User talk:FlavrSavr/Archive

Message

Go see -  edit maybe. --Modi 13:21, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't understand... what is this supposed to be? --FlavrSavr 15:05, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has a catalog of languages each with 4 levels of user aptitude, each with its own "User language templates"; look here Babel. For Mk, I am not sure if (1) the explanatory text should be in En or Mk and (2) if the text is gramatically correct at all. What do you think? Depending on your advice, I can set up the other three aptitude levels (N, 3, and 1). One can use the template by inserting it in one's own user page - the tag looks like this:


 * or this:


 * What's your advice? --Modi 15:57, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I see. A great feature. The text should be in Macedonian. The texts for the appropriate levels are the following: 1. &#1050;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;&#1089;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;&#1086;&#1090; &#1087;&#1086;&#1095;&#1077;&#1090;&#1085;&#1080;&#1095;&#1082;&#1080; &#1079;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1091;&#1074;&#1072; &#1084;&#1072;&#1082;&#1077;&#1076;&#1086;&#1085;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;. 2. &#1050;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;&#1089;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;&#1086;&#1090; &#1089;&#1088;&#1077;&#1076;&#1085;&#1086; &#1079;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1091;&#1074;&#1072; &#1084;&#1072;&#1082;&#1077;&#1076;&#1086;&#1085;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;. 3. &#1050;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;&#1089;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;&#1086;&#1090; &#1085;&#1072;&#1087;&#1088;&#1077;&#1076;&#1085;&#1086; &#1079;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1091;&#1074;&#1072; &#1084;&#1072;&#1082;&#1077;&#1076;&#1086;&#1085;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;. 4. &#1050;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080;&#1089;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082;&#1086;&#1090; &#1075;&#1086; &#1079;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1091;&#1074;&#1072; &#1084;&#1072;&#1082;&#1077;&#1076;&#1086;&#1085;&#1089;&#1082;&#1080;&#1086;&#1090; &#1112;&#1072;&#1079;&#1080;&#1082; &#1082;&#1072;&#1082;&#1086; &#1084;&#1072;&#1112;&#1095;&#1080;&#1085; &#1112;&#1072;&#1079;&#1080;&#1082;. &#1043;&#1086;&#1074;&#1086;&#1088;&#1080; instead of &#1079;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1091;&#1074;&#1072; can also be used. I'm not sure which of these words is more gramatically and semantically appropriate, but &#1079;&#1073;&#1086;&#1088;&#1091;&#1074;&#1072; is more commonly used in Macedonia. Best regards. --FlavrSavr 17:35, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Here they are: with a little table to kee things neat. Modi

Welcome!

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Happy editing! Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 13:45, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Talk: Macedonian Slavs
I tried to answer your concerns on Talk: Macedonian Slavs. Zocky 02:22, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Macedonian Slavs
Hey, hi. I distinctly remember that you blancked the comment without copying and pasting at the bottom. I can't find that version, it looks like 40 posts were made since last night. So, I could be wrong. My beef was with your blanking, not with whatever you want to call yourself. AFIAK, there are some Greek Apes that need to get back up on their trees, because it was a bad idea for them to come down in the first place. Project2501a 10:43, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Considering the fact that international organizations do recognize people X as Macedonians
Logical fallacy. Just because a number of institutions call FYROM macedonia, it doesn't make it macedonia. did you notice i said "we should all use international trieties for naming"? Peace! :) Project2501a 23:25, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Glad to see that i didn't reply, because i wanted to see if you understood that you were trying to maek a point. Ouzo! Ouzo, when? Project2501a 00:18, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Alex & the Cyrillic Alphabet
This was probably four or five years ago. Someone had linked to it in a Yahoo! group forum. It was a Tripod or Geocities site, with the advertising sidebar and everything. It was very poorly designed. The section on the Macedonian alphabet had a picture of the famous mosaic of Alexander riding Bucephalus on top of the Macedonian Cyrillic alphabet. The caption read something like "Alexander Invented the Macedonian Alphabet, the Greatest Alphabet in the World." The rest of the site had similarly absurd claims. I thought it was a joke, but the person who posted it in the group seemed to be citing it in all earnestness as an authoritative source to back up something he was claiming, so at least one person out there believes it.

I tried Googling the site, but it's not coming up. I'd know it on sight.

I eventually quit the forum. It was full of serious nutcases on both sides. One Greek woman who claimed to be a Communist (Workers of the World Unite! --- unless you happen to be Macedonian) was adamant that not even a tiny sliver of the present Republic of Macedonia was ever part of the fluctuating borders of the ancient kingdom or the Roman or Byzantine provinces; that my thinking so was the result of evil US corporate media brainwashing; and as soon as the revolution came, I would be a prime candidate for a re-education camp! She actually said that I belong in a re-education camp. She had my whole gulag experience planned out. Frankly, I hope she was picked up in the November 17 roundups in the summer of 2002 and is now living in an 8x10 padded cell for her and our safety. She needs some "re-education" or at least some "re-medication."

