User talk:Five Years/Archive 5

'''This is Archive #5 for User talk:Five Years

Barnstars
Thankyou!!!!! I really appreciate the two barnstars! :P --talk to symode09's or Spread the love! 07:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

PSA Page
For your info, I saw that table layout at several articles, including Combined Associated Schools, Independent Schools Association and GPS Schools, Sydney equivalents to PSA.

On a separate but related matter, are you aware of Category:Associations of schools? It appears that some reorganisation into geographical sub-categories (including, say Category:Australian schools associations) might be useful. What do you think? &mdash;Moondyne 03:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

copyvio
I suggest you tag it with Db-reason, noting the copyvio issue (Criteria_for_speedy_deletion) as well as it being a fork of the main AC article. Someone should zap it fairly quickly. I'll do it myself tomorrow if another admin doesn't get there first. Good night. &mdash;Moondyne 17:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

GGS Peer review
I think you missed step 5. at WikiProject_Australia/Peer_review. Also, you removed the peerreview template from the article talk page which provides a link to the peer-review page. You should put that back. &mdash;Moondyne 03:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

First party refs
All us admins are taking turns answering each other's messages this morning. :P Some first party refs for totally uncontroversial stuff is fine (e.g. the fees, for which this might well be the only source of information), but the key article *must* be independently referenced. Also beware of WP:SYN when using a mix of primary and secondary references - a trap that's easy for all of us to fall into. Orderinchaos 05:01, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Requests
I'm only an observer here but surely setting Aquinas College, Perth back to GA is just inviting an edit war as Dahlia Rose had given a reason why she had reset and I cannot identify the reason to reset back to GA. If DahliaRose was mistaken then should there not be a record of the  discussion (apologies if Ive missed it) Victuallers 15:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi again
Fine - Westminster school can be a B - as you saw I was in 2 minds. I was confused cos the project has identified certain schools as good examples but then not rated them. I know we are only volunteers .... but its odd. Oh and thx for getting back on Aquinas college (above). I thought "GA" wasn't given out by one person.... where can I find out the process? Obviously I can find out if you don't have this info to hand.Victuallers 13:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

AfD
Add "_2" to the filename eg Articles for deletion/Name of page to delete_2  in the address bar. If you have any trouble creating the AfDs let me know and I can do it. Orderinchaos 13:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries. Got them all fixed up and templated as well, so they should appear correctly when transcluded in the AfD logs. Orderinchaos 14:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's fine when the process is/can be followed exactly but in these weird sorts of situations with non-standard filenames etc, it sometimes needs a bit of repair work. If ever in any doubt just contact one of us to fix it - the worst that can happen is it runs half a day longer. Orderinchaos 14:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

WA-importance and Perth-importance
It puts the page in a category linked to its importance. As you can understand something with almost no relevance to Australia might have a very high relevance to Perth - and sometimes even the reverse. It's relatively new - we've had it for a month, but if you look at the front pages of WP:WA and WP:PERTH an alarming number of articles show up with no importance rating. Orderinchaos 14:14, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to explain my changes tonight - I mapped PSA to WA, and each of the component schools to Perth (which is a sub-project of WA, so by default all articles in Perth will be articles in the WA project anyway, once we get the kinks ironed out). This avoids double-ups between the two projects, which have slightly different scopes. Makes almost no practical difference (projects are really just organisational tools) but helps with the review and assessment when articles do become GAs or FAs. Orderinchaos 16:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

AC School Song
good point! :) --talk to symode09's or Spread the love! 08:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Uni High Peer Review
I've replied to you at Uni High's peer review. I'm notifying you here, but put my replies there as to keep everything in one place. I hope you don't mind. Miss Mondegreen | Talk  00:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Replied again. Thanks for your comments.  The specificity is really helpful.  Miss Mondegreen | Talk   14:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar
Hey, thanks for the Barnstar, it's appreciated. Sorry I've not had a chance to say something earlier, but the organisation involved with today's Perth Meetup has been doing a few people's heads in particularly with last minute media interest. Look forward to working with you when I can, and please don't be a stranger to the WP:WA project. I'm sure there's a number of key editors out there who are more than happy to work with you on the improvements you have and are intending to make. Thewinchester (talk) 03:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ditto from me. I know that we haven't seen eye-to-eye in the past but I can see that you have grown enormously.   Keep up the good work and get started on some articles away from schools - eg. towns, suburbs etc.  &mdash;Moondyne 03:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Whole-heartedly agree with the above. Orderinchaos 11:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Suburbs/LGAs
As far as breaking it down - anything between Yanchep and Singleton to as far east as Shire of Mundaring and Shire of Kalamunda limits goes into Perth, anything else (including Mandurah as far north as Madora Bay) - WA. Reason for this particular breakdown is the ABS definition of Perth. Orderinchaos 11:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 * BTW re assessments - Perth LGAs are split between Mid (the smaller ones, except Perth itself) and High (the larger ones). Perth gets a Top. As for the suburbs most get a Low but some exceptions apply (basically reading "importance" quite literally - with about 10-11 getting "high" and a slightly larger number "mid") Orderinchaos 11:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Nah - not wrong person necessarily - but we were talking about this at the meetup this morning - and he watches my talk page anyways - we try to go lower where possible :) SatuSuro 12:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Darlot Cup
I notice one independent reference on this article... Do you have another independent reference to lock down notability?Garrie 05:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think the Carter one sounds more independent - the other two are from participants so they cannot really assert notability for the association they are members of. But once secondary references assert notability of the event then by all means, use all the primary references you need to get details accurate.Garrie 22:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

