20:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Merging Articles

 * To merge in to the same article, put the discussion on the talk page of the article being merged to and put  {{mergeto|  templates on the articles being merged there. Hopefully the main article will get a lot of traffic.  You can put a mergefrom tag on that page so people know to check the talk page. RJFJR 15:58, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear FC
 Phædriel   ♥   tell me  - 08:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC) - helpful ally with edit difficulties

Trooping the Colour
''Buckingham Palace was a long way from FA. Re becoming a portal, he says'': when pages I have worked on have been "portalised" - a message has just appeared on the talk page announcing it. ...if you are keen to see a page there, just track down the appropriate portal, and leave a message on its talk page making the suggestion. Hope this helps. Giano | talk 12:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

you may like to get a peer review and then nominate it as a Good article. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Signatures and references incorporating Talk page

 * Your user page is at User:FClef (User:FClef); your user talk page is at User talk:FClef (User talk:FClef). Similarly, Baden-Powell House has a talk page at Talk:Baden-Powell House.


 * To get a reference to your talk page in your signature, edit your preferences. WP:SIG  WP:SIGHELP.


 * I think that arrow just denotes a link (you are probably using the monobook skin, where I think it is standard. I use the classic skin and don't see it - links are just red or blue.  Again, I think you can change this in your preferences.) -- ALoan (Talk) 13:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

How to revert edits cordially
"Thank you for your edits to /// however, I have reverted your edits. For a further explanation please see the talk page -- FClef 23:09, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Copied from HelpDesk: Footnotes - Aaaaarrrrrgggh !
Re: inline citation: Grenadier Guardsan attempt to generate a footnote as a test case Difficulties:
 * "ref" and "note" templates? Seen WP:IC.  Tried to create a footnote in Grenadier Guards using the "ref" and "note" templates.  The note looks OK, but the ref in the text (in the Marches section) is NOT ok.  Could you please take a look at the article and advise me as to where I'm going wrong on this?


 * The instructions on the How-To page do not clearly distinguish between a Footnote and a Reference.  Are the "ref" and "note" templates actually for footnote use?


 * And finally: in the article Grenadier Guards have I placed the Footnotes, References, See Also and External Links categories in the right order? -- FClef (Talk) 00:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I have put the footnote and references in the cite book format, and used the format for the note in the hope that this is what you were looking for. Please feel free to revert.--Fuhghettaboutit 01:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I refer to your actions on my recent Help Desk query. Thanks very much for using the advanced formats to improve my footnote. That's exactly what I wanted. -- FClef (Talk) 02:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

RE the preceding topic about footnotes, e.g. Grenadier Guards
I think I've got this straight.
 * For the References section, use Citation Templates - WP:CITET
 * For Footnotes, use tags within the text, containing between them the footnote
 * Refer to them at the end in a Notes section with and a second or third one would be   (this uses the slash at the end too, note).  For a relatively simple example, see Corinthian bronze.


 * Good luck! It is a steep learning curve.  Your difficulties with the help pages and the templates are instructive - perhaps it would be worth suggesting amendments? -- ALoan (Talk) 09:43, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * A good place to start would be a message on the talk pages for the help pages that you tried to follow, and the templates that you tried to use, explaining your problems. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

References versus Notes / consequent citation issues
-- FClef (Talk) 12:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Are References basically considered as identical to "Notes"?
 * !!!But I observe in B Pal that the Notes section does not use normal footnote crediting format - it is just used to amplify the text.
 * I see that the cite format employs inversion of first and final names. That's fine for a Bibliography, but in Footnotes the firstname comes first normally and parentheses are used for publishing data  e.g. (London:  John Murray Ltd., 1979)   ...can I alter the order of things when doing the piped links on the cite template OR does it not matter?    OR - see the first  and second bullet point above - should Notes NOT have the full form of the reference, but just use a surname (as Giano does in B PAL)?


 * References are not quite the same thing as notes, although they often merge together.


 * There is little in the way of mandatory practice here. The &lt;ref> system is the easiest way to do footnotes, and many people put their references in the footnotes and put the &lt;references/> tag in the "References" section.  Others like to have proper footnotes (Smith, 1999, page 20) and use the &lt;ref> system for that, putting them in a "Notes" section with separate fully-cited references in a separate "References" section.  Horses for courses.


