User talk:Flyer22 Frozen/Archive 18

Re: Just another reason to hate Wikipedia
It sounds like you could use a new metaphor to brighten up the new year! Try this: Wikipedia A damaged bowl, kintsugi Golden, imperfect

Aloha. Viriditas (talk) 09:40, 31 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much, Viriditas. Flyer22 (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Re: sexual objectification
Don't you ever lie about a philosophical source again, re: sexual objectification entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.25.112.234 (talk) 17:35, 31 December 2014 (UTC)


 * No lies at all, IP, as I've already clarified; seen here and here. Flyer22 (talk) 00:03, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year Flyer22!


Happy New Year! Flyer22, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:52, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2015}} to user talk pages.


 * Thank you, James. Happy New Year to you as well. Flyer22 (talk) 07:54, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year!
 Dear, HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions! From a fellow editor, FWiW  Bzuk (talk) 21:36, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

thank you for participating in my study to see how long it takes for people to respond to changes thank you- Icewolf0421 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Icewolf0421 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Impersonation is the sincerest form of flattery...
What's up with the impersonators... User:Flyer322, they had a bunch of SOCKs too! Happy New Year... :) --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 02:10, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Scalhotrod, I'm not sure that Flyer322 and the socks were trying to impersonate or pick on me. There are always going to be other Wikipedia editors with a Flyer username, and, who I currently mention at the top of my user page, also clearly has a similar username and it doesn't appear that the editor was aware of me before creating that account. Is it jarring for me to see another editor with a username that is very similar to mine? Yes, it is.

Thanks for suggestion but Wscube Tech is a not a normal company it's world wide based company. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumeet rajpurohit 1992 (talk • contribs) 17:49, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Anyway, Happy New Year to you too. Flyer22 (talk) 02:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * No worries, since it was so close I wanted to make sure you were aware. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 02:48, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I was; see here. I considered that I might get blocked at one point as a sock of that editor, even though I was reverting him or her. I watch the Human skin color article because it can be problematic, and those socks were focused on human skin color; so I noticed them at the Human skin color article first. Flyer22 (talk) 02:53, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year: Hardiness (plants) article
Hi, your description of this edit as good faith is incredibly charitable. I'm a bit astounded xD Hekerui (talk) 10:51, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * LOL, Hekerui. I've noted before that I've learned my lesson; if some people want to state that I'm doing the wrong thing by reverting likely WP:Vandalism as "test/vandalism," and that I should rather WP:Assume good faith in cases where there is even a sliver of a chance of the edits not being WP:Vandalism (for example, regarding the case you cited, maybe that editor read that matter somewhere and believes it), then fine. I understand what you mean, but seeing comments that I'm now being too charitable humor me.


 * On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with "Hardiness (plants) article," so that it is clear as to what the section is about; it will also help identifying the section when it's archived. Flyer22 (talk) 12:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Extra comment: I actually didn't read all of that edit until you pointed it out to me; I reverted it because of the poor formatting and because it was unsourced. Flyer22 (talk) 12:30, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Not about winning
Please stop your personal attacks and your attempts to game the system. Wikipedia is not about winning. And if you should have the last word, I have no problem giving it to you. 143.176.62.228 (talk) 20:11, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The Wikipedia is not about winning and The Last Word essays are not the point when it comes to my interaction with you. The point of how I've interacted with you here at the Age disparity in sexual relationships article and here at the Conversion therapy article is that I do not respect you as a Wikipedia editor; this is because you are a WP:Disruptive editor who fails to listen to reason. You do not have a good grasp of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and you remind me of the highly problematic editor L'Origine du monde, who recently asked Beeblebrox and JamesBWatson for an unblock. At the Age disparity in sexual relationships article, you have been repeatedly reverted; those who have reverted you include Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ), Chaheel Riens, Binksternet and, most recently, MrX. At the Conversion therapy article, you have been repeatedly reverted by Binksternet and MrX. And here, you were reverted there by Harry the Dirty Dog. I warned you there at that article's talk page that if you continued WP:Edit warring, I would report you at the WP:Edit warring noticeboard or at WP:ANI. And I would have, if Euryalus had not recently blocked you for 24 hours. With the way you were WP:Edit warring, blocking you for 60 hours would have been justified. It seems that by coming to my talk page, Euryalus was brought to the attention of your problematic editing, and therefore tried to reason with you on your talk page, and eventually blocked you. Flyer22 (talk) 21:22, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Analyzing your time stamp above and the time stamp for Euryalus's initial comment on your talk page, and, because of that, thinking that Euryalus must have already become aware of your editing, I see that it's elsewhere that you first caught Euryalus's attention. Flyer22 (talk) 23:50, 6 January 2015 (UTC)


 * That's correct, though I have this page watchlisted too. -- Euryalus (talk) 06:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you! The Henry Knox article.

 * Hello, . Thank you for the WP:Barnstar, but, regarding the Henry Knox article, your content should not be in the infobox. I reverted you the first time as a WP:Good faith edit. I reverted you the second time as WP:Vandalism. From what you stated, you are still editing in WP:Good faith, but you need to be mindful of WP:Disruptive editing and WP:Edit warring.


 * On a side note: I added "The Henry Knox article." to the heading above, so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help locating the section once it is archived. Also, you don't have to issue WP:Barnstars or other special tags to communicate with editors on their talk pages. To start a new section on an editor's talk page, simply click on "New section" at the top of the talk page of the editor you want to communicate with. For this discussion that we are currently having, all you need to do is continue replying in this section if you want to communicate with me further. And remember to sign your username when discussing matters on Wikipedia talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: . Flyer22 (talk) 02:11, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

The Beatles Invite
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Vitale 5 (talk • contribs)


 * Joe Vitale 5, I've only been involved with Beetles Wikipedia matters regarding the article move discussions concerning that band. Since I'm not a fan of the band, though I may like a song or two (or more than two songs) from them, I decline your offer. Flyer22 (talk) 12:39, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

That's fine, thank you anyway. Keep up the good work, with kind regards Joe Vitale 5 (talk) 13:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Talk page FAQs
I don't totally understand what's up with Anthony Bradbury's opinion on the whole FAQ thing. But if his opinion is the prevailing one among admins, this makes the FAQ template useless except for mainspace pages. Yeah I don't get it either. But anyway, I found that the Template:FAQ2 is a good replacement as it makes the text live on the page itself rather than a sub-page. This seems to have some stability benefits as well, at least for me, as sometimes the FAQ would not load or reflect recent changes until a day later. If you watch any other pages with talk FAQs you might want to transition them over before he deletes those as well.Legitimus (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * As you can see here, I just told Anthony Bradbury that Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ can validly exist just like Talk:Homophobia/FAQ validly exists. If it were truly a problem, he would have deleted Talk:Homophobia/FAQ by now. I will either simply restore Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ, or wait and see if you do, or take the matter to WP:Deletion review for wider input. Now, however, I might reconsider, given what you've stated on the matter. Still, the double standard of Talk:Homophobia/FAQ continuing to exist while Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ does not is annoying to me. And I rarely stand for that type of double standard on Wikipedia. Flyer22 (talk) 14:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Gentlemen, I have no strong feeling about this, and do not insist either on the deletion of the page or its retention. my point is that a talk page cannot exist on its own, without an article page to refer to; and the article page to which this talk page was related made no sense, and was itself as it stood a candidate qualifying for deletion. I do not deletion review will help you, although I shall not object at all if you try. Simple wheel-warring restoration is, I think, pointless, as another admin (not me) will delete it again. The answer surely is to re-write it so that it is encyclopedic? --Anthony Bradbury"talk" 14:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Incidentally I notice that Talk:Homophobia/FAQ is also a talk page with no article page to refer to, and hence qualifies for speedy deletion. Had my attention been drawn to it before I would have given deletion serious consideration, but had not seen it until now. I will not now delete it as that seems to me to be a possibly excessive reaction to your comment; I see that in this case the questions posed also appear on the talk page of Homophobia, which in my view is the correct place and indicates where the FAQs should be placed in the Pedophilia article. --Anthony Bradbury"talk" 14:59, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * There seems to be a misunderstanding and it relates to Template:FAQ's very function and design. You just put on the talk page and nothing else. The material that appears for this on the talk page when saved does not actually reside on that page, but rather is pulled from a sub-page; in this instance, the text appearing in that part of Talk:Homophobia actually lives on Talk:Homophobia/FAQ. If you delete Talk:Homophobia/FAQ, the FAQ part on Talk:Homophobia becomes blank. This page/sub-page setup is simple how the template was designed, so if what you say is correct, then this template simply isn't valid anymore for this purpose.Legitimus (talk) 15:40, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Anthony Bradbury, I'm not a male/man, actually. As for rewriting Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ so that it is encyclopedic, it's not an article. It's not supposed to be an article. It's a FAQ, and it was a WP:Subpage of Talk:Pedophilia, and showed up at Talk:Pedophilia like the FAQ that it was, just like Talk:Homophobia/FAQ shows up at Talk:Homophobia like the FAQ that it is. Anyway, as you now know, fellow WP:Administrator Floquenbeam disagrees with you; so I'll see how that plays out. And, Floquenbeam, as for what you stated in that diff-link, I think you've had my user page/talk page on your WP:Watchlist since my March 2012 block case; see here. Flyer22 (talk) 15:52, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * FYI, Talk:Pedophilia/FAQ has been restored, per reasoning on Anthony's talk page. And Flyer22, I think you're right about why this page is on my watchlist, thanks. My memory only lasts about 25 minutes these days... --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:16, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * My apologies for the inexcusable gender mal-assumption. --Anthony Bradbury"talk" 16:47, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Npr article
Can you explain the difference between the npr article and the blog post on mangia.tv. thank you Bob.mangia (talk) 17:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, . You are wondering why I reverted you here, correct? As seen on your talk page, I considered that you were adding WP:SPAM. I had meant to check up on that revert to make sure that it was WP:SPAM. If it's not WP:SPAM, I apologize for reverting you. Feel free to add the link back...properly, by adding it to the External links section of the article; see WP:Layout.


 * On a side note: I moved your post down and created a section for it because it was highjacking the discussion on my talk page above. Per Talk page guidelines, new topics go at the bottom of a talk page (generally). Flyer22 (talk) 01:37, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

WP:Talk
Hi. WP:Talk makes it very clear that breaking up an thread in the interest of refactoring and staying on topic is completely appropriate. Please read Talk_page_guidelines, paying attention to the sections on Off-topic posts and Sectioning. I will offer you the choice of accepting collapse top and collapse bottom boxing around your digression if you prefer, but I insist that you remain on-topic w/r/t the question of improper synthesis/OR. --April Arcus (talk) 05:20, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You said in an edit summary, "When I state that I do not want my comment tampered with, that is exactly what I mean. Now do leave it alone, per WP:Talk.". You are not reading the contents of the policies you are citing, and you are deliberately steering a discussion off-topic. The rules are not only for you.
 * --April Arcus (talk) 05:34, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * --April Arcus (talk) 05:34, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * April Arcus, WP:Talk makes it very clear that you generally should not mess with another editor's comment, and, that when the editor objects to you messing with it, then you should leave it alone. There are only a few exceptions for you messing with an editor's comment; what you have cited above is not one of those exceptions in this case. There is nothing about my comments that is off-topic, and I've been very clear with this latest edit that you should leave my comments alone. If you continue to mess with them, then I will take the matter right to WP:ANI. I ceased discussion with you at that talk page for a reason -- a reason that is noted there (multiple reasons, actually). If I wanted to communicate with you further, I would have. I don't. Flyer22 (talk) 05:36, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, WP:Talk is not a policy; it is a guideline. I am the one who is constantly having to inform and remind you of certain Wikipedia policies and guidelines, and of the WP:Advocacy essay. I've noted the following before: There is not a Wikipedia policy or a guideline that I need to become familiar with. I am one of the editors who knows each and every one of them. You already know that I do not tolerate WP:Advocacy; my user page is clear about that. I don't care what your cause is, as long as you do not let that cause inappropriately affect your Wikipedia edits. Flyer22 (talk) 05:47, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * So do you want to communicate further or not? --April Arcus (talk) 06:03, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


 * April Arcus, I'll eventually get back to discussion with you at that article, comparing WP:Reliable sources, including WP:MEDRS-compliant sources, and such. But like I stated, I am waiting for James Cantor to weigh in there on the matters you have addressed. I know that he's had his battles with transgender topics on Wikipedia, mainly involving this editor, which is why he made this pledge, but he is an expert on the transgender topics at hand and has access to more sources on them than I do. I find him rational and willing to listen to me even when my knowledge on sexology topics clashes with his knowledge on them, as recently as this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 06:06, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

LBP3 (LittleBigPlanet 3) article reverting?
Hey, you reverted all my changes made to the LittleBigPlanet 3 article and I was just wondering why? I don't edit wikipedia much but I actually worked on the development team for the game so wanted the page to be a bit more informative than it is now. So was there a reason and if not, is there any way to get back the changes I made? I spent quite a while typing up the plot! haha

Cheers, Mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.136.96 (talk • contribs)


 * I don't play that game or any video games these days; I mainly played them when my brothers and I lived together (we grew up playing video games). Anyway, I came across the LittleBigPlanet 3 article via WP:STiki, and I reverted you because the formatting was partly inappropriate and you added unsourced material, some of which looked trivial to me. Per MOS:HEAD, headings are in lowercase (except for official titles, such as the title of a book or a film). And, per WP:Plot, there is a limit to the plot information we include. For example, WP:TVPlot and WP:FilmPlot are plot guidelines for television and film...respectively. For video game layout matters, see WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines. As for retrieving your content, you can click on this link (which is your edit before I reverted you), and then click on the "edit" option for that link. You can go into that version of the article and retrieve your copy with the "copy and paste" feature on your computer. You can also save that version of that article (by clicking "Save page" below the editing window) and subsequently restore the article to your version, but that will erase any edits made since then, such as this edit by Soetermans.


 * On a side note: I added "(LittleBigPlanet 3)" to the heading above, so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help locating the section once it is archived. I would alert you to my reply on your IP talk page, but, judging by your edits to the LittleBigPlanet 3 article and now to my talk page, you clearly change IP addresses. Flyer22 (talk) 05:24, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I was actually just using the LBP2 wikipedia page as a guide for the LBP3 page, that has a hefty Plot section too. Ive just been editing from my laptop, so sorry if my IP address is changing, not sure how to control that!

Cheers, Mark — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.136.96 (talk • contribs)

Glastonbury Festival is Avalon
Glastonbury Festival is Avalon...Atlantis is Avalon...holy graal????????? this is a shame! without corrections wikipedia is unreliable Avalon belong in the Arthurian myths and not do the tour guide of mendacious Glastonbury...why you deleted my edits?--79.12.99.161 (talk) 10:43, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * LOL. Knowing what I know about Wikipedia, I wouldn't fully trust it for reliability either without checking the sources supporting its text. If the sources are wrong, I'd then blame the sources. Thank you for explaining your edit after I reverted you. You should have briefly explained in the edit history, however; I mean, better than the "fantasy" edit summary you gave as an explanation. Flyer22 (talk) 10:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Uh-oh, Noyster reverted you for WP:Block evasion. Flyer22 (talk) 11:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * There's history here, Flyer, in more ways than one. I've put it on the RPP list again Noyster  (talk),  11:12, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

For your amusement
Hey Flyer, I thought you'd get a good, hearty laugh out of this discussion. I think it's funniest if you read the last post aloud in an angry voice. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for trying to get a laugh out of me, Cyphoidbomb, but the way that Jackthomas321 is so disrespectful makes me sad. I hope that he only talks that way because of the anonymity of the Internet (not having to state those things to a person's face); otherwise, I assume that he generally is not a person people should be around in real life. May my sisters or heterosexual or bisexual female friends never have a boyfriend or a husband who is like that. Flyer22 (talk) 06:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It is shocking, abhorrent and so deeply disrespectful that it can only be self-hatred blended with misogyny. I can't laugh at that. May your wish come true, Flyer22. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:02, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Your point is very well understood, Flyer, and pity is a rational response to him. I found it pitiable, but still hilarious, because I appreciate the absurdities of human behavior. Because I didn't fit his shallow model of masculinity, (I wasn't shouting back at him or getting angry) he assumed I must be a woman instead, as if only women must be polite and level-headed. (Frankly, that sounds a lot like misandry too.) He actually said of his own free will: "When something is wrong, a Real Man gets angry whereas a coward behaves polite." If there's one thing a bigot is, it's ignorant. And believe me, it was my instinct to deliver an equivalent tirade about misogyny and to tell him that Western society shuns that absurd mindset, but based on how quickly he is prone to irrational responses and rage, and assuming that his comments are in earnest, I think he's far beyond broken, and polite society will kick his ass accordingly, or banish him to his miserable comfort zone, a byproduct of a backward mindset, rather than as a catalyst for change and improvement. Also there were Do Not Feed the Trolls considerations, which precluded me from poking the bear. Sorry you didn't at least get a chuckle, but on the other hand, I got a real taste of misogyny directed at me, which was educational. :/ Cyphoidbomb (talk) 07:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you both. Yes, Cyphoidbomb, what you experienced with Jackthomas321 is undoubtedly what a lot of girls and women face. I've thankfully mostly experienced misogyny on the Internet, as opposed to in real life, but I've experienced sexism often enough, including occasionally from my brothers. As a child, the sexism was the typical "girls are weaker/you can't play this game" type of thing. As an adult, my typical experience with sexism is when a teenage boy or a man states something insulting to me because he apparently finds me attractive; that was also the case when I was a mid-to-late teenager. It's interesting to get your take on misogyny and sexism, since you are a man. Of course, you and Cullen328 are upstanding men from what I can tell, so I appreciate your opinions either way. Flyer22 (talk) 07:27, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I was really shocked reading the comments. I get deeply affected when I see so many Indian men being so misogynistic. One particular comment on Indian women and dogs was especially disturbing. What a terrible, terrible thing to say. :( -- KRIMUK  90  ✉  07:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was pretty effed up to say. The guy was simultaneously trying to claim he is enlightened, by expressing awareness that harming women isn't acceptable, and that in his culture, women are less than dogs, which he acknowledges as wrong, but somehow, because I didn't agree that the week-by-week gross values at PK (film) were noteworthy, I'm a special case who needs to be made an example of by being called a prostitute, by suggesting I'm fellating admins, etc. As a man, I want his testicles revoked. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 08:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm reminded of what the great Sofia Vergara had to say to something similar: "What's wrong with having a dick in my mouth"? Classic! -- KRIMUK  90  ✉  09:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Operations vs 'surgeries'
Hi Flyer, I've left this message at the WP:Medmos talk page too.

If you are talking about the discipline, it is surgery. If you are talking about an operating room in the UK, it is called a surgery, so multiple operating rooms might be surgeries. But the procedure is an operation. Multiple surgical procedures are called operations, not 'surgeries'.

BakerStMD T&#124;C 16:01, 14 January 2015 (UTC)


 * BakerStMD, thanks for taking this matter to the WP:MEDMOS talk page; I'll comment there. Flyer22 (talk) 16:06, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of info in Mary Kay Letourneau article and comment about "fun"
Hello there Flyer 22. There was no reason for you to delete Fualaau's date of birth from the article. That was legitimate information. Also, I don't inject my personal opinion into articles. The comment about the boy having "fun" was placed in the revision history, NOT the article itself.

For your information, Letourneau was an absolute idiot.

Anthony22 (talk) 14:47, 18 January 2015 (UTC)


 * , as you know, I'd already explained why I deleted your content. As for your "fun" comment, you were editing from a POV (your personal opinion) mindset; that mindset affected your editing, and I commented on it. As for Letourneau being an idiot, let me guess: You think she's an idiot because she didn't hide her sexual crime well enough and instead got caught for it...twice? Flyer22 (talk) 15:12, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Cock tease: It wasn't tagged by the Women's History project
And cock tease has nothing to do with women's history as described by the project. That's why I removed it. Ongepotchket (talk) 13:58, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Ongepotchket, as you likely saw, that WikiProject Women's History tag was added by Dimadick in 2011. You are certain that Dimadick was not a member Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History? Either way, one does not have to be a member of a WikiProject to tag an article talk page with one of its tags, and a person can easily become a member by simply deciding that they are a member. I reverted you here for the reasons stated in that edit summary. Cock tease, which is about, "derisive sexual slang used to describe a woman who acts in a sexual manner to seduce men without actually fulfilling the sexual actions," and is a "term [that] has been in use in Great Britain and the United States since the 19th century," "has nothing to do with women's history as described by the project"? What part of that project's page, as it currently is, makes it clear that the cock tease topic is not within its scope? I anticipated you reverting me and/or bringing this topic to my talk page; if you had reverted me, I would have taken the matter to Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History so that they can discuss it. Perhaps the matter should be taken there for discussion regardless.


