User talk:Factfinderrr

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Happy editing! Cheers, SerChevalerie (talk) 15:05, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

July 2024
Hi Factfinderrr! I noticed that you recently marked an edit as minor&#32;at South Asian Canadians that may not have been. "Minor edit" has a specific definition on Wikipedia—it refers only to superficial edits that could never be the subject of a dispute, such as typo corrections or reverting obvious vandalism. Any edit that changes the meaning of an article is not a minor edit, even if it only concerns a single word. Thank you. Meters (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did at South Asian Canadians, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. If you only meant to make a test edit, please use your sandbox for that. Thank you. Meters (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi Meters, noted, I will take care to cite my reasons for removal henceforth. I maintain my original position for my removal and I'd like you to restore the deletion. Pashto is incorrectly cited as a south asian language. Statistics Canada does not include Pashto in its scope of South asian languages. See: https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3VD.pl?Function=getVD&TVD=1420413&CVD=1420466&CPV=16.07&CST=15052022&CLV=1&MLV=3. I'm happy to supply further sources as well. Factfinderrr (talk) 10:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I have restored your removal of "Pashto". I agree that Afghans are not classified as "South Asian" by StatsCan and thus we don't' need to list Pashto.
 * Are you the same editor as user:The First Legionnaire? Meters (talk) 03:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hey Meters, Thank you so so much, for being fair and objective in your response I really appreciate it!! I'd like to also mention some other points:
 * 1. I noticed you reverted some of my other edits for instance my addition of "persian" to the word "dari"- I added persian to "Dari," because dari is a dialect not a language. The article holistically, implies that dari is a language, when in fact it is a dialect of persian. The english equivalent would be me writing Canadian for everything, instead of "Canadian English," in this case Canadian being dari and english being persian. The articles first line also refers to the full name of dari being dari persian, therefore it is not inaccurate to call dari, dari persian. Dari would just be the shortened version. For clarity and accuracy for non persian speakers, thats why I chose to add persian to the abbreviated name.Can you restore the deletion?
 * 2. I noticed you also reverted my edit to the dari proverbs book written by a US Navy captain. Given the casualties that Afghans have endured during the US- Afghan war, I thought it was unethical and in poor taste to highlight the works of a US army personnel on a page about Afghan culture. Thats why I replaced it with Rumi- an actual Afghan Poet, and a well renowned one. The Navy captains book is still included in the citation if someone would like to read other sources, but as for the main body I strongly believe a page dedicated to Afghan culture should showcase and highlight actual Afghans. Would you be able to restore this deletion, please?
 * 3. No, I am not the First Legionnaire editor- but I have a request (sorry! I know this is so long already, and if you're still reading thank you!) When I read through the edit history of the south asian canadians article I too also noticed the back and forth between the legionnaire user and "thebritishasian." Thebritishasian user, has a pattern and history of reverting edits and spreading misinformation to align with their own personal biases. They consistently reverted the legionairres edits to that page, despite being given multiple citations that supported claims afghans are not south asian. It was only until I came and provided the Stats canada source that he halted his reverts- of only that page that is.
