User talk:Firebladed/newtincdraft

Fireblade ... Alliance's ideas via a North American lecture tour in 1934, gaining support throughout the depression years, though membership and interest has decrease over the years since World War II, Technocracy Inc is still active in early 21st century with members participating in in discussion groups and publishing quarterly "The North American Technocrat"[1].

This is not really so. The group is now gaining more interest and notoriety than ever before. A google search will confirm that. Also mainly TechInc is an internet based group now as most groups have become. It is misleading to present it now as a club like entity that organizes meeting.. although there are still some meetings. Those days are over right now. Mostly most communication is carried on over the internet/skype contacts Forums etc.

The darkened areas are unsourced and wrong. It is the official policy of TechInc not to reveal members or the numbers of members etc. Therefore you are speculating or doing original research with that comment. There has never been more interest in these ideas than now. Therefore your edit is misleading. Apparently you have still not read this suggested material ? http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/History%20&%20Purpose-r.htm History and Purpose of Technocracy skip sievert (talk) 14:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It is sourced and there is even a citation for it, you may not like the source but that is a different issue, but as it is a summary of actual Technocracy Incorporated documents including, Section Membership Reports. Membership mailing lists; membership applications, etc., made by reliable neutral 3rd party organisation, it is unreasonable to claim it is incorrect without providing evidence to backup the claim. but if you can provide verifiable evidence then it can be changed.


 * unfortunately Google searches don`t really confirm anything and certainly aren't a reliable source


 * and discussion groups are probably now more commonly on-line than any other form, web forums, message boards even chat rooms are all forms of discussion groups
 * --Firebladed (talk) 15:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

You are apparently not listening to what I am mentioning. You have a page written by someone at a University trying to figure out what they have... and then try to present it somehow to the public.. not any actual material or a good source except in a couple instances that are verifiable elsewhere. You have as a source something that is a hodge podge of recycled wikipedia information from the last year or befores edits. I remember the exact phrase. If you look back on the article edits it is there... the part about that program being used in the event of the collapse of the price system. Why would you think that someone trying to present donated material who is not connected in any way would not go to old wikipedia information... now archived as deleted material... So far I see no improvement in your mock up and no apparent direction as to real scholarship or real research. I have suggested starting here in the section called instincts of engineers.. for a reality check on the present incarnation you have. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_%28bureaucratic%29 skip sievert (talk) 16:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Some improvement noted
A couple things though.. this..''Groups formed after the First World War that were inspired by the ideas of Gibbs, including Henry Gantt’s "The New Machine" and Thorstein Veblen’s "Soviet of Technicians". These organisations folded after a short time. However, the "Soviet of Technicians" resulted in a series of lectures, which Howard Scott attended;''

Henry Gant or Thorstein Veblen were not connected at that time to Gibbs in any way information wise. Howard Scott brought Gibbs to the table with the concept of energy accounting. Note that Hibernian was correct on that also... and that edit was misconstrued previously by a helpful but not really knowledgeable person as to that history. The editor at that time improved the article but got a couple things wrong.

Also...The word "technocracy" was first used by William H. Smyth to describe a government made up of scientists and engineers in 1919,[6] and in the 1920s, it was also used to describe the works of Thorsten Veblen[4], who was a member of the Technical Alliance.

This is not correct in the context given. The way the word was conceptualized in a different context is significant. He was also not the first to use this word. This is an old edit that has lingered that should not be there. It is not connected except in a round about way to a different purpose. It has nothing to do with the movement or group in question.

Also in notable members.... why not include notable members from the Technical Alliance the precursor of Technocracy Incorporated group. Say.... Notable members from the Technical Alliance  forerunner of Technocracy Incorporated.... then we can put Veblen... Scott..

THORSTEIN VEBLEN, Educator and Author (1857-1929): Taught Economics and Finance at Cornell University; Political Economy at University of Chicago; Economics at Leland Stanford University and New School for Social Research. Managing Editor, ``Journal of Political Economy. In his classes and textbooks, exposed and analyzed the ``conspicuous consumption of cultural waste and the technical inefficiency inculcated by economics' deliberate obsolescence of products as well as interference- control of education. Author of Theory of the Leisure Class, Theory of Business Enterprise, Instinct of Workmanship, Higher Learning in America, Vested Interests and the Common Man, and others.

CHARLES PROTEUS STEINMETZ, Electrical Engineer (1865-1923): Known as the ``Wizard of General Electric'', he created and controlled lightning--artificial yet with the same flashing crash and destructiveness as Nature's lightning--so he could devise electrical equipment to more effectively withstand uncontrollable natural lightning. During his career, his inventions won him more than 200 patents, creating practical solutions to the enigmatic problems of magnetism and alternating current; his work became the springboard for much of the vast electrical industry used today. There was no way to mass- produce electric motors or generators and no practical way to transmit electric energy more than three miles...until Steinmetz discovered the laws of hysteresis in 1892 when he was 28. He read a paper on it before the American Institute of Electrical Engineers...in 1901-2 they chose him as their president. When giving him an honorary degree, President Charles W. Eliot of Harvard University, said: ``I confer this degree upon you as the foremost electrical engineer in the United States, therefore in the world.''

LELAND OLDS, Statistician (1890-1960): Director of research for the American Federation of Labor; assistant to the chairman, then executive secretary of the New York State Power Authority; Chairman of the U.S. Federal Power Commission; Vice Chairman of the National Power Policy Committee; member, President's Water Resources Policy Commission; Chairman, U.S. St. Lawrence Advisory Committee until the St. Lawrence Seaway and Hydroelectric project was completed, which was, as Senator John F. Kennedy pointed out, ``... a permanent memorial to him... He had the vision and the energy to establish the foundation for the giant power system that will soon be serving America.''

RICHARD C. TOLMAN, Physical Chemist (1881-1948): Taught at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, University of Michigan, University of Cincinnati, University of Illinois; Director of the Fixed Nitrogen Research Laboratory; Professor of Physical Chemistry and Mathematical Physics and Dean of Graduate School, California Institute of Technology. During World War II, appointed to the National Defense Research Committee; when President Roosevelt named Vannevar Bush as Chairman, the other members of the Committee chose Tolman as Vice Chairman; member, National Academy of Sciences; Fellow, American Academy of Arts and Sciences; author, Statistical Mechanics with Applications to Physics and Chemistry.

After all if we are combining the articles these Technical Alliance people should be mentioned. Many were world famous scientists then and known now. Here is another source to track other sources with in that regard. http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/Technical%20Alliance%20Profiles-r.htm The Technical Alliance Profiles and Technical Alliance skip sievert (talk) 19:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)