 * By the way, I altered the heading of this section with "Cock tease:" so that it is clearer as to what this section is about. Flyer22 (talk) 16:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I trust your edits and input, and the tagging for this article is not a hill I wish to die on today. Probably not tomorrow either. Consider the matter dropped on my end. Ongepotchket (talk) 17:03, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Regarding "beautiful" on Campione!
Hi, as a suggestion on keeping the word "beautiful", you can rewrite the statement as "the (source) anime profile describes her as beautiful" or "X calls her a beautiful". If the premise of the story notes that she is a beauty then that can be cited. That should keep it NPOV. -AngusWOOF (talk) 16:29, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * AngusWOOF, I went to the Campione! article because I had just finished watching the Campione! English dubbed anime in between finishing up some computer-related work. When I finish a series or a film (for example, Nightcrawler starring Jake Gyllenhaal), I am likely to visit the Wikipedia article to see what shape the article is in and to see what critics and/or fans thought of the series or film (trusting the WP:Reliable sources more so than the unsourced content). That is, if I haven't already visited the Wikipedia article and learned of that stuff. I was annoyed by this edit an IP made to the Campione! article (not sure if that IP is you), which is why I made this WP:Dummy edit, but I'm not interested in pressing the matter. I know that beauty is subjective (well, it often isn't when it's a person that people will generally view as beautiful), but when the character is consistently described or otherwise viewed as beautiful in the series or in the film, I find it odd that someone would mark the plot information as some type of non-neutral POV. If the character was consistently described or otherwise viewed as ugly, a jock, or a nerd, for example, I doubt that the "non-neutral POV" claim would pop up. Or rather I think it would not have a good chance of popping up. Flyer22 (talk) 16:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm fine with retaining such descriptions. I haven't combed through that article like I did with the List of High School DxD characters which has characters that were considered "beautiful" and were called "yamato nadeshiko" by the author and the characters (Akeno in particular). I recently redid List of Totally Spies! characters where on the main three characters, I had removed a bunch of those adjectives, only to put some of them back once I had read the profiles coming from their television websites. As for the Campione! article, I think the character descriptions are way too long but I agree with you that I don't really feel like reading the light novel to find out; perhaps there are description profiles from the light novels and the afterwords that would be sufficient as sources. -AngusWOOF (talk) 18:14, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, the character descriptions in the Campione! article are far too long, and that article clearly needs fixing up in general. Speaking of High School DxD, though, I've enjoyed that series a lot. While it does have much unnecessary sexual fan service, I was hooked on that show from the first episode, an episode that is both funny and scary. The show has a nice blend of humor, action and horror, and I made sure to watch the uncensored version. Watching some Season 1 episodes of the non-dubbed version, I see that some of the words that were changed in the English-dubbed version come across significantly better in the non-dubbed version where they are unchanged. My youngest sister loves the series as well, mainly for the love story between Issei and Rias, but hates the sexual fan service that's in it. For example, the first episode of the English dub has all sorts of sexual talk and slang (including dated slang) that is not in the non-dubbed version. And, to be clear, the love story between Issei and Rias is the main reason that I also watch that anime. To that, my sister perhaps would say, "Hey, we're women. Can you blame us?" And then smack herself for the stereotype. Flyer22 (talk) 18:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The character list articles for that show plus Campione could use a reception section to discuss that. If the portrayals are significantly different across media, that can be listed as well, provided they are supported by the critics reviews or interviews with the animation developers or authors. List of Rosario + Vampire characters has a good paragraph about the fanservice portrayal for both the anime and manga. When that many critics complain about the fanservice, it isn't just an isolated incident. -AngusWOOF (talk) 18:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * As an additional note: AngusWOOF, I'm not sure what I think of the Campione! anime. It held my attention, per some of the things seen in this trailer for it, but it has a cheesy voice-over introduction (which seems intentionally cheesy) and the romance between Godou and Erica is not well-executed (though I believed that Erica was in love with him for whatever reason). At least the fan service was not overboard. I'm not sure if I should read the Campione! light novel or what. I skimmed a bit of the Campione! manga after watching the anime, but Godou looks too different and significantly younger in the manga, so that made me not too interested in reading it. I prefer that the characters have physical consistency when it comes to manga-to-anime adaptations or vice versa. Flyer22 (talk) 17:39, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm hoping the reviews include some thoughts on the light novel presentation, but they're probably just focusing on the anime, which is fine. -AngusWOOF (talk) 18:35, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

deleting only completely dead links
Hey dude, I'm only deleting those links which are completely dead i.e. Only those who's link was not recoverable even after a long research and its not my fault that all links that I found belonged to that category. And sorry for any inconvenience. Regards Monarchrob1 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:49, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Monarchrob1, did you read the WP:Dead links page that I pointed you to on your talk page? If not, go ahead and read it and see how it notes that leaving in a dead link might be the best option even after one fails to find a replacement. On your talk page, I was also noting that you should attempt to replace a dead link with a different WP:Reliable source. Removing the source and leaving the text uncited as though it never had a source is not an improvement unless the source is not WP:Reliable or is used in a WP:Synthesis way. Since my post on your talk page about WP:Dead links, you have received another complaint there about removing dead links. Do heed what we are stating on this matter.


 * On a different note: New discussion sections usually go at the bottom of talk pages, per Talk page guidelines. That is why I moved your post down. And to correctly sign your posts, all you have to do is simply type four tildes (~), like this: . A bot had to correct your signature above. Also, consider replying on your talk page when a person starts a discussion there; this keeps the discussion centralized. Flyer22 (talk) 18:07, 20 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Monarchrob1, with all due respect to your intentions, but how come you did a long research to recover a broken link when it took me just one minute to find a alternative URL? Please stop immediately with your removals. Either your skills are not sufficiently developed yet, or you're just making up excuses for not having even tried, because that's the feeling I'm getting here, since your careless removal also deleted a neighboring citation that was AOK. The article I'm talking about is Alpha particle X-ray spectrometer. Nevertheless, best regards, --  R fassbind   -talk   22:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

HIV and or AIDS information
Ok I get it. It is supposed to be about people not the information. That page is a disgrace, doesn't meet the very basics of sexual health that everyone should know, has had in their hand or that are taught to year 10 students and it is not ethical because you mess with peoples lives - controversial is not an explanation for 30 year old basics. The fact that HIV/AIDS is not sorted because of / suggest this model is fundamentally flawed. This lack of progress is not helped (caused?) when the discussion is long winded, piffling, largely ignorant and detached from the point and isn't point-by-point but person-by-person, eg my complaint of conflation with illness is detached and useless. It creates a rambling mess which I find extremely difficult to navigate when it comes to the edit page - it is purposely designed not to be easy. It is demeaning to have to learn this to correct such obvious errors that should not have been allowed in the first place. Does anyone take some responsibility to do a complete re-edit taking everything available into account or will this page continue to carry this silliness? I will make some suggestions about another section which is worse and I would like to know what you think about the content and the complete re-write required. At the moment I am not convinced I can help or should when the page is so obviously poor more than 30 years into the pandemic. Eric Ericglare (talk) 06:42, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello again, . When I moved your comments at the talk page of the HIV/AIDS article, as noted here on your talk page, it wasn't meant to frustrate you or dissuade you from commenting. It was because, as I've stated in the edit summary, the placement of your comments made it seem like your comments were a part of another editor's posts. I know that talk page formatting can be confusing for new and relatively new Wikipedia editors; so I suggest that the quickest way for you to learn the formatting is to observe how others add their posts, and then to follow their lead. If you start a new section at the HIV/AIDS article talk page, which is easy to do by clicking on the "New section" option at the top, and explain your issues with the article in that section, others (such as Doc James and Bluerasberry) will listen to what you have to state. They will be more willing to listen, however, if you provide high-quality or otherwise decent medical sources to support your assertions; see Identifying reliable sources (medicine) (WP:MEDRS). As for messing with people's lives, I don't think that I do in the negative way that you seem to be implying. Flyer22 (talk) 07:25, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Would you mind re-reading what I wrote and then giving me a reply about its content not an abstract picture of its content. Tip: I did not refer to you. Tip 2: things I did not complain about I mostly agree with. Also why should crappy sources trump common sense such as the meaning of /? Is there something about authoritative sources or is a URL enough? I am annoyed that poor quality with Wikipedia has remained all these decades.Ericglare (talk) 08:44, 21 January 2015 (UTC)


 * , it would be better if you make your case in a new section at the article talk page so that all of the WP:Watchers of that talk page can see it and choose to weigh in on it if they want to. Flyer22 (talk) 05:56, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * , but the newbie page you sent me to said specifically that was a newbie mistake and we should try and integrate. In terms of observing, I'm finding that obscure for determining how and then very difficult to find the information on very basic things (your links were helpful, thanks). Can I assume that most what is in the edit page is typed and not from some function like the the 4 tildes which is pushed ad nauseam instead of being automatic when logged in? Ericglare (talk) 06:42, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * It says what is a newbie mistake? Your formatting? And by "integrate," you mean your posts? You can validly post in an existing section if what you are posting is related to it, but posting in a section that is months or years old, especially if that section is not still active, can cause your comments to be overlooked. Like, Talk page guidelines states, "If you put a post at the top of the page, it is confusing and can easily be overlooked." Similar is often true of new comments without a new section to go along with them. And if you post in an existing section, make sure that you don't post at the start of the section; doing that makes it look like you started the section (or, in the case that you did start the section, that it began with your new comment). That's part of why I reverted you on a heading matter last year; you probably never checked back to read what I stated there, or you forgot about that section. As for getting better at talk page formatting: Well, besides the WP:Talk guideline I pointed you to before, and my suggestion that you observe the way other Wikipedia editors post, Tutorial/Talk pages and Indentation can help you.


 * By "edit page," you mean the article or talk page? Or both? Whatever the case, yes, that stuff is typed. Additionally, when you are replying on someone's talk page, you don't need to ping that person via WP:Echo; this is because they will already receive the message. I've clearly pinged you twice above since this is my talk page, not yours, and I wanted to make sure you were aware of my replies. I won't ping you to this discussion anymore since I assume that if you want to read my replies, you will check back here; I will go ahead and let you know of this on your talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 07:22, 22 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, and you're welcome for the WP:Wikilinks and/or WP:Diff links. Flyer22 (talk) 07:33, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Message from 189.8.107.196

 * The following comment was moved from your user page

Hi, Flyer22. I'm sorry I am writing it here, but I just started editing Wikis today, and only because I saw what was a blatant biased article on Wikipedia - the article on Pope Joan. I have then made some completely unbiased editions there (really neutral, just so it would look less like Catholic propaganda) and all my edits keep getting reversed by the 3 only users who apparently mod that page, which have clear personal biases regarding the Church. I saw that you edited the Feminism page in Wiki and look like a very reasonable and experient Wiki user, which is what I think is needed in that page. Would you bother taking a look at that? Thank you very much and sorry if I posted this in the wrong place :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.8.107.196 (talk • contribs) 3:16, 23 January 2015 (UTC)


 * IP, looking at that edit history, which shows the disputes going on there, I'd rather not get involved. I've stated the following before on Wikipedia: I have enough contentious topics to deal with on this site.


 * For some contentious topics, I feel a bit unprepared for what is to come because it feels like, or perhaps is the case that, I am the only editor there to meet whatever possible dispute. I have the possible disputes worked out in my head, however, and have a pre-existing reply typed up for one of them. Typing up a pre-existing reply can be especially helpful in the case of a dispute that has been repeatedly addressed. The Feminism article is one contentious article that I have not yet edited and do not have on my WP:Watchlist. So it must instead be a feminism-related page you saw me at. Perhaps the Sexism article? Either way, you should either seek some form of WP:Dispute resolution or the help of an editor who is not as burnt out from WP:Wikistress as I am. Flyer22 (talk) 08:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

please sgay out of it when you don't know history
turkey was established in 1923, prior to that there were no turks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.70.251.91 (talk) 21:25, 24 January 2015 (UTC)


 * As the reverts at that article show, reverting you there is not a matter of not knowing history. Flyer22 (talk) 21:32, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Commons vote
Hi Flyer. I just voted you for my once a month dumb question. In this vote, do I click the "Vote" below or above the picture of my choice. Also where I could look up answers like this on my own? It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of votes were the wrong choices. Remember 2000 - how many people voted Dubya by mistake? Slight Smile  18:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


 * You chose the wrong person; I am just as dumb on that matter. Flyer22 (talk) 18:33, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh well. Maybe I can find a genius at the Commons. Slight  Smile  19:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The top most and bottom most images gives the clue. So it's the Vote button underneath the image of choice. I knew I had a brain somewhere. Slight  Smile  19:49, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Your treatment of me
I find you high-handed, bossy, glorying in your greater knowledge of Wikipedia policies (which I certainly admit), and seemingly taking pleasure in rubbing my nose in my mistakes. While I have certainly received corrections from other editors, yours consistently have the "I know more than you, you're ignorant" tone to them.

I have already begun avoiding making edits on pages you watch, so as to avoid you.

According to WP:Newbies, "New members are propsective contributors". I'm not a prospective contributor, I'm a contributor. You know more policies than me. Others no doubt know more than you.

From WP:Newbies

"Nothing scares potentially valuable contributors away faster than hostility" "Our motto and our invitation to the newcomer is be bold" "If you feel that you must say something to a newcomer about a mistake, please do so in a constructive AND RESPECTFUL manner. "If possible, point out things they've done correctly or well" "Make the newcomer feel genuinely welcome"

At all the above, in my judgment, you have failed, at least in your interactions with me. Even were I a newbie, this is not the way Wikipedia policies say newbies should be treated.

I think you owe me an apology. deisenbe (talk) 14:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Deisenbe, I stand by all of what I stated to you on your inexperience with editing Wikipedia. And what I stated at that talk page was the first time I have specifically addressed you on your inexperience with editing Wikipedia. All the other times, I simply reverted you and politely answered your questions, including the ones that, due to my experience with the site and/or awareness of what constitutes a valid reference, I find to be common sense...such as the aforementioned one about porn videos. But enough is enough. If you were a WP:Newbie who was willing to learn from your mistakes and improve, I likely would not have a problem with you. But you barely seem to be improving; you make what are essentially the same types of mistakes without seemingly attempting to improve by learning Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Instead of truly trying to understand why I or another person has reverted you, you act as though you are a victim and are likely to go and mark the revert down as a revert you are disappointed with. For example, with this edit summary, you probably took it as me being bossy and talking down to you; it was instead me reminding you of what are inappropriate references (in this case, porn videos) and cleaning up an article. In our aforementioned discussion about porn videos, you didn't seem willing to understand why those references are inappropriate; you seemed to take it as my or Wikipedia's failure to understand why you are in the right on that matter.


 * Like you stated, you have been registered with Wikipedia since 2005. But like I stated, you are essentially a WP:Newbie. And WP:Newbies that don't seem to want to improve in their Wikipedia editing will have that wake-up call sooner or later if they decide to keep editing Wikipedia. I will not apologize for urging you toward your wake-up call in that regard. If I owe you an apology, you owe me an apology for consistently leaving messes for me and others to clean up. And as for my experience with editing Wikipedia, there are few (if any) who know more about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines than I do. When I was a WP:Newbie, I quickly snapped into shape so that others would not have to clean up my Wikipedia messes; anything less is not fair. But you know what they say: Life is not fair. Flyer22 (talk) 15:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * And on a side note: WP:Newbie is a guideline, not a policy. Flyer22 (talk) 15:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for sharing your expertise. I was not aware that WP:Newbie is guideline, not policy. Now I understand why you are free to ignore it. deisenbe (talk) 17:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Deisenbe, I don't ignore it. Wikipedia guidelines are obviously meant to be followed; the exception is a WP:Ignore all rules case. I hope that by pointing you to the WP:Ignore all rules policy, you don't start waving it around to excuse any inappropriate editing on your part. And while we're on the topic of thanks, thank you for your "17:30, 28 January 2015 (UTC)" comment; it shows me that informing you of appropriate Wikipedia editing and that you should strive to be better at editing Wikipedia if you are going to be editing it as much as you do is futile. Flyer22 (talk) 17:36, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Reading through your talk page, including this section, it's clear your tone and behavior is seriously damaging your reputation as an editor. I do wonder what you actually gain from being here, and I wonder what Wikipedia gains from you being here. And no, I'm not one of your 'many stalkers' - this is my first and last visit to your talk page, you'll be pleased to know. Perhaps it's how you were brought up, perhaps it's some autism spectrum disorder; regardless, I hope you manage to reach the same level of interpersonal skills and emotional intelligence as the rest of us soon. Merry March, brother.
 * 77.99.12.140 (talk) 00:32, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You are one of my many stalkers. As for what you stated above, it is nonsense that doesn't deserve a reply. But you really should learn to count since the above is certainly not your first post to this talk page as an IP. Flyer22 (talk) 00:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I am not one of your many stalkers - first time I've heard of you, first time I've visited your talk page; though it does make for an interesting read! Also, I can count - it's a wonderful thing isn't it? Knowing how much money is in your pocket, how many books are on your shelf, knowing how many comments you've left on a page. The 'sexism' comment was my first post to your page, today, several minutes before my second post under this section after reading through the rest of your talk page. I hope that clears things up for you. 77.99.12.140 (talk) 00:56, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, you are one of my many stalkers. And a boring one at that. And one who still cannot count. The best stalkers know that they can't fool me. But keep trying, I suppose. Flyer22 (talk) 01:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Asking for input on the campus rape article
Hi Flyer22. I saw you edited the campus rape page recently. I am wondering if you could offer your input there on a potential NPOV issue. Opinion pieces by Christina Hoff Sommers, who is not an expert, are used several times as citations for prevalence of campus rape, while other authors and studies (of far more reliability, in my opinion) have been removed (again) in recent days. The page is suffering from what I believe is POV-pushing. I am asking a third party to take a look as the first step to resolving this conflict, rather than start what could become another edit war. Thanks. Ongepotchket (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Ongepotchket, I am aware of all of the WP:Edit warring and POV-pushing going on at the Campus rape article. I'm staying out it because it's too much for me; see, for example, what I stated in the section above. Topics concerning women and rape or other sexual assault always attract the attention of editors who shouldn't be editing those articles or who edit them poorly. At the Campus rape article talk page, I recently got out of trying to get editors to understand when and when not an article should be moved, and there were editors who still didn't see why moving the article would be wrong. So I can only imagine how frustrating debating editors there on other matters would be. I know that it's not what you want to read, but I decline to get involved. Flyer22 (talk) 22:07, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Lede image in Boy
Hi Flyer22.

Of course it's a matter of opinion about the quality of the new born infant image. It was submitted by the administrator Dennis Brown and it is fact an image of his fellow administrator Drmies' new born boy. I don't think it's a particularly good image. Moreover the fact that it's a boy is somewhat superfluous here as the infant could either be a boy or a girl for all we know. Also we already have an image of a white Caucasian in the Spain image below.

It's curious that there is a dearth of high quality images of boys on Commons. I simply thought this the best of the bunch. C1cada (talk) 11:56, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * C1cada, you are pretty familiar with Wikipedia for a relatively new account; you apparently even WP:Watchlisted the Boy article to see my response to your removing the image. Either that, or you checked back into the edit history manually. And, yes, I'm always suspicious of editors who clearly are not new to editing Wikipedia but have a brand new Wikipedia account and will be thought of as new by others. Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with the image. And I highly doubt that the newborn is a girl (unless the baby comes to identify that way later on); it doesn't strike me as something that Drmies would lie about. But it did cross my mind that you or someone else might argue that a person cannot tell from looking at the image that the child is a boy. Well, I thought that a person might argue that until I clicked on the image soon after you removed it and saw that Drmies is the uploader. You should have taken this matter to the article's talk page, so that everyone watching that article can know where to weigh in on this matter. But I'll go ahead and point to this section via a WP:Dummy edit in that article's edit history. I'm not too interested in debating this matter, but your reasons for removing the image are, in my opinion, not valid. I also see that Gerda Arendt added the image back, but in a way that is supposed to be a compromise.


