User talk:Five Years/Archive 2

'''This is Archive #2 for User talk:Five Years

Recent AfD Debate
Hi,

Thanks for your note in my talk page about the PSA Athletics AfD debate. Here's why I think the article should be deleted: WP:NOT. In particular, it's worth looking at sections 1.7 and 1.8 of that page.

To put this another way, let's be clear what I'm not saying about PSA Athletics ( and all the rest ): I'm not saying that this article is false, and I'm not saying that the people in the various contests are uninteresting or unimportant as individuals. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have an article about the PSA, nor am I saying that the member schools shouldn't be covered by Wikipedia. But what I am saying is that the contest result information is not valuable to anyone other than the participants in the contests.

There are huge debates about what an encyclopedia should contain. If you go into your school or local library you will find examples of encyclopedias, and as you look at them you'll get an idea of what gets included: stuff that helps people understand their world, and their place in it. So there are articles about science, and history, and geography, and so on. And, sure, there are articles about sport: the evolution of the laws of cricket, say, or the aerodynamics of spin bowling. But there aren't long lists of sports results. Why ? Because knowing that kind of information isn't useful to help you understand your world, and your place in it.

I'm in England, where soccer is the big game. But we don't carry the results of every school soccer game in Wikipedia, even the ones that are really important to the students and local schools at the time they happen. We don't even carry the results of every leading football league match, though these will all have many more people around the world interested and watching than the games you're interested in. We don't include these results because knowing them won't help me understand my society and my place in it. Certainly we have reference to the FA Cup ( the big soccer trophy ) and the Boat Race ( the big rowing contest ), because knowing about these is part of the cultural "background noise" of living in England. In the same way, I'm sure you can find results for the AFL Grand Final in Wikipedia, because knowing a bit about AFL and who's been doing well recently is important in Australia's cultural "background noise". ( By the way, you can count me as a supporter of the Essendon Bombers, though I'm slightly embarrassed to admit it. ) Now ask yourself: are the results of the PSA Athletics and other local schools contests part of the "background noise" of Australian culture ? My strong suspicion is that if you think about this whilst ignoring your personal interest you will come to the answer "No". And that's why they shouldn't be here.

I hope this is clear. Please feel free to get in touch with me any time.

Sincerely,

WMMartin 20:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Aquinas College
Thanks for replying. Lets open up all comments into full view for appropiate discussion on the talk page. Don't forget to sign your posts using --~ --Ali K 11:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Good work. :) Note as well that I'm a complete outsider and am largely unaware of what Aquinas offers (I'm basing my edits almost entirely on what is already there, rather than doing my own research) so my interpretation of some of the existing sentences may be a bit wonky - if you see an area where I've made an error of interpretation, don't hesitate to fix it. Orderinchaos78 16:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Good question actually :| I was at a function tonight and ate too much. Carbohydrates eat your heart out. :) Orderinchaos78 16:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Just realised - I used to go to the dentist at Challenger Avenue/Manning Road. I remember one time I went the wrong way and ended up staggering through some track through bushland near the river, coming out just short of the Mount Henry Bridge, which I then crossed on the understorey. Very nice part of the coastline, although a bit embarrassing to recall especially now that I realise it was privately owned land :P Ah well, I've done worse. At least that time I could blame the local anaesthetic. I got lost walking from Yanchep to Butler once (a distance of about 13km with no formed roads, tracks or human habitation, although some amazing beaches e.g. at Alkimos) coming up to sunset. I was getting more than a bit worried, but somehow managed to get back to the first main road in Butler around 9:15pm. Orderinchaos78 17:26, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My interests in Wiki are many and varied. One area of focus has been bringing suburb and town articles up to B-class standard. I've more generally been trying to improve referencing and standards in WA articles in particular, and have been involved in a bizarre range of debates and issues. For rest - email is the venue. Orderinchaos78 17:43, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * shit! so u didnt just join here for one or two articles like me O>O well man, ive done a few too many edits for tonight - should go to sleep - its nearly 3am - and i have to do shit 2morow =( nice talkin to u. BarnZy. Smbarnzy 17:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries. And you say that *now* :P My first ever edit was to fix unencyclopaedic rubbish on the page for my then-employer. Good night. :) Orderinchaos78 17:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