 * Thebritishasian then proceeded to go through my edit history and revert all the edits I had made, despite me painstakingly finding sources to substantiate my enhancements. They provided no sources to validate their reverts. Given their history of harassing editors, when they correct misinformation, I believe "thebritishasian"user is acting spitefully, and not in good faith. Their credibility and validity as an editor is cause for concern. I am not 100% versed in terms of use of being an editor, but surely their irresponsible behaviour is in breach and violation of terms of use? I can continue to go back and forth with reverting and undoing edits made by thebritishasian, however, to readers of these pages how will it look if these articles are being altered daily because of the persistent personal vendetta of one individual? Undoubtedly, the trustworthiness and credibility of the platform will become questionable. Is there a way for him to stop harassing editors, or put some sort of semi block to his edits where he cant edit pages pertaining to these topics given his evident biases? Factfinderrr (talk) 16:13, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ^^correction the assailants name is "ThatBritishAsianDude", NOT "thebritishasian." Factfinderrr (talk) 16:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Factfinderrr i have been looking through your contributions and we obviously disagree on whether Afghans are South Asian or not, however this does not seem like a good reason to make baseless WP:NPA statements like this, i'm still assuming good faith while writing this. While due to the warnings of Meters i have realised that Afghans aren't included in South Asian Offical censuses in countries like Canada and the USA. Claiming Afghans aren't South Asian at all is just false, pinging @Meters here and multiple discussions like that have been conducted on the Talkpage of South Asia of which the conclusion has always been that it still is a part of South Asia. There are also multiple sources who say that . I also noticed how you keep using the terms Indian subcontinent and South Asia as interchangable, however the first term doesn't include Afghanistan while the latter does, which is why i reverted your edits on these pages: South Asian Diaspora and Culture of Asia. The South Asian diaspora page also mentions not al South Asians are Desi and that it is controversial. Besides this you deleted the Pashto language from the South Asian Canadian page claiming it is not South Asian, there is no indicator of what makes a language South Asian it could be Iranic, Indo-Aryan or Dravidian. Pashto is not only spoken by Afghans but also by Pakistanis, which is why i reverted only that edit and not the one removing Afghanistan. Apoligize for the long message hoped this would clear some things up, especialy since i hoped avoiding continious topics like these. ThatBritishAsianDude (talk) 21:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @ThatBritishAsianDude,
 * I firmly disagree that my complaint of you is “baseless,” and uphold my original assertion that you have historically not acted in good faith, and are continuing to not act in good faith in the present either.
 * Your editing history comprises of you reverting changes made by editors, to align with your own biases. Where an edit does not align with your agenda, you engage in a reverting war for months on end.  Despite being provided with sources to evidence the original editors claim. This is further substantiated in your lengthy reversion of edits to user:The First Legionnaire. The last reversion you made to the SouthAsian Canadians article was on 30 June 2024.
 * It’s questionable that mere hours after my edit on 12 July 2024 you chose to revert my changes, and then proceeded to go on a reversion rampage through my contributors history.
 * On closer inspection, of your own contributors history what you did to me, you have also done to other users eg The First Legionnaire and is reflective of a consistent pattern of spiteful behaviour from you where you specifically choose to target edits to pages regarding Afghans.
 * It is glaringly obvious that you have these pages on watch, and where a user makes an edit you are swift to immediately shut them down.
 * Thankfully,
 * @Meters stepped in as a third Party to audit your behaviour, and give you a warning otherwise this would have been yet another months long dispute of the two of us reverting and undoing edits. In essence your reversion history and the hastiness of which you undo an authors painstaking edit, is undoubtedly evidence of you acting in bad faith, and violating the terms of use of this platform.
 * "While due to the warnings of Meters i have realised that Afghans aren't included in South Asian Offical censuses in countries like Canada and the USA." 
 * It is unfortunate, that Meters had to step in to mediate your actions, where you have been told by multiple different users that Afghans do not belong in the SouthAsian Canadian category. This is cause for concern. Is Meter or a third party, required to step in and babysit your behaviour every single time? This is a waste of time and resources for Wikipedia, when we should be working to develop, enhance and ensure the information supplied on this platform is as accurate as possible.
 * It’s interesting that you perceive Afghans to be South Asian, when even “Britain,” does not classify Afghans as South Asia either, rather they are counted under “Asians,” in general, by the UK office of national statistics.
 * In fact none of the English speaking countries, classify Afghans as South Asian. Canadians- Central asian, US- “white,”Australia- central asian, UK and New Zealand- Asian. The only time the type of “Asian” that Afghans are specified as being are central asian- twice by 2 different countries. There is no mention by the statistical standards authority of these countries of Afghans being South Asian. Hence, it is more accurate to classify Afghans as central asian, as regarded by GOVERNMENT authorities.
 * "Claiming Afghans aren't South Asian at all is just false, pinging @Meters here and multiple discussions"
 * False. I’ve only replied to Meters twice, of which both times he has been the one to reach out to me initially. I feel harassed by you and am alarmed at your behaviour, that not only you chose to revert my edits TWICE but then went on my page to stalk my history where I was engaging with someone else. That is why I feel you urgently need to be addressed or suspended.
