User talk:FiverFan65

May 2012
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, but at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Harmony Kendall, did not appear to be constructive and has been automatically reverted (undone) by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.
 * Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Note that human editors do monitor recent changes to Wikipedia articles, and administrators have the ability to block users from editing if they repeatedly engage in vandalism.
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 * The following is the log entry regarding this warning: Harmony Kendall was changed by FiverFan65 (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.878784 on 2012-05-28T07:30:40+00:00 . Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 07:30, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

June 2012
Please do not add promotional material to Wikipedia, as you did to Hazel. While objective prose about beliefs, products or services is acceptable, Wikipedia is not intended to be a vehicle for soapboxing, advertising or promotion. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 07:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment, I'm not sure that this user's contribution was intended as advertising, but it does appear to be a bit off topic unless there was a section on "Hazel in fiction" or something like that. Pine✉ 09:38, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for wanting to do the right thing!

Pine✉ 09:03, 3 June 2012 (UTC) 

Hello!
I see you've been busy adding characters to List of fictional cats in literature! I appreciate all the hard work you've done, and I just wanted to let you know to keep it up! I wanted to bring to your attention that it seems you've added a few with no references. While having a few characters that aren't referenced isn't an issue, this can open the door to cruft and the list can become unimaginably large, you may want to consider finding some references or they may be challenged and removed. Again, thanks! Ncboy2010 (talk) 13:35, 21 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi! All day long I've been thinking about some bad judgments on my part (adding an unnamed cat was one I've winced over for hours), and not until now could I get to the computer. I came here ready to make some big fixes - and of course I should have realized that my friends at Wikipedia would be sure to alert me. Since I'm a newbie, I'm extra grateful for commentary.
 * Maybe you can also tell me: I created my first article a couple of nights ago ("The Redhead") and I thought that I had submitted it for review, but the top of the page reads:
 * Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The Redhead
 * Article not currently submitted for review.
 * This is a draft Articles for Creation submission. It is not currently pending review. There is no deadline, you can take your time writing this draft.


 * I went through the "Click Here" and "save page" steps twice, but it still says that. What am I overlooking?


 * (Unfortunately, it's very late and I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get back here.)


 * Thanks, everyone, for being so wonderful and helpful!
 * FiverFan65 (talk) 06:34, 22 June 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65
 * I'm afraid I don't know much about the review process, as I've never personally used it. The reason I mentioned cruft was because, as you can see here:|here, the list used to be un-godly huge and full of well, you know, crap. I've worked hard to pare these lists down, convert them to tables with more information than "Cat from tv show" and divide them in a logical manner. Ncboy2010 (talk) 15:20, 22 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Ncboy, you're great, and I do appreciate avoiding cruft where it's not wanted! Anyone who searches for my articles on cats in SF and Fantasy will find that they have symbolic or thematic meaning, and I didn't add any simply because they appear in a story. (In fact, I was aghast to see I'd actually added a hint of OR, and have deleted it.) Er, I admit that I included the "unnamed black cat who eats humans" out of vanity: the editor of the journal where that was published has been telling people for years that he thinks it's the funniest peer-reviewed article ever written, partly because of how I wrote about that idiotic black cat. I can understand why you might delete that!
 * I do wish I could somehow include what my rocket scientist friend told me, though, about what to feed cats in space. But that would go under "cat food," anyway.
 * (I'm sort of an NCgirl, because some of my happiest days were spent in North Carolina.)
 * FiverFan65 (talk) 04:33, 24 June 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Help me No question - Mdann52 (talk) 10:06, 4 July 2012 (UTC) Oh, geez, I just realized. In the section "Tobermory" in "List of fictional cats in literature," I might have committed OR. Please see where I wrote:
 * "Saki's biographer comments, "The cat eludes the strychnine left out for him and falls instead in combat with a big yellow Tom from the rectory. Not a hero's death but an honorable one, and comedy depends heavily on a sense of honor."

