User talk:Fabartus/unicode bug

File: user_talk:fabartus/unicode_bug

Purp: Document effects seen in IE6 and Firefox while yelling for help!

Diff: 'This version after attempting to eliminate spurious verticle whitespace'' due to indentation in email editor 'source edit' window (Outlook Express, V-6)... See prior version too: user_talk:fabartus/unicode_bug_alt.

Contact targets: User: Patrick, User: CesarB and User: CBDunkerson (by direct email)

Note: I massaged this as best I could using notepad, particularly to cut down unnecessary verticle whitespace caused by 'space preceded commands, but one effect is much of the text that was WYSIWIG copies is now in grey boxed offseted format. Pre-space truncated version is User talk:fabartus/unicode_bug_alt, which is less this note and the intervening preview. Both miss wide the message sense and flow of the full WYSIWYG email version formatting I'm about to send to Conrad. //Fra nkB 17:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This is HTML paste-up: of observed problem behaviors, apparently caused by changes installed by user Patrick in space and ported by me to indent, alas, including to the commons versions... where I originated the 'space' test this morning to test other manifestations I noticed on article spaces (or talks?).

The Email
 Help!   This all apparently begins with Patrick's changes to to incorporate ... Only God knows how many pages are suddenly 'broken' between en.wikipedia and the commons! (At least should mainly be talks, at this juncture!) <FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Help! Mysterious font/formatting affects attacking my sanity! (See note below on 'my IE6 browser' paranoia before acting! Scrtch that--make my Windows XP? Also evincing in Firefox!)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>re: ( <A href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Space">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Space</A> )</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Talk (test to check another observed occurence):</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>==Demo/Test==<BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 1_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 2_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 3_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 4_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 5_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 6_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 7_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 8_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 9_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 10_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 11_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 12_z</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>-Somethings broken! // <B>Fra</B> nkB 17:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Gives:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4> <H2>Demo/Test</H2> <OL> <LI><B>...</B> x y 1_ <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN>z <LI><B>...</B> xy 2_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 3_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 4_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 5_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 6_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 7_z

<LI><B>...</B> xy 8_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 9_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 10_z

<LI><B>...</B> xy 11_z

<LI><B>...</B> xy 12_z </LI></OL> <P>-Somethings broken! // <B><A title=User:Fabartus href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fabartus">Fra</A></B><A title="User talk:Fabartus" href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fabartus"><FONT color=green>nkB</FONT></A> 15:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)</P> <P>where we damn well shouldn't be seeing xy, nor z!!!</P> <P><FONT size=5><U><EM><STRONG>My browser???</STRONG></EM></U> <EM>(paranoia setting in!)</EM></FONT></P> <P>Checking on wikipedia... on my talk I'm getting this (note the     and  at end...</P> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Ah, Grasshopper, but </FONT> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><I>'No day is wasted when  one learns something new' —</I>Polgara </FONT></FONT></DD></DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>On the Commonwealth vs North  American English spellings...     If  we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least  dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of  British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble  knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really  think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so  I just use whatever I put down without typo's. </FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Better for the stress, and the productivity. (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging matters, in top physical shape,  just had an emergency heart procedure despite innumerable lectures and his  own exemplary example of things like commuting to work 3X a week by bicycle  (over the short 38 miles of commute!). If all that exercise and healthy diet  didn't help him, the rest of us should by rights be doomed! But stress...) <B>The job stress is a trump card.</B> This is a real eye-opener to me and a shock to everyone that knows him at all! Moral: reduce stress always! </FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Have you seen one of the so called 'Manglish' (Mangled English) humor emails that circulate from time to time where the letters are really switched around in the words, yet the paragraph's are entirely understandable? If that works (scientific fact, not just a trick joke in some carefully contrived text) in the brain to extract the comprehension, I'm sure not gonna waste my time worrying about an 's' vs. a 'z', and extra vowel, etc.     Maybe once we get WYSIWIG editing we'll all have the same spell checkers. I rarely resort to one, so I'm sure my composition behaviours includes many </FONT><A title="Commonwealth English" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_English"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>commonwealth English</FONT></A><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> spellings. Some days I'm lucky to get the syntax in links correct! Shrug! </FONT> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>('See this' msg post to )</FONT>