 * "There are also multiple sources who say that [1] [2]." 
 * 1. There are also multiple sources that state Afghanistan is in Central Asia.
 * 2. Britaniccas article on Afghanistan states “Afghanistan, multiethnic landlocked country located in the heart of south-central Asia.,” i.e. the south of Central Asia or southern Central Asia. This is further substantiated in a following line “It is bounded to the east and south by Pakistan .” Meaning, it is bordered by South Asia/ that South Asia is to the Afghanistans “south.”
 * 3. Regardless, the edits I made didn’t argue these points but were removals of inaccurate or vague information. In addition to me moving information to the Central Asia section- of which you blindly reverted too. Did you actually read the edits I made?
 * 4. The image you reverted it back to, was a “modified version” of the original version which did not include Afghanistan- this is portrayed in the caption of the image once you click on it to download. My edit was a restoration to the original and ACCURATE version.
 * This is further evidence of you blindly reverting edits and continual pattern of failing to engage in good faith.
 * "I also noticed how you keep using the terms Indian subcontinent and South Asia as interchangable, however the first term doesn't include Afghanistan while the latter does"
 * The Indian subcontinent and South Asia are interchangeable terms, Afghanistan is moreso a central asian country, and does not fit the cultural, ethnic, historical composition of South Asia. Barring the dubious and inaccurate inclusion of Afghanistan, the subcontinent and South Asia are essentially synonyms.
 * "Besides this you deleted the Pashto language from the South Asian Canadian page claiming it is not South Asian, there is no indicator of what makes a language South Asian it could be Iranic, Indo-Aryan or Dravidian."
 * False, the indicator is Stats Canada.
 * The SouthAsian Canadian article, references south asians in Canada. If Canada does not classify Pashto as a South Asian language, then Pashto should not be listed. Again, despite being audited by a third party, having citation supplied by me and The First Legionnaire for months on end. You are continuing to persist with your own selectivity. If a user repeatedly fails to accept evidence, choosing to maintain their biases, how can they be a credible contributor to this platform? You are not acting in good faith.
 * "Pashto is not only spoken by Afghans but also by Pakistanis [3], which is why i reverted only that edit and not the one removing Afghanistan." 
 * Again, if Stats Canada does not classify Pashto as a South Asian language, then it is is not South Asian. That means studies, demographics, patterns etc  Pashtun Canadians would not be included in policies geared to south asians. Therefore it is redundant to include them in a category that does not represent them.
 * Many languages are spoken in countries that are abridged from their homeland. Pashtuns have historically been referred to as Afghans and originate from Afghanistan. Therefore Pakistani Pashtuns are a subset of diaspora. Diasporal groups do not determine the classification of a language. E.g Mandarin does not become a Germanic language, just because Chinese Americans are living in the US. This logic is validated by the fact that Stats Canada does not class pashto, as a South Asian language, but an iranic one.
 * "Apoligize for the long message hoped this would clear some things up, especially since i hoped avoiding continuous topics like these."
 * I don’t accept your apology. Your actions indicate insincerity, and your suggestion of you “hoping to avoid continuous topics,” is ironic given how you’ve yet again chosen to revert my edits and then subsequently try to bully me on my own page. If you do not cease in your repeated attacks, I will escalate this query further. Thank you.
 * sources
 * https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/census2021dictionary/variablesbytopic/ethnicgroupnationalidentitylanguageandreligionvariablescensus2021/ethnicgroupdetailed/classifications
 * https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/media/3216
 * https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/classifications/australian-standard-classification-cultural-and-ethnic-groups-ascceg
 * https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/02/25/us/census-race-ethnicity-middle-east-north-africa.html
 * https://aria.stats.govt.nz/aria/#ClassificationView:uri=http://stats.govt.nz/cms/ClassificationVersion/mTd5SsI4Me5dMKf8
 * https://www23.statcan.gc.ca/imdb/p3VD.pl?Function=getVD&TVD=1420413&CVD=1420466&CPV=16.07&CST=15052022&CLV=1&MLV=3
 * https://www.cwis.org/2021/08/afghanistan-land-of-the-pashtun-confederation/ Factfinderrr (talk) 13:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Factfinderrr again i don't appreciate these WP:NPA, i suggest you read #6 of that page and avoid using words as "assailant". I get that your new here but It is alarming how personal you take these reverts since it is only about the content, i suggest you keep only discussing the content further in the discussion since that is how we work on wikipedia. Your usage of historical is also suspicious due to the similar edit history you and the First Legionnaire have. I also think you misunderstood why i pinged @Meters, i pinged him to show the explanation i gave for Afghans being South Asian had nothing to with you. You also say I am "harassing" you but trough talkpages of a user or a article we are supposed to come to a consensus, which is why i reacted here and you where the one mentioning me first.