When I entered that, I was thinking simply of "Wikipedia doesn't avoid spoilers." (a), I did use that commentary in my original article. (b), I'm not mentioning my article, and it is not "in-universe." So, under (a), should I delete it? Or under (b), is it okay? I'll use your answer as a guide for future edits. Thank you! FiverFan65 (talk) 05:52, 24 June 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65


 * I've spent the past few days reading Wikipedia's Guidelines, and have really enjoyed reading them!
 * (I'm actually really good at writing Guidelines. I enjoy writing them, and other necessary documentation that many folks consider "boring" stuff that's important only for corporations and such things.)
 * Re Wikipedia's rules and guidelines, (June 24) I've absorbed most of them. As a librarian, I really do understand the rules, guidelines, and what some consider merely "hints." I expect that I might still make some mistakes, but I really want to try hard to be an excellent contributor!

FiverFan65 (talk) 11:44, 24 June 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Help request answered

 * As you may be aware, your article has gone through the review process. Next time, try looking at the BOTTOM of the page for the WP:AFC box!  Mdann52 (talk) 15:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! FiverFan65 (talk) 03:00, 26 June 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via real time chat with helpers, or on the [ reviewer's talk page]
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! France 3470   ( talk ) 12:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Welcome

 * Although you might be aware of many of the above, still posting the links for your handy reference -- D Big X ray  10:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 28
Hi. When you recently edited List of fictional cats in film, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Jonesy (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 14:01, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I never thought of that. My bad! I will learn about Dab. Thanks! FiverFan65 (talk) 04:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Hello, FiverFan65. You have new messages at Fuhghettaboutit's talk page. --11:21, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via real time chat with helpers, or on the [ reviewer's talk page]
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Loriski (talk) 04:35, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via real time chat with helpers, or on the [ reviewer's talk page]
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! avs5221(talk&#124;contrib) 11:38, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Loss of session data
Working on "Watership Down." I honestly thought I was doing the very simplest of fixes, and correcting when I saw a typo. But I got this:

"Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still does not work, try logging out and logging back in."

I'm a newbie; I don't know what Session Data is (although I expect it is what it sounds like. Still, always make sure, right?).

If I send this, and then log out and in, will this all vanish, as in a time travel story? Well, if THAT happened, the few of us involved in it will all become millionnaires, I suspect! If only. Thanks for helping out, guys and gals. Okay, I'll do that log out and in.
 * Don't worry about it - the servers got a bit too busy and couldn't cope with demand. It happens from time to time. Just wait a few minutes and try your edit again. I have never actually had to log out and in again, but that's worth trying if all else fails. JohnCD (talk) 08:30, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you! I suspected it wasn't aimed at me personally; but thank you for being there and for verifying! FiverFan65 (talk) 08:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65
 * I despise "loss of session data"! Basically, anytime you make an edit and you don't post it within a certain amount of time, say more than 15 minutes,, the servers lose track or time out or something. I never click save/post/submit on any online forum, website, etc. without at least highlighting and copying my proposed text, and if it's lots of text that I've slaved over, I usually throw it into an offline document I keep for just that purpose.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 10:40, 6 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Fuhghettaboutit, thanks, Fiona

I'm confused again! I've been editing the Watership Down page and, after having done so about six times, this time I'm getting the message:
 * Are you sure you want to leave this page? Leaving this page may cause you to lose any changes you have made.

Three times I've chosen "Stay On This Page," but would "Leave This Page" somehow be a better choice? Because each time I choose "Stay on This Page" I am sent to an Internet Explorer page listing various hits for "Watership Down." Thanks!!! FiverFan65 (talk) 09:20, 9 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65


 * Maybe you inadvertently pressed the delete key when your cursor is not active inside the edit box (in my browser doing so takes me back to the previous page, but thankfully there is that dialog box that interrupts the process and asks if i would like to stay).
 * I would say: choose to stay on the page, and then once you have finished editing click the button.  benzband  ( talk ) 09:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm using Firefox though, not IE. benzband  ( talk ) 09:55, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, but no, that isn't what happened. I think it's something with IE that I need to resolve. I am super grateful that you took the time to write and explain, and I will certainly try it out. FiverFan65 (talk) 15:09, 9 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65
 * As you said, probally a software problem on your computer, not IE. Mdann52 (talk) 16:05, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Watership Down plot summary
Hi there FiverFan65,

