User talk:Fanx/Archive 3



Town of Christchurch by-election, 1860
Hi Fanx, was quite fun reading all the old newspapers in the research for the Town of Christchurch by-election, 1860 article. I reckon the article structure is good as a template for historic by-elections. If you can think of anything that could be improved in terms of structure or if there's significant content type missing, let me know and I'll try and tweak it (replying here is good).  Schwede 66  20:48, 21 February 2012 (UTC) I have written to the Electoral Commission and asked whether they can make by-election results available to us.  Schwede 66  20:41, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it is an excellent article, and I think it's format will make a good template. When I found it I was just expecting a stub along the lines of "so-and-so resigned, candidate names, result table, paperspast/scholefield ref", and was pleasantly surprised to see such a well-researched piece. Fan |  talk  20:57, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've had a few successful GA reviews done and thought this one might be good enough, too, so I've nominated it. Good to see all the new by-election articles that you've put together.  Great to get rid of redlinks. It's a long list ahead of you.  Schwede  66  20:10, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The upcoming by-election spurred me on. Apart from the first two interlinked by-elections most should be raisable to stub-level - at least as far as paperspast runs to 1945. The great shame is the the most difficult ones to find any info on are the most recent redlinks, including by-elections from 1974, 1977 and 1992 concerning the death of a PM, the retirement of two ex-PMs and the election of a future PM. Fan |  talk  23:00, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I've dealt with the 1974 by-election, but it's not the most glorious article...  Schwede 66  06:29, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I had noticed the Sydenham article, and I was somewhat ambivilent about its usefulness. While articles are always good the missing data makes it less useful, and as the only reference point we currently have is redlink status I feel that having too many by-election articles without results data could be counter-productive. My solutions for the two most recent missing by-elections (Tamaki '92 and Wgtn Cent. '92 - these two had me bothered for some years) was to search and research - for Tamaki I got lucky when I found Barry Gustafson's biography on Muldoon online, still missing minor candidate info though. Wellington Central proved harder, and in the end I ordered copies of The Evening Post articles from Natlib via my local library, as this is election night figures it does not include special votes - unfortunately this information still eludes me. Given the significant cost ($16) this probably won't be a solution for the remaining 30 by-elections from 1945 to 1977 that are otherwise not covered by paperspast, and as I'm living outside any main centre my library research isn't as easy as I'd like. [edit] Pahiatua & Mangere '77 appear to be covered in AJHR #9, 1979  Fan |  talk  14:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

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Electorate articles
You are on a roll at the moment with getting electorate tables tidied up. Good on you. I thought I'd just point out one thing, and that is that the old-style tables (see for example the last four entries of Avon) have a column for 'reason', which is not preserved in the new layout. When I come along and write the history section for an electorate, I rely on that column being correct; the information comes from Wilson (1985); Scholefield (1950), which I own, contains much less info (dissolution, resigned and deceased is all that edition gives). May I thus suggest that you preserve the information when you go to the new table format, for example by adding a bulleted list to the history section with MPs' names and their reasons for vacating the electorate? That way, I (or somebody else) can come along and turn that into prose at a later time. What do you think?

Do you have a certain order by which you go through the electorates?  Schwede 66  18:07, 10 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I have rather good news: I managed to buy a copy of Wilson (1985), for a mere $15. That will greatly assist in our work.  Schwede 66  17:42, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

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Election results boxes
I've created a page for Party lists in the New Zealand general election, 1996 and it's a lot of work. What needs doing now is to add electorates to the tables that the list candidates contested. As long as there are 1996 results boxes with the electorate articles, that's all straightforward. I've got to and, and those results boxes haven't been done yet. I've attempted Bay of Plenty myself and have the electorate results in a table, but don't know how to assign the various candidates to parties, as some are independents, and others are of parties that did not submit a list. I'm working off this page, and that info seems to be missing. The base page is here and I can't see a sub-page that contains what I'm after. What do you base your work on when you put those results tables together? What am I missing?  Schwede 66  06:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I used a python script for the last couple of elections to create results tables for each electorate, but the script parses the raw html of the electionresults.govt.nz site and will not deal with the pdf format of earlier results. I also can't see a page which has similar information to the pages for later elections.- gadfium 06:49, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Those old PDFs are a real pain. I suppose we should be glad that the info is available in the first instance.  Schwede 66  07:22, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I've recently had a hard drive die - and that held all my elections data - including all the 1996 .PDFs, so this was my approach - from memory. Tying the names at the bottom of the electorate page to a party means trawling through several documents to match them up (3.3 party lists successful parties & 3.4 party lists unsuccessful parties), then for left over candidates check any likely wiki article on unregistered parties - google, and presume any not so far covered are independents. Unfortunately a conveniently readable official version of 1996 results doesn't exist - at least, not on electionresults.govt.nz - everything that's been created for 1996 was hand-copied (probably one of the reasons why there's so few individual 1996 electorate results pages). As I'd built the current results templates prior to the 2008 election I felt I needed to have all blank results tables [hidden] in place prior to the last two elections, and in 2011 I integrated the results table format with the candidates list. As my scripting ability usually begins and ends with recognising the need, and infrequently coopting someone to create a script I tend to build results tables by hand. If much of the work is done with python I'd gladly pass the work on to a script.  Fan  |  talk  15:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Uh, that is tedious, but it's exactly what I envisaged what I had to do to complete this. I have written to the Electoral Commission and asked whether they have a list that matches 1996 candidates to parties.  Schwede 66  20:41, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Gents, I have some good news. We now have the 1996 results as spreadsheets: Will this lend itself to some automated process for producing results tables for each electorate? If so, who wants to do it (it's beyond my programming skills) and how do we transfer the spreadsheets? I have wikimail enabled.
 * Party votes by electorate (one big table)
 * Electorate candidate valid votes (one worksheet with 65 tables on it)
 * The spreadsheet that I have cobbled together to automate the production of the 1996 party list page (two worksheets per party)