In future, the way to handle a situation where you want to repost deleted material is to create the article in your user space, then go to WP:DRV with a request to post it into article space. If you choose to do so when your block is expired, I suggest you have a look at Courtney, A. (2004) PSA Trophies, which includes a history of the Darlot Cup. It was published by the Scotch College Archives, so is not a third party source, but it is still a hell of a lot better than your silly carnival handbook.

And for cripes sake, you're not going to establish notability by telling us about the format and points system! This website refers to the Darlot Cup in reference to Simon Katich: "He was a star schoolboy cricketer who gave notice of his exceptional talent when he scored 207 for Trinity College in Perth's tough Darlot Cup competition."

Quotes like that suggest that the Darlot Cup is held in high regard by cricketers, or at least by the cricket media; and that it has played a role in the development of some outstanding cricketers. These are the kinds of factors that help establish notability. (I'm not suggesting that you can draw the above conclusions from the quote in the article itself - that would be OR)

Hesperian 01:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

PSA Swimming
I've reverted the above back to a redirect per the previous decision at Articles for deletion/PSA Athletics. Please don't arbitrarily overturn community consensus. &mdash;Moondyne 12:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I feel that they PSA Swimming, PSA Athletics and Darlot Cup meet WP:N. Your thoughts.... Twenty Years 12:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What do I think?  All three were previously discussed and the consensus was merge and redirect all to Public Schools Association.  &mdash;Moondyne 12:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for recreation of deleted material. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text below.


 * In defense of my edits there - i created the Darlot Cup article in response to an editors vote in that discussion (the AfD consensus you mentioned earlier) who voted "Weak Keep" - due to the Darlot Cup competition being a pathway to the Western Australian cricket team. This user who is an admin, has a good rep and i felt that going on what he said - i have grounds to make that article. Twenty Years 12:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, i disagree with the consensus - the vote was 4 Keep, 3 Delete, and 4 merge - hardly a convincing "consensus" Twenty Years 12:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The issue here is whether or not the community is willing to countenance a separate article on the Darlot Cup. All the people who voted delete said "no" to having separate articles; all the people who voted merge said "no" to having separate articles; SunStar Net's "Keep" vote was in fact "Keep but merge per above. It's too disparate to have separate articles." And my weak keep vote, in which I said "Whether or not they should be spread across so many pages is another matter; I would not object to a merger." is obviously rather doubtful on that point and should be left out. That leaves an consensus of 8 to 2. Or, to put it another way, your desire to recreate the article has clearly opposed by 8 out of 9 people! You should not have recreated the article. If I was in your position, I certainly would not have, so please don't use me as justification for your behaviour.
 * Hesperian 01:20, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

After your endless disruptive edits under your old account User:Smbarnzy (link to previous warnings), and after me thinking a only a couple of days ago that you had apparently finally seen the light (see above) I was wrong. I'm very sad. &mdash;Moondyne 12:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Man, i felt that the community would support the articles i have made. I have made very constructive edits in the last 3 months since i learnt more about policy. And please, i just think this is plain unjustified. Twenty Years 12:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, ive decided to give up on this. Ill just serve the unjustified ban, and get on with life - in reality, does 24 hrs of no wiki matter? no. I should get back to study anyway. See everyone @ ~9pm 2morow. Best Wishes, and good night all. Twenty Years 13:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Adam Gilchrist
I didn't revert that back, I reverted "wicketkeepers" back to wicketkeeper.--THUG CHILD z  06:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello and Joined
Hello, yes I have been editing the TC page as I am a current student and noticed that our page, compared to other PSA schools is quite shameful with little information. I've joined the PSA group too. Thanks! Hereistom 04:35, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Trinity College, Perth
Listen, i'm quite busy this afternoon and I have noticed that Hereistom has been editing this article quite heavily in a manner which does meet a bucketload of WP guidelines include WP:NOT, WP:NPOV, WP:OWN, WP:CITE, and is uploading images he doesn't own. The user has not responded to a welcome or other message on his talk, nor does he have the email function switched on to assist in building a dialogue to bring his edits into line. If you can get in touch with him and keep an eye on the article it would be appreciated. Thewinchester (talk) 05:59, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Tables
I presume you mean tables alongside each other. If so, there's probably several ways to do it, but here's how I've done it before.