You may have noticed that your recent edits to Watership Down have been reverted. I've left a message on that article's talk page (the article's talk page that offers an explanation/discussion. However, I wanted to also send a message to you personally. I know that I have removed work that you gave a lot of time and effort to and I really hesitated before I did it. Your work really is appreciated by me (and I'm sure others) and I'm glad that you've decided to help out. This isn't a personal attack on you, but something that I think needed to be done for the good of Wikipedia. This place does have a bit of a learning curve and I know that when I started out I was sometimes disheartened when other editors removed work that I had spent a lot of time on. Please don't be discouraged; Wikipedia needs new editors like you! I think it's great that you are contributing to the Watership Down article, and I would suggest that you read How to write a plot summary, which is a very helpful guideline that I often use myself. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to reply on the talk page of the article (if it's a general response) or write on my talk page (if it's meant just for me).


 * Mr. Absurd, I appreciate your comments, and I take them very seriously! I am having to un-learn my librarian habits and that, really, is the worst learning curve - as a librarian, I could make a dozen changes in a couple of minutes without users noticing anything.
 * Of course I am not hurt, or taking it personally, or having any other negative reaction, I promise.
 * This is a case of my knowing Watership Down too well, and writing long in order to edit later - which, of course, is absolutely contrary to WP policy. I am embarrassed and am always happy to be corrected and tutored.
 * I really hate that I have entered problems which others must fix, for all kinds of reasons! I mean, not only that I've created extra work, but because I've been an editor for others for so many years, and now I'm learning to be humble.
 * Trust me, I'll consult from now on, before I do anything besides changing typos.
 * And since you're so kind, I'll come now to your Talk Page.

FiverFan65 (talk) 15:17, 9 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Again, thank you for your contributions and please ask me if you have any questions. Mr. Absurd (talk) 14:08, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Seinfeld Eps Additions which I would like Supervised; and a Question Re Citations Needed
Hi all! The Big Salad is topped with the warning box: This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources.

I've added three citations which I hope are acceptable. Will someone please check my work? Thanks! FiverFan65 (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

And have now added extra citations and Critical Response to The Soup Nazi. Thanks! FiverFan65 (talk) 05:05, 13 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

... and to The Chinese Restaurant. I will appreciate anyone who will take the time to look at these.

NEXT QUESTION, concerning the last: I want to mention "The Chinese Restaurant" as a famous example among many famous examples of stories which exploit delayed hopes among the characters and delayed expectations from the audience. The first example that came to my mind was Henry James's The Figure in the Carpet, but I'm getting away from my point.

When I've seen "[citation needed]" on various pages, I assumed that an editor had inserted it to incite the author to supply what was needed. Remember, I'm a newbie. Is that actually a bracketed request from the author for somebody ELSE to supply the info? I could have helped, in literary pages, so many times! But this is a protocol I'm not familiar with.

I'm not going to add Original Research to this particular Seinfeld ep until given guidance; I do really want to know what the guidelines are. Thanks, all of you! FiverFan65 (talk) 07:01, 13 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65


 * You don't need to wait for someone else to remove the box from the top; as soon as you add refs, just remove the box. As for the [citation needed]: yes, that means anyone is encouraged to find sources and add them. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 08:10, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, thank you! I thought maybe an Editor needed to remove the box. You are great! Thank you!

FiverFan65 (talk) 08:17, 13 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65