An Automated Message from HagermanBot
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Language
It might feel good to do so - but its better to tone down on talk pages... even if you think its ok - and take note of the previous message carefully SatuSuro 04:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It's easy to forget to sign. One way of getting around it is put in the --~ before you type the message, then back-arrow to before it and commence typing. Orderinchaos78 07:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Beat me to it :) --Ali K 07:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Aquinas college, Perth management structure
I was wondering if you could remove this Aquinas College Perth management structure article, as i have merged the salvagaable info into the main article of Aquinas College, Perth as per the AfD debate etc etc? Thanks Smbarnzy 12:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As per the consensus decision at Articles for deletion/Old Aquinians Hockey Club, rather than delete, I changed the contents of the article to a redirect as:  #REDIRECT Aquinas College, Perth . When those other sub-articles have been merged, you can do the same to them.  If you need any help, sing out.  &mdash;Moondyne 12:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Templates
You have edited the Template:Fair use rationale, but this templates is meant to be used with parameters. Please read Help:Template. - Ilse@ 13:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Tagging for Speedy Deletion
Hi,

You were wondering about how I tagged the "alumni" article for Speedy Deletion: I went to WP:SPEEDY and scrolled down to the list of tags at the end of the page. I opted to use the { {deletebecause|reason} } tag, so I could explain what was needed. To use the tag you just copy and insert it at the top of the article, editing the "reason" appropriately and all the management takes place automatically. It's useful to read all of WP:SPEEDY before starting this kind of tagging, so you get an idea of how things work. I actually prefer Hesperian's solution to the problem, but I didn't know how to make it work, so we've both learnt something useful from this.

In general, if you're wanting to tag articles for non-speedy deletion, the best place to start is by reading WP:AFD; the exact process is described about half-way down the page.

All the best,

WMMartin 15:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Thomas Aquinas
Hello - I'm the one who is responsible for removing the Aquinas College, Perth category from Thomas Aquinas. My reason for doing so is that Aquinas (the person) has very little to do with Aquinas (the college). Someone who wants to read about Thomas Aquinas does not need to know about Aquinas College, Perth (or about any other Institutions named after Thomas Aquinas). I understand that the reverse relationship is quite strong, of course, but if we included a category on Thomas Aquinas for each of the schools named after him, then the list of categories would be unmanageably long. Thanks... -David aukerman talk 13:28, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, originally, the TA article included a list of all of the schools named after him. This just made the page too long, so a while back the list of schools got moved to its own page (which shows up as a link at the end of the main article's first paragraph). -David aukerman talk 18:55, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey
Hey Smbarnzy, you asked where I have been and why I am so concerned about the Aquinas college page and yet have not been helping with it. I was at one time AC Boy but the name seemed to relate to a person of younger age, which was no problem, but my account stuffed up in some way or another, so instead of getting it fixed etc.. I just created this new account. Just let it be noted, I do not use wikipedia every day, mabey ever second to third day, but I will help when I can.

Yungur 00:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Tuatha Shield
Thanks for the info! Thats exactly the sort of thing which should be added into the article. &mdash;Moondyne 14:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

names
People should always be list alphabetically by surname(family name) first. Gnangarra 13:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

AfD's
As a courtesy, I'm letting you know that I have nominated 2 of the Aquinas articles for deletion based on notability standards in Wikipedia. See: Articles for deletion/List of alumni of Aquinas College, Perth and Articles for deletion/Old Aquinians Hockey Club (2nd nomination). &mdash;Moondyne 07:42, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * But the real reason i am here is to ask why you have deleted the pages; Grounds at Aquinas College, Perth, Buildings at Aquinas College, Perth and Houses at Aquinas College, Perth =) please explain. thanks Smbarnzy 12:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Barnzy, firstly, the articles haven't been deleted, they've been edited to make them redirects to the main college article. This was done because they were previously discussed at Articles for deletion/Old Aquinians Hockey Club where the decision for all of these sub-articles was "merge and redirect to Aquinas College, Perth".  In case you've forgotten you contributed to that discussion.  If there's anything you still need from those articles its in the edit history.
 * Please do not recreate them under same or similar names. If you do, this would be seen as an attempt to disrupt the process of consensus in Wikipedia and you may find yourself blocked.
 * Thanks for the stub articles on the three men. I'll work on wikifying them over the next few days.
 * As another editor below told you, your template Inderpendant schools in Perth, Western Australia is misspelt and needs to be fixed, including all the school pages you've edited to add in the template. &mdash;Moondyne 14:21, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Template and edits are now fixed now so don't worry about it. &mdash;Moondyne 14:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Spellcheck?
Template makes it look like you havent checked the spelling of all the words - check again in the template! SatuSuro 13:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Student Intranet Portal.jpg)
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Orphaned fair use image (Image:College Website.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:College Website.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable under fair use (see our fair use policy).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. This is an automated message from BJBot 16:17, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Aquinas FAC
Hi, thanks for the message, sorry I didn't reply earlier. I have been involved in editing a number of articles about subjects that I am involved with, and I constantly have to remind myself not to put in original research, not to use my memory as a source, not to include every possible piece of information. It is a challenge! Regarding your questions, I did mean "location", not "geography" - I think the subheading there is not necessary because the section is short. And I would eliminate the arms outside the infobox, including the hockey club seal (which is just the same arms with "hockey club" written over it anyway). If you have any other questions, let me know, I always have a lot of irritating opinions that I'm willing to share...- Dmz5 *Edits**Talk* 20:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Your template
See Template talk:Independent schools in Perth, Western Australia. &mdash;Moondyne 12:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