 * Now further discussing the content, i never claimed Afghans weren't Central Asian and i already agreed with you on that most overseas cenusses don't inlcude it even though not al of those examples you gave have South Asian as a seperate category. The sources you continue to give don't explain the changes you made, since we are discussing Afghans in general not what those specific countries say i have already provided you whith sources that say that Afghans are South Asian and Central Asian. So again i don't have a problem with you adding Afghan content to Central Asian subjects, i do have a problem with you deleting any mention of them also being South Asian since you didn't give a source that says that. Which is why i reverted your edits yet again. There is also a difference between South Asia and the indian subcontinent as you can see: . So your claim of the terms being interchangable is wrong and you mentioning the indian subcontinent while editing something about South Asia is to.  Your claim about Pashtuns not being pakistani and comparing it to a other ethinicity that migrates to somewhere is also wrong the pashtunistan and pashtun diaspora pages clearly mention pashtuns being indigenous to both Afghanistan and Pakistan. You are still claiming Afghanistan isn't South Asian i suggest you work it out on the talkpage of that article and see for yourself why it isn't. The Central Asia page doesn't even fully include Afghanistan. You also keep putting your sources in the edit summary, which is not how that works. If you want to change sourced content replace is whith a better one that passes WP:V where you also get consensus for. Have provided more sources than necessary at this point, some of which are part of the South Asia article it self, My regards ThatBritishAsianDude (talk) 19:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Factfinderrr again i don't appreciate these WP:NPA, i suggest you read #6 of that page and avoid using words as "assailant". I get that your new here but It is alarming how personal you take these reverts since it is only about the content, i suggest you keep only discussing the content further in the discussion since that is how we work on wikipedia. Your usage of historical is also suspicious due to the similar edit history you and the First Legionnaire have. I also think you misunderstood why i pinged @Meters, i pinged him to show the explanation i gave for Afghans being South Asian had nothing to with you. You also say I am "harassing" you but trough talkpages of a user or a article we are supposed to come to a consensus, which is why i reacted here and you where the one mentioning me first.
 * Now further discussing the content, i never claimed Afghans weren't Central Asian and i already agreed with you on that most overseas cenusses don't inlcude it even though not al of those examples you gave have South Asian as a seperate category. The sources you continue to give don't explain the changes you made, since we are discussing Afghans in general not what those specific countries say i have already provided you whith sources that say that Afghans are South Asian and Central Asian. So again i don't have a problem with you adding Afghan content to Central Asian subjects, i do have a problem with you deleting any mention of them also being South Asian since you didn't give a source that says that. Which is why i reverted your edits yet again. There is also a difference between South Asia and the indian subcontinent as you can see: . So your claim of the terms being interchangable is wrong and you mentioning the indian subcontinent while editing something about South Asia is to.  Your claim about Pashtuns not being pakistani and comparing it to a other ethinicity that migrates to somewhere is also wrong the pashtunistan and pashtun diaspora pages clearly mention pashtuns being indigenous to both Afghanistan and Pakistan. You are still claiming Afghanistan isn't South Asian i suggest you work it out on the talkpage of that article and see for yourself why it isn't. The Central Asia page doesn't even fully include Afghanistan. You also keep putting your sources in the edit summary, which is not how that works. If you want to change sourced content replace is whith a better one that passes WP:V where you also get consensus for. Have provided more sources than necessary at this point, some of which are part of the South Asia article it self, My regards ThatBritishAsianDude (talk) 19:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

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