User talk:FOP2021

August 2021
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to Phoenix, Arizona have been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 23:51, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
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 * The following is the log entry regarding this message: Phoenix, Arizona was changed by FOP2021 (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.867108 on 2021-08-23T23:51:02+00:00

FOP2021, you are invited to the Teahouse!
Please do not add or significantly change content without citing verifiable and reliable sources. Before making any potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. Please review the guidelines at Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Materialscientist (talk) 11:41, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

So, you've just undone everything I've done and I've wasted a few hours of me time.... I have lived in Tullahoma for 22 years. I am a reliable source. Everything I wrote is accurate. How can I edit and add things I know to be true if I can't find someone who wrote an article? Note, the newspaper is right about 50% of the time about anything. FOP2021 (talk) 14:43, 26 August 2021 (UTC)


 * WP:NOR is a non negotiable guideline, FOP2021. 2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 15:24, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions, but in one of your recent edits, it appears that you have added original research, which is against Wikipedia's policies. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and personal experiences—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. Thank you. Llll5032 (talk) 01:15, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Hi Llll5032, actually I believe that section included heavy citation. It included three example articles where he was portrayed as disparaging masks and vaccines to show that was done. Note I didn't say he was truthfully portrayed or falsely portrayed. I then linked to a blog article to show what he actually said about the matter. I know blog articles aren't normally sufficient sources, but in this case it is HIS blog. What better source of what he said and believed is there than his actual words? Some of the articles cited actually reference this same blog article. Thoughts? FOP2021 (talk) 01:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding, FOP2021. Wikipedia usually considers secondary sources to be more reliable than primary sources like his blog. Blogs may be considered WP:SELFSOURCE, and "Use of self-sourced material should be de minimis; the great majority of any article must be drawn from independent sources". WP:PSTS says, "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources." If you think a reliable secondary source has misinterpreted a specific fact, the Talk page can be a good place to raise the question. Sometimes the wording of the article misinterprets a secondary source, and you can change the wording. But the article itself shouldn't argue with secondary sources unless another reliable source later says expressly that the secondary sources are wrong. WP:PSTS bans "original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors". Also see WP:VNT. Llll5032 (talk) 03:00, 30 August 2021 (UTC)


 * P.S.: The paid obituary and the show page are also WP:SELFSOURCE and reliance on them should be minimal. The WP:SOURCETYPES article has examples of better, reliable secondary sources. 04:10, 30 August 2021 (UTC) Llll5032 (talk) 04:11, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

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Beginner's Guide
FOP2021, Llll5032 is giving you excellent information. Your interest in editing Wikipedia is to be applauded, but it is best to learn how to edit for an encyclopedia before you jump in. I encourage you to spend time researching Wikipedia policies and guidelines like the ones Llll5032 provided. It will keep you from becoming frustrated or wasting your time, as you mentioned above. Another good beginner source is Beginner's Guide to Wikipedia. Your enthusiasm is commendable and I believe you are going to make an excellent editor. Call on me any time you have a question. I am happy to help. God bless and happy editing! MarydaleEd (talk) 04:33, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Assistance with an article
FOP2021, in the Phil Valentine article you had language regarding Valentine's work with another person named Bozeman. The language is "There he began working with producer and long-time friend, John Bozeman. Bozeman, who went by the name "Johnny B" on the show, would go on to work with Valentine as producer and side-kick for the rest of Valentine's career until his death more than twenty years later." I have looked everywhere, including in the source you provided, and cannot find reference to someone named Bozeman. Can you tell me where you got that information so I can keep it in the article with a proper source? Thank you. God bless and happy editing! MarydaleEd (talk) 22:12, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Improper editor behavior
Please refrain from sarcastic or disrespectful comments when editing for Wikipedia as dictated by Wikipedia policy WP:CIVIL. Civility is one of the five pillars on which Wikipedia was established. Your comments on the Talk page of Phil Valentine are not in keeping with the collaborative atmosphere we nurture at Wikipedia. I realize you are a new editor and it can be challenging at first. Your comments reflect that you lack a basic understanding of the requirements of writing and editing for an encyclopedia, but you can change that. Both Llll5032 and I have provided you with study tools to help you get off to a good start as a Wikipedia editor. I encourage you to work those guides. My offer to assist you is still open and I am certain any other experienced editor would also be available to answer questions. Instead of making sarcastic comments when you are frustrated or don't understand what we do, I encourage you to ask the editor who made the edits you don't understand and allow that person to provide clarification. We are happy to help. God bless and happy editing. MarydaleEd (talk) 22:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Advocacy or Conflict of Interest Warning
I want to caution you against editing topics you cannot cover neutrally, specifically, the Phil Valentine article. Since you are new, I will cover for you some policies and guidelines that apply here. In Wikipedia, content must be written in a balanced, unimpassioned manner. "As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia's mission is to provide the public with articles that summarize accepted knowledge, written neutrally and sourced reliably." (WP:CONFLICT) Wikipedia policy states "Information should not be included in this encyclopedia solely because it is true or useful. A Wikipedia article should not be a complete exposition of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject." (WP:NOTEVERYTHING) Given your stated enthusiasm on this subject's Talk page and the argumentative comments you have made, some of which have been rude and sarcastic, it has come to my attention that even your username, "FOP2021," which probably stands for "Friends of Phil" or "Friend of Phil," indicates that you are violating Wikipedia's Conflict of Interest (WP:CONFLICT) guidelines, or at the least, Wikipedia's Advocacy (WP:ADVOCACY) guidelines. I encourage you to make no further edits to the Phil Valentine article. Thank you. MarydaleEd (talk) 02:56, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