These three templates: which you created are are inappropriate. The articles concerned now have a massive block of templates on them which looks ugly and serves no purpose. Wikipedia's categorisation system is better for this type of information. &mdash;Moondyne 12:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Catholic Church Schools in Western Australia
 * Christian Brothers secondary schools in Australia
 * Independent schools in Perth, Western Australia

Social justice at Aquinas
Hi there, I've been watching the Aquinas College page improve by leaps and bounds, so well done on your hard work so far.

Just a quick thought. Do you know if the college's "Senior Service Project" or any other aspect of social justice ties in with any ministries within the Edmund Rice Network (such as the Edmund Rice Camps perhaps)? Might just give the section some substance where most schools cannot go beyond saying "We do nice things at our school...", know what I mean? Rob Lindsey 22:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Sport at Aquinas College, Perth
If you find any redundant talk pages, such as Talk:Sport at Aquinas College, Perth, you may request them to be deleted. I've deleted this one. To request deletion, simply add db-talk or similar to the talk page. -- Longhair\talk 12:02, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If you need them deleted, feel free to send me a list. -- Longhair\talk 12:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. -- Longhair\talk 12:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

refs
Generally that happens when yuo miss some little character, in my case its not unusual for me to gte the characters out of order. If you use the show preview buttin you can fix the problems before saving. Gnangarra 12:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

references section on Aquinas College, Perth
Hi Smbarnzy, most welcome. I like the new   format rather than the old     one. You can turn the references into 2 or 3 columns using  or   but the notes warn that this may only work for Firefox users. Happy editing - Peripitus (Talk) 11:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

re: the revert - thanks because on second thoughts my edit didn't make any improvement. I've just gotten used to the templates and tend to use them everywhere.Very good work on this article...it's working out well - Peripitus (Talk) 12:30, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Redirects to Aquinas College, Perth
Hi, I was just curious as to why you have created so many redirect pages to the Aquinas College, Perth article. According to Redirect, redirects should be for plausible misspellings and accepted alternate titles for articles. So, I could see the need for having redirects like Aquinas College Perth, and Aquinas college, perth or Aquinas college perth. But I don't see the need for the redirect pages that are actually longer than the title of the article. It's not plausible that someone will search for them. Just curious, that's all. Leebo 86 17:25, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * My point was that there are a large number of redirect pages that don't meet any of the descriptions for what redirects should be used for as described at Redirect. Leebo 86 11:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Too many redirects
There are 105 redirects to Aquinas College, Perth and a substantial number of them were created by you. This is too many; I can't imagine needing more than two dozen. It's marginally disruptive behavior, and most of these redirects are going to be deleted. Why don't you save somebody else some work, and make a list of the ones that are neither former articles nor likely search terms, and post it over at Redirects for discussion. — Randall Bart 17:38, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The Resilient Barnstar
Hi,

This is just to let you know that you've been doing a great job in your work for Wikipedia recently. In recognition of this I have awarded you the Resilient Barnstar; it has been added to your User Page. Congratulations !

WMMartin 18:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Wesley College Perth
I'm a student at the school, and I'm pretty sure that Rossiter is used for rugby and soccer as well. They currently have rugby posts up right now, and they play soccer there during the summer months. Also Ward has 3 soccer pitches not 2.