And by the way, the 1996 party votes results that are published on the Electoral Commission's website are wrong. It's a long story, but my enquiry has prompted them to look into the situation in a bit more detail. They'll fix it up once they've finished work on the Ikaroa-Rāwhiti results.  Schwede 66  21:09, 4 July 2013 (UTC)


 * When you have time, could you have a look as to why 'Progressive Greens' isn't working on User:Schwede66/sandbox?  Schwede 66  21:23, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I see you resolved the problem with some new meta templates. I changed the /meta/color to the one you had on your sandbox (#339999) as the your choice on the meta (#32CD32) was too close to ALCP's (#33CC33).
 * I'd be interested in hearing the long story on how the EC got its numbers wrong - good that you have a dialogue with them.  Fan |  talk  22:29, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I set up colour (i.e. color) and shortname pages for the Progressive Greens, but it didn't work in the MMP template. Not sure what's missing. See this diff. With regards to the long story, they want to publish that themselves, so it might not be appropriate to put this in the public arena via this talkpage. I've contacted you via Wikimail, though, and when you reply, I can send you the email chain for private reading.  Schwede 66  05:56, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be a stalker, but if you change  |party = Progressive Greens  to  |party = Progressive Green Party (New Zealand)  it should work. :) Mattlore (talk) 06:30, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Matt - as noted, the template handles the shortname+wikilink so no need to wikilink the name. I only noticed the absence of the color template which was resolved by the time I'd read this talk. <small style="background:#EFE;border:#090 1px solid;color:#060;padding:2px;white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#660 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em"> <big style="color:#C00">Fan |  talk  <small style="color:#00D">06:40, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Page stalking is much appreciated, especially when it solves my troubles. Thanks, this makes it work indeed; I was using the shortname.  Schwede 66  20:01, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

June 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=562243045 your edit] to List of New Zealand Labour Party MPs may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s and 1 "{}"s likely mistaking one for another. If you have, don't worry, just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
 * List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 13:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
 * ] (1994), Future NZ (1994-1995), United MP 1995-2002}, United Future (2002–present) (Onslow 1994-1996, Ohariu - Belmont 1996-2008, Ōhariu

New Zealand Socialist Party
Hi Fanx, you are good with colours. If you have time, could you please sort something out for the New Zealand Socialist Party to make my sandbox work?  Schwede 66  21:10, 29 July 2013 (UTC)


 * It's showing the correct meta/color so can I assume you've resolved it? I changed the colour of the New Liberal Party as it was too similar to the Liberal's yellow. 1908 saw a single ballot in Chch East, my figures are 3497, 1771, 506 & 469 respectively. NZDB lists James McCombs as Independent Liberal in 1908. Incidentally, 1911 has McCombs as Liberal-Labour - a party or grouping we haven't so far covered. <small style="border:#CCC 1px solid;padding:2px"><big style="color:#C00">Fan &#124;  talk  &#124; 02:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, I had already fixed the colour issue. I've had a look at  in 1911; it's rather confusing how it's described in DNZB. McCombs stood as an Independent Liberal, made it through to the second ballot, and was then endorsed by the original Labour Party. Have added the results and refs to the article.


 * Where do you have the 1908 first ballot figures from? They are different to what the government published (refer to the ref).  Schwede 66  01:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Three spreadsheets covering 1906 - 1993 from here. In the absence of any official figures it's what I use (and with a pinch of salt - there's some glaring errors in them), but your AtoJs reference trumps mine. NZES lists (most) parties instead of candidates, which is useful additional info. <small style="border:#CCC 1px solid;padding:2px"><big style="color:#C00">Fan &#124;  talk  &#124; 15:33, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

1890 election
Just drawing your attention to a discussion that I started on that article's talk page. It's your edit that I'm referring to.  Schwede 66  17:18, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

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Query
Happy new year to you. I see you added election results to the Wellington electorate article. Could you please respond to a query?  Schwede 66  17:09, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Fanx, could you finish off the work that you started on next elections? It'd be appreciated.  Wik idea  12:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