<HR> </DD></DL></DD></DL></DD> <DD>However in 'preview', vice 'saved' display mode, note the diffs one 'save click' away in time!</DD> <DD> <HR> </DD></DL></DD></DL></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Ah, Grasshopper, but <DL> <DD><I>'No day is wasted when one learns something new' —</I>Polgara </DD></DL> <DD>On the Commonwealth vs North American English spellings...<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> If we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so I just use whatever I put down without typo's. </DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Better for the stress, and the productivity.<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging matters, in top physical shape, just had an emergency heart procedure  despite innumerable lectures and his own exemplary example of things like  commuting to work 3X a week by bicycle (over the short 38 miles of  commute!). If all that exercise and healthy diet didn't help him, the rest  of us should by rights be doomed! But stress...)<BR>  <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> <B>The job stress is a trump card.</B> This is a real eye-opener to me and a shock to everyone that knows him at all! Moral: reduce stress always! </DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Have you seen one of the so called 'Manglish' (Mangled English) humor emails that circulate from time to time where the letters are really switched around in the words, yet the paragraph's are entirely understandable? If that works (scientific fact, not just a trick joke in some carefully contrived text) in the brain to extract the comprehension, I'm sure not gonna waste my time worrying about an 's' vs. a 'z', and extra vowel, etc.<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> Maybe once we get WYSIWIG editing we'll all have the same spell checkers. I rarely resort to one, so I'm sure my composition behaviours includes many <A title="Commonwealth English" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_English">commonwealth English</A> spellings. Some days I'm lucky to get the syntax in links correct! Shrug! <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>'See this to <A title="User talk:CmdrObot" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CmdrObot">CmdrObot</A> </DD></DL></DD></DL></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>I'm also now seeing a square rectangle where all the     evince in this 'unicoded' version pasted herein to Outlook Express. Checking that by edit/preview on Firefox we get:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Ah, Grasshopper, but <DL> <DD><I>'No day is wasted when one learns something new' —</I>Polgara</DD></DL></DD> <DD>On the Commonwealth vs North American English spellings...<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> If we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so I just use whatever I put down without typo's.</DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DL> <DD>Better for the stress, and the productivity.<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging matters, in top physical shape, just had an emergency heart procedure  despite innumerable lectures and his own exemplary example of things like  commuting to work 3X a week by bicycle (over the short 38 miles of  commute!). If all that exercise and healthy diet didn't help him, the rest  of us should by rights be doomed! But stress...)</DD></DL></DL> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>More square rectangles for me. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>I just reverted Patrick's guts in     on en.wikipedia, in preview I now see:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Ah, Grasshopper, but </FONT> <DL> <DD><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><I>'No day is wasted when one learns something new' —</I>Polgara</FONT></FONT></DD></DL></DD> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>On the Commonwealth vs North American English spellings...<BR>   If we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so I just use whatever I put down without typo's.</FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Better for the stress, and the productivity.<BR>   (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging  matters,</FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Which Has <FONT color=#0000ff>NO Squares showing up...</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>And is also behaving properly in both browsers outside edit-preview. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Frank</FONT></DIV>

Nowiki version

 * paste up yourselves?

<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Help!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>This all apparently begins with Patrick's changes to to incorporate ... Only God knows how many pages are suddenly 'broken' between en.wikipedia and the commons! (At least should mainly be talks, at this juncture!)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Help! Mysterious font/formatting affects attacking my sanity! (See note below on 'my IE6 browser' paranoia before acting! Scrtch that--make my Windows XP? Also evincing in Firefox!)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>re: ( <A href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Space">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Space</A> )</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Talk (test to check another observed occurence):</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>==Demo/Test==<BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 1_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 2_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 3_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 4_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 5_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 6_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 7_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 8_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 9_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... xy 10_z <BR>#&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 11_z <BR>#'''&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;... '''xy 12_z</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>-Somethings broken! // <B>Fra</B> nkB 17:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Gives:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4> <H2>Demo/Test</H2> <OL> <LI><B>...</B> x y 1_ <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN>z <LI><B>...</B> xy 2_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 3_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 4_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 5_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 6_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 7_z

<LI><B>...</B> xy 8_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 9_z <LI><B>...</B> xy 10_z