 * YOU are an editor! :) Pine✉ 08:32, 13 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I think I hadn't, yet, thought of myself that way! Yay! Well, then, here is a kitten for you: -- Wait, I couldn't get the picture to you. It's my tiny black kitten when he had blue eyes. [Sigh] I'll have to learn how to upload pictures.
 * Thank you, again! FiverFan65 (talk) 09:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Help me
 * I am so sorry to return to this question, but I promise that I learn quickly. What I can't figure out is how to remove the box discussed above. After having spent a while editing and adding citations to another Seinfeld page ("The Muffin Tops"), I tried several times, and also looked for help in the Editing guidelines. By this point, I need someone to explain directly. Thanks again, all of you! FiverFan65 (talk) 06:36, 14 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65
 * Hi again Fiver! Okay, to remove the code simply look for the template unreferenced. Templates appear like this The template in the Muffin Tops appeared through this code:  . That is the template unreferenced with a date parameter added. The advice you received above was good but was slightly incomplete. While adding citations to an entirely unreferenced article moots the unreferenced template since it states that there are NO references, unless the article is, following your edit, quite well sourced i.e., you did a really thorough involved job and made sure everything was referenced, it should not be simply removed but replaced with refimprove instead. It's great that you've improved the Muffin Tops, but it's certain still a spottily referenced article, so I have changed the template to refimprove here. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 08:08, 14 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi! Always great to hear from you, you know! Okay, I understand what you've said. Honestly, as it's an article about a 22-minute episode, I wasn't certain how thorough-going I should be, but so many people have written about it that I can surely add more (as long as they're good sources, that is, not puff jobs). For now I'm going to bed, but will continue later. Thanks so much! FiverFan65 (talk) 10:04, 14 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Dybbuk box and The Possession
Hi all! After reading a story in Entertainment Weekly about the Dybbuk Box, I've been editing that article. It's about the movie "The Possession," which has a Wikipedia page, but I can't figure out why the hotlink from the Box article to the movie article doesn't work. Can you help? Thanks very much.
 * Fixed ; formatting of simple titles is movie titles is Title; others are Disambiguated movie or Disambiguated movie . Dru of Id (talk) 04:39, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Brilliant. I understand. Thanks!FiverFan65 (talk) 04:50, 30 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Barnstar for you!

 * A Barnstar for me? I can't tell you how delighted I am! Thanks! FiverFan65 (talk) 06:51, 30 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Terminology for articles about actors
I just edited the article on Jeffrey Dean Morgan to remove the terms "currently," "recently" and "upcoming," because when I write for Salem Press, they instruct contributors not to use them as they are not good encyclopedia-speak. So, I did that out of habit. Then I checked the MOS for films and I don't see any such instructions. Should I ignore such terms, then? The article on Morgan was written long enough ago that "recently" meant 2008. Thanks! FiverFan65 (talk) 22:12, 30 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65


 * Please use the 'New section' tab at top to put the helpme template in the same section. Such phrases are avoided by experienced editors per Manual of Style/Words to watch, especially in section headings, which, when altered, break incoming links that go directly to the section. Before changing section titles, please use the toolbox/what links here and consider updating those incoming links rather than leave them to be discovered by others. Dru of Id (talk) 22:58, 30 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, I understand. I didn't realize the problems I was causing and won't do it again. Sorry; and thanks very much for the link. FiverFan65 (talk) 23:17, 30 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Problem with Fonts
I've been editing The Omega Glory and Reference #3 appears in bold, with parts being italicized that shouldn't be. My newb-ness is showing, because I can't see where my "programming" went wrong. Can you help? Thanks so much. FiverFan65 (talk) 06:36, 31 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65
 * You had used three ' in a row to add an apostrophe. Next time you can replace 's with 's. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OHHHHH. I see. THANK you for solving my mystery! FiverFan65 (talk) 07:41, 31 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Section Headings for Secondary Works in articles about Fiction
The MOS for fiction helpfully provides a "List of exemplary articles" and I see that many of these have, first, a heading "Themes" and then one for "Reception" - the latter appears to be for book reviews, book sales, and so on, so the former would be for criticism. Starship Troopers has, instead, a section called "Controversy" and then a subsection, "Literary critiques". Hitchhiker's Guide, one of the articles cited, doesn't have any of these.

But I've also seen these:

Criticism and interpretation Literary significance and reception Analysis

Should I stick with "Themes" when I want to add a section for criticism? FiverFan65 (talk) 07:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65
 * If there's controversy, include it, but if not no need to force it in. I generally stick to plot, production, themes, style, and reception (such as at Ruma Maida) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:31, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Just use whatever headings make the most sense in the article. Mdann52 (talk) 11:52, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
 * And all of this sounds like good common sense! Me, I prefer to follow rules - especially now that I've made a few mistakes and am learning from them - but I'm always grateful when the rules are common-sensical. Thanks very much, I appreciate it! FiverFan65 (talk) 07:53, 1 August 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

How do I return to the work I did in my Sandbox?
I am bereft! I had a ref problem, so I clicked on "Help," but the back button gave me the message that my page had expired! I'm creating a page for Quvenzhané Wallis, star of Beasts of the Southern Wild, and I put a LOT of work into it. Please tell me that my info is not gone forever! Thank you, thank you! FiverFan65 (talk) 05:06, 4 August 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