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New proposal at Talk:Independent (politician)
The proposed move of Independent (politician) has been altered to the new title of Political independent, which might be more addressing of your concerns. This notice is in case you would like to review your vote. Dralwik&#124;Have a Chat 15:14, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring
Please can you stop edit warring on the by-election page. Your edits are not constructive. doktorb wordsdeeds 14:50, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Edit Warring requires three reverts, something I am not guilty of. You however, have triple-reverts on two articles I have recently contributed to, and is something you've been requested to stop doing by others. That you think my edits are not constructive is entirely your POV, and is not supported by other editors that accept my edits and revert your disruptions. <small style="border:#CCC 1px solid;padding:2px"><big style="color:#C00">Fan &#124;  talk  &#124; 15:34, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I am reverting your mistakes. Stop making them, it's quite simple. doktorb wordsdeeds 19:27, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Doktorbuk, your comments on this talk page are condescending and out of order.  Schwede 66  20:08, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Fanx is trying to insert factually incorrect content into an article. I'm stopping him, and I will win. Quite simple. doktorb wordsdeeds 20:18, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * That's what this is all about? ... winning? You need to let go and realise you don't have any more vested interest in wikipedia articles than anyone else and you don't actually own the articles you edit. Facts are as laid out in other pages already, the fact that you find the facts unpalatable is not my concern. <small style="border:#CCC 1px solid;padding:2px"><big style="color:#C00">Fan &#124;  talk  &#124; 03:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is a collaborative project where 'winning' is a concept that is unsuitable. You should work on your attitude to be able to work with other editors in a constructive way, or else consider taking up a different hobby.  Schwede 66  04:55, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Fanx, your editing of the Byelection page removes facts for speculation. This is disruptive. I will have to instigate official warning procedures against your constant editing problems if this continues. I am right, and that is that. doktorb wordsdeeds 10:33, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

I have added facts, and not removed any, and all facts I have added are to be found on several other pages. It is you that has been attempting to remove information - do you have a political or parochial interest in censoring the facts that do no more than state that the convention wasn't followed when two republican MPs refused to accept crown appointments? See: All of which are in agreement with my edits - are you calling for all these articles to be censored to a standard that you and only you agree with? I'll assume these other articles are safe for the moment since you've earned yourself a three day ban for edit warring. <small style="border:#CCC 1px solid;padding:2px"><big style="color:#C00">Fan &#124;  talk  &#124; 12:49, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Resignation from the British House of Commons
 * Gerry Adams
 * Martin McGuinness
 * Belfast West by-election, 2011
 * Mid Ulster by-election, 2013
 * and any relevant references in the above articles


 * I will happily look at those articles in time, but on the UK by-election article, there is no point or need for you to mislead readers by inserting the content you intend to, and I will correct your mistakes if you repeat the attempt to do so. doktorb wordsdeeds 09:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Spelling
I am talking this question off the article talk page because it is not related directly to that discussion. I am asking about your statement that "I cannot contest your claim that MANA is capitalised differently in Māori (another word you misspelled)".

First, criticising someone's spelling on a talk page is quite pointless and unnecessary. Talk pages are not articles. I think it would be useful for you to review WP:TALK so that you get a better understanding of what talk pages are about and how to interact with other people on talk pages.

Editors must always try to spell correctly in articles, because they are a part of the encyclopaedia we are creating. Talk pages are places to discuss an article, but are not a part of the article, and so you will find that editors are less careful about spelling and even grammar because they don't need to be. When it comes to diacritic marks, many people, like me, do not have keyboards that accommodate diacritic marks, so using them is cumbersome and time-consuming. Of course I will do it when editing articles, but it is a waste of time in editing talk pages. You clearly did not misunderstand me when I typed "Maori".

That being said, because English does not generally use diacritic marks, "Maori" is an acceptable English spelling of "Māori". See Wikipedia's article on Māori language, which identifies "Maori" as a variant. In the same way, Quebec, Haiti and Mexico are accepted English spellings of Québéc, Haïti and México.

Finally, I am not clear what other word I misspelled. I hope that you are not suggesting that I misspelled "MANA" by using standard English capitalisation. That is not a spelling mistake - it is a difference of opinion about capitalisation, which is a different carnivorous beast altogether. Regards, Ground Zero | t 23:08, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Internet Party and MANA Movement
I have proposed to rename this article at Talk:Internet_Party_and_MANA_Movement. I invite your input. Ground Zero | t 15:44, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Regarding this edit, I overlooked that it was a cited article title. Thanks for fixing my mistake. Ground Zero | t 01:06, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Election templates
Two questions:

1) Where's the consensus? Discuss before reverting again.

2) There was a large change from 1996 onwards when New Zealand switched to MMP. As long as names are consistent before 1993 and after 1996, there is no problem.

Lcmortensen (mailbox) 09:27, 15 September 2014 (UTC)