 * By the way, yes, that was an awful typo you made to the heading of this section. I saw you at my talk page from my WP:Watchlist before deciding to read what you wrote. And before I did, I was like, "Oh, goodness, don't tell me I've come across some bizarre editor who thinks that the image is lewd." Flyer22 (talk) 12:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I trust Gerda is more approving of my efforts at Perinçek v. Switzerland. Perhaps she would care to deal with the ECHR blacklisting issue I mention in the edit summary. C1cada (talk) 13:15, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * (ec) I like the baby image. I am woman who likes to see images of newborn babies anywhere, especially the baby of a friend, added to the article in a nice gesture by sadly missed Dennis. I referred to the article, meaning the image, several times. The boy grew, and an image of him was used in the edit that was the most constructive single edit I recall. - You can tell me of course that all these sentimental reasons are of no importance, - wasn't there talk about gender gap? For equal opportunity, at the same time a baby girl was born ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:24, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't see the point of the image and I don't give a damn about your Wikipedia friends' baby pics. I don't have any nice pics of my infant children I myself should care to share on Wikipedia but I trust you will allow healthy competition in this matter should it arise, if only to head off unmerited accusations of elitism. I would be obliged if you could something about that ECHR issue I mention above. Don't you advocate on the Armenia holocaust question? I believe you do. C1cada (talk) 13:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I have nothing to allow and hear what you give. My time is limited.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, you've been editing all day and your time not so limited that you cannot alert Drmies that an editor presumes to question the relevance of his baby pics as lede images. More important than the Armenia Holocaust denial appeal before the ECHR? I shall be making a very substantial edit on the matter when the judgment is given. C1cada (talk) 15:08, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Why is my sweet little boy put in the same paragraph as a holocaust? and what's more "international" about the one you put in there? and what's it matter that you can't tell it's a boy? Flyer, I appreciate your diplomacy, and Gerda, yours as well. And thanks, . Drmies (talk) 17:58, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

, I took inspiration from your sandbox to create Petronella Oortmans: thanks! Drmies (talk) 18:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks for that. Nice start. I had reached a hiatus with it. I actually find editing Wikipedia rather tedious myself. I added a couple of edits. Jessie Burton's best selling novel was a fine debut, but I did think she wasn't quite up the task right now. You might enjoy it. The Warmoesstraat is an English Wikipedia article in need of rescue.


 * Nothing personal about that image of your. Fine little chap and I congratulate you. But there's another or so 100+ coming on line every minute, so you may have some competition there. I'll let you off myself. It is curious that when you make a Google search for free to use even commercially images of new born baby boys, there really isn't anything more suitable. Cheers. C1cada (talk) 19:19, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Related only by association: I wrote an article A Boy was Born on BB's birthday and had people search for a Christmas image where you see that it is a boy, - also not much choice. Did you know that the image best suited to the article was removed? I put it on the talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:42, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, nice article Gerda. It reminds me that I have yet to listen to this particular piece, though I do know a fair bit of Benjamin Britten's music and think it absolutely gorgeous. I really ought to listen to more. Your article start certainly seems to have attracted more than its fair share of Talk Page drama! You will forgive me if I don't delve into the issues on this occasion. I would say in general that one ought to respect the wishes of originating contibutors, and you have my sympathy. C1cada (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you! I also will have yet to listen, - the article was a spontaneous "birth" on the composer's centenary (2013) with him the featured article, and then I thought it would be nice for Christmas ... - I don't agree that one ought to respect wishes of the article creators (I forgot to mention the great help of Alfietucker) too much, - simple respect for how the composer and most sources used for the article spelled it would have been enough. I found not enough support for such a crazy idea ;) - I don't know if "ignore" was the best answer . I had a better answer to the : it's on the Main page now, DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:10, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Cardiovascular disease
Hey Flyer. Sorry if I should be doing this on the sites talk page. Still havent got the hang of using talk pages. The resource that I used to back up the claim is a reputable source because it was created by a not for profit university. And uses a number of high quality resources to back up all statistics listed on it. This infographic in particular used heart.org, circ.ahajournals.org, nhlbi.nih.gov, cdc.gov, and the mayoclinic. Legit sources. In an easy to read manner. Despite the fact that its an infographic it has some great stats and info. Not everyone that reads wikipedia has the time to dig deep into journalistic papers for their information. These types of sources should not be discounted just because it has just as many pictures as words. Does that make sense? BrettofMoore(talk) 15:56, 29 January 2015‎ (UTC)

Domestic Violence-- I have to say that the domestic violence infographic falls under the same jurisdiction as the Cardiovascular one. And I followed you're suggestion for this one. You stated if we keep this statistic it should be in a different section. I clarified what year the data fell into and moved the info to the section that you suggested. I'm not sure if you are even looking at the edits at this point or simply dismissing them. Can you clarify yourself? While I need to rationalize the input, I also feel that you may need to rationalize the exclusion as well. We're on equal footing here. BrettofMoore(talk) 16:04, 29 January 2015‎ (UTC)


 * BrettofMoore, I had been in the process of replying on your talk page regarding this, this, this and this edit you made to the Domestic violence and Cardiovascular disease articles. I was going to state the following, or something like it: Wikipedia's health content should be supported by WP:MEDRS-compliant sources. And although that guideline allows poor or mediocre sources on occasion, you should strive to use better sources than the ones you've used at the aforementioned articles. Google Books is only a click away. While I have argued that lay sources should be allowed to go beside scholarly sources or as a standalone for basic health information, there are WP:Med editors that are very strict on the matter of sourcing health-related content and don't want lay sources used in conjunction with scholarly sources or at all. For an example of what I mean, see Wikipedia talk:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)/Archive 10. That discussion shows that WP:Med editors recently removed Mayo Clinic (one of the sources you cited above) from the WP:MEDRS guideline. We can still use Mayo Clinic in certain cases, but you can see from that discussion how WP:Med feels about using such sources; they prefer the best sources available. In that discussion, it was only me and another editor (WhatamIdoing) arguing for reasonable use of lay sources.


 * Besides adding poor or mediocre sources at the Domestic violence and Cardiovascular disease articles, you framed the content broadly, as though those pieces of data are definitive. If something is only a matter regarding the United States, as is the case for a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study, then make that clear; don't make the study sound like it applies broadly. And don't make a study sound as if it applies broadly when different studies report differently, unless, of course, that one study is authoritative or the topic is not so disputed that it requires stating something like: "This study reported this, but this study reported that." Your second addition of the source/text at the Domestic violence article was better, except for the WP:Editorializing you engaged in. And I reiterate that your source is not even close to ideal. Also be mindful of WP:Edit warring. Flyer22 (talk) 16:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Additional comment: BrettofMoore, what is up with the time stamps of your signatures? Those time stamps are not correct; I corrected them above. Have you been copying and pasting old signatures because you don't know how to sign your username? All that you have to do to sign your username is type four tildes, like this: . Flyer22 (talk) 16:40, 29 January 2015 (UTC)



Thanks for clarifying. When I do edits on health related articles, I'll be sure to ensure that I go for the more scholarly resources in the future (although I do find it kinda mind boggling those arent considered reputable).

Sorry about the wrong time stamps. I still don't really have the hang of using Talk pages. Most of my contributions to wiki has not been in Talk page engagement.

And I'll keep in mind always clarifying the region that the statistics are covering. I did not intend to start an edit war. I assumed that clarifying in the edit summary might be enough in these instances. And I had intended to move it to the talk page if there was still issues after. Especially since the domestic violence edit summary made it sound like the source was not the issue, as much as the location within the article. I'll concede to you're superior knowledge in this instance. Thanks for taking the time to talk. --BrettofMoore 17:16, 29 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrettofMoore (talk • contribs)


 * Thanks, BrettofMoore. Sources such as the CDC are reputable, but you'd be better off citing sources such as that directly instead of via one of the lay sources. Just study WP:MEDRS and adhere to it, and you'll be fine at health-related pages. In the future, make sure that you take discussions about reverts of your additions to their respective article talk pages; I pointed you to the talk pages when reverting you in the hopes that you would take the matters there instead of to my talk page. But don't sweat. The same goes for signatures (and I guess you were copying and pasting your signatures?). WP:Newbie mistakes are natural. I made a lot of mistakes as a WP:Newbie, and still make mistakes editing Wikipedia. What is most important now is that you want to improve and will strive to improve in your Wikipedia editing; those types of WP:Newbies are awesome. Flyer22 (talk) 17:32, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Actually... :Wikipedia talk:No original research
Not that it matters, but I didn't respond to the latter part of your comment because I didn't pay attention to it, I didn't realise it was also yours. Guettarda (talk) 00:53, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Guettarda, yeah, this... No problem.


 * Also, I changed the heading of this title by adding ":Wikipedia talk:No original research" so that it's clearer as to what this section is about, and is easier to identify once its archived. Flyer22 (talk) 03:45, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Doodle.com
‎

Hi Flyer22, my addition on the doodle.com wikipedia page from two days ago was removed. I'd like to understand why. It says "good faith" but I am not sure what rule I was transgressing since When2meet, Doodle, and ScheduleOnce are all similar websites. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.166.43.98 (talk • contribs)


 * I reverted you because your addition was unsourced. You shouldn't be jamming a name in there without a WP:Reliable source. Furthermore, there are enough examples. Flyer22 (talk) 13:11, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Green-cheeked parakeet
Please be more careful and check the edit before reverting it. As I said in my edit summary, the wiki links only works with the correction. The correct name for Pyrrhura frontalis is maroon-bellied parakeet (there is no species called maroon-bellied parrot, resulting in a red link), and the correct name for Pyrrhura devillei is blaze-winged parakeet (there is no species called blaze-winged parrot, resulting in another red link). If you're asking about the other half of the edit (common green morph; rare yellow morph), please check the provided citations, which explain these things in detail. I've re-added my edits with an additional citation. If you're asking about "de-capping" of yellow-sided conure→MOS:LIFE. In the new edit I've also re-added Argentina. This was in the article until another editor removed it without reason some time ago. Any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask. 62.107.222.99 (talk) 12:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * IP, I was careful; as seen in that diff-link, I asked you why you are making those changes. You did not only change links; you changed wording. All you had to do was revert me and explain why. Stating "wiki links should work now," as you did before I reverted you, does not fully explain what you were doing. Flyer22 (talk) 12:50, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I thought everything but the parrot/parakeet name change (mentioned in my edit summary) was obvious, as it only required a check of the citation. Additionally, there is no requirement to have an edit summary, although it is considered good practice (WP:EDS). Indeed, the fact that I provided any edit summary places me among the minority as evident by Special:RecentChanges (fun fact: I did a fast check and among the non-edit summary were two admins). Regardless, unless there are any questions to my recent green-cheeked parakeet edit, I consider this discussion closed. It represents the very reason why I can't be bothered to make an account: Too much time wasted on discussions instead of improving articles. 62.107.222.99 (talk) 13:49, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If "everything but the parrot/parakeet name change" was obvious, you would not have felt the need to explain with your "12:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)" comment above. I take it that you think that I was lazy when reverting you; the laziness applies both ways. I am a WP:Patroller, and WP:Patrollers, or any editor, should not have to figure out what you meant because you were too lazy to provide a WP:Edit summary. There is no reason at all that an experienced Wikipedian such as yourself should not provide an adequate WP:Edit summary for edits that are not WP:Minor. As for you not having a Wikipedia account, I highly doubt that you do not have one. Even if you are not using one now, you've had one before. And if you want to educate a Wikipedian on Wikipedia policies and guidelines, you should go and find one who actually does not know them. Your condescension and teaching skills are entirely wasted on me. Flyer22 (talk) 14:03, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Health category
There are a number of articles which appear inappropriately categorised as health. You don't seem to agree with my view. But some appear to be about microbiology etc.

Rathfelder (talk) 22:52, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, Rathfelder. Before you made this change to the section on my talk page, I was about to bring up the fact that I reverted you at a number of articles, including the Vaginal flora article (seen here). I fail to see how the Vaginal flora article does not belong in Category:Health unless one makes the argument that it's already covered by being included in Category:Feminine hygiene. As for the other articles, I reverted you at, seen here, here, here, here, here, and here, I mainly reverted you (as indicated) because you were changing the categories with no explanation and marking the edits as WP:Minor. You should ask about these matters at WP:Med. Flyer22 (talk) 23:04, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I've always though of adjusting categories as minor edits. You are the first person to suggest they aren't.  And I'm afraid I don't think articles about microbiology belong in the health category.  Health is a top category and should mostly be populated by subcategories.  "Health" as a topic encompasses a vary wide area of human experience, and putting all that in the same category doesn't seem helpful.  I don't see why I have to ask permission to be bold.  But if it helps I will mark these edits with reasons.Rathfelder (talk) 23:13, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Rathfelder, WP:Minor is clear about what a minor edit is. At least it is to me. But if you can't see that changing categories does not usually qualify as a WP:Minor edit, especially when it concerns matters of personal preference, then maybe that page should be clearer. Vaginal flora clearly concerns health, as currently noted in its lead, and as is clear by common sense. This is also why it is currently tagged within WP:Med's scope. So, since that article is already in Category:Feminine hygiene, whether or not it should be in Category:Health is a matter of personal preference. Stating that you should ask about these matters at WP:Med is not about permission; it is about having WP:Consensus on a topic so that an editor is not going around categorizing health articles based on his personal views. WP:Med is the WikiProject that deals with health topics, after all. If you don't take this topic there for wider input and instead keep categorizing health topics based on your personal views, I'll take the matter there. Flyer22 (talk) 23:25, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Health contains medicine. Not the other way round. I don't think that is my personal view.  But my understanding of Wikipedia is exactly that editors are expected to be bold, and to apply categories as they think fit.  It other editors think differently then we discuss and reach consensus.  Not the other way round.  Rathfelder (talk) 23:32, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * My understanding was that categorisation was heirarchical. So it makes sense to put articles in more specialised categories.  If we fill the top categories with everything that could be included in them they won't help people to find their way around.  Am I wrong?Rathfelder (talk) 23:42, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Your "Not the other way round" arguments are lost on me. You stated, "I[f] other editors think differently then we discuss and reach consensus." Exactly. I pointed you to WP:Med for wider input. So how about taking it there. This is not a matter to be decided among two editors. Flyer22 (talk) 23:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * "A page or category should rarely be placed in both a category and a subcategory or parent category (supercategory) of that category" WP:SUBCAT  Have a look at the other articles in Category:Health.  I don't think these articles fit there.  They should be further down the hierarchy.  Rathfelder (talk) 00:42, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * "Think" is the keyword. If you are convinced that all of your categorization of health articles is correct, you should have no problem getting wider input on the matter. In other words, I am wondering why we still have not taken this topic to WP:Med. I already stated above, "I fail to see how the Vaginal flora article does not belong in Category:Health unless one makes the argument that it's already covered by being included in Category:Feminine hygiene." That obviously means that I can see it being valid that, under that circumstance, the Vaginal flora article does not need to be in Category:Health. That, however, does not mean that I am willing to leave this matter and similar matters up to you, or up to us. I am done discussing this here. If you want to discuss it further, then take it to WP:Med, or I will. Flyer22 (talk) 00:55, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Following your logic all the articles in the feminine hygiene category should also appear in the health category. I'm very happy for you to get someone involved in WP:Med to review the categorisation of articles. But I am following WP:SUBCAT and WP:BOLD. Rathfelder (talk) 09:27, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * How is that following my logic after what I reiterated in my "00:55, 2 February 2015 (UTC)" post? I've taken the matter to WP:Med since you obviously won't. I referred you to WP:Med for the reasons I stated above, and because I am a part of that WikiProject. In other words, I know how they work; I am familiar with the editors and what their opinions are likely to be, and I generally have no problem going along with what the WP:Consensus is there. Flyer22 (talk) 11:07, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * On a side note: Remember to WP:Indent properly. I've consistently WP:Indented your posts above. Flyer22 (talk) 11:09, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

"Shortened the long-form style of the references"
In this edit you removed my carefully referenced citations using our citation template in favor of unlinked inline citations. Why? Did you invite Rjwilmsi's subsequent clean-up? --April Arcus (talk) 08:40, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * April Arcus, what are you talking about? I didn't remove your citations. Well, except for the Green source that you wanted removed. Like the edit summary states, I changed the citation style from its long format. And all that it took to do that was remove the spaces from in between. I formatted the references similar to how the other references in the article are formatted. If I really wanted to be consistent, I would have removed your Template:Citation style and replaced it with Template:Cite journal. And, ideally, reference styles should be the same within an article; see WP:CITEVAR. If there is any "unliked" reference style, it is your Template:Citation long-form style, since that style is rarely used in Wikipedia articles these days. I don't need to ping Rjwilmsi via WP:Echo; you already have, and what he's recently cleaned up at that article is not my formatting. Whatever the case, regarding our discussion above, I, as you know, recently provided a bunch of sources supporting what I've already stated to you at that talk page (as seen here and here); so I am close to done debating all of this with you. Like I've made abundantly clear, I go by what the WP:Reliable sources state....with WP:Due weight. Flyer22 (talk) 15:12, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I struck through part of my post above because I thought you typed "unliked." Flyer22 (talk) 16:01, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Do you consider linking to citations to be undesirable or unimportant? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. --April Arcus (talk) 17:06, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to understand where you are coming from as well. What do you mean by "linking"? If you mean having URLs in citations and/or linking to the publications in citations, I am fine with that. But I did not de-link anything in your citations. Flyer22 (talk) 17:11, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * My mistake, I misread the diff. --April Arcus (talk) 18:44, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Stonewall
Greetings, I am fairly new on Wikipedia, but was hoping you could clarify the relevance of sourcing if the statements provided to no add to the discussion-and in fact seem to steer the topic into an area that it doesn't fit into? Specifically the section in Stonewallriots-

Garbage cans, garbage, bottles, rocks, and bricks were hurled at the building, breaking the windows. Witnesses attest that "flame queens", hustlers, and gay "street kids"—the most outcast people in the gay community—were responsible for the first volley of projectiles, as well as the uprooting of a parking meter used as a battering ram on the doors of the Stonewall Inn.[73] Sylvia Rivera, who was in full drag and had been in the Stonewall during the raid, remembered:

First-there is no definition of what "Flame Queen" is, I presume it is referring to either flamboyant men, or drag queens. But, "the most outcast people in the gay community" is a preposterous statement. Nothing in the article defines who these people were, there is no citation of what the community was at the time either. Street kids would not be considered outcast within a demographic in the way this line seems to imply. Hustlers? Stonewall has a reputation for being a hookup den. I imagine hustlers would have been all over it anyway. They would not have been outcasts either.

My objection is insinuation without substance. I do not believe that posting a statement about say, a political convention followed by "the most evil there are" would be acceptable based on the neutrality requirement (as I understand them). Plenty of books refer to this or that part as evil as well-so why is it acceptable to include a wispy personal narration such as "the most outcast people in the gay community" which has countless ways to interpret-simply because a book has that line? It certainly doesn't add anything to the paragraph. The people I know who were there just gave me a blank stare when I asked them about it as well, one asked with a degree of profanity (paraphrased) "Everyone there was family, I don't even know what they are saying there. Most were homeless. Most were hustling. Most were queeny.". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordtyp0 (talk • contribs) 18:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, . I noted why I reverted you at the Stonewall riots article. I don't see what there is for me to elaborate on except that I don't find the statement non-neutral if it is a true statement in that context, and I certainly don't find it comparable to stating "the most evil there are." Wikipedia commonly notes when a group is the most disadvantaged group. You stated, "Removed unsubstantiated inflammatory language." I noted that the content is very likely WP:Reliably sourced because Moni3 (who is currently a retired Wikipedian) is known to source her statements well (look on her user page for all of the work she has done for Wikipedia). The Stonewall riots article is a WP:Featured article. A paragraph may not have a citation placed at every sentence; it seems that Moni3 was a big believer in not engaging in WP:Citation overkill. The only reason that I will over-source a paragraph is because so many Wikipedia editors think that if a reference is not at every sentence in the paragraph, then all those sentences except the one with the reference must be unsourced. And as for being neutral, Wikipedia defines being neutral differently than it is defined in common discourse; see WP:Neutral. I also noted when I reverted you that I don't feel strongly about the content staying; so feel free to remove it. Flyer22 (talk) 18:30, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Environment and sexual orientation

 * You have made an edit with the comment: "This is not "many studies"".
 * My apologies, but if you follow the link and read the conclusion section, the author lists 4 other different studies to back up her statement that her study is "not the first". That makes the total 5 studies and I think it qualifies as "many studies".


