User talk:FacultiesIntact/sandbox/Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

promotional and not sufficiently sourced
The following is a strong claim and you need a stronger and independent source for this.

General Memorial led innovation in cancer treatment after the turn of the century, using X-rays for the first time as part of treatment in 1902. In 1915 the hospital also began a radiation department which would become the cornerstone of radiation therapy as a cancer treatment.

I would reckon that there are medical history books or review articles that discuss the history of the field of radiation oncology. something like that is what you want for this. The second source there is really cool however and I hope you keep it in the article.

- Jytdog (talk) 19:28, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

James Ewing (pathologist)
I was reading the James Ewing Society lecture used a source here and that source makes it very clear that James Ewing (pathologist) is an important figure in the history of MSK and made me wonder why he is not mentioned.Jytdog (talk) 02:01, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Ripples
based on what i learned here i added this to the Mercaptopurine article, this to the GlaxoSmithKline article, and this to Tuckahoe (village), New York article. hm! Jytdog (talk) 04:58, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

i took the NYT reporting on the first mustard-gas derivatives and used it here Jytdog (talk) 05:16, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

VERIFY
Because the stuff about 6 MP was so botched i don't trust that this bit is accurate and i cannot verify it.

The Sloan-Kettering Institute then went on to create the first computerized treatment plan program in the US.

- Jytdog (talk) 05:28, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Response
@Jytdog I hope you don't mind if I respond to all of your comments here.
 * 1) Apologies for the promotional tone. Would this be acceptable? "General Memorial began using X-rays for the first time as part of treatment in 1902. In 1915 the hospital also began one of the first radiation departments in the world. " With the research I've done, there seems to be little about the institutions involved in the history of radiation oncology, and more on the figures and processes. While I'm normally skeptical of annual reports from private companies, I trust annuals from non-profits and publicly traded companies.
 * 2) I didn't mention James Ewing as there have been a number of high profile scientists to have worked at Memorial. Rather than try to choose who I felt was most important, I opted to focus on the history of the hospital. Where should the line be drawn? I'm sure the articles for these respective individuals could use updating: would they be a more appropriate place to expound?
 * 3) As with the above, I felt it was more succinct to mention the collaboration and keep the focus on the institution, rather than name the individuals. I rewrote the bit about Rhoads to read to maintain that. I'm glad that the information made its way onto other pages.
 * 4) I understand your skepticism, and found this book, A Bibliographic Guide to Resources in Scientific Computing, 1945-1975 which (on page 235) pointed to this article, The Application of Automatic Computing Machines to Radiation Treatment Planning, which unfortunately I do not have access to. I do have a scan of the annual which reports on the use of IBM equipment in treatment planning, which, again, I'd be happy to share with you.

I've gone through the draft again and cleaned it up a bit, and added a couple new references. I appreciate your continued collaboration.

--FacultiesIntact (talk) 00:03, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

moved here
This section is just kind of an amalgam of statements, not telling a story. Moved here for now.

In 1980 Memorial Hospital and the Sloan-Kettering Institute formally merged into a singular entity under the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center name.
 * 1980-onward- Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center

The Memorial Sloan Kettering Bendheim Integrative Medicine Center occupies 1425 First Avenue on the corner of East 74th Street in Manhattan. The former bank was built in the 1930s by Perkins and Will as architects. It was remodeled for use by Memorial Sloan Kettering in 1997. In 2005, the Louis V. Gerstner, Jr. Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences was opened at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, with the goal of furthering research by introducing students to an interactive and innovative environment.

Craig B. Thompson, oncologist and researcher, was appointed MSK’s president and CEO in 2010. The following year, MSK was rated the third most successful nonprofit in terms of FDA-approved drugs and vaccines, behind the National Institutes of Health and the University of California system. In 2012, Thompson appointed José Baselga as physician-in-chief, who directs the clinical side of MSK. That same year, a collaboration with IBM’s Watson was announced with the goal of developing new tools and resources to better tailor diagnostic and treatment recommendations for patients. The director of SKI, the research arm of MSK, Joan Massagué was appointed in 2013. The next year, US News & World voted MSK as the number 1 cancer facility in the US.

- Jytdog (talk) 05:15, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * i don't understand how Harold_E._Varmus could be left out of this story... Jytdog (talk) 05:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
 * with regard to the USN&W report ranking, it is not encyclopedic to have just a dot like that. maybe a section on its rankings over time or something.  or nothing. Jytdog (talk) 05:24, 28 March 2016 (UTC)


 * I think these are fantastic edits. I agree that the last section wasn't very cohesive. I try to avoid removing content in my revisions, and didn't really know what to do with the information about the Bendheim Center or the Gerstner Graduate School. I think they could fit into their own subsection along the lines of "associated facilities." That said, I think the last paragraph
 * "Craig B. Thompson, oncologist and researcher, was appointed MSK’s president and CEO in 2010. The following year, MSK was rated the third most successful nonprofit in terms of FDA-approved drugs and vaccines, behind the National Institutes of Health and the University of California system. In 2012, Thompson appointed José Baselga as physician-in-chief, who directs the clinical side of MSK. That same year, a collaboration with IBM’s Watson was announced with the goal of developing new tools and resources to better tailor diagnostic and treatment recommendations for patients. The director of SKI, the research arm of MSK, Joan Massagué was appointed in 2013. "
 * could fit into the last section, with the removal of the US News & World ranking moved to the reputation section. I'll go ahead and look for updated references for both facts. As for Varmus, again I wanted to avoid mentioning every significant individual in MSK's history, but I'd be happy to begin researching for his inclusion. Lastly, while I can see how the language around the statement regarding the nation's first pain service could come off as promotional, do you really feel this information is not worth including at all? I think it's a significant medical milestone that definitely merits mentioning.

--FacultiesIntact (talk) 22:46, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * When you ask about the pain thing, you are talking about this dif. The problem with all the claims there, is that they are inadequately sourced.  The "first pain clinic" claim is extraordinary and needs more than the Center's own annual report to support it.  The importance of the other claims there, cannot be sourced to the primary publications of those things - some secondary or tertiary source needs to say that the screening guidelines in PMID 7704928 "led to modern preventive colorectal screenings" and that PMID 11870168 established that best practice is "the removal of the ovaries and fallopian tubes as the most effective way of preventing breast and ovarian cancers in at-risk women".... Jytdog (talk) 23:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

What do you think of this sandbox as it looks now? Would you say this is a suitable update to the current article?--FacultiesIntact (talk) 02:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know if you noticed but I went ahead and over wrote the MSK article. here. This is done. Jytdog (talk) 19:53, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I did not! Thank you! I wonder why it didn't show up in my watchlist. Would you mind taking a last look at the sandbox? I just made some minor copyedits to the text.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 19:58, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Those are fine, i'll implement them too. Jytdog (talk) 20:36, 13 May 2016 (UTC)