Good luck. &mdash;Moondyne 04:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

PSA
I have a Copy of a Book Called PSA Trophies, it was compiled by A. Courtner of the Scotch College Archives, and was printed in March 1992. In addition to this i have the Christ Church Grammar School Mitres 1989-2002, 2004, as well as several PSA Interschool Swimming programmes, and an Athletics Programme from 2003, which has all the new names of the Cups & Trophies, as well as a historical list of winners. I would be happy to lend them to you if you like.2001atlas10 10:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I Moved Cross Country to keep them all Alphabetically, I thought this was the best way to do it? I was thinking about adding some other trophies (For instance the Quads Inters Swimming and Aths, and the Tregonning Trophy (Hockey bewtween Hale & CCGS), but wasn;t sure if it was appropriate for this page? 2001atlas10 11:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes,CCGS Old Boy, and have been a hockey coach at CCGS for 7 years, my dad went to Wesley, and ilove my sport. Yeah CCGS, Wesley, Scotch, & Trinity compete in Quadrangular Swimming and Athletics carnivals every year, what do you think? I wouldn't have all the information available?2001atlas10 11:30, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Question
I have two things you may be able to help me with:

According to my records Water Polo only became an official PSA Sport in 2002, yet you have it as 1992. I attended high school 1992-1996, and would've played Water Polo, but it wasn't a Sport (we could only play it in 4th Term, if swimming was your chosen sport)?? Golf PSA Sport?? Surfing PSA Sport?? Secondly,how do I centre text on a page? Cheers 2001atlas10 11:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The Win
(my user page has a larger version) - just wanted to inform everyone of my recent success. I won the coach's award for my efforts this year in cricket at The AC. Yeow
 * Good work! :) Orderinchaos 15:28, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Tertiary Entrance Exam
When you get back, could you look at this please. There's no rush. Cheers. &mdash;Moondyne 08:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks. When you can get to it. It was prev a copy-paste from the student handbook with WAY too much detail.  I chopped it back a lot, based on something i found on the UWA website but it needs redoing by someone who understands it a lot more than I do. &mdash;Moondyne 09:02, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

School notability
''Also, something has been troubling me while i have been away from the wiki: "why are private schools more notable than government schools" - i find this odd. Thoughts? Twenty Years 09:15, 3 May 2007 (UTC)''
 * Umm, why do you say they are? IMHO, the notability test for schools should be based on a question of whether they differentiate themselves from all the other garden variety schools.  Outstanding academic results, notable former students, heritage values, unusual facilities would be some of these tests.  In practice, private schools often have several of these criteria.  But public schools like say Rossmoyne Senior High School and Perth Modern School do also.  But I'm quite certain that the school being private does not in itself make it notable.  Each one needs to be assessed on its merits.  &mdash;Moondyne 13:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Most private schools are not notable, however most of the ones people would readily think of are notable. (The one I went to, for example, is definitely not notable, even though it is the subject of coverage in several independent publications, none of which were in any way flattering to it :D) With state high schools, I tend to feel most are notable mainly due to their size - although that isn't a notability ground, it tends to set up the grounds for notability in other ways, like some of the areas Moondyne mentioned, or a lot of press discussion (there is room for a discussion of Churchlands, City Beach, Carine, Scarborough and Kewdale on that ground alone). Good luck with your studies btw :) I remember that stage in my education all too well - it's a hard slog on the last lap, so to speak. Orderinchaos 15:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Gosh it was so long ago I can hardly remember it. Actually I can (just) and it was a hard slog. &mdash;Moondyne 15:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If I may offer a perspective, the notability criterion seems to have finally settled on something eminently sensible - a subject is notable iff there is a reliable third party publication about it. Neither the average public school nor the average private school have been the subject of a reliable third party publication, so neither are notable. However, there are a few schools that do have third party publications, and these are almost always elite schools with a long history, i.e. typically private schools. Hesperian 00:29, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Moved Comment - Brettwest
The comment below was moved from archive #5 - the user incorrectly posted it to archive 5 instead of here - Twenty Years 16:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey twenty years, i replied to your comments on my talk page: Brettwest 09:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Syme Cup
Have never Heard of it. Reverend Syme is the Current Headmster of Scotch though. It may be that a prior trophy has been renamed?

The 99th Annual Athletics Programme i have says that there are 17 PSA Trophies (Aths, BBall, Baddy, Cricket, Cross C, Footy, Golf, Hockey, Rowing HOR, Rowing CS, Rugby, Soccer, Surfing, Swimming, Tennis, VBall, W Polo) of which 11 carry the names of former teachers. So the Syme CUp if it exists is not included.

It may be worth seeing Peter Rickey (PSA Sport Secretary) i think he still works at Aquinas(or the individual sports secretaries), to see if he has a history of results for everything (All Sports), Terms 1 & 4 (Can find out what they are called, and particularly for the newer sports (W Polo, VBall, Badminton, Surfing, Golf, & Hamer Cup) as there are conflicting results.

Copyright
Yes, they are copyright violations. Logos can only be used on Wikipedia where there is a legitimate encyclopaedic reason to illustrate what they look like. e.g. an article on a school would have a legitimate reason to illustrate the school's logo. But here they are merely used for decorative purposes. You should remove them from the template. Hesperian 00:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Edmund Rice Administration Wing
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Orphaned fair use image (Image:Front_building.jpg)
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AfD nomination of List of Western Australian JSHAA Member Schools
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AfD nomination of List of Victorian JSHAA Member Schools
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