 * You have used WP:MEDRS to remove a reference to "Science of Relationships".
 * I don't understand how it is an unreliable source. If you look at their editors, they are all Psychology professors or PhDs.  The removed article was written by Prof Dylan Selterman of University of Maryland College Park.  Perhaps I have misunderstood your comment.

205.241.40.253 (talk) 22:39, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * IP, why have you decided to bring this matter to my talk page instead of to the article talk page? I believe that you've come to my talk page before as this IP regarding the Environment and sexual orientation article. I believe that that's you; that belief includes the fact that you both like to use the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health source, as seen here and here, and that you both like to use the word nonetheless at that article, as seen here and here. You also remind me of this editor.


 * I had a problem with that other IP's editing, and now I have a problem with your editing as IP 205.241.40.253. Yes, I removed your "many" text. Four studies is not "many." Furthermore, Lisa Diamond specializes in sexual identity, particularly women's sexual identities. Your text was a blatant misrepresentation of the source, and of what Lisa Diamond has stated on the topic of sexual orientation vs. sexual orientation identity. As much as you want to make it seem like sources are stating that sexual orientation can change, these sources are speaking of sexual orientation identity the vast majority of the time, without specifying that they are. And that is why I decided to make a section on the matter in the Environment and sexual orientation article; because you keep taking advantage of sources tossing the word sexual orientation around willy-nilly. I figured that I might as well enlighten readers on the fact that when they read/hear about sexual orientation changing, it is highly likely sexual orientation identity that the researchers are referring to. This source is not WP:MEDRS-compliant. Read the WP:MEDRS guideline for what I mean. For example, when possible, WP:Primary sources should not be used for any of this content. I am tempted to remove every WP:Primary source from the article. But there is also the WP:MEDDATE "may need to be relaxed in areas where little progress is being made or few reviews are being published" matter to take into account. Flyer22 (talk) 23:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * With all due respect, 5 studies are considered "many". I am going to drop this issue because I just read your final edit and it sounds flowing -- although "Scholar Lisa Diamond" sounds a bit awkward; why not "Prof. Lisa Diamond"?
 * I still don't understand why the Science of Relationships article is considered a primary source. It is actually reviewing the studies done by Prof. Diamond and it is more of a news article, not an academic paper; thus, making it a third party source.
 * For some reason, you're very hyper-sensitive. By the way you like to interpret for the public what the authors meant by "sexual orientation", instead of letting the public decide what the authors meant, alludes that perhaps there may be a personal bias on this topic.  (Just curious - do you hold a PhD in Psychology to override the intention of authors who do hold PhD and are often professors?)  I am sure you're aware that many public have been moving away from Wikipedia because they find bias in articles.  It's most unfortunate.
 * Regardless, thank you for the final edit. Goodbye.
 * 205.241.40.253 (talk) 01:05, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Five studies is not many; the most you can get away with on naming the studies in your case is using the word few or several. Yes, after several years of dealing with POV-pushing editors who add poor sources and/or edit deceptively, I am very hyper-sensitive when it comes to editors POV-pushing sexual orientation matters or any matters, especially in ways that do not line up with scientific consensus. And that goes both ways; this means that I act that way in the case of those wanting to state or imply that sexual orientation is only biological and in the case of those wanting to state or imply that sexual orientation can be changed and/or is a choice. My past actions show that I have dealt with the former type of editor before, and my recent edits at the Environment and sexual orientation article show that I have recently dealt with both types of editors. So whatever bias you think I have on the matter is most assuredly "off," unless it's the bias of adhering to WP:Due weight and WP:Fringe. There is not a legitimate scientist today who thinks that sexual orientation is only biological, that it is only a matter of environment, or that it has a good chance of being changed; scientists of today generally think that sexual orientation is a complex combination of biology and environment (nature and nurture). And, like the American Psychological Association states, "According to current scientific and professional understanding, the core attractions that form the basis for adult sexual orientation typically emerge between middle childhood and early adolescence.," and "Sexual orientation identity—not sexual orientation—appears to change via psychotherapy, support groups, and life events."


 * I did not call "the Science of Relationships article" a WP:Primary source; I stated that it is not WP:MEDRS-compliant; it isn't, or it barely passes that guideline; that guideline does note cases when it will accept mediocre or poor sources. You are free to ask about whether or not that source qualifies as a WP:Primary source and/or as WP:MEDRS-compliant at Wikipedia talk:Identifying reliable sources (medicine). I don't like to "interpret for the public what the authors meant by 'sexual orientation', instead of letting the public decide what the authors meant." I report what the sources state; that is what I did by "enlighten[ing] readers on the fact that when they read/hear about sexual orientation changing, it is highly likely sexual orientation identity that the researchers are referring to." I don't misreport, give WP:Undue weight to matters or add WP:Fringe sources; I make sure to give these topics an appropriately balanced view...per Due weight. What you continually try to do is give false balance to the topic of sexual orientation. If "many public have been moving away from Wikipedia because" of how I've acted on these matters, then they are moving away for the wrong reasons. I doubt that this is goodbye as far our interaction goes, but goodbye for now. Flyer22 (talk) 01:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Kendall Hart: source
Hi! I saw that you had questions about one of the sources I cited (the SID one - entitled "Teen Queen"). I have a scan and ocr of the article with that exact quote (I was unable to find the source for the "psycho looney" quote in the original article that the Tracy source cited from the SID source, thus my change) if you'd like to see? I can upload it and post the URL here? Thanks!! 72.143.228.9 (talk) 08:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Alternatively, if you are uncomfortable emailing a gmail account, feel free to email me and I can provide you with any sources to review. Thanks! 72.143.228.9 (talk) 08:38, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, IP. When I made this edit (first followup edit here), which partly concerns the Soap Opera Digest (SOD) source, I was referring to the part of your edit that changed the "I chose to see Kendall as misunderstood"/"psycho-looney" piece to the "I don't always agree with her methods/"I have to justify her actions" piece. So you are correct in your assumption that that's what I meant. Above, you stated "the Tracy source cited from the SID source," but, looking at The Girl's Got Bite Kathleen Tracy source, page 64, I don't see where it cites SOD or Soaps In Depth (SID). So how do you figure that page 64 is citing the SID source that you have? Does the book state that somewhere? I remember all of the other stuff from the "Sarah Michelle Gellar: Teen Queen" SOD source that I added to the Kendall Hart article, except for the text that you attributed to it. Maybe your SID source is different because it's not a SOD source? And if you meant "SOD" by "SID," maybe my memory is blending two different SOD sources? Maybe the book got it wrong? Maybe it's more than one of these factors? Flyer22 (talk) 09:44, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * With this edit, you can see that I altered my "SID" wording above. But, yes, before I made this change to the article, the WP:REFNAME was "SID." Flyer22 (talk) 09:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply! Yes, it is a Soap Opera Digest article - I just noticed that myself! Anyway, I gleaned that Tracy was quoting the Teen Queen SOD article (the article I'm referring to comes from a May 24, 1994 copy of Soap Opera Digest) based on the other quotes she was taking from that article (ie. summarizing Gellar's interview where she called Kendall "the most terrible daughter on daytime," which is the lead in the Teen Queen article). Gellar did talk about justifying her character's actions but I could not find the "psycho looney" quote anywhere in the context it was used in the Tracy source. The only quote I could find was, "I don't always agree with her methods, but as an actress I have to justify her actions - and I do." Now, that quote may have come from somewhere else but I spent a few days scouring the bibliography at the end of the book with the articles I have, and I have almost all of them - but I am missing some, and I was unable to find it. That's why I changed it - I understand I might have done it incorrectly and I do remember Gellar stating in Pure Soap that she saw Kendall as "misunderstood." However, and this was definitely a mistake of mine, I didn't source the "misunderstood" comment to the Pure Soap episode as I lack the airdates and proper citation information.


 * The article I'm referencing, I do have a scan of if you'd like to see? I can upload it here or email it to you! Does any of what I'm saying make sense at all? Of course, I may have been wrong but looking at the Tracy book and the SOD article, I see a definite parallel, I was able to source many of Tracy's quotes, just not that one. 72.143.228.9 (talk) 09:58, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I did find the "psycho looney" quote but it appears to be used in a completely different context than what Tracy cited it as. It comes from a 1997 TV Guide Article and the original quote appears to be, where Gellar -somewhat inaccurately ;) - recalls her character's various misdeed (because she never shot at people), "It was amazing, playing a psycholoony. I got to attempt suicide. I shot at people. It was great." What do you think? 72.143.228.9 (talk) 10:08, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I think we should err on the side of caution and not tie the Tracy source to different interviews without a WP:Reliable source doing that. Not even if we are certain, meaning with no doubt at all, that the Tracy source is quoting from a specific interview and/or putting the matter in its own words. Tying the sources in that way borders on WP:Synthesis. It's not quite WP:Synthesis with regard to your aforementioned edit to the article, however, since you sourced your text with a different source. I'll take your word for it on what the SOD source states. Flyer22 (talk) 10:26, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Sure! Should the original psycho looney quote from Tracy's book be left in the article in this case? In any case, feel free to email if you ever want to see a scan of the source, if you have any questions for my edits, or if you ever need a soap source. I have a few magazines I've collected over the years and some old SMG era episodes available. I often edit under a dynamic IP as I didn't intend to be really involved with Wikipedia but maybe I should get an account since I find myself editing more and more articles here and there. In either case, you have my contact information :) Is it okay if I wipe my email addresses from my previous messages in your talk page? 72.143.228.9 (talk) 10:37, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * IP, I don't feel strongly either way about which text we stick with, but I'd rather stick with the Tracy text. And, yes, it's fine to have your email addresses removed; I thought it was not a good idea when you listed them unless you don't mind giving your email addresses out in a public forum, or unless they're solely made to be disposable and/or are alternate email addresses. I have removed your email addresses above with Template:Redacted. If you want them wiped from the edit history, see WP:Revision deletion and Oversight. Flyer22 (talk) 15:35, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, it's IP 72.143.228.9! Okay, that sounds good. Would you object to me spending some time trying to find the remaining articles I don’t have from Tracy’s bibliography to look for where that exact quote came from and if I can’t, maybe I can drop you a note to review a possible edit on that quote since you prefer the Tracy text? I know I said this before, that I was able to find most of where everything else came from via Tracy quoted in the Wikipedia article, (eg. being hired and kept in the role due to her skill and resemblance to Lucci is also supported by a late 1993 Pure Soap phone interview with McTavish by Michael Logan and the actresses' similarities observed by a few other articles for instance), but I just can’t find the exact quote for the “psycho-looney” quote in the way it was used - which nags at me as I’m afraid it may have been repurposed or quoted inaccurately. Of course, I could totally be wrong, which is why I’d like to keep looking for that exact quote.


 * Thanks for the redaction on my email address and pointing me to where I can get it wiped from edit history. Admittedly, they are my regular contact addresses and I thought about the potential ramifications after the fact. Anyway, thanks so much for your help and working with me on this! 72.143.233.204 (talk) 05:34, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * No, IP, I don't mind. And you're welcome. Flyer22 (talk) 13:46, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

My mistake: Sexual fetishism article
Thanks for fixing. I thought all that referred only to the picture. My mistake, now I know. Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 21:00, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And I am saving this for my archive of tools for future use. Very useful, thanks. Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 21:05, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * No problem. It was my intention that both of those edits would help other editors concerning image and/or formatting issues. It's good that one of the edits has helped.


 * Also, I altered the heading of this section with ": Sexual fetishism article" so that it is clearer as to what the section is about and the section is easier to find once it's archived. Flyer22 (talk) 21:24, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Benis
What is a benis? I don't see why two edits were reverted to this. A benis is nonsensical and is not a real word. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.202.189 (talk) 00:40, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you would just look at the history of that page, you would easily see that it was vandalism. I have fixed it. -- Brangifer (talk) 00:54, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I know. Because you were fixing the matter, I got a WP:Edit conflict when I was attempting to revert myself and direct people to my talk page for part of the explanation. Flyer22 (talk) 00:57, 9 February 2015‎ (UTC)
 * FYI, I was talking to the IP. Now they know what to do in the future. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:00, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Pertinence
Hi Flyer22. I understood that besides pointing out that I should not have removed the infobox information, that you were in fact in agreement with me in removing the image. That is what I got out of your summary and the link: 1. from the summary: "we do not have to have a picture illustrate exactly what the topic is about" - perhaps I read too fast, I understood that "we do not have to have a picture if it does not illustrate exactly what the topic is about". 2. from the link: "Images must be relevant to the article that they appear in and be significantly and directly related to the article's topic". My issue is that we are perpetuating (being copied by dozens of WP mirrors) the error that this image is about foot fetishism. It is like taking an image of a player with a rugby ball and using it for American football; or a pic of rodeo and using it for a bullfight; a picture of the Rockies and using it for Sierra Nevada. There is a big difference between fetishes and BDSM. That images is being used not for lack of other images, but because it looks as if the one person is busy worshipping the other's foot - it is not the case, she is being humiliated, obeying orders, which could have been to lick the floor, to lick the sole of a dirty shoe etc. No worshipping there, it is about humiliation. Regards, Rui &#39;&#39;Gabriel&#39;&#39; Correia (talk) 02:22, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * No, I was not in agreement with you. That is why with this edit to the Foot fetishism article, I once again pointed you to WP:PERTINENCE, stating, "Rui Gabriel Correia, like I explained in the edit history at Sexual fetishism: Per WP:PERTINENCE, a picture does not need to be exactly what the topic is; all it needs to do is look like it is. There are no other WP:Free images for this topic." It is clear to me that by "must be relevant" and "directly related," WP:PERTINENCE also means "looks like what the topic is about." The image, if no one knows what it is actually about, can very well represent foot fetishism; and it did, at both the Sexual fetishism and Foot fetishism articles, until you removed it.


 * WP:PERTINENCE is clear about the following: "Effort should therefore be made to improve quality and choice of images or captions in articles rather than favoring their removal, especially on pages which have few visuals. Images are primarily meant to inform readers by providing visual information. Consequently, images should look like what they are meant to illustrate, even if they are not provably authentic images. For example, a photograph of a trompe-l'œil painting of a cupcake may be an acceptable image for Cupcake, but a real cupcake that has been decorated to look like something else entirely is less appropriate. Similarly, an image of an unidentified cell under a light microscope might be useful on multiple articles, so long as there are no visible differences between the cell in the image and the typical appearance of the cell being illustrated."


 * I have nothing more to state on this topic. I did not revert you, and have no interest in debating this any further. Flyer22 (talk) 02:36, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Dispute resolution
In regards to the topic at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Binksternet#Feminism_article

I have provided you with the necessary link for you to pursue your claims against me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations

Despite this, you continue to post derogatory and inflammatory accusations about my account. I am formally requesting you to cease this activity, in line with the Dispute Resolution Process. If you believe your claims, you know what needs to be done to have them investigated. Continuing to post messages about me, failing to follow the "Sockpuppet investigations process", or further accusations about my account will be considered hounding, and will result in your conduct being posted to the Administrator's noticeboard for further action by a Wikipedia administrator.

This posting on your talk page fulfills my obligations as a Wikipedia contributor under the Wikipedia Dispute Resolution process. BrentNewland (talk) 23:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Quite the WP:Wikilawyering  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 23:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , I see that you showed up to post the above at the exact same time that the editor I suspect you are related to showed up to reply to me, as seen here and here. Don't put mess on my talk page again. You don't know what WP:Harassment is, but feel free to threaten me some more; see how far that gets you. Your WP:Disruptive editing won't be tolerated here; I reiterate that in case you did not grasp it before. Yeah, I don't believe you. Try to make me believe you, and see how far you get with that. Flyer22 (talk) 23:24, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, be more careful not to throw the WP:Harassment card out there in such a silly way as this instance. Flyer22 (talk) 23:52, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: Regarding this content by EChastain, which clearly misrepresents what I stated at the Neutral point of view/Noticeboard, since, you know, I focused on WP:Meatpuppetry and not WP:Sockpuppetry, perhaps Sonicyouth86, Cailil, and/or Binksternet will correct EChastain on that matter. After all, Binksternet provided further evidence of WP:Meatpuppetry. Then again, EChastain loves to misrepresent what I state and loves to repeatedly ping me via WP:Echo in an effort to annoy me, as I made perfectly clear on EChastain's user talk page. I will not be commenting in that WP:ANI thread, no matter how hard EChastain keeps trying to get me to do so, including by giving undue emphasis to the EChastain comments there by creating subheadings for them. I would rather never interact with EChastain, who cannot even follow a simple Wikipedia rule as WP:NOTBROKEN. And if EChastain comments at my talk page, I will likely revert the comment on the spot. Flyer22 (talk) 18:26, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that change, Cailil. Flyer22 (talk) 17:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

editor reverting my refers changes
An editor Lightgodsy, has started reverting many edits of mine, for no good reason. Maybe you can take a look? Bhny (talk) 14:26, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Bhny, looking at Lightgodsy's contributions, I can tell you for certain that Lightgodsy is not a new editor despite being registered with Wikipedia since December 2, 2015; the account created a user page the next day, which is one of the signs that the user is not new. <Strike>The account stopped editing Wikipedia on January 8, came back on</Strike> February 1; that same day, the account joined WikiProject User warnings, and also declined a request by Gloss at Third opinion. By February 3, the account was citing WP:MOSINTRO, WP:BALASPS and WP:LEADLENGTH in one edit.  Then cited WP:NPOV in another edit. By February 4, the account was using WP:Twinkle, and was citing WP:3RR to Darkwarriorblake. By February 6, the account was citing WP:COMPRISEDOF. When the account reverted you today at the National minimum dataset article, the account cited WP:LEAD, despite the fact that your WP:Refers edit fixed the "is a term for" wording and is allowed by WP:Lead sentence.


 * I don't care what anyone tells you about being a quick learner, Lightgodsy is nowhere near new to editing Wikipedia. And since Lightgodsy knows Wikipedia's policies and guidelines so well, even if misusing them at some points, Lightgodsy should be well aware that following you around and reverting you without valid cause is a form of WP:Harassment. If the WP:Harassment continues, you should report the matter at WP:ANI. Although you can validly question the newness of the Lightgodsy account, be careful not to directly call the Lightgodsy account a WP:Sockpuppet; I state that per reasons I stated in a recent WP:Sockpuppet case when replying to Mr. Stradivarius. Some people get bent out of shape when you call a spade a spade, and think that WP:Assume good faith should be applied even in cases where it should not be applied. I don't like playing dumb, and pretending that I do not notice a WP:Sockpuppet is playing dumb; but I sometimes have to go along with pretending. Flyer22 (talk) 16:43, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Update: I struck through part of my post above because I missed a wave of contributions when examining that account. For example, it turns out that the account was involved with Wikipedia:Third opinion much earlier -- on January 12. Flyer22 (talk) 17:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * While I'm not going to comment on the majority of this at least for the time being, I would like to make one comment. 174.30.119.43 is where I began my contributions to Wikipedia, then I decided to make an account. Prior to this I had never edited Wikipedia, bar maybe a few times over the years prior to that (when using Wikipedia strictly as a encyclopedia as opposed to being a contributor) when noticing minor misspellings or mistakes in articles. — Lightgodsy (TALK<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;"> CONT ) 17:13, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Administrator's notice board
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrentNewland (talk • contribs) 19:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Sociopath
No, you're not one. I already said as much. I am genuinely surprised that you managed to get that article protected. Respect, man! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.14.252.2 (talk) 17:43, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * IP hopper, yes, you "said as much" with this edit by commenting: "Dude you are WP:CONFUSED on so many levels. I think you're looking for WP:RFA. Have no idea how you ended up at Sociopath. The 'elites' at RFA are not very welcoming to sociopaths, though that shouldn't be a problem cuz you don't seem ike one."


 * Word of advice: If you want to thoroughly piss me off, shots like that won't cut it. And if you are surprised that I was able to get Talk:Sociopath protected, then expect to be surprised at what else I can get done on Wikipedia. Clearly, you'll just IP hop to a related article and try again anyway. Flyer22 (talk) 19:50, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Piss you off? Why?--69.50.69.30 (talk) 21:08, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Recruitment for Wikipedian Interview
Hello Flyer22,

We’d like to invite you to participate in a study that aims to explore how WikiProject members coordinate activities of distributed group members to complete project goals. We are specifically seeking to talk to people who have been active in at least one WikiProject in their time in Wikipedia. Compensation will be provided to each participant in the form of a $10 Amazon gift card.