 * None of the these formats are mandatory (neither &lt;ref>s not the cite format) although some people consider them best practice. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

ISBN no for Olwen Headley book
EdJohnston 20:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC) pointed out the ISBN was wrong and was updated by Rich Farmbrough


 * I suspect the discrepancy is due to the change from SBN (the old UK system) to ISBN, which was done by adding a 0- to the front of the numbers. While not all publishers follow the rules, the correct format according the International ISBN Agency is four groups separated by spaces or dashes.  Spaces break wiki-(ISBN)-links, so dashes are our best option.  Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 20:36 1  September 2006 (GMT).

Flyby etc
If you want to use the Flyby header edit the article delete the redirect that is now there and post your article on top - it will then re-appear under its own name and leave the American flypast as is.

Alternatively use the ceremonial name and I can change the fly past redirect to the new page when its done. Whilst you are working on an article either create it in a working sandbox - I have created this one for you Your sandbox and then paste it as a ready finished article to the new name or use  tag on the article page whilst you are doing it. Let me know what you want to do and I'll help you.

Kind regards Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 07:19, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Sandbox
A present from Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 07:36, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Ceremonial flypasts
The draft article is looking good; I have made a couple of changes, which I hope are okay. Let me know when you want to go live. Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 07:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Flypasts
The Flypast article is looking good - I have altered a couple of headers and put some pictures into a gallery to try and keep them tidy Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 07:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Buckingham Palace Garden
Help from Brookie :) - a will o' the wisp ! (Whisper...) 07:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
thanks for all your support. I have appreciated it. Giano 10:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Buckingham Palace Garden aka "The Garden"?
Queried us of term "The Garden" (I've also posted this message on the discussion page and invited others to comment.) SiGarb | Talk 23:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello again FClef! I can see why you wanted to attract readers to the main Buckingham Palace Garden page from the The Garden Disambiguation page, but really, I think in order for it to qualify it would have to get a few Google hits on the first couple of results pages. An enormous number of gardens, large and small, public and private, are referred to by those who work in them, or live nearby, as "the garden". Or, indeed, "The Garden". The Alnwick Castle garden springs to mind; also RHS Garden Wisley. Another example which has just occurred to me, which ought to be included, is the Garden of Eden!


 * (BTW, I'm not sure that your two candidates for merging should be added to your article: Prom at the Palace and Party at the Palace were, after all, their official titles. You could have a small section on events in the garden, with pointers to the main articles.) And I hope you won't mid if I make a few suggestions about some stylistic points: your section headings are a bit over-capitalised (it should really be "Landscaping, lake and artworks" or perhaps, arguably, "Landscaping, Lake and artworks"); the first mention of the subject in the intro text should be bold (Buckingham Palace Gardens); the first para should be a brief summary of the subject, then the fuller info should come under appropriate headings. I think some dates would be useful in the first mentions of Goring Great Garden, Henry Wise and Aiton. (Nice pic of the old chap on his page!) The first ref to the Queen ought to be wikilinked (the Queen). SiGarb | Talk 19:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Award
Thanks for the award, I only just noticed it, the user page and talk page on a watch list look very similar, and my talk has been quite busy the last few days. Is there a reason other than my computer why the picture won't download? I'm not very good with pictures, Aloan normally has to sort that page out for me! Thanks, it was very kind of you. Giano 14:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: More on BPG
Hi FClef. Well done! I think the Buckingham Palace Garden page looks somewhat better now. I think, to fit in with Wikipedia style, the first paras (before the first subheading) are too numerous and discursive, but apart from that, much improved.

Well spotted on the Aiton pic. I hadn't really read the article, just glanced at the pic, which is nicer than the only one I've seen of William T. I did know they were father and son: the son was one of the founders of the Royal Horticultural Society. You're right, they do really need a page each, as other careless readers could do the same as I did and assume that, because they had typed in William Townsend Aiton, that was whose portrait they were seeing. But, as you say, they'd both be rather tiny articles.

Yes, I live in Lincolnshire. It was still a bit breezy this morning, but the worst winds were yesterday and the night before, when we lost half a large willow tree across the green in front of our house! As to SiGarb, it's just an abbreviated form of my name. SiGarb | Talk 16:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Lord Mayor picture
I've made the changes as you requested. Thanks for letting me know. Glad I could assist with illustrating the article. Diliff  | (Talk)   (Contribs) 23:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Flypast
RJASE1 01:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC) responded on the talk page but did not make the iffy comment.