And I started a new Sandbox while I kept gathering information - and THAT page disappeared too, because "Internet Explorer stopped working," which is no one's fault, but is dreadfully frustrating. FiverFan65 (talk) 06:19, 4 August 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65


 * Hi!... well... this is a record of your contributions. You can always find it by clicking on "My contribution" in the upper right-hand corner. That's all that's in the system.
 * It seems you did not hit save once, only preview... If Internet explorer keeps messing up, consider using Firefox or something else...
 * Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 09:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but it seems that your computer glitch or Internet Explorer glitch has lost whatever you were doing. If you click "My contributions" at the top of the page, you can see all your contributions, and they are not there. There has never been a page saved at Quvenzhané Wallis or at User:FiverFan65/sandbox. As an admin, I can also see whether you have any contributions that have been deleted, but there are none. I can only suggest, for the future, work in a sandbox (or a userspace draft, which you can start by going to Help:userspace draft) and click "Save page" from time to time so as to preserve your work. I like Firefox, too - that' a useful suggestion of Seb's.


 * Looking at your user page, here is some more advice: the layout looks odd because you have leading spaces on some of your lines. That doesn't work in Wiki markup: in order to indent, you use one or more colon characters : at the start of a line, which indents the whole paragraph. To make a list with bullet points, start each line with * or to make a numbered list start each line with # - see WP:Cheatsheet for a quick guide or Help:Wiki markup for more detail. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 09:58, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you, all. Seb, I've been advised to use Firefox by a friend, so now seems the time to begin. John, I was working in my Sandbox (see the subject line), and my own ignorance kept me from hitting "Save" - I did, in fact, copy the first draft into a Word doc, but should have kept doing so.
 * I appreciate your lesson about Wiki markup: I am a newbie indeed!
 * It's not the end of the world; I'll start the page again. In fact, considering how much attention young Quvenzhané is receiving, I half expected to find a page about her by now.
 * Thanks so much for your advice! FiverFan65 (talk) 21:16, 4 August 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

In response to your feedback
It's great to hear that you're having a postive experience here. I see you're doing some editing on Seinfeld pages, it's a topic I enjoy as well. The new content you're adding looks good, but watch the plot section doesn't get too long (more on that here). Good Luck!

Millermk (talk) 07:37, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

&#160;


 * Hello, I am so pleased to hear from you! Clearly, as you suggest, I do need some guidance; and as I am a newbie, I am always, always happy for suggestions and help! Millermk, you have now become a friend, though I hope that I will not badger you much. I am super grateful that you took your special time to write to me! FiverFan65 (talk) 08:06, 4 August 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Northanger Abbey - concern about plagiarism
Hi all! I've spent some hours on "Northanger Abbey" today and hoped to nail a precise quote. A previous contributor to this page remarks:

"Austen biographer Claire Tomalin speculates that Austen may have begun this book, which is more explicitly comic than her other works and contains many literary allusions that her parents and siblings would have enjoyed, as a family entertainment—a piece of lighthearted parody to be read aloud by the fireside."

I didn't find Tomalin's book online, but I did find the above sentence, not a word substituted, in "Northanger Abbey: An Overview" at http://www.janeausten.co.uk/northanger-abbey-an-overview/

Surprised, I compared that essay with the WP page, and they are distressingly similar. I suppose it's possible that the Overview author contributed here, but wouldn't that violate NOR?

Is it best if I assume that the Overview copied WP? (Though I'd have expected better from The Jane Austen Centre.) FiverFan65 (talk) 03:22, 5 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65


 * The Wikipedia version is much older than the Overview. Either the Overview copied Wikipedia or both copied another source. Herr Beethoven (talk) 04:11, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, I did observe the relative dates when I went to "View History." I suppose there's nothing to be done. Danke, Herr Beethoven! FiverFan65 (talk) 04:38, 5 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65