The purpose of this study is to better understanding the coordination practices of Wikipedians active within WikiProjects, and to explore the potential for tool-mediated coordination to improve those practices. Interviews will be semi-structured, and should last between 45-60 minutes. If you decide to participate, we will schedule an appointment for the online chat session. During the appointment you will be asked some basic questions about your experience interacting in WikiProjects, how that process has worked for you in the past and what ideas you might have to improve the future.

You must be over 18 years old, speak English, and you must currently be or have been at one time an active member of a WikiProject. The interview can be conducted over an audio chatting channel such as Skype or Google Hangouts, or via an instant messaging client. If you have questions about the research or are interested in participating, please contact Michael Gilbert at (206) 354-3741 or by email at mdg@uw.edu.

We cannot guarantee the confidentiality of information sent by email.

Link to Research Page: m:Research:Means_and_methods_of_coordination_in_WikiProjects — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pgrobison (talk • contribs) 20:09, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Flyer22. I am Piotr Konieczny (User:Piotrus), you may know me as an active content creator (see my userpage), but I am also a professional researcher of Wikipedia. Recently I published a paper (downloadable here) on reasons editors participated in Wikipedia's biggest vote to date (January 2012 WP:SOPA). I am now developing a supplementary paper, which analyzes why many editors did not take part in that vote. Which is where you come in :) You are a highly active Wikipedian (86th), and you were active back during the January 2012 discussion/voting for the SOPA, yet you did not chose to participate in said vote. I'd appreciate it if you could tell me why was that so? For your convenience, I prepared a short survey at meta, which should not take more than a minute of your time. I would dearly appreciate you taking this minute; not only as a Wikipedia researcher but as a fellow content creator and concerned member of the community (I believe your answers may help us eventually improve our policies and thus, the project's governance). PS. If you chose to reply here (on your userpage), please WP:ECHO me. Thank you! --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 01:06, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

The controversy surrounding Willaim Murdoch
Here is another look at the " apology"; no real ‘full apology’ was ever made. http://www.williammurdoch.net/articles_03_dalbeattie_apology.html

There are many who allege that there is "no evidence" when in actual fact Cameron's depiction is based on quite a number of eyewitness evidence of a shooting/suicide by an officer during the launching of the last lifeboat.

In fact it is more a case of who rather than what, and at present there has been no evidence to be able to remove Murdoch from the list of possible suicide victims. Cameron decided to choose Murdoch as the officer who commits suicide based on the fact that his name appears the most in the accounts and he was in charge during the iceberg collision and during the launch of the last lifeboat.

For more information on the controversy surrounding First Officer Murdoch, and also his portrayal in the Cameron Film, please visit www.williammurdoch.net which has constantly updated information present in an unbiased manner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.96.212.16 (talk • contribs)


 * How does www.williammurdoch.net qualify as a WP:Reliable source? We need one or more WP:Reliable sources regarding what Cameron stated about these matters, such as the DVD commentary included in the article. Either way, this, this and this matter is something you should address on the article talk page, not on my talk page. And, for the record, I don't trust half the things editors keep changing about historical figures at that article. For example, I am well aware of editors who falsify sources. Flyer22 (talk) 17:22, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Single-sentence paragraphs
Why do you keep deleting these? Please stop your destructive editing.

Just kidding. I admire your dedication to their destruction. Keep up the good work. Popcornduff (talk) 00:50, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Popcornduff. You had me fooled with your first sentences above. I was like, "Huh? Are you kidding me? Popcornduff is acting like a total WP:Newbie." Everything on Wikipedia is always so predictable to me, as I've mentioned on my talk page before...in one way or another. So kudos to you for surprising me. Not enough people take the MOS:Paragraphs guideline seriously, so I do what I can on that matter.


 * By the way, do you know what the appeal is to women when it comes to Fifty Shades of Grey? I mean, a part of me, knowing psychology and many sexual topics well, knows the appeal. But the other part of me, perhaps the more rational side of me, cannot see what the appeal is. Flyer22 (talk) 00:58, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I haven't read the book or seen the film, so your guess is as good as mine. My suspicion is that the BDSM stuff isn't very important; it sounds like an inheritor of past sexy-domineering-bastard literary romances like Wuthering Heights or Jane Eyre, though, from my understanding, not as well written. The reviews make it sound like the actual porn element of it is super tame. Popcornduff (talk) 01:12, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * By "reviews," I take it that you mean the reviews for the film. If so, those reviews are clear that the porn aspect is not tame in the books. See this YouTube video of Ellen DeGeneres reading from the book, for an example of the non-tameness. Flyer22 (talk) 10:46, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

I must ask
Do you still think I have "Multiple Wikipedia accounts"? I'll assume you know what I am talking about. DangerousJXD (talk) 03:28, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You're not going to reply are you? You don't have to respond but it'd be nice. -DangerousJXD (talk) 21:48, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I am not angry nor am I trying to anger you. I'd like a response as to whether you still think I'm a Sock Puppet. Then I would not ask you anything ever again. -DangerousJXD (talk) 01:55, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Closing notes
Now I really don't care what you think because I know I'm not a sock puppet. It doesn't matter what you thought or think. The fact is I was never a sock puppet, I was merely a user who you thought was a sock puppet, you were and are wrong. I got zero problem with your contributions to Wikipedia or you in general. I have a problem with the way you treat other users. I am really not angry (even though this message might appear that way). If you would ever like to admit you're wrong or put this in the past and be best buddies, come to my talk page. See ya round Flyer22. :) DangerousJXD (talk) 02:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: To others... See what I stated here regarding the above. Flyer22 (talk) 23:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

John W Scherer edits
Hello Flyer,

I am very new to Wikipedia and am not sure how this part works but I was wondering why you changed the edits I made to the John W Scherer page. I am employee of his, and a close friend, and all of the info I added was factual. The Bio I posted was copied from his site which I referenced. Under the link I corrected the name of one of his companies and added another new one of his. I also added his personal website under the box on the top right.

The reason for reverting them seems to be because the edits were not made in "good faith" but I can assure you they were, there was nothing in there that was not factual and/or referenced. Can you help us out with this, he would really like people to be able to see his current info and correct bio. Thank you for your help, hopefully you see this. -Adrian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adriand32 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, . I reverted you at the John W. Scherer article because I thought you added a bunch of unsourced material, and some of it seems promotional. The content should be sourced, per WP:Verifiability, and it should not come across as a WP:Advert (specifically see WP:NOTADVERTISING). I didn't know that you had copied and pasted the material, but that is another reason not to use most of that text; see WP:Copyright violations. Another concern, per what you stated above, is your WP:Conflict of interest. Flyer22 (talk) 19:55, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, I reverted the edits as WP:Good faith edits, not as non-WP:Good faith edits. Flyer22 (talk) 20:01, 17 February 2015‎ (UTC)


 * Thank you for your prompt reply. Can I give updating another shot as long as it is sourced and there is no promotional info? I can post here to let you know after so you can review. I know I may have a conflict of interest but if I am only updating a bio and am not advertising is that really a conflict? Anyways, thank you for your help with this! - Adrian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adriand32 (talk • contribs) 20:52, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. You have a WP:Conflict of interest either way, but you can go ahead and give updating the article another shot. Per WP:Conflict of interest, it would also be good if you disclosed your WP:Conflict of interest on the article's talk page; there, you can also refer to the discussion you had with me about it. Also, remember to sign your username when discussing matters on Wikipedia talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: . A bot signed your comments twice above. I also fixed your WP:Indentation. Flyer22 (talk) 21:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello Flyer. I made a few edits on the John W Scherer page and would like you to review. I did mention on the talk page that I knew John and would be asking you to review in order to avoid any conflict of interest issues. Thanks again for all of your help. - Adrian 70.166.103.117 (talk) 19:48, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I agree completely: Black Sails (TV series)
With your observation here about season two. I now look forward to each new episode to see what direction the story will take. On another note I wonder if the actors put in a request to only wear makeup that made them look slightly filthy this year as opposed to last years filthy/dirty/grungy appearance :-) Cheers or should I say Avast and Ahoy. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 21:50, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey, MarnetteD. I hope you don't mind me adding "Black Sails (TV series)" to the section title to better reflect what this section is about, which will also help identifying it once it's archived. As for the show, after watching episode 2 of season 2, I found myself thinking how I want to binge on this show and that it is therefore seemingly better than the first season. I was behind by four episodes, and I'm currently intermittently watching the fourth episode. After watching the third episode, I came across the "Black Sails: Can Vane and Max Escape Eleanor's Hold on Them?" article by IGN when Googling stuff about Charles Vane on the show; he, to me, is quite an enigmatic and intriguing character as portrayed by Zach McGowan. In the comments section, I saw other people commenting on how much better season 2 is; that's when I decided to update my user page on the matter. As for the dirty appearance of the characters, you never know. Flyer22 (talk) 22:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * No worries at all in altering the header. I was just trying to be cute by blending the header into the comment. The link also allows your talk page watchers to go directly to the article. Thanks for the link to the ign article. Mark Ryan - the late lamented Mr Gates from season one played Nasir in Robin of Sherwood back in the mid-80s. It is still my favorite version of that legend and might be worth a look if you haven't seen it. One other thing, that elaborate piece of scrimshaw in the opening credits is amazing. I wonder if it is real or CGI. I sure hope it is the former. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 22:50, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the suggestion. I'm also liking Toby Stephens as Captain Flint and Luke Arnold as John Silver; this John Silver is hilarious. One downside to the second season for me is Hannah New as Eleanor Guthrie; I enjoyed Eleanor a lot more in the first season. This season, it's like she's just there, which is like a reverse with regard to the Captain Flint and John Silver characters in the first season; to me, Captain Flint and John Silver were just there, without being interesting. That I'm liking them more this season is not surprising, given the screen time and entertaining detail that they, especially Captain Flint, are getting. Part of my not liking Eleanor as much as I originally did perhaps (I'm not sure) stems from the fact that she, in my opinion, did not do enough to help stop the sexual assaults on Max in season 1. The other aspect to that is that she currently treats Max like she was some random fling. But either way, Eleanor is not written with as much zest this season. Not yet anyway. I'd rather that she not need Vane or any man to rescue her (that whole damsel in distress angle). I wouldn't want her to need a woman, including Max, to rescue her either. Occasional rescues from either gender are, of course, fine. Speaking of Max... What a mess of a love triangle Eleanor is involved in with Vane and Max. Not that all love triangles aren't messes. Flyer22 (talk) 23:28, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Good Grief. I was going to reply to your post and got completely sidetracked - er - blown of course might be more apt :-) I agree with your assessment of things. Especially in regards to the direction they have taken with Eleanor. Toby Stephens is incredible in his performance. Physically he is a marvelous blend of his parents. There are times that I can see Robert and other times he looks so much like Maggie. I sure didn't see the twist in last nights episode coming. If you haven't seen it this isn't too bad of a spoiler cause there were two or three twists at different moments. Have a great week. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 05:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I saw the episode. Before your latest reply, I thought about commenting on it here, but I then decided against it in case I spoil those reading this section on my talk page. Your mention of the twist in your latest comment isn't a spoiler since a person could take it to be about anything. As soon as Miranda spoke of fearing something more being discovered, that told me what she was talking about. But I still wasn't 100% sure. And for those wanting to know the twist, and what people are stating about it, they can see here and here. Flyer22 (talk) 05:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Your editing comments on the sexism article
You were correct in clarifying the principle of of defining terms. But the definition section in atheism is quite different than the definition section in the sexism article. Including quotations from dictionaries as part of an encyclopedia article is not generally done. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background:#E6E6FA;border:solid 1px;border-radius:7px;box-shadow:darkgray 0px 3px 3px;"> Bfpage &#124;leave a message 23:12, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Bfpage, this and this matter should stay at the Sexism article/talk page. I know how Wikipedia articles should be formatted, and there should certainly be a Definitions section for the Sexism article. The many debates at that talk page are a testament to that. How to make that section better is another matter. Flyer22 (talk) 23:21, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree that the term definitely needs to be defined, but quoting dictionaries seems a bit out of place for an encyclopedia article. I really didn't even remove the content but only hid it from article space. All the content is still there so that continued discussion can take place.
 * <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background:#E6E6FA;border:solid 1px;border-radius:7px;box-shadow:darkgray 0px 3px 3px;"> Bfpage &#124;leave a message 23:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I saw your message and editing history regarding reverting my deletion of dictionary quotations in the article. You have asked me to discuss editing changes here. Are you suggesting that I check out every edit with you before I make it? Or did this just apply to the dictionary quotations? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background:#E6E6FA;border:solid 1px;border-radius:7px;box-shadow:darkgray 0px 3px 3px;"> Bfpage &#124;leave a message 02:16, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Bfpage, yes, I reverted you. Then I tweaked the matter here, here and here. I don't know where you've gotten the impression that etymology and/or definition sections cannot include definitions from dictionaries, but you are incorrect on that; inclusion of such material is not a WP:Not a dictionary violation. When an article is mostly a dictionary without any substance beyond that...then you have WP:Not a dictionary violation. After all, Wikipedia has many articles about terms. As long as those articles go beyond what would be found in a dictionary, they are fine. Also, I did not ask you to bring this matter to my talk page. I was clear above that this is a matter for the article's talk page, not mine, if you want to discuss it. You should stop bringing it to my talk page. And don't create extra unneeded sections on my talk page, as you did here. Flyer22 (talk) 02:28, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Personman (talk • contribs) 05:56, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, how "smart" of you. Flyer22 (talk) 06:04, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Rastafari Movement
Hi I saw you edit the information I put on the Rastafari Movement I would like to ask why seeing as I am a Rastafarian?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mi name Israel (talk • contribs) 00:00, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Noetics
Fallenangelius here – remember the wiki is not just a dictionary but a means for the world to share knowledge, experience, understanding and there are readers who will need explanation. I am sorry you were unable to understand my definition of Noetics but I was merely adding what was missing as the quotes are already there - but then I suppose you have to start somewhere! I am an academic and so much more – I must assume you are a PhD who has somehow managed to get by on quotes alone. I will be watching you very carefully and if I were you I would avoid plagiarism lawsuits at all costs. I trust you are beginning to appreciate the beauty of pure “Noetic” thought which seems to be so elusive to so many! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.102.78.3 (talk) 06:09, 21 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , your edit was inappropriate before. And it's still inappropriate. You will be "watching [me] very carefully"? Yes, you and others who like to "watch me very carefully." As long as your watching doesn't get in my way, you will be fine. If it gets in my way, however... Let's just say that your thinly-veiled, half-assed WP:Legal threat will look even sillier than it already does. Flyer22 (talk) 07:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Given that Fallenangelius appears to be sincere (at least to me, about something), I have started a discussion of this addition on the talk page of the article so that we can figure this out. Your input is welcome. Iwilsonp (talk) 00:00, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Userpage
Hi,, just noticed the edit you made to your userpage, what is a "bock log"? Lotje (talk) 12:10, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I fixed Flyer's typo. I spilled salad dressing on my keyboard the other day and now I'm getting similar typos. Viriditas (talk) 09:06, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Kendall Hart: de-linking mistake
Hi, again! It's me, IP 72.143.228.9 (from above with the SOD article). I'm sorry for accidentally de-linking Aidan Devane. I'm definitely still learning the codes and such. It was an over site on my part. Thanks for fixing that! Anatashala (talk) 03:31, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , I considered that you are the IP from the discussion above. As for this, the Aidan Devane article fails WP:Notability anyway; sooner or later, that article will be deleted and/or turned into a redirect. Also, regarding the plot material you added, keep WP:PLOT and Manual of Style/Writing about fiction regarding plot length in mind. As seen here, I tried explaining to an editor about appropriate plot length before; it didn't work out. I initially wondered if you are that editor, but simply are not signing in. Flyer22 (talk) 03:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, I was that editor from before. I was very unhappy with our former exchange and how it ended. Months later after that incident, I left Wikipedia, changed my password into something I would never remember, and destroyed my email account it was associated with so it could never be recovered. I didn't intend on returning, thus why I started editing using my phone (no internet yet because I've just moved). Keeping your advice and WP:Plot in mind, having read about it since, I wanted to take another chance and try varying the article with some different sources, tightening up the former details a bit, and add a bit more detail in the 2002 section, keeping WP:Plot in mind. I've always wanted to make amends because I feel horrible about how that ended. Anatashala (talk) 04:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you for acknowledging that you are that editor; as noted on my user page, and indicated in the section above, I am usually good at spotting past editors (even when I don't know the name of their previous account or accounts). Sometimes, however, I have to chill on directly linking a past account to a new account. For transparency, it would be good if you would note on your new user page the account you previously edited under. I would consider your case a WP:Clean start, but you've resumed editing in the same area you edited in before. Either way, unlike the end of that talk page discussion which coincided with the 2013 discussion I had with you here at my talk page, our recent interactions have been pleasant and you seem more willing to adhere to Wikipedia's rules. Speaking of rules, also see WP:TVPLOT. I think you emailed me in 2013, but I did not want to read it; I'm not sure if I read it, but I know that I didn't reply to it. Flyer22 (talk) 04:14, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, time goes by fast...at least for me. Two years later already. Flyer22 (talk) 04:16, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey, Flyer. Time does go fast! Nonetheless, I've kept coming back to that former incident in my mind and have always wanted to make amends with you. And we seem to have many shared interests in pop culture, which is always awesome. Anyway, thanks for being so cool about this and I learned a lot from that last incident. Admittedly, I had wanted to email you but you did mention you disabled your email so I was unable to. Given my decision to destroy all access to my former account, I will mention my former account on my Talk Page for transparency purposes. Thank-you again for being as nice about it as you are and thanks for the guidance. It's helped me become a better writer overall and not be so quick to jump. Anyway, I'm still searching for that quote we discussed and am waiting on some boxes from my mom's with a bunch of old articles from my old apartment. I think my email is enabled on my page if you ever want to email me for old AMC stuff. I have a ton of it! But thanks again, Flyer :) Anatashala (talk) 04:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, noting your previous account on your talk page will do, especially if you would rather keep a red-linked user page. And thank you as well; you've helped remind me of why I need to be softer in my interactions with editors, no matter how very frustrated I get as a result of various factors (such as being tired/exhausted of dealing with the same Wikipedia difficulties and/or personal issues). So I truly thank you. If more WP:Newbies were like you, Wikipedia would be a happier place for me and others. Flyer22 (talk) 04:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm so happy right now, thank-you! A weight that had been gnawing at me for some time has been relieved and I'm very grateful! I'm so glad our interactions have turned positive and we were able to work together on that last issue well. One last question: I noted my former account on my user page (I got the terms mixed up) but is too late now if I note it on my talk page instead? Anatashala (talk) 04:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It's not too late. And if you would rather your user page be a red link, it can be changed back into a red link by a WP:Administrator. Flyer22 (talk) 04:54, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank-you so much! Anatashala (talk) 05:00, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Keep in mind, though, that a blue-linked user page makes experienced editors more trusting of you; that actually is the way it is. I mention this in the section on my user page about WP:Sockpuppets, but a red link signals "inexperience" and "mysteriousness" to experienced Wikipedia editors; just ask and . See User talk:Trappist the monk/Archives/1. And User talk:Trappist the monk/Archives/1 concerns a different matter. Flyer22 (talk) 05:06, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, that's helpful! And thank-you for bringing to my attention the issues associated with red user links. I wasn't aware of the associations per red and blue user links. I did add some info to my own user page but it comprises of only five (super true) words. Are there specific requirements surrounding user talk pages? I looked but was unable to find specifics - although, perhaps I'm not looking well enough. Anyway, thank you so much for your help so far!! Anatashala (talk) 05:16, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

For anything else you need to know about user pages, see WP:User pages. In your case, you don't have to reveal anything on your user page that you don't want to (though acknowledging your past Wikipedia account there and/or at the top of your talk page is good practice); and be cautious of revealing too much. Flyer22 (talk) 05:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank-you for that, I'll use this as a guide! I also corrected two (of my) minor grammatical errors in the Kendall Hart article but have not added any more plot detail. Thanks! Anatashala (talk) 05:49, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Change to CO2 scrubbing page - Activated Carbon
Hi,

Im not sure what your background is, but there is a rather large difference between absorption and adsorption, I changed the article becuase it was currently incorrect and I am not sure how you can view this change as "constructive" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Demonpalus (talk • contribs) 21:39, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that, . I was quick with the revert via WP:STiki, and moved on. Noted as my mistake. Flyer22 (talk) 21:42, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Re: WP:Blockquotes
Hi Flyer22.