<LI><B>...</B> xy 11_z

<LI><B>...</B> xy 12_z </LI></OL> <P>-Somethings broken! // <B><A title=User:Fabartus href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fabartus">Fra</A></B><A title="User talk:Fabartus" href="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fabartus"><FONT color=green>nkB</FONT></A> 15:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)</P> <P>where we damn well shouldn't be seeing xy, nor z!!!</P> <P><FONT size=5><U><EM><STRONG>My browser???</STRONG></EM></U> <EM>(paranoia setting in!)</EM></FONT></P> <P>Checking on wikipedia... on my talk I'm getting this (note the     and  at end...</P> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Ah, Grasshopper, but </FONT> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><I>'No day is wasted when  one learns something new' —</I>Polgara </FONT></FONT></DD></DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>On the Commonwealth vs North  American English spellings...     If  we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least  dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of  British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble  knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really  think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so  I just use whatever I put down without typo's. </FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Better for the stress, and the productivity. (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging matters, in top physical shape,  just had an emergency heart procedure despite innumerable lectures and his  own exemplary example of things like commuting to work 3X a week by bicycle  (over the short 38 miles of commute!). If all that exercise and healthy diet  didn't help him, the rest of us should by rights be doomed! But stress...) <B>The job stress is a trump card.</B> This is a real eye-opener to me and a shock to everyone that knows him at all! Moral: reduce stress always! </FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Have you seen one of the so called 'Manglish' (Mangled English) humor emails that circulate from time to time where the letters are really switched around in the words, yet the paragraph's are entirely understandable? If that works (scientific fact, not just a trick joke in some carefully contrived text) in the brain to extract the comprehension, I'm sure not gonna waste my time worrying about an 's' vs. a 'z', and extra vowel, etc.     Maybe once we get WYSIWIG editing we'll all have the same spell checkers. I rarely resort to one, so I'm sure my composition behaviours includes many </FONT><A title="Commonwealth English" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_English"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>commonwealth English</FONT></A><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> spellings. Some days I'm lucky to get the syntax in links correct! Shrug! </FONT> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>('See this' msg post to )</FONT>

<HR> </DD></DL></DD></DL></DD> <DD>However in 'preview', vice 'saved' display mode, note the diffs one 'save click' away in time!</DD> <DD> <HR> </DD></DL></DD></DL></DIV> <DIV></FONT> </DIV> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Ah, Grasshopper, but <DL> <DD><I>'No day is wasted when one learns something new' —</I>Polgara </DD></DL> <DD>On the Commonwealth vs North American English spellings...<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> If we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so I just use whatever I put down without typo's. </DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Better for the stress, and the productivity.<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging matters, in top physical shape, just had an emergency heart procedure  despite innumerable lectures and his own exemplary example of things like  commuting to work 3X a week by bicycle (over the short 38 miles of  commute!). If all that exercise and healthy diet didn't help him, the rest  of us should by rights be doomed! But stress...)<BR>  <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> <B>The job stress is a trump card.</B> This is a real eye-opener to me and a shock to everyone that knows him at all! Moral: reduce stress always! </DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Have you seen one of the so called 'Manglish' (Mangled English) humor emails that circulate from time to time where the letters are really switched around in the words, yet the paragraph's are entirely understandable? If that works (scientific fact, not just a trick joke in some carefully contrived text) in the brain to extract the comprehension, I'm sure not gonna waste my time worrying about an 's' vs. a 'z', and extra vowel, etc.<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> Maybe once we get WYSIWIG editing we'll all have the same spell checkers. I rarely resort to one, so I'm sure my composition behaviours includes many <A title="Commonwealth English" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_English">commonwealth English</A> spellings. Some days I'm lucky to get the syntax in links correct! Shrug! <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>'See this to <A title="User talk:CmdrObot" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:CmdrObot">CmdrObot</A> </DD></DL></DD></DL></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>I'm also now seeing a square rectangle where all the     evince in this 'unicoded' version pasted herein to Outlook Express. Checking that by edit/preview on Firefox we get:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD>Ah, Grasshopper, but <DL> <DD><I>'No day is wasted when one learns something new' —</I>Polgara</DD></DL></DD> <DD>On the Commonwealth vs North American English spellings...<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> If we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so I just use whatever I put down without typo's.</DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DL> <DD>Better for the stress, and the productivity.<BR> <SPAN class=Unicode> </SPAN> (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging matters, in top physical shape, just had an emergency heart procedure  despite innumerable lectures and his own exemplary example of things like  commuting to work 3X a week by bicycle (over the short 38 miles of  commute!). If all that exercise and healthy diet didn't help him, the rest  of us should by rights be doomed! But stress...)</DD></DL></DL> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>More square rectangles for me. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>I just reverted Patrick's guts in     on en.wikipedia, in preview I now see:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Ah, Grasshopper, but </FONT> <DL> <DD><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><I>'No day is wasted when one learns something new' —</I>Polgara</FONT></FONT></DD></DL></DD> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>On the Commonwealth vs North American English spellings...<BR>   If we all go around fiddling with sections, such alternating or at least dis-synchronous spellings will inevitably creep in. Since I've read a ton of British writers of history and SF over the years, I frankly have trouble knowing whether my usage is one or the other origination unless I really think on it... which makes no sense as the message matters, not the form, so I just use whatever I put down without typo's.</FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL> <DL> <DD> <DL> <DD><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Better for the stress, and the productivity.<BR>   (My health-nut brother, a researcher in aging  matters,</FONT></DD></DL></DD></DL></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Which Has <FONT color=#0000ff>NO Squares showing up...</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>And is also behaving properly in both browsers outside edit-preview. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=4>Frank</FONT></DIV>