I'm part Greek on my mother's side, but my people are from south Greece. In my experience, people from northern Greece tend to be the most adamant about the issue --- and that is where most of the Greeks in my town are from. My town has a large population of both Macedonian Greeks and Slavs. When the topic comes up, I usually try to put my coffee or other drink to my lips to avoid having to say anything that would offend either side. On a date, making the move for a kiss often works as well ;) --Jpbrenna 09:35, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ouzo
good :D ==

hehehe :D Project2501a 06:42, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

about the "vandalizing" of the options at the SlavMacedonians voting
Dear FlavrSavr can you explain why is vandalism the expression of a certain view. Even if you strongly disagree with this? I wrote the above statements and they are absolutely true. On the contrary your attermpt to delete my views is censorship and vandalism. Is it not true the fact that in FYROM's school books there are maps of a "liberated" "united" Macedonia? Is it not true that Political parties in FYROM encourage signs "MACEDONIANS ARE MACEDONIAN...NOT GREEK...MACEDONIA CONQUERED GREECE AND ONE DAY ALL OF MACEDONIA WILL BE TOGETHER AGAIN!!!!! MAKEDONIA ZA MAKEDONCITE!!!!!" Similar posts were posted in this page a few days ago isn't it?

Hiellouuu
Ok, no matter we are both Macedonians, I think we can comunicate on English, so the others can read this too. YEs, it is dissapointing what happens on Wikipedia. The Bulgarian/Greek POVS are predominant. I criticized Wikipedia openly and there were some possitive answers, but noone really cares. I tried to change some texts in a very neutral way, but the changes were undoed. As far as I can see, the only way to get their attention is to destroy something here. Because Wikipedia is so open, it is easy to do it. And I am planning to. I won't waste my time writting their enciclopedia and let them deny us. If I waste my time, it will be to show them they are wrong. The good thing is that Wikipedia is already getting reputation around the web as a place for expressing someones POV and people are realising that it is very NOT Neutral. Luckily, when you write 'Macedonia' on Google, Yahoo, Ask etc., the truth is predominant, so most of the people will be able to read it. Good luck I sterbinski 01:10, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

FlavrSavr, I did edit the 'Macedonia' page couple of times. VERY NEUTRALLY. I did not delete anything, just added that there is another POV. And I asked anyone who wants to erase anything from my edit, to ask me to explain my choise. But, THE SIMPLY ERASED ALL THE EDITS I MADE, with no consultation at all. It is so easy to notice that they are protecting the anti-Macedonian POV.

If we can not deal in a nice way, what else can we do? I am sure you spent many days in this fight for our rights, but they simply ignored you. And, in any case, the Bulgarians and Greeks have much bigger population than us, they will outnumber us almost always. Especially because the fact that the internet use in Macedonia is not so high (Because of the monopoly of the Telecomunications).

Do not worry, I am not planning to vandalize Wikipedia. Actually, the texts in Wikipedia are great grounds for complaints to the Human rights organizations. I won't like to use the proves for the Wikipedia's assimilation POV. I already am working on this issue and I am getting great feedback.

Take care my friend, I sterbinski 15:45, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Tell me only this
Did your countrymen call themselves Bulgarians in the nineteenth century? And, if they didn't, then who is lying? --VKokielov 04:10, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

'Bulgarian' was used as a synonym for 'Slavic' till the 1930s. As I said many times before, I have a living grandfather from that time. The Greek assimilation was very powerful in that time, and do not forget that we were 500 year under the Turkish (muslim) occupation. So they wanted to protect from that expressing their Slavic Ortodox Cristian origin.

The word "Slavic" was used by the Byzantine empire, but on the Balkan they were using Bulgarian to express their Slavic origin and religion.

If they were Bulgarians, why would they fight for independence or Authonomy of Macedonia? Isn't it natural they to fight for reunification with the other people of the same kind? But, there were not other people like that, Macedonians were separate nation, with separate culture and identity, so that is the reason why they wanted their independence. Same as my grandfather and many other members of my close family.

The biggest problem of that time for us that the Bulgarians were pretending that they are our friends and they want to help us. Actually, only thing they wanted was to take Macedonia for them. They were the ones who killed many Macedonian revolutioners, including 3 members of my family, who were members of IMRO, fighting for Macedonia's independence. Even my living grandfather was shoot 3 different times from the Bulgarians.

It is complicated issue. Compare it to the following: Armenian, Georgian, Ucrainian etc... all they were often expressing themselves as Russian, because for them Russian was 'Slavic Ortodox Cristian'. Another, even better example. Between 1945th and 1990th the vast majority of the Yugoslav population was using the word 'Yugoslav' to describe themselves. But, their nationality was always and it stayed dofferent than Yugoslav: Croatian, Serbian, Slovenian, Montenegrian, Macedonian, Bosnian, Albanian, Hungarian etc.

Hope this clears the issue. I sterbinski 15:32, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

--- Yes, I have a question. What, then, in your opinion, makes a nationality? I am part Jew, part Polish, part Russian; who will stop me if I proclaim myself Cosmocaucasian and demand my rights?

I ask, of course, in the perspective of the nineteenth century, when all this was formative.

Whatever the case, the compromise is simple: the Bulgarians have to admit that the Macedonians exist now, and the Macedonians have to admit that they share a close historical kinship with the Bulgarians from then. Nothing will move otherwise. --VKokielov 18:50, 6 August 2005 (UTC) - Thank you very much. --VKokielov 13:52, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

sorry
I am sorry, I didn't mean to imply I sterbinski was a crackpot at all. I was criticizing his approach of "let's randomly order every statement people come up with and be done with it", trying to point out that there is no way around weighing each fact as it is put forward. Also, my general impression of the article's organization is that it is fair, I didn't even read all of it, and I have no doubt it could be improved. Sorry if my comment was not helpful. dab (&#5839;) 15:00, 8 August 2005 (UTC)