I do not personally feel that those block quotes made the article look sloppy or gave undue prominence to the quotes (though I do think that Template:Pull quote gives undue prominence to quotes). However, I do see how block quotes could make articles look somewhat sloppy or make quotes unduly prominent, and I don't consider us to have a disagreement but a difference of subjective opinion in this specific case. As such, I have no problem with your edit.

In future, I'll consider whether specific uses of block quotes cause those issues because I think you raise a good point, although I expect that for the most part I'll still stick to the length-based guideline. BreakfastJr (talk) 06:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * BreakfastJr, then we agree to disagree on this matter as far as that article goes (well, except for pull quotes, since I don't use those these days). It annoys me when I see editors unnecessarily adding blockquotes to an article, especially a lot of blockquotes, because of the WP:Blockquote guideline; that is exactly why I break up quotes on Wikipedia. That guideline can be a pain. WP:Good and Featured articles usually do not have several or many WP:Blockquotes; WP:Blockquote should be kept to a minimal, in my opinion, something that is especially saved for the actual long quotes.


 * On a side note: After looking at your talk page, I considered that you would reply to this matter at your talk page, which is what I would have preferred so that the discussion is centralized; I'm not a fan of disjointed discussion. If I thought it was likelier that you would have replied here at my talk page, I would have asked you to reply there. Flyer22 (talk) 07:11, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, and thanks for taking my suggestion into consideration. Flyer22 (talk) 07:25, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Photoshopped
Yes the term is certainly in common use for any kind of photo manipulation, but Adobe (like Xerox before them) has discouraged this to protect their trademark, as you may have read. Obviously it would be irresponsible for us to perpetuate this type of use and open WP up to controversy unless we are quoting someone, etc.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 14:38, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * TAnthony, regarding this and this, no, I don't think it is irresponsible of us to generically use the term photoshopped; the reason that I do not think that is because of where the term photoshopped redirects to and what that text states. Adobe can discourage whatever they like, but they can't stop the evolution of language. As various WP:Reliable sources are clear about, the term photoshopped no longer belongs to Adobe. And as for bringing controversy to Wikipedia, not only do I not care if I do, it's gets controversy regardless (whether it's the Bradley Manning/Chelsea Manning matter or something else), and this site has been generically using the term photoshopped for years. If Adobe wants to come after Wikipedia for that, then they should go after the various other sites and sources that do it as well. Every company that has threatened to sue Wikipedia has failed to sue it. And we have WP:No legal threats for a reason. Like this The Washington Post source states, "It has been historically pretty difficult to sue digital platforms for defamation. In many past cases, courts have ruled that platforms such as YouTube are well-protected by their terms and conditions agreements -- a document that any person must say they've agreed to and signed before adding a video to the site. That precedent legally protects platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, Google or Wikipedia from being held responsible for objectionable or illegal things that their millions of users might post at any given moment." So we agree to disagree on this matter. Flyer22 (talk) 22:46, 24 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I dunno, first of all I see it as a colloquialism that doesn't necessarily fit into the style guideines, like contractions. Common language may have people saying "popped" for "murdered" but you're not going to write "JFK was popped in Dallas, Texas." (I don' know if "popped" has been officially added to the dictionary but there are certainly other words that have which we probably wouldn't use in the text of an article). Photoshopped isn't the same thing, and yet it sort of is. Language evolves, but I think what is proper in formal writing takes a little longer to change. I guess I'm looking at it from a journalistic standpoint; using newspapers as the standard, back in the day you wouldn't see "xeroxed" instead of "photocopied" but that's what people often said. The prevalence of blogs and such has really dumbed down grammar and style. But I digress. All the magazine articles in the world can say Adobe has lost "photoshopped" but until it is legally declared a generic trademark, it's just not a generic term. The main article is Photo manipulation for a reason. I'm not saying WP is going to get sued, but ethically we should care how we represent WP via content we add, and informal writing makes us look sloppy. Again, I get that popular media has embraced terms like this, but we're writing an encyclopedia that attempts to stand above US Weekly stylistically (among other things). FYI there are not a huge amount of articles that link to photoshopped or photoshopping and I've resisted the temptation to make "corrections", but in most cases it just reads wrong to me. So yes we can disagree.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 00:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * TAnthony, it's not just popular media that has embraced the term photoshopped as a generic term for any photograph manipulation; this is clear by the scholarly sources found at Photo manipulation. So when I stated, "As various WP:Reliable sources are clear about, the term photoshopped no longer belongs to Adobe." above, I did not simply mean popular media. Professional and respected sources also state "photoshopped" to mean any photograph manipulation. And whether the term photoshopped is linked in a lot of Wikipedia articles, it is mentioned in enough of them, without it being clear that the text is referring specifically to Adobe; same goes for "photoshopping." I appreciate your perspective on this. And we have agreed on a lot of things, especially with regard to soap operas, but we remain at an impasse in this case. Flyer22 (talk) 00:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Something that supports your point, though, is that Photoshop redirects to Adobe Photoshop; I agree with that redirect. And I can agree to use "manipulated image" instead of "photoshopped" (like you did at the Game of Thrones article) when the former is considered more formal. Flyer22 (talk) 01:19, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

wikt:allosexual
Hi Flyer22, I thought you'd be interested in this. An expert Wiktionarian replaced my newbie efforts with a well-made, detailed entry clarifying the confusing, conflicting definitions. It has great sources, showing who has used the term, how, and for how long.

Thanks again for helping me get started last fall! FourViolas (talk) 15:38, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

User:Fairyspit's WP:Sockpuppets
Lady Lotus, I started this section on my talk page because I just saw this and looked at Sockpuppet investigations/Fairyspit/Archive minutes ago, and want to thank you for catching User:February Jones so that I now know which former user(s) this person is. As you can see in February Jones's talk page edit history, I was clear that February Jones has edited Wikipedia under one or more different registered accounts. Like some WP:Sockpuppets will do, February Jones repeatedly blanked his talk page so that the notion was not there. As stated, I did not know who February Jones previously was; all I knew is that I was dealing with a returning editor who was possibly WP:Disruptive. I meant to check up on him yesterday, but instead did so minutes ago, and that's when I saw that he was (not at all surprisingly) indefinitely blocked. I'm not in the habit of starting a discussion at my talk page, but I wanted this documented here instead of at yours. Now that I know who this editor is and what to look out for, you will have my help in spotting him if I see him. Flyer22 (talk) 05:25, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much Flyer. They are indeed a disruptive editor. I've never met such a persistent sock before and their obsession with Benedict Cumberbatch and anyone associated with him is past the point of ridiculous. They've admitted to socking and why they sock which basically boils down to them thinking we don't know how to properly edit and they do. It's infuriating to see their socks continuously pop up but I will continue to SPI them. I've gotten pretty good at spotting them now lol <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #00F,-4px -4px 15px #49F;">LADY LOTUS • <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #F80,-4px -4px 15px #F08;">TALK 12:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * You're welcome, Lady Lotus. Flyer22 (talk) 21:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Reconsider your attitude: Sexism article
Please read through this comment you made: "Nope; I know you read the note. We won't be neglecting to mention this aspect in the lead as long as I watch this article"

That is the wrong attitude for wikipedia! You don't get to be the watchwoman of any article, wikipedia articles are a common good. In this case I don't even understand why you have such strong feelings about it, because the phrase in question was something I just recently added.Lucentcalendar (talk) 18:02, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , I think Flyer meant that since the page is on her watch list, she'll notice if it's changed. I don't think she was saying she's the "watchwoman" of any article. Doesn't seem like something she'd say. IF it is what she meant, then disregard what i just said lol <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #00F,-4px -4px 15px #49F;">LADY LOTUS • <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #F80,-4px -4px 15px #F08;">TALK 19:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , I will not reconsider my attitude on this matter regarding the Sexism article. And, as has been made clear by others at that article's talk page, in different words, it is perfectly fine for me to have that attitude at that article. It's not surprising that you "don't even understand why [I] have such strong feelings about it," but I have already been very clear why I feel strongly about it (my "11:37, 25 January 2015 (UTC)" post), and that I am tired of dealing with men's rights editors, or other "men receive just as much sexism as women" editors such as yourself. You only added that line to the lead to make a point, not because you prefer that it's there; did you think I didn't realize that? You would prefer that the article gives invalid WP:Due weight to boys and men. And I don't mean that I have a problem with a lot more being added about men as victims of sexism to that article; I mean that I have a problem with artificially balancing things, including having that article be half about women and half about men. I already told you, "Your posts as an IP and now as Lucentcalendar show that you are not [following WP:Due weight]. I'm not interested in discussing this topic with you, given the arguments you have made at th[at] talk page. You continue to fail to get the point." The same goes for my talk page as well. Any further posts you make at my talk page about this topic or any other gender comparison will likely be ignored by me, unless I decide to revert them. Flyer22 (talk) 21:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Regarding what you stated here at your talk page, if you truly are not looking for a 50/50 spin on the article, that is good since sexism is nowhere close to a 50/50 thing regarding the genders (boy/man and girl/woman). Also, I added ": Sexism article" to your section heading above to make it clearer what this discussion is about; it will also make it easier to locate once archived. Flyer22 (talk) 00:27, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Mimana
Nihongi was finished in AD720. Is that a 9th-century?--219.165.237.236 (talk) 11:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I think AD720 is 8th-century. But, you insist that is 9th?--IP58xv (talk) 07:42, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Unexplained claim: Pedophilia
From pedophilia Talk page: The text is fine as it is, given the strong inclination pedophiles have to sexually abuse children. One of the things they are known for is their lack of impulse control in that regard. I highly doubt that the vast majority of pedophiles can resist their sexual urges; not without some serious help in doing so.

Can you please expand, where you get the "vast majority", sources or atelast reasoning. Interested, because noone knows the real number of pedophiles in society thus you cant claim something quantitive about something that hasnt been quantified. Would you be so kind and explain please?MärgRätik (talk) 01:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , regarding this, I will only elaborate a bit on it: It regards people who are known (by experts on pedophilia) to be pedophiles. Your argument of "you cant claim something quantitive about something that hasnt been quantified" is like stating that we can't possibly know how people with anorexia nervosa or autism typically are. Anyone who has studied these matters well, as I have, know what they are talking about on them. Impulse control regarding pedophiles is one well-known quality of people diagnosed with pedophilia. Not all pedophiles, but a very good number of them. And the impulse problem, combined with their delusion that the child is able to consent to sex, is exactly why a helpless child should not be left alone in the presence of a pedophile. If you have any more questions on the matter, then I suggest you study it. I will not be debating it with you, since (as I assume you are not well-versed on the topic) debating pedophilia with people who do not understand it always leads to frustration for me and odd comments on their parts. The oddest comment, as you likely know, is when they confuse pedophilia with age of consent and/or age of majority. I don't fully understand that particular confusion, since it was common sense to me that attraction to a person below age 18 does not automatically equate to pedophilia, especially since I looked just as old as my 18 to 20-year-old friends when I was ages 16 and 17. It is age 16 when I started heavily studying pedophilia, and then moved into more serious/professional studies of it and other disorders.


 * On a side note: I added ": Pedophilia" to the heading above so that it is more accurate as to what this section is about, and is easier to identify once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 01:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Maybe replynig is rude, when you sayd that you dont want to have reply to this. Also please dont make assumptions about people who asks question, i do not support pedophilia, the age of concent is there for a reason and i let experts comment on those matters and dont form my own uninformed oppinions which arent based on per-reviewed science, especially on such serious topic.

I think i worded my question badly (probably because this is not my native language). You didnt say anything new to me, ive read about the subject my goal is not to argue, but to learn. Because i dont edit anymore (never done in english wikipedia) and i dont have well versed knowledge of the sources, where who what sayd, reason why i ask here instead of polluting discussion pages.

Anyways the research seems to be done on, like you say: "It regards people who are known (by experts on pedophilia) to be pedophiles". Almost exclusevly groups of people who have commited horrific acts on children or who are afraid they might do so. Ofcourse those groups will show lack of impulse control, that is obvous, they are geting help for a reason. But that excludes those pedophiles who never have had urge to touch children, golden pedophiles as they have been coined, they have no reason to find help etc. And as far as ive read discussions/articles, they are completely unresearched. Unless i am incorrect with those assumptions, claiming that all pedophiles have that uncontrollable urge seems to be a bit far streched when part of pedophile population is completely unknown and unresearched. I do not expect answer, just wanted to clarify before you jump to conclusions (hinting i support pedophilia and might be pedophile myself, is rather serious).MärgRätik (talk) 01:19, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , past experience tells me what to assume. So does common sense, such as when what a person states about the subject shows that they don't know as much about it as I do. "Golden pedophiles," as you call them, do have the urge to touch prepubescent children. Otherwise, they wouldn't be pedophiles. It's just that some of them can control their urges to act out the sexual activity. And the "control" is usually dependent upon significant medical help or other support. After all, groups like Virtuous Pedophiles exist. Nowhere did I state that "all pedophiles have [the uncontrollable urge to sexually abuse children]." But I reiterate that your belief that I can't state "the vast majority" (when impulse control in pedophiles has been proven time and time again/is very common) because of a possible unknown population of pedophiles is a belief that lacks validity. That is not how medical research, or research in general, usually works. We do not state, "Oh, people with anorexia nervosa may not be typically like [so and so] because there is a whole possible population of people with anorexia nervosa out there that we have not researched." The same goes for pedophiles. Pedophilia is rare anyway. Unless dealing with well-accepted scientific theories, research typically goes on what it knows. And I know what I am talking about on this matter. I suggest that you cease talking about it with me, as I am not interested in debating it with you. Flyer22 (talk) 02:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

What the hell is wrong with you.....MärgRätik (talk) 11:37, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I would ask the same thing of you, but I already know the answer. Flyer22 (talk) 22:19, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I would leave it be if you woudlnt accuse me of beeing a pedophile (again, i can call it personal attack and deformation without any reason). You sit on your high horse like its nothing. I have somone close whos into the Japanese young cartoon things (Lolicon) and i want to learn more as i am worried about him (thou as ive talked to him he has no interest in real girls, but still have to be careful). But some pompus person refuses to understand and read what i mean. That is shown by the fact you literlaly make things up, as you claim i am here to debate when i am just confused and i dont know where to look more. Ive read 30-40% of pedophilia archives and read thro the article and it does not answer the question i pose. I apologize for disturbing your utopia in here. I would prefere if this section would be deleted as its attempt by you to slander me.MärgRätik (talk) 22:44, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I will not delete this section. I suggest you move on. And nothing on Wikipedia is a utopia to me; it is quite the opposite. Flyer22 (talk) 22:47, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Edit change: Kane Williamson
Hey Flyer22, just letting you know my recent change to Kane Williamsons wikipedia page claiming him the worlds sexiest man and giving him the nickname 'The Sex Machine' has been widely accepted in the New Zealand community as fact. If you happened to catch the Black caps vs Australia ODI you will understand why he has adopted this name, I was just doing a public service taking it upon myself to correct his Wikipedia page. I assume his Wikipedia page will be changed back to how I had edited it after you read this, so would like to preemptively thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.173.161.172 (talk • contribs)


 * Laughing my ass off!! Thanks for that, IP. Flyer22 (talk) 22:04, 28 February 2015‎ (UTC)

History of Ethiopia
My edit to the History of Ethiopia is very necessary because Emperor Menelik II did not commit any atrocities against any Southern Ethiopians, especially the Oromos. They were already considered Ethiopians at the time and helped fight off outsiders such as the Italians, British and Portuguese. As for your evidence, you used a source of biased secessionist Oromo writers. I guarantee you there aren't any sources out there to back your stance. I just want the common public to know what really happened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Genious12999 (talk • contribs) 23:16, 28 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , I reverted you here because your edit was WP:Disruptive. I don't have any stance on that particular text, other than that your reason for deleting it should be valid. Those are not my sources. Flyer22 (talk) 23:27, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Alisha Estelle Heng Page
Can you delete the page the article is a bit irrelevant and it doesn't even have the right name of the person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AmeliaRozimarie (talk • contribs) 00:47, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Personal attacks: Articles for deletion/Violence against men (4th nomination)
Stop it. I do not have any registered Wikipedia account, and intend to keep things that way. Your insinuation that I'm "editing while logged out" is a falsehood and a personal attack.

And again, the MRM has nothing to do with Gamergate. 76.64.13.4 (talk) 03:20, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Learn what WP:Personal attacks are, and do stop playing stupid. Coming to my talk page is more silliness on your part (not to mention predictable), considering that it won't accomplish a thing in your favor.


 * On a side note: I added "Articles for deletion/Violence against men (4th nomination)" to the heading above so that it is clearer as to what this discussion is about; it will also help locating the discussion once archived. Flyer22 (talk) 03:39, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

I think you are very smart, but why are you such a crusader?
If there would be a personal note message, I would have send it to you in private, if you find this an uncomfortable message, feel free to delete it from your board. I also do not want to attack you as a person, but try to give you a non-aggressive impression of how I see you behaviour. Please don’t see this as stalking, I always try to understand the people I argue with and currently we are moving around on similar pages.

You are active extremely aggressive toward any changes in feminist articles, and extremely hostile towards any male issues being broad up. I can imagine that very often you are faced with people acting in bad-faith, wanting to push through some stupid agenda. By taking up an open fight with those people and also attacking the few people acting in good faith, you are weakening your voice.

There are issues with sexism and violence against men. They are far far less then against women, but they should have a place on Wikipedia. However, not as a collage of stupid articles, but based on the existing research. By trying to block everything, you are acting like a censor.

On the other hand, many of the sexism/violence articles about females could really use some good rework. Look at the violence and sexism against women articles, it’s a strange collection of everything that somehow affects women (fashion, jokes, birth practices,…). This indiscriminate collection may even have a weakening effect on the many points! (Have a look at the research of Christopher Hsee on the averaging effect of the human mind) There is little about the definitions, causes, and remedies which should be the true purpose of an encyclopedia. (some of these articles seem like they are off buzzfeed "What are the top ten ways to harrass women...?"

I hope this did not offend, you. All in all I think you could be an even better editor if you would leave some space for opinions you don’t share and if you would channel your strength better.Lucentcalendar (talk) 10:44, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Lucentcalendar, you stated, "If there would be a personal note message, I would have send it to you in private." Either you don't know a thing about emailing a Wikipedian, or you are playing like you do not. Either way, I would not have responded via email. Why am I such a crusader, you ask? I am only "such a crusader" in cases named in the "Main type of editing style" section on my user page. And if you cannot understand why I am "such a crusader" regarding those topics, there is even more reason for me to not want to interact with you. You don't know a thing about me, and that includes your inaccurate descriptions in this section. For example, you stated, "and extremely hostile towards any male issues being broad up" and "trying to block everything, you are acting like a censor." Those statements are false. One example is that regarding the Violence against men article...I was clear that I wouldn't mind if that article existed, but I gave ample warning about recreating it. Am I displeased with how the recreation of it turned out? Clearly.


 * You only know me from my intolerance of the same, tired mess at the Sexism article and the Articles for deletion/Violence against men (4th nomination) that you followed me to. In the section above, I already told you what my deal is regarding these topics. You have already been told what the deal is on your talk page by a different editor. And Jytdog has explained what the deal is to Bfpage. And, yes, Bfpage, I certainly edit many more articles than those, and (despite what that list shows) I did not create the Wartime sexual violence article; I fixed a poor move of the title. I do not edit many "feminist" articles, and I've been clear on my talk page before that I do not identify as a feminist. I edit gender articles, yes, but that some of them concern feminists is inconsequential to me. Because you, Lucentcalendar, share enough of the ideals of these problematic men's rights editors and don't know a thing about what it takes to be a good Wikipedian, you do not respect how tiresome and upsetting dealing with these same editors are, and why we have sanctions against them and sanctions on these articles. While you are not yet banned from my talk page, you certainly are not welcomed at it. It is in your best interest to stay away from me. Flyer22 (talk) 22:19, 1 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, and enjoy the brownies you got from two editors who have not only stalked me, but try to mimic aspects of my editing style. One of them (DangerousJXD), as noted or seen here, here, here and here, is particularly obsessed with me. So, yeah, you're in good company. Flyer22 (talk) 23:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I agree with him on one point – you're very smart. Just a random comment to counteract a bit of the abuse you seem to constantly receive. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:43, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I am sorry that you see it this way, I will not contact you anymore, I do not care about any brownies, I always try to be as objective as possible, and actually currently I still know so little about wiki interface that I don't need to act stupid, I am.Lucentcalendar (talk) 08:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Alisha Estelle Heng
Hey, Flyer22, I'm writing you because you reverted an edit on this (now) deleted page and I'm wondering if you have ever seen anything like this before on WP. I saw a lot of blocking going on with sockpuppets (see Sockpuppet investigations/Jemima West/Archive) working on this article which was later deleted because, well, the page was created by sockpuppets. But I found a cached version on Google because I was curious who this person was and, by the deleted article account, she is a 17 year old model and actress.