 * FYI, the article is up for peer review; discussion is at this page. Should be able to get some constructive feedback. I also nominated it as a good article. You probably already know that suggestions will likely be to add some US info and maybe drop some unnecessary stuff that the article can live without.


 * I'm in the US Air Force (was based in Cambridgeshire from 1990-99) - this weekend I'll take a run at including some US aspects in the article without disturbing the UK spelling and style. I think it's got a lot of potential. - RJASE1 05:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I looked at the suggestions at Looper5920's talk page - I defer to his judgement as he has more experience.. Remember, WP:AGF advice on feedback. I'm willing to work with you on addressing the review concerns, and I'm sure it can be done without altering the fundamental nature of the article, or destroying the content you put together. One of the best things about WP:MILHIST is that it's a well-organized project with active, high-standard, peer review, and the advice you get through the process can get your article all the way up to featured-article status. - RJASE1 17:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: flypast peer review
The issue with the article is not a UK imbalance per se, but rather that the "meat" of the topic isn't covered adequately; when that's resolved, the balance should become more reasonable as a consequence.

Of course, it's not a problem if you don't have the materials at hand to expand on some of the areas I mentioned; the great thing about Wikipedia is that somebody that does will eventually come by. The only immediate point here is that these areas are noticeable gaps, so please don't be too upset by the article's failing to advance further up the assessment scale until they get some more coverage.-- Kirill Lokshin 03:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * focus on the content of the article. Kirill Lokshin 03:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This week I started gathering some source material for the USAF version of the practice (regulations, fair use images, etc.) and will probably start assembling it this weekend in my sandbox. I still need to look around for Navy/Marine info - they're big users of the flyover as well, and I think the US Army does it pretty frequently at their ceremonies with helicopters. We can cast about for an RAF or RAAF chap to address the Commonwealth-style military aspects. Also, tomorrow I'll verify that all the inline citations are in the WP:CITE format, if you like - we'll need to do that to eventually reach A-class. - RJASE1 04:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * will keep new material in my sandbox until you have a chance to look at it. It's obvious you're willing to take the lead on the article expansion - consider me your assistant on the US Air Force angle. Have a good one... - RJASE1 05:07, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I wasn't planning on renaming the article myself - that was just brainstorming. I'll keep you posted on the material I dig up. - RJASE1 16:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Trooping the Colours
Wily D 02:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC) and Man vyi 04:57, 27 July 2007 (UTC) helped upload the pic.
 * Thanks, both! :-)    Also planning to write one on Drum Horses, so you see why I needed it.... --FClef  (talk) 16:48, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Summary: We didn't update commons:Commons:Administrators' noticeboard,  so Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 19:19, 5 August 2007 (UTC) uploaded Image:Massed Mounted Band, Trooping the Colour, 16 June 2007.jpg requested deletion of the image Wily uploaded.    —:::Apologised for not "updating" the administrator page and voiced concern that the image uploaded by User:WilyD would be deleted from the article.--FClef  (talk) 02:59, 10 August 2007 (UTC)]]
 * I saw your (apparently unfulfilled) request at commons:Commons:Administrators' noticeboard and fulfilled it (including performing a Flickr Review, which Wily did not do), only to come here and see that Wily had already fulfilled it. In any case, there were then two copies of the same image on Commons.  The one I uploaded had the exact name you requested, Image:Massed Mounted Band, Trooping the Colour, 16 June 2007.jpg, whereas the one Wily uploaded had a shorter name, Image:TroopingTheColours.jpg.  I did what I felt were the responsible things: used the name you actually requested in my post above (the image wasn't yet in the article); requested deletion of Wily's image (per Commons policy of not allowing duplicate images, and because mine was Flickr Reviewed and his wasn't); and notified you of what I had done.  CommonsDelinker actually replaced Wily's image here and in the article two days ago just before Siebrand deleted Wily's image.  Please let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.  Thanks!    — Jeff G. (talk&#124;contribs) 11:34, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Don't worry - the image is still here... Wily D 13:24, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * All's well that ends well! (And at least there's someone else who appreciates my Wace quote) Man vyi 15:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Palace Garden
Removing merge templates on Buckingham Palace Garden. Cheers, Lindsay 07:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)