Twin Peaks
Regarding this edit you made to the Twin Peaks article, did you intend to finish that sentence? The paragraph you added to the critical acclaim subsection is unfinished, and, in its current state, makes no sense. You should take a look at it. Thanks! --- The Old Jacobite <sub style="font-family:Courier New; color:#006600;">The '45  12:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi! I remember that I got interrupted while working on it, but looking at the article now, I'm not seeing what you refer to. Did you mean the "... saying, '..." part? Thanks so much for overseeing my work; I'm still new and trying to grab a hundred different ways of editing at once. Cheers! FiverFan65 (talk) 05:22, 7 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65
 * View History shows me it's been updated often. I do hope the article reads well now! FiverFan65 (talk) 05:27, 7 August 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65

Wikipedia Loves Libraries
In case you're interested, have a look at http://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/news/11012011/libraries-tap-crowd-power and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Loves_Libraries. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#008C3A 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#01796F -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;"><b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b><sup style="color:#01796F;">✉ 09:57, 13 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello! Oh, I love you! I am so grateful to you for showing me this!
 * I want to alert Robert J. Sawyer, who raved about crowd-sourcing in his recent "WWW Trilogy."
 * Dear Pine, you are a good friend - and I should have answered you hours ago, but I've been working raptly on a science fiction short story about time travel, and calendars, and a world in which time travels in non-Euclidean ways, and I frankly was worried that I would receive a message to say that I'd written something massively bad and was going to be, loike, disbarred from WP.
 * I have absolutely no reason to feel anything but friendship from everyone I've met here, and I've also written a fairly good draft of a fairly ambitious story. So I apologize for replying tardily, and I will never forget that You Sent Me a Kitten! For that, I would bail you out of jail, you know! FiverFan65 (talk) 06:36, 15 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65


 * Having read fully, I repeat my thanks, and will forward this to colleagues who will be excited and interested! You're the best. My kitten says so. FiverFan65 (talk) 06:47, 15 August 2012 (UTC)FiverFan65


 * :) Have you named the kitten? <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#008C3A 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#01796F -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;"><b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b><sup style="color:#01796F;">✉ 08:30, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I've named this little black kitten "Boris." And, Pine, I have some great and funny reasons why, but I don't know how to reach you at your own talk page, which seems filled with trees and no cats. PLEASE, Pine, I need to learn how to direct my way around WP.

Big hugs, FiverFan65 (talk) 07:56, 16 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65


 * Hi there. You can post a new message at user talk:Pine by clicking the "New Section" button. <span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#008C3A 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#01796F -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;"><b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b><sup style="color:#01796F;">✉ 10:32, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Do we avoid citing sites like Cracked.com?
Hi, all!

I've been reading some books and essays about "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and was reminded of a disingenuously outraged article about fan fictions over at Cracked.

I have three friends who write Buffy slash fiction, and WP of course has a tiny section about slash.

I am not particularly inclined to make a link to Cracked, but a friend sent the link http://www.cracked.com/article_16554_the-5-most-baffling-sex-scenes-in-history-fanfiction.html,

and I would like to know where "we" (I mean, the Administrators) draw the line.

This is not URLesque, not Urban dictionary. But Wikipedia is not Funk & Wagnalls, either.

I'll be happy if you can tell me where this Encyclopedia draws its lines! Thanks very much. FiverFan65 (talk) 07:03, 15 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65


 * The answer to your question "Do we avoid citing sites like Cracked.com?" is yes, per this and other reliable sources noticeboard discussions. -- Mrmatiko (talk) 08:15, 15 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, THANK you, Mrmatiko, for guiding me away from a mistake. WP is an *encyclopedia*. Some friends think it ought to include everything - I am so glad that I wrote one persistent friend that there are plenty of sites for "everything" and she does not have to look hard or very far.
 * I really do appreciate all the help I get, here, and you, Mrmatiko, are my most recent friend. And .... and I've been trying to figure out how to upload a picture of my little kitten to you, but I haven't learned that, yet. So, I would say, "Here's a kitten for you!" but that joy of learning is still in the future. Maybe tomorrow. FiverFan65 (talk) 07:51, 16 August 2012 (UTC) Fiverfan65