The strange thing is that she lists acting credits and when I checked IMDb, she is not on any of the cast lists and doesn't even have her own profile listed. YET, when I checked out the links which led to reviews of these films, she is prominently mentioned! Most of these sites are large blogs with user contributed film reviews but the authors who wrote these reviews contributed dozens of film reviews, they were regular authors. I know that IMBd is not considered a reliable source but, in this case, the movie pages receive a lot of scrutiny and I'm assuming any vandalism would be easily undone. But how can this person, who may or may not exist, get herself included as a cast member on films that she didn't appear in? The roles are real characters in the films, but they are played by other actresses. I guess this is why blogs, even large established ones, aren't considered reliable sources. If she is just a 17 year old, I can't figure out how she did it! Liz <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 21:09, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'm here to answer my own question but I think this is a rather brilliant trick for a teenager to pull off. She created a profile of herself (http://www.metacritic.com/person/alisha-heng) and put herself on a lot of movies cast lists. Then, I guess some blog reviewers are a little lazy and when they go to review a film, they just go to MetaCritic and copy the film information from there without checking to see whether it is accurate. So, now, this 17 year old has her name written into all of these film reviews, both in the U.S. and UK, when she has never been in a movie before...and the reviews were cited in her WP bio! I'm surprised that more wanna-bes haven't done this before or maybe they just haven't been caught yet! Any way, I just thought I'd let you know. Bye, Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 21:35, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Your restored template: Date rape article
Hi Flyer; Your restored template here a week ago. This 'merge' seems stale with last comment from June 2014 (eight months). It seems like the template should be retired or its time to close out the discussion. Thought you might want to check the dates. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 00:35, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * LawrencePrincipe, yes, I restored the template; this is because I still intend to have those articles merged for reasons I stated in the merge discussion. I will get around to it, and I do not plan to rush, especially since the talk page is barely active in general and does not have an automatic archive.


 * On a side note: I added ": Date rape article" to the heading of this discussion so that it is clearer as to what this discussion is about, and will help identify it once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 00:47, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Neutral notice
There is an RfC at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television whose outcome could affect WikiProject Film. You may wish to comment. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:41, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

What's wrong with this edit? Sexism article
[]? Look at it again - it fixes typos, challenges statements which have the citation needed tag, and clarifies some things. Aside from the change to the lead, which is even arguably OK, everything else looks like an improvement to me. Banedon (talk) 11:53, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Really? The changes to the Etymology section are an improvement? --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 12:01, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * No, but I don't think they made it worse either. Banedon (talk) 23:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, . I don't disagree that some of the IP's changes were okay. But not only did I consider the IP's removal of "especially against women" from the lead to be wrong (for reasons that are obvious to anyone who understands WP:Lead, and because of my posts on the article's talk page about how the lead should be in that regard), adding "may have" to "Women in pre-agricultural societies held equal positions with men" was not quite accurate; scholars are generally certain that women did have "equal positions with men" in some ancient societies; that's why I tweaked that text here and here. I also objected to the IP making it seem like sexism especially affecting girls and women is only a historical matter; you know, like it's not a present matter. And the "Indeed, sexism is historically associated specifically with discrimination against females, though definitions are typically gender-neutral." sentence that the IP added to the Etymology and definitions was WP:Editorializing; by that, I mean the "Indeed" part and the fact that definitions of sexism are not usually gender-neutral (not in full anyway); at that article's talk page, we've repeatedly been over the fact that definitions of sexism especially focus on women.


 * Anyway, I tweaked the lead, as seen here and here, in a way that is likely to help decrease agitation in those who would become upset at seeing the lead point out that sexism especially affects women. I also added "Sexism article" to the heading of this discussion so that it is clearer as to what this discussion is about, and will help identify it once it is archived. In the future, will you take an article matter to the article talk page instead of to my talk page? It should be on the article talk page for wider input, and better documentation regarding commentary on the article's content. Flyer22 (talk) 13:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Typo fixes here; the ones that I spotted. Flyer22 (talk) 13:52, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I put this here instead of on the talk page since I got the feeling you did not read the edit in its entirety before reverting, but since you clearly did, I don't have any objections. Banedon (talk) 23:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

unhelpful": Talk:Violence against men
this was off topic. almost baiting. self restraint is a good thing. suggest you strike. Jytdog (talk) 14:32, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Jytdog, that characterization is incorrect. What I stated there was already being discussed, which I noted minutes ago. When I see an opportunity to correct someone's inaccurate statement, or educate them on a matter, I am likely to take it. Other times, not so much.


 * On a side note: I added ": Talk:Violence against men" to the heading of this discussion so that it is clearer as to what this discussion is about, and will help identify it once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 14:39, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I agree that discussion of female genital mutilation there is generally off-topic. But I believe that I was on-topic at that moment since it was being discussed there. Sometimes comparisons are made in an on-topic discussion. Female genital mutilation was the comparison. Flyer22 (talk) 15:16, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Jytdog, I really don't see this as problematic. I'm honestly surprised that the talkpage isn't even half as bad as the heated AfD. It looks like pretty normal content discussion to me.
 * Peter Isotalo 21:43, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * i stopped watching. at this point i am not participating  in articles on a fast track to AE where editors lack self-restraint. Jytdog (talk) 21:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Spanish Civil War, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Isthisuseful (talk) 22:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Reducetarianism
Greetings. You deleted my work on semi-vegetarianism that incorporated reducetarian into the page. Your explanation was that I had cited only primary sources and that the term was a neologism. I would like to re-introduce those changes. Regarding the primary source issue, I can produce numerous secondary sources which have already begun using the term. Regarding the novelty of the term, please recognize that the other term used all through the page, flexitarian is only about a decade old.

If I do produce the numerous secondary sources that use or discuss usage of the term, will you please refrain from deleting my work? Whoistheroach (talk) 23:11, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I like your work (and I'm a fan of the concept of "reducetarianism") but the reason Flyer22 removed the material is because it didn't have good sources when you first added it. I'm sure if you stick to using the best sources, you won't have a problem in the future. Viriditas (talk) 23:21, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Whoistheroach, regarding this edit (followup edit here), even if you do add good WP:Reliable sources for the term, I don't see why the term needs to be mentioned in the article, especially in the WP:Lead. Wikipedia has topics that go by a lot of different names, but that doesn't mean that we should list all of those names in the article, especially when the names are very new neologisms. Wikipedia is not a fan of neologisms, which is why WP:Neologism and Manual of Style/Words to watch exist. Yes, reducetarian is a WP:Alternative title and you redirected the term to that article, but that does not make it WP:Lead material. Significant alternative titles are what should be in the WP:Lead if it is decided that the significant alternative terms should be in the WP:Lead. Reducetarian is not a significant alternative term for semi-vegetarianism. If you re-add it to the Semi-vegetarianism article, but lower instead of in the lead, I won't object, however.


 * In the future, will you take an article matter to the article talk page instead of to my talk page? It should be on the article talk page for wider input, and better documentation regarding commentary on the article's content. Flyer22 (talk) 00:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah, great point. Still kind of new to editing Wikipedia with any seriousness.  Thanks for your input! Whoistheroach (talk) 15:11, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Sexism
You are one of the main reasons the sexism articles remains a mess. Allow others to shape the article instead of stifling valid contributions or edits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.12.140 (talk) 00:12, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, yes, I am such a problem to that article because I maintain that the lead should mention that sexism especially affects women, per WP:Lead and WP:Due weight, and I won't let editors like you try to give the topic false balance. Yes, even though I have not heavily edited that article and almost all my edits to that article so far concern reverting mess, I am the reason that the article is the huge mess that it is. Keep telling yourself that. But first, sign in and stop being such a coward by posting to my user talk page as an IP. This and then you showing up at my talk page soon afterward is not a coincidence. Flyer22 (talk) 00:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Are you reverting mess? Because reverting mess would imply you're cleaning up an article, rather than protecting the mess it already is. Why does me using my IP bother you? Why is it less cowardly to use some arbitrary user name over an IP address? Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, I just think it's a shame you also think you're entitled to impose it upon everyone else. Oh and you could have considered the rest of the edit before reverting all of it. US-centricity is an ongoing problem with that article, with conclusions drawn from studies of only Americans being applied to the rest of the world's population. I tried to address this in my edits but nevermind huh? 77.99.12.140 (talk) 00:46, 3 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Reverting POV-pushing messes that try to balance things that are not balanced is indeed reverting messes. Protecting a mess from becoming a bigger mess is usually a good thing. And, of course, it's cowardly to sign out and post as an IP address so that I and others can't tie you to your registered account; WP:Scrutiny is clear. Then again, a few WP:CheckUsers watch my talk page and would have no problem divulging which registered account someone uses if that registered account is engaging in WP:Harassment, as you are now.


 * Speaking of getting bored, are you not yet tired of stalking me and posting to my talk page, especially after trying to (it seems) hurt/faze me/whatever and vowing that you wouldn't be posting at this talk page again? IP, I've been through worse Wikipedia stalkers and harassers than you; there isn't a thing you can state to me that will have you get your way in this case. As for your edits to the article as that other IP, if it was you: I already replied in the section above, as you no doubt know. Whatever you do now, it's time to ignore you here at my talk page. You will be ignored from here on out by me at this talk page. And, see, unlike you, when I state that I am done, I mean it. Flyer22 (talk) 01:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
 * 77.99, please back off right now. You're acting the protagonist in a personal dispute that is almost beginning to look like harrassment. Editors who get involved with articles relating to gender, sexism or feminism usually have to put up with a lot of crap. Right now, you are merely piling on more of that. Wikipedia is not a battleground.
 * Peter Isotalo 09:59, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Fairyspit
These socks are so infuriating! They just continue to pop up regardless of how many times they have been blocked or told to stay off wikipedia. I wish there was a way to just block the person from editing so they can't IP hop or make a new user. Ugh! lol <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #00F,-4px -4px 15px #49F;">LADY LOTUS • <span style="text-shadow:4px 4px 15px #F80,-4px -4px 15px #F08;">TALK 13:01, 4 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Lady Lotus, I am going through similar with User:RJR3333. He is one of my top past and current harassers. And, believe me, he loves that title. He even took to Yahoo! Answers to get counsel about what to do regarding his declaration that he hates me. And he acknowledges that he is the person who started that query. I only found that query years ago because I Googled "Flyer22" and/or "Flyer22 Wikipedia." As many editors who frequent WP:ANI know, Googling your username is quite useful for a variety reasons...whether it's to see who has tried to learn about you and possibly WP:Out you, who is WP:Canvassing against you, who hates you, who likes you, and so on. And, of course, you might also see that people share your username. I barely care if a Wikipedia editor likes me or hates me (and I can always tell if the editor is genuine about liking me, even though I may never let on that I do). And if an editor suddenly ignores me each and every time, then I have my answer there as well. But if the like or hate disrupts Wikipedia, my care factor rises a notch or two. Right now, as noted on Tiptoety's talk page, RJR3333 is raging war against me, including by employing use of.


 * In addition to RJR3333, I now have IP 77.99.12.140 calling for my blood. You see, those who negatively obsess after you will commonly target the articles you edit and try to discredit your work, like IP 77.99.12.140 did with this edit to the Todd Manning article. Notice that there is not a thing in that article that lacks sources (except the lead, which, per WP:CITELEAD, does not necessarily require sources)? Yeah, so do I. But IP 77.99.12.140 tagged it with Template:Refimprove anyway. And that is typical stalker/harasser behavior. Furthermore, Figureskatingfan, who has gotten a lot of articles to WP:Good and WP:Featured article status, has significantly fixed up that article; it is not written like a fan page in the least. Figureskatingfan is patiently waiting for me to finish constructing that article's plot summary so that we can nominate that article for WP:Featured article status, and I thank her for that. I have other tweaks that I want to make to the article before that nomination as well. Flyer22 (talk) 23:12, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Sockpuppets, television shows, etc.

 * Fly, since you invoked my name, I will respond and say that I am one of your fans here. Wow, the crap you put up with!  You're the patient one, pal.  I'm not as patient as I am busy, with RL concerns and crises that pale in comparison to Wikidrama.  I know that you have a lot to contend with, and I have other stuff to work on here, so there's no hurry.  For example, I'm improving List of Sesame Street Muppets, which was destroyed by another editor, and will bring it to FLC shortly.  And I have other stuff on my list to work on, once that Muppet Characters bio arrives.  Spring Break is coming up, yippee!  BTW, I did as you suggested, and didn't find anything exciting, other than discovering that User:Scartol mentions me in the Acknowledgement section of his book of short stories.  It reminded me that I need to buy it!  I'm actually loving Howarth on the few times he's on GH these days, and the few times he's been on The Flash (2014 TV series), which may be why Franco was injected with LSD and is in the nuthouse right now (yah, I know you don't watch GH, silly!) makes me want more! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 00:37, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * When it's an editor I've significantly bonded with, whether on Wikipedia or elsewhere online, then it's not as though whether they like me or not hardly matters. But I certainly always remember that online friends or acquaintances are usually not the same as real-life (also known as offline) friends or acquaintances and that the bond has a significantly stronger chance of being broken in the case of the online crew. Regarding the Todd Manning article, going for the length style that the Nicholas Newman or Sharon Newman WP:Good articles use for their plot summaries would be good to a lot of people, but I don't think that I can get Todd's plot summary that short without cutting important details, so I will settle for something close to the Charlie Buckton WP:Good article plot summary length. As for Howarth, the only reason I knew that Howarth had likely starred on The Flash is because of this edit an IP made to the Roger Howarth article. Is the new The Flash series any good? Bignole, any opinions on The Flash or anything else stated above?


 * As for your real-life issues, Figureskatingfan, I'm sorry to read about your troubles; as you know, you are always free to email me about them. It seems that you enjoy Spring Break; the only time I got its appeal is when I was in middle school and high school. College is iffy in that regard. As for Scartol, I take it that you mean you Googled your username. Flyer22 (talk) 03:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * As for The Flash, I find it extremely entertaining and it's generally getting better as the season goes. It's finding it's footing really quickly (not as good as Arrow, but still very good). As for the other stuff, I'm not sure which you are referring to: Dealing with sock puppets, or trimming plot sections? :)   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  03:38, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Bignole; I'll be sure to check the series out. I liked The Flash (1990 TV series) back when I was a kid (though I don't remember much about it now). I've been meaning to watch the new The Flash series, but real-life stuff, hobbies (including other television shows) and Wikipedia have gotten in the way. For example, as noted here, I recently began watching the Spartacus series. And, wow, it's difficult to get past Andy Whitfield's absence; what a talented actor he was. As for the rest, I meant any of the above. You've gotten various articles to WP:Good or WP:Featured article status. You and Figureskatingfan know that I modeled the Todd Manning article after the Jason Voorhees article that you brought to WP:Featured status. And I know that you are good at cutting plot material. I went to wordcounter.net minutes ago, and I see that the Sharon Newman plot summary is at 1386 words; 8530 characters, the Nicholas Newman plot summary is at 1207 words; 7391 characters, and the Charlie Buckton article's plot summary is at 1292 words; 7630 characters. So Charlie Buckton's plot summary is shorter than Sharon Newman's. As we've discussed at the WP:SOAPS talk page before, it's commonly difficult and/or tricky trying to cut daytime soap opera plot material because daytime soap opera characters usually have so much more plot material to cover since daytime soap operas usually have new episodes weekly and their characters have often existed for decades.


 * Figureskatingfan, months ago, when looking at Todd Manning images online, I came across this blog post, which points out that video game character Murphy Pendleton looks like Todd Manning. Apparently, others have noticed. Interesting. If I still played video games, like my brothers do, perhaps I would have known that. I haven't given up on video games, but, if I play them these days, it's occasionally. I'm more of a Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy 8, Resident Evil, Grand Theft Auto era video gamer. Yeah, generally the late 1990s. Flyer22 (talk) 04:23, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, socks are difficult. You're best bet is to ignore what you can and report everything else. Eventually, they'll move on. Especially if you can get them identified quickly. As for plot, I do remember how notoriously hard it was to trim soap plot sections. There are always essential questions 1) Is it truly important, or does it feel that way because I know the show? 2) Can I summarize the event to remove unnecessary details? (e.g., "Several months later, Sharon shoots Adam when he tries to visit her at the Abbott cabin (mistaking him for a burglar); he survives." --> "Mistaking Adam for a burglar, Sharon shoots Adam, but he survives." or "During a cliffside photo shoot Phyllis threatens to tell Jack about the affair, triggering a fight. Sharon and her best friend Drucilla Winters (Victoria Rowell) fall from the cliff, and Drucilla dies. Sharon is found apparently dead, but she is revived." ---> "Phyllis threatens to reveal the affair, causing a fight to break out and Sharon's best friend is killed.") These are the basics. It may seem important, but the reality is that since Sharon doesn't actually die, I don't need a play by play to know she fell off a cliff and survived. It apparently didn't have any lasting physical damage to the character to make it noteworthy. That's how you can trim anything to really just stick to the essentials. It's similar to how I write horror films. I don't need to say that Jason cuts John's head off with an industrial hedge clipper, when "Jason kills John" is more succinct. It doesn't have the suspense of the former sentence, but we're not here to entertain or substitute for watching the programming.    BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  04:48, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

That is excellent advice regarding trimming plot sections. While I don't edit soap opera articles a lot these days, I still edit enough film articles and I've gotten better at trimming plot detail because of that. Thank you very much for the tips.

On a side note: Did you like the 1990s Flash series? Two comic book series that I loved in the 80s and 90s were The Incredible Hulk and Swamp Thing: The Series. Were you into the latter two? Flyer22 (talk) 05:30, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I own the DVD collections of all three, if that answers your question. :D I'm a big Bill Bixby fan, and still find the original Incredible Hulk to be a fairly well written TV series (comic book stuff aside).   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  05:55, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes. I could have a The Incredible Hulk marathon today and thoroughly enjoy it. Flyer22 (talk) 06:05, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Figureskatingfan and Bignole, I finally watched The Flash, and I love it. I'm all caught up with the series. When I initially started it, I wasn't sure that I'd like it or love it. But as I grew to know the characters and the episodes kept getting better, I became hooked on it. Episode 15 is the best so far. I love the dynamic between Barry and Joe. I enjoy Cisco's humor. I like the diversity of the cast; for example, that they have an African American Iris West. Reading the Trivia section of the Wikia Joe West article reveals more on that. I enjoy some of the guest stars, especially the Prison Break brothers (Dominic Purcell and Wentworth Miller) and Liam McIntyre of Spartacus: Vengeance. And Roger Howarth is in charge of newspaper matters again, like he was on One Life to Live. Yeah, I'm hooked.