ANI notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 2601:188:180:B8E0:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 17:43, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

September 2021
 You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for persistently making disruptive edits. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page:. Bbb23 (talk) 01:06, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Not asking for an unblock, but do want to apologize for and explain my statement in the Phil Valentine talk page. When I wrote "You are essentially calling him a Nazi," I was using the universal "you." I did not intend to accuse the particular editor of calling anyone a Nazi. I apologize to that editor for my poorly chosen words and any hurt they caused. I'd also like to apologize to MarydaleEd since she was obviously offended. I was honestly trying to open a dialog and get viewpoints from the group on whether the term being used was appropriate despite it being used in the source. To me it was a very severe term that the source included in a statement that was not backed up by evidence in the article. I wanted to see if others understood the term differently or otherwise felt the term appropriate. Again, I apologize for any offense caused by my poor wording. FOP2021 (talk) 03:01, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Yesterday upon the stair I saw a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. How I wish he'd go away. FOP2021 (talk) 13:01, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
 * FOP2021, no apology to me is necessary, as I was not offended. Your inappropriate actions were not limited to that one statement. You clearly had an agenda and you kept several editors busy for weeks reverting almost every, if not every, edit you made, and not just on the Valentine article. You were warned numerous times and you chose to continue your inappropriate and disruptive editing. You joined Wikipedia for one reason, to put forth your own personal opinions. You cared nothing about what is best for Wikipedia and its articles. You never understood, and still do not understand, what Wikipedia is or how it works, and you made no effort to learn even though several editors provided you with valuable resources to help you. You didn't want to learn because that didn't fit with your agenda. Those of us who have been editing for Wikipedia for years value Wikipedia as an institution and we work hard to improve it and protect it, all on a volunteer basis. I truly believe that you didn't think you had to heed the warnings because you thought there was nothing anyone could do about it. Please understand that everything I have written here concerns what you did, not who you are. I am concerned only about your actions and am not attacking you personally. I post this only because I fear your apology is insincere, since you have made many apologies but never changed your behavior, and that your apology is an effort to lay the groundwork to being reinstated, which I would oppose. MarydaleEd (talk) 02:50, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Marydale, thats really not fair. If you look back at my edits, including that for the Phil Valentine story, I think you'll see that I made meaningful contributions to that article and others. I found unique sources and much of the info I found is still there. A good portion of the early life section in particular is from my efforts.

I agree that when I started I didn't understand the second person source rules. Yes, I complained after seeing an hour of work erased, but then I went and found second person sources and did my best to follow the rules. I still disagree with the policy in cases where you're talking about someone's views, for example whether Phil Valentine was against vaccinations. What source could possibly be better than a person's own words from his blog or his radio show when you're reporting an what beliefs a person espoused? Ever heard of the telephone game? As of right now the article incorrectly says he was against vaccines, but there was hours of audio where he clearly said those who were vulnerable should get vaccinated, and that they should stay away from people. He just questioned if those who had covid and recovered or the fairly young and otherwise healthy, as he felt he was, should be vaccinated. Yes, he died, but if there is a 1 in 1000 chance of dying, about 1000 out of a million will die. Both statements are true.

My apology was sincere. I didn't mean to upset you or anyone. I was asking a real question whether the term being used was appropriate. If that behavior results in editors being banned without even a request for an explanation from the accused, you won't have much help at Wikipedia. I've got a third book coming out, a blog, and a full-time job, so I've got plenty to do, so I'm not very concerned about it. I truly wish you the best. God bless. FOP2021 (talk) 13:06, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

And, by the way, I like the Oxford comma. It makes thing clearer, looks good, and matches natural speech pattern. FOP2021 (talk) 13:22, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

FOP2021 (talk) 13:25, 23 September 2021 (UTC)Sorry about forgetting the indents.

I also wrote the entire initial radio career section, which another editor pointed out was really needed since it was absurd that there was nothing on his radio career, that used the bio from his station's website and info from his eulogy, which Llll5042 tried to erase since she also considered this primary source, but you yourself said the bio was probably ok in this case since his station was unlikely to lie about his career. Much of that section, minus info on awards, was kept. (Sure, I guess he got syndicated across the country which maybe 5% do, but we can't believe he won any awards or had good ratings.) And the reason it was important that there were 3 smashed windows in the tax revolt, as reported in the secondary source, is that it gives the reader context. As it is, it sounds like it was Minneapolis or Portland where the crowd destroyed the place since it just says they"smashed windows." Sometimes a few extry words are important.

OK, I'm done. (And I just realized that, writing this on a phone as much of my comments were, I don't have the ability to indent this comment.) FOP2021 (talk) 11:22, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Suggestions for Wikipedua Admins: 1. Create an Intro training document with the basic rules and require new editors read through it before they edit. Yes, you invite people to the TreeHouse, but they have no idea what that is. 2. Add code to indent replies to the mobile interface. You sign automatically, why not indent? FOP2021 (talk) 11:35, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Sitting here in the airport, I see teenagers still wearing masks. Phil Valentine used to say this was like having paper seatbelts and telling people they were better than nothing. How many died because they thought masks protected them when they should have hid away with their underlying health conditions that made them vulnerable to covid? How many young people who have no risk are now psychologically damaged by the mask mandates and propaganda? You broke the world. Nice job! FOP2021 (talk) 13:31, 26 June 2022 (UTC)