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Paleo
Hi - I've removed your addition to paleontology. Firstly, it was WP:undue weight re: two novels. Seems to do the topic justice a separate article would be needed as there is no shortage of material possibilities. Perhaps more importantly the sourcing was solely to the books themselves and we need good secondary sources which discuss the books rather than a synopsis based on your reading of the books. See WP:reliable sources. Vsmith (talk) 10:19, 20 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you! You're absolutely right; I simply looked to see if there was a page on Paleo in Lit, and there wasn't. I wasn't thinking far enough ahead. May I take your comments as encouragement to start such a page? Because I'd love to! I still feel very much like a newbie and am always grateful for correction and steering, Vsmith. I'll go read the article re undue weight, and probably add it to my Word document on "Editing Wikipedia". Thanks so much for taking the time, I really appreciate it. All best! FiverFan65 (talk) 07:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65


 * Vsmith, I've looked at the "Undue" essay and I thoroughly understand. (Also: very relieved that we avoid the stupid journalistic practice of getting 2 different views and giving them equal time, when one is clearly in the [Fiver shouts] scientific minority.) I'm super good at two things related here: creating bibliographies and reading. It happens that I have time now to work on this, and am excited. So thanks again!


 * As a follow-up: This is an encyclopedia, I'm a librarian, and I know how to tell good encyclopedia articles from bad, how to tell which are written for children from those written for adults. I find at WP, much too often, articles that do not conform to my standards as a librarian (and professional writer). On topics that I'm absolutely sure of, I have no problem wading in, using (so to speak) a machete against the undergrowth - but on other topics I'm nervous. (Do you remember, a few years ago, when someone changed the spelling of the psych term "affect" in a number of articles about psychology, to "effect"? It was swiftly changed back by pros. But I remember, at the time, thinking that if I ever joined WP, I'd better be very careful about topics that I do not know thoroughly.) CONCLUSION: Like the person who changed to "effect," I did leap to make changes without checking first with the pros. I won't do that again (I hope), because it's a waste of your time. And I learn quickly.


 * OTOH, I've also read that we should not waste our own time looking for mistakes to correct. Well, if I come to an article that direly needs punctuational and syntactical correction, I'll use my judgment. But from now on, if it comes to semantic correction, I'll check in with you (plural). Is that okay? And again - thanks so much! I'm learning every day. FiverFan65 (talk) 08:18, 28 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65

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Alfred Bester
Hello, everyone, especially Bester fans!

The Alfred Bester page is fairly long, but I could add to it. My question is: Should I?

I have at home the manuscript of a book-length bibliography on Bester, a writer whom I spent more than 7 years on: reading, studying, phoning people about, and writing articles about. I still gather information about him.

My bibliography manuscript is over 130 pages long, because I gathered information from books and essays about Bester (one was translated for me by a Swedish friend) in European languages, too.

Those who know SF well know how very important Bester is, so I don't have to persuade you folks.

Should I not try to add any of my enormous knowledge of Bester here? Would it be better to create a Web page, and then direct readers from WP to my Bester page?

I never met the man, which breaks my heart, but I know a lot about him from letters and emails to me from his friends, including Charles Platt (author) and Harry Harrison. Plus, I know more about his later life than is captured in the WP article about him - I know about Judith McKeown, and I know more about the "Joe Suder, bartender" situation, too.

Do the administrators think that the article on Bester is just fine as it is?

I love Wikipedia and everyone I've met here so far, so I'll do whatever you say. Thanks! FiverFan65 (talk) 09:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65
 * It is fine to expand it, but try and help improve the existing material as well. If you do this, it may be able to be a Good or Feautured article. Mdann52 (talk) 09:39, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Science Fiction Experts, please check my work on the Bruce McAllister article
Hi, folks! If anyone here knows the literary author Bruce McAllister and/or his work, would you please have a look at what I've added to his page?

I know OF him, but not enough - at one point I began adding info re the aviation historian Bruce McAllister, until I realized they couldn't be the same man - so I will be grateful if anyone can tell me that I've made any other error. Cheers all, FiverFan65 (talk) 08:31, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hello FiverFan65. I'd suggest you post the same question you asked at WikiProject Science Fiction/Discussion Forum.  If this does not produce the feedback you are seeking, then consider browsing the list of members (WikiProject Science Fiction or Category:WikiProject Science Fiction members), or reaching out to an editor at Category:Wikipedians interested in science fiction.  (I wouldn't recommend contact all those listed, rather read through the user pages to identify those who are familiar with the article's subject.)   Hope this help, and again Welcome to Wikipedia.  <span style="border-bottom: 2px solid #F40; font-family:Cambria, serif;">Senator2029&#8239;•&#8239;talk 19:00, 2 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh, thank you! I don't know enough about the various participant groups, the village well and so on. I do understand and I'll take your advice. You're great! FiverFan65 (talk) 07:29, 4 September 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65