Good work :)
You're doing well over there - I'll review the article properly when I have time to do so later this week (this is my final week of freedom so I'm trying to get everything done :)... Re referencing in the lead, I cut it down a bit and more should be done in that respect - I had the same prob with the article I'm trying to get featured and this was the conversation about it. Hope this is of help/use :) Orderinchaos78 14:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The John Bednall Scandal
Hi Barnzy, I put this on the 'talk' page of Wesley. I think this is a fairer way of handling edits we don't agree with. Blanking it is likely to cause friction with other contributors. It is essentially 'true' but not without some problems. I am also about to revert your edit regarding the Head of the river. But if you can produce a reference saying who did win it in those years you can easily undo it. I think you need references to support your edits and reverts, not just terse comments. I apologise in advance if you do know for sure. Glad to see you are still contributing and improving as an editor. Cheers - Fred 15:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC) "'In late 2002 Wesleys principal John Bednall was forced to resign after child pornography was found on his PC. The college has tried it's best to hide this embarassing scandal. However recently a perth judge found that Mr Bednall now a Hobo was actual inococent off all charges laid against him by the school board of directors.' ... was removed from the article as 'false and unref claims regarding J bendal removed'. The reference is Net porn charge against Perth principal dropped whichs makes the 'edit' true despite a need for improvement. Shall we restore it? - Fred 15:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)"
 * I added my 2c worth at Talk:Wesley College, Perth &mdash;Moondyne 02:35, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Good on ya, mate. I always sensed there was a top editor lurking behind the abrupt exterior.  I think the last suggestion by Hesperian is probably the best. He is annoyingly brilliant, but he could not have got there without us.  One thing though, please don't edit or remove my comments - in part or whole. That tends to be frowned upon. My sentence doesn't make sense now, for one thing. Copy, not cut function. Otherwise keep up the good work, best regards - Fred 11:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

GGS Chapel
Out of order mate - take care with your words... SatuSuro 02:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you consider it a joke. Please explain. My first reaction is that there would be enough verifiable sources to make this a good article. I would like to see it expanded a fair bit more though. &mdash;Moondyne 03:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I would not suggest every heritage building is notable, but lots are, especially if you can weave some other facts into the article other than just their heritage value.   One test is, would the article have any incoming links to it other than its parent?  If its notable it presumably would.  I'm personally not familiar with either the Guildford Chapel or the Aquinas one (although I have been in the latter once for a wedding many years ago).  On the face of it, I would have no issues with an Aquinas chapel article as long as it was more than a couple of sentences and was written in the editors own words (i.e. not copied from a website).   It all depends on what's in the article.  &mdash;Moondyne 03:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And, as User:Hesperian has said, you're not just creating it to make a point. &mdash;Moondyne 05:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not replying to your message on my talk page - you have it above and at Hesperians talk page - in fact it all should be at GGS Chapel talk page! - just take it easy, you want to be very careful with what you say to on the admins pages  SatuSuro 07:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Change of mind - try this -
 * You seem to have a very clear misunderstanding of wikipedia. Admins do not determine whether articles exist or not -per se -  they simply apply the principles as long experienced editors - they know the offiical policies and principles of an on line encyclopedia - although at times it is a bit like a bizarre playground for those who work with vandals, and similar creatures


 * (1) so admins dont determine whether an article goes up
 * (2) they will however work on spurious articles that do not have sufficient WP:V or WP:N and a few other issues about  articles -by the way that is in the process of changing to another strategy
 * (3) they will actively get involved in articles that are determined as afd candidates or speedy deletes as well
 * (4) they do not 'give permission; to anyone to start an article or not.
 * (5) when they find fraud and hoax articles they can obliterate those types without reference to anyone else

Because of their experience and their handle on things - admins are always to be listened to before the hunch that we plain eds might have - about a subject or article. Regardless of how few edits we might have done, or how many - admins are there for a purpose - and if you wish to argue with them or contravene advice that they give - better go find that blog or somewhere else off wiki - as you will have missed the point of why they are admins in the first place. Also - if they give hints - or revert things that you might do - well worth going back and stepping back from your own edits and work - to work out why they might have done that. Stop, think, and do nothing - come back later. If you dont like that, go jump in a pool or bash a tree - something that keeps you off the keyboard - as it dosnt help to leave behind stuff that can go against you later!

Hope that clarifies something SatuSuro 08:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Merge of Guildford Grammar Preparatory School
Smbarnzy, that merge was out of line and has been reverted. There was no consensus and no attempt by you to discuss it beforehand. I get the distinct impression that you are making edits to non-Aquinas school articles to make a point. Read the guideline and think very hard before you attempt any further contentious edits. &mdash;Moondyne 08:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't disagreed with the merge however, I just don't believe it should be done until there's a consensus to do so. &mdash;Moondyne 13:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Advisory
I have been advised to ignore you. Any further messages to me either directly or indirectly will be ignored and removed. This is your final warning. Auroranorth 12:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)