 * On a side note: I created a subsection heading ("Sockpuppets, television shows, etc.") for this discussion since this section is mostly about things other than Fairyspit. Flyer22 (talk) 10:04, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm glad you like it. My best friend was the same way. After the first episode, he was like "this seems too cheesey" and "Grodd is a stupid villain". Now, it's his second favorite show next to Arrow, and he thinks Grodd is badass. LOL. Also, I appreciate the fact that there is a gay captain of the police, and it's not a plot point. It just is. Far too often I see being gay, or coming out, as a gimmick to draw in viewers. I cannot think of the last time that it just existed in a show and wasn't a focal point, or done in a stereotypical manner.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  13:02, 24 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I like the action as well and the special effects are decent. As for the romance, it wasn't until the last few episodes leading up to Episode 15 that I felt romantic chemistry between Barry and Iris. As for the gay aspect, I was thinking similarly. Well, I was thinking similarly of the African American and gay aspects. It used to be common that if a black character was on a show, then a racial storyline would result; there would be some heavy focus on the person's skin color. These days, that usually is not the case. I remember seeing the initial trailer for The Flash and thinking how cool it is that they seemingly have a black character as the Flash's main love interest. I know that some fans have insisted that Iris should not be black, but I guarantee that similar would be argued if a blond Superman were cast instead of the black-haired Superman image we are used to seeing; some people are just so insistent that characters have the exact look they have in the comics. Anyway, the coming out story has been done a lot in recent decades. These days, it seems that shows are realizing just how much it's been done and that the fresher and/or better approach is to simply have the gay character exist on the show without all the drama concerning the character being gay; this is a point that a lot of LGBT advocates argue -- to just present the character as an acceptable variation of humanity instead of as something that needs be a scandalous event, and that this will help acceptance of LGBT people in the real world. Flyer22 (talk) 03:34, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Bignole, there are some WP:Reliable sources out there about the diversity aspect of The Flash, which could enrich the The Flash (2014 TV series) article; see, for example, "this Arrow and Flash Creator Greg Berlanti Aims to Make TV Superheroes 'Look Like America'" source from The Advocate and this "So what if the Flash now has a black girlfriend?" source from the Los Angeles Times. I could type up a decent Diversity section for the article. Not sure if it should be placed as a subsection of the Broadcast section or as a standalone section. Or if it shouldn't be a section, but rather a single paragraph in Critical reception section. Flyer22 (talk) 10:26, 25 March 2015 (UTC)


 * That could be really cool. Why don't you type something up, and we'll look it over and find the most logical place for it. :)   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  11:55, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Peter O'Toole
Good work but these are not good faith edits. They are why the article is protected. Quis separabit? 18:29, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Dred Scott
Hey i made edits to Dred Scott. because it says he was born in 1799 but it says on multiple sources like (http://www.biography.com/people/dred-scott-9477240, http://www.historynet.com/dred-scott , http://famous-blackpeople.com/dred-scott/) that he was born in 1795 and you keep telling me im putting it wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:6:8580:4fa:9da3:deb2:8544:5cb4 (talk • contribs)

Cunnilingus
FLYER!! :( I'm sorry but I don't know how to send you a message, I have looked everywhere to try to send it to you on your talk page but its not working! I just wanted to thank you for fixing my edit on the direct quote I edited on the cunnilingus page, I honestly didnt realize it was a direct quote until later that day and planned to change it, dont ask, I dont know why I didnt think "quote" was any less than direct....hahaha until I forgot and didn't change it :( I like how I worded it more, they made a sucky quote ill be honest but whatever. :) Im not normally this punctuation-unfriendly and such but I'm on my iPad and feel like being lazy. It's pretty late here. BTW, my name is Caroline! :D Nice to meet you! Love, FERRETSROCK <3 Ferretsrock (talk) 11:16, 5 March 2015‎ (UTC)


 * Hello, . You're welcome regarding this edit. As you can see, I needed to tweak the quote anyway; the original format of the quote was my mistake.


 * To start a new section on an editor's talk page, simply click on "New section" at the top of the talk page of the editor you want to communicate with. For this discussion that we are currently having, all you need to do is continue replying in this section if you want to communicate with me further. And remember to sign your username when discussing matters on Wikipedia talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: . I moved your post down because, per Talk page guidelines, new sections go at the bottom. And I signed your username above. Flyer22 (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Captain Griggs
He has also been adding this, even though it was decided not to include that at the discussion at Talk:Andrea (The Walking Dead) that you started. 2601:D:B480:ED2:6D38:EAD:3D14:1262 (talk) 12:42, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Let him know about it, or other problematic edits he is making, on his talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * In fact, pinging him via WP:Echo in this section may help: . Flyer22 (talk) 22:52, 5 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, don't be surprised to find out that Captian Griggs is . Flyer22 (talk) 00:38, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Drovethrughosts regarding this edit, where you reverted Scream4man, I take it that you are in agreement that we should not be using these non-WP:Notable last names? Or perhaps, if we do, it should only be in the lead of the respective character articles? "Interesting" that Scream4man suddenly popped up to support Captian Griggs's point of view on this matter. Flyer22 (talk) 02:50, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we need to have a WP:TALKCENT discussion about this at Talk:The Walking Dead (TV series). Flyer22 (talk) 02:51, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Seems reasonable. 2601:D:B480:ED2:6D38:EAD:3D14:1262 (talk) 06:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey, I just saw that I was mentioned here. Are you referring to me adding Harrison to Andrea? If so I didn't know it was decided against since that's her surname. And as for Captain Griggs, who is he? Scream4man (talk) 21:07, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Joseph changes to LEDE at shades of grey
Hi flyer; r u on board with Joseph changes to LEDE at shades of grey. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 03:14, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey, LawrencePrincipe. I'd noticed this fix of "it's" to "its" that Drm310 made, but I didn't see this edit by until you brought it up. Josephlalrinhlua786 usually doesn't edit leads, and I am pleased that, unlike how he used to be, he now often provides good or decent edit summaries. I'm not sure if he fully understands WP:Lead, but his expansion of the lead is in compliance with WP:Lead. That stated, as has been noted at Talk:Fifty Shades of Grey (film), the reception material in this case is not as clear-cut as editors and readers would like, and it's therefore been good to do away with "generally negative" or "generally mixed" type of wording at that article, including in the lead. This comment shows that Popcornduff wants some critical reception material in the lead, however. I'm just not sure how best to relay that material in the lead, given the talk page debate about the critical reception for this film. And so that is why I did not answer Popcornduff's query on the lead aspect. I intended to answer it at some point, but I'm tired of debating this. Flyer22 (talk) 03:43, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Short follow up. So you are accepting shift to LEDE accepting discussion of negative reviews versus mixed... LawrencePrincipe (talk) 03:52, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm not willing to tackle the matter at this time, per what I stated above in this section. Flyer22 (talk) 03:55, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks.
I found and fixed the rest (and more importantly, fixed the script). Cheers! bd2412 T 03:26, 6 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Regarding this, BD2412, you're welcome. Before that, I attempted to get your attention regarding this edit by thanking you for it via WP:Echo before I fixed it. Flyer22 (talk) 03:43, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Better to drop a note on my talk page for something like that. Given my edit rate, I get a steady stream of "thank you" notes. bd2412  T 04:21, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Game of Thrones article

 * Padenton, since that article/talk page is on my WP:Watchlist, there is no need to alert me to replies concerning the matter at hand, whether it's via WP:Echo or my talk page. I will eventually read your latest comments there and reply. If I stop replying, it is because I have nothing more to state on the subject or am no longer interested in debating it. Flyer22 (talk) 23:03, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Noted for the future :-) --Padenton (talk) 23:06, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Transsexualism edits
Hi,

I edited out the bit on medical discrimination for stealth transsexual people because I couldn't see the connection between stealth transsexual people and medical discrimination. Discrimination occurs regardless of whether or not transsexual people disclose their transsexuality. Perhaps it would be reasonable to move the content out of the section and place it in a more generic discrimination section.

I object to your activist comment, btw. I'm not pushing any particular POV - I see myself as being able to act as a steward for these articles, as I have some experience with the subject matter. Chocolate vittles (talk) 04:46, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Chocolate vittles, this bit is a matter for the article's talk page. As for my opinion that your edits have a WP:Activism slant to them, I stand by that opinion. While I appreciate your experience on these subjects, I am also well-educated on these topics and often see WP:Activism at these and other Wikipedia articles (especially those concerning sexual, gender, religious and LGBT topics). You currently state on your user page that you are not well-versed in editing Wikipedia. Since I am, I wanted to let you know my opinion of your edits thus far and that you should be keep WP:Activism in mind. You should also keep in mind that Wikipedia defines neutrality differently than how it is defined in common discourse. Flyer22 (talk) 05:00, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

A kitten for you!
For putting up with significantly more bullshit than I'd ever have the patience to deal with. Keep on editing even if haters try to throw roadblocks and meaningless labels in your way!

Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 17 Adar 5775 05:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC) <br style="clear: both;"/>


 * Thank you, Flinders Petrie (Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie). I very much appreciate what you stated at WP:ANI. What you and NinjaRobotPirate stated. I try not to be so grumpy on Wikipedia, but it's often difficult for me not to be grumpy; I was grumpy for a lot of 2014 and I've been grumpy for some of 2015. I'm working on being less grumpy, but that obviously doesn't always work out (especially because of personal issues that I'd rather not go into on Wikipedia). Flyer22 (talk) 05:42, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think part of the problem is that you reply to every message, and if I did that I would go insane. :) Viriditas (talk) 06:14, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You're welcome! Unfortunately that statement had to be the most measured it could be for WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL purposes—disgust, revulsion, repugnant, and sickening are words to avoid using on talk pages. Most of my friends in real life are female as the field of archaeology is now dominated by women. A few of them have been the victims of rape and sexual assault, many have been victims of stalking, and all of them have been harassed many many times. So this particular trail of abuse on Wikipedia really angered me (and if you check my edits, you'll see that it's nigh impossible to anger me here). Anyway, those are my reasons and I think they would match the reasons of the fast growing number of men who refuse to put up with women being treated as if they were sub-human objects rather than equals (and well, you guys do kind of kick our asses in many fields).
 * Anyway, you've shown remarkable restraint in dealing with those two, but it's good you've chosen to speak up about them (and hopefully they get a harsh punishment). If I may, I know you've said you like to ignore this kind of thing, but make sure it doesn't get to the point where it stops you from enjoying yourself here. If someone starts treating you in a way you're not cool with, then report their ass. It's not even being grumpy, you're actually doing everyone a favour, and so you're being helpful! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 17 Adar 5775 06:15, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Just read that ANI. I agree with NinjaRobotPirate's comments there. I get some shit (like this gem from Lucentcalendar), but nothing quite like you endure. Keep up your awesome work. I'll try to keep a closer eye on edits and watchout for hounds bothering you.  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 06:27, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You're certain that wasn't a troll post? Such a grossly ignorant post couldn't have been written by anyone seriously speaking their mind. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 17 Adar 5775 06:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Referring to the link I posted? That user was editing on violence against men. Not sure if troll, MRA, ignorant user, or all of the above. But I just refused to engage. Same user posted above. The two individuals mentioned in the ANI gave them brownies for that comment to Flyer22 too...  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 06:35, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, everyone. Viriditas, I suppose I respond more than you do to harassers, but, like I mentioned in the aforementioned WP:ANI thread, I usually do ignore my harassers. Well, after initially engaging with some of them, I ignore them...unless an article calls for me to interact with them. I almost always ignore the drive-by insults, whether made to my user page or talk page, because I know that someone else is likely to revert and because I don't want to WP:Feed the trolls. For example, this IP recently mocked me with a sexual image. I thank Slightsmile for reverting the nonsense, but I would have left it on my user talk page just so that the IP doesn't get the impression that he has fazed me, and so that I can point to one of the many downsides of editing Wikipedia. Ignoring these people can upset them, however. When I ignore some of them, they start to continually seek my attention and become obsessed with doing so. What I stated in that aforementioned WP:ANI thread serves as an example of that. Flyer22 (talk) 07:59, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Nice cat. It's often tricky to know when to leave the disruptive post and when not. Ninety nine percent of the time the one today would qualify for a revert. So here ignore and deny recognition is the way to go. Good way to do it. Slight  Smile  00:23, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry I never said anything before. Although I wasn't really aware of the extent, I still knew that you were a constant target of harassment. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:59, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * No apology needed. Just thanks for being a good editor and helping when you can. Flyer22 (talk) 09:02, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Note for documentation: Like I predicted would eventually happen, Bfpage deleted the subpage. Note that most of what was there is in Bfpage's talk page edit history. I refused to respond on the subpage partly because I know that subpages can be deleted on a whim. Flyer22 (talk) 23:43, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * An odd thing about Bf is that they claim to be a 52 year-old Aussie grannies. Also, if this and the things he said there were any indication, I don't think that Dangerous actually comprehended that what he did was wrong or accepted that it's disgusting behaviour. I'm no expert, but this sounds like a social competence and WP:THERAPY issue. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie &#124; Say Shalom! 18 Adar 5775 00:09, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

You have received mail
 Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) Please &#123;&#123;re&#125;&#125; 22:07, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Medical Assistant
You need to find a better way to describe medical assistants in the first paragraph. Please do more research about medical assistants, certified medical assistants and registered medical assistants. There is A BIG DIFFERENCE! Please understand that we (certified medical assistants) worked just as hard as nurses to get our degrees and certification and that should be respected! No, we are NOT physician assistants, and yes that should be clarified. No, we are not nurses but you need put CMA's in a better light instead of just saying "medical assistants are not nurses" no offense but it's kind of condescending since we are trying so hard to be recognized for our hard work and dedication. Did you know my college requires all students enrolled in the medical assisting program to acquire an associates degree along with our certification? Not all educational institutions do that but there are many that do. LVN's (licensed vocational nurses) do not get an associates degree. We are trying to educate the public about medical assisting so we (CMA's) are not undervalued. We do EVERYTHING nurses do in the CLINIC SETTING in the state of Texas; certified medical assistants are trained for the clinic setting and not for the hospital setting, nurses are trained more for hospitals and skilled nursing centers. Yes, some states are different but many states do not have restrictions on medical assistants. There are two sides to medical assisting; administration (which does include medical billing and coding) and clinical (vitals, injections, venipunctures, ect.). You might try explaining that only certified medical assistants are trained in accredited educational institutions (community and junior colleges) and medical assistants that are not certified are not. More hospitals and clinics are adapting policies to ONLY hire CMA's everyday. The AAMA's goal is phase out medical assistants being hired off the street (so to speak) and pave the way to higher pay and more respect for CMA's in the medical community. Please help us do that, not bring us down! Kaseydperryman84 (talk) 22:11, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, . I don't need to do any research about medical assistants. I reverted you at the Medical assistant article, seen here, because you messed up the MOS:BOLD (the title of the article should be bolded in this case) and because your additions were unsourced; see WP:Verifiability. Flyer22 (talk) 22:17, 8 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You are correct that the WP:Lead sentence was condescending. I restored part of your wording (typo fix here). Flyer22 (talk) 22:29, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

From a queer studies graduate who's also queer
Greetings Flyer22,

I appreciate your hard work maintaining the article Queer. At the same time, I'd like to point out that you should not consider yourself a spokesperson for all queer people. I wrote in my edit summary that most queer theorists I have read, including Gay Shame and Jack Halberstam, take pride in their otherness, and that's a perspective that shouldn't be silenced. I'm glad you're critiquing what I wrote, but, as someone who also has elevated rollback permissions, I would like to remind you that rollback permissions shouldn't be used casually, but rather when someone is vandalizing a page numerous times, which I am not. Feel free to help me fine-tune my language if you're opposed to non-normative as a descriptor, but please do not rollback all of the minor and major grammatical and substantive changes I've taken time out of my day to contribute to this collaborative project. I am more than happy to work with you, but that requires that you assume good faith.

Best, The Obento Musubi (talk) 00:47, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I would also like to say that my goal in editing this page isn't to water down queerness for to be palatable to a mainstream audience. My goal is to craft a space where all people—including and especially queer people—can input their knowledge and experiences with the queer community and foster a space for dialogue. That's just in case you think my edits about political assimilationism are too "out there" for Wikipedia. I want to utilize Wikipedia as a site of knowledge production and knowledge sharing rather than a cut-and-dry identitarian overview of queerness, since queerness is so rich in its sociopolitical history and inter-identity solidarity. The Obento Musubi (talk) 00:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Obento Musubi, I do not consider myself "a spokesperson for all queer people." Rather, I know a lot about queer topics and other sexual topics, and I know that your use of "non-normative" language in the article will cause unnecessary offense to many queer people. There is nothing wrong with simply stating "non-heterosexual," as the article did before your edits. I already explained to you that your "non-normative" language is also a WP:EGG violation. I also did not use WP:Rollback to revert you. I have no further interest in discussing this matter with you. Do keep the things I stated in my mind, as well as the WP:Activism essay. Flyer22 (talk) 00:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Definitely, but I think this could be a good space and time to have a discussion about the role of subjectivity and objectivity, and I think people who consider themselves "objective" are more subjective toward the status quo than they may think, especially when using exonymic sterilized medical terms such as "homosexual", or even "male" as a noun. I'm not saying queer is good or queer is bad; I'm saying that queer was constructed in opposition to normativity. If it weren't for that and other reasons, LGBT+ would suffice. I'm just telling a truth that many a queer scholar has stated. Feel free to change my verbiage regarding normativity and non-normativity, but please for future reference do not undo all of a user's edits when made in good faith. You may not want to discuss "this matter" with me, but that's the point of collaboration, and I strongly suggest that you consider how your actions either foster or disrupt the collaborative nature of Wikipedia. I'm personally cool to listen to anyone who's open to discussion, especially if they're queer, but I'm not here for people who think they own an article in a communal space such as Wikipedia. When you're ready to collaborate, let me know. Until then, I'm here to improve the project, not fight with folks with elevated privileges. The Obento Musubi (talk) 01:05, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Obento Musubi, thank you for fixing the WP:EGG violations at the article. Also consider the MOS:HEAD aspects I mentioned. I'm generally interested in working with editors who are willing to follow Wikipedia's rules. As for Revert only when necessary, I don't adhere to that essay because the things it considers "unnecessary reverts" are things I consider "necessary reverts." I don't believe that reverting should only be applied for WP:Vandalism or other very destructive edits. While we are on the subject of discussing essays, I suggest the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle to you. As for my sexual orientation, as noted on my user page, some people think I'm heterosexual, some people think I'm lesbian or bisexual. Others think I'm asexual because of my involvement with the Asexuality article. Whatever. I let them remain guessing. The only personal things I let Wikipedia know about me are on my user page. Flyer22 (talk) 01:27, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * That's cool, and I personally don't care however you identify. I'm personally just feeling hurt because as someone who's queer and is trying to add to the queer article my own experiences, I felt that reversion was a form of silencing. I'll doublecheck the MOS:HEAD aspects you mentioned at the talk page and will make those changes for you. Thank you for engaging. I appreciate it. I wanted to discuss it here rather than there because I didn't want any public discussions to sour anything between us because at the end of the day, I think both you and I are here to do good at the project, not ruin it. I understand if you don't want to edit Queer anymore, but in the future, you can feel free to give me constructive feedback because I think more perspectives give queer a richer painting of all of the aspects of my/our community. The Obento Musubi (talk) 01:33, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Obento Musubi, okay. I apologize for hurting your feelings. Flyer22 (talk) 01:42, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * And, The Obento Musubi and others, for an example of an editor who thinks she's know my sexual orientation, see this post by FeralOink at Leprof 7272's talk page. Not only does she assume she knows my sexual orientation, she mischaracterizes my statements/actions, and insults lesbians as though they couldn't possibly know so much about female sexuality. As seen in that diff-link, Leprof 7272 was smart enough to remove the content. I wonder if I should have it WP:Oversighted; never mind, I will simply point to this discussion in Leprof 7272's talk page edit history. Yes, what a "wonderful editor" you are collaborating there with Leprof 7272. Any very experienced Wikipedia editor can see the mistakes (shown here and here) that FeralOink made concerning the unfortunate discussions she and I had. For example, stating that references are promotional links just because one of the references mentions female genital mutilation and the other references link to the publishers in the references? Those are misguided rationales. Hopefully, she will keep her tendency to bash me off Wikipedia, like she usually does. Flyer22 (talk) 02:55, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Any reference to you by FO or any other editor at my Talk page will be deleted, as most entries are (because I have little desire to engage in User:Talk conversations in general), also in this case, because I have no desire for ill will with you, or to be dragged into battles where I have nothing to add. (I have a single agenda here, as my User page makes clear; my orientation is solely toward writing and editorial excellence, esp. in the areas where I am expert.) For this reason alone, I would have FO and you do your battles directly, in my absence, and not in any fashion vicariously through me. Should you wish to engage me on any matter relating to an article or its quality, at specific articles, I am glad to comply. My participation at Human sexuality came as an outside party, where I was asked to review a critique made by an IP editor. You have begun to make be sorry that I gave the time to do the analysis. Nevertheless, I stand by my last statement there, and the possible productive way forward that exists for that article. 50 page references to King await someone, or a just as suitable reductive scapel. Cheers, bonne chance. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 03:22, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * A final note. Call on me any time for child protection matters, and know that I log in when I remember to, which is not always, that I often edit from IP addresses (because I can, and have no interest whatsoever in edit counts), but that I do not enter any dialogs in multiple voices, though at times can be seen to be editing variously from login or IP at the same article. Shoot me. No, I mean seriously, please, so this ends. Or, order me something from EOTL or Sluggos, and lets get busy. Leprof 7272 (talk) 03:45, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Leprof 7272, whatever your reason for removing FeralOink's bashing, you were smart to remove it. I don't know her outside of Wikipedia, though I have stumbled upon some of her off-Wikipedia postings. That is not an editor I am interested in interacting with, and that is certainly not an editor I can respect. Though I disagree with your