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<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#008C3A 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#01796F -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;"><b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b><sup style="color:#01796F;">✉ 19:52, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

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Responses
<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#008C3A 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#01796F -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;"><b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b><sup style="color:#01796F;">✉ 11:04, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Should I add a contradictory/qualifying note to an inline citiation?
Hi, all!

I've been working on Henry Slesar's autobiography. For some of us, he's one of the great writers of mystery and crime fiction, a prolific writer for and friend of Alfred Hitchcock, so I want to get his facts straight.

(For those of you who want to "plotz" when you see the long list of publications I've added, no worries: I'm planning to create a separate page tomorrow and shift over most of those, leaving only the most famous titles under Slesar's name page.)

Slesar was born in 1927 and many sources - not many of which I've found, so far, I consider worthy of citing for WP - say that he served in World War II.

What I contributed yesterday was:

During World War II, for some years he served in the United States Air Force...

I'm concerned about the Locus obituary. So just now I started to add to that footnote:

"It is dubious that Slesar served for five years, as he would have been 12 when the war began, and he was not a career serviceman."

But if I'm dubious, should I add the footnote at all? I've been up pretty late looking around the WP policy columns and couldn't find relevant rules (beyond common sense, which is why I'm asking).

I'll use responses as Advice for Future Contributions.

I appreciate your time and attention!

PS: Oh, and: I'm hoping that Detectionary is allowed by WP; I really don't like my citation for Slesar's serving in the Air Force - I can read Dutch, yet I'm sure I also read this info in the Intro to one of his books, one I got from the library, so I'll check the book out again, and replace the maybe-dubious book-seller's bio. Thanks so much! FiverFan65 (talk) 09:08, 6 September 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65


 * I don't have access to the sources, but I presume that the five-years service claim is in one of them, correct? If not then it's not necessary to mention the number of years at all.


 * If it is, then the relevant policies areWP:Original research and WP:Synthesis. You may have drawn the wrong conclusion that he served from the start to the end of the war. It may simply be that he served some years and remained in service for a few years after the war for a total of five. But then again, since the number of years he served is not explicitly stated in the article, it's unnecessary to explain it. It's best to just omit it altogether and let the reader draw the conclusion.


 * That said, if you can find another source explicitly claiming that he served a different number of years, it would then be appropriate to specify it. But you must properly attribute the claims, e.g. "According to Source A, he served five years in World War II, but Source B says he only served three.", or something along those lines. -- O BSIDIAN  †  S OUL  09:28, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you! WP:Synthesis is exactly what I needed.
 * The 5-years-in-the-Army claim comes from Locus Magazine, but that article isn't signed (which is unusual, for Locus). I'm going to follow your advice and just leave it at "for some years," without stating which years Slesar was in the Army.
 * Thanks again, and I'll use your information in the future!

FiverFan65 (talk) 10:31, 6 September 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65

Reply
<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#008C3A 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#01796F -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;"><b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b><sup style="color:#01796F;">✉ 19:43, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
<div style="border:solid 1px #9accf6;background:#f1f9ff;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0.5em;width:20em;color:black;margin-bottom: 1.5em;margin-left: 1.5em;width: 90%;"> Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
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<span style="white-space:nowrap;text-shadow:#008C3A 0.1em 0.1em 1.5em,#01796F -0.1em -0.1em 1.5em;"><b style="color:#01796F;">Pine</b><sup style="color:#01796F;">✉ 20:33, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

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 * Thank you, Mr. Disambig! I will check on these when I have the time. But I'm moving, and after deleting my special files, I'm leaving my computer here as part of the house furniture - I'll be getting a better one! But I'll return to fix all these things, so thank you for letting me know!


 * I love all you folks, but I'll just be moving a small way away and I'll return, no doubt to ask lots more questions!FiverFan65 (talk) 08:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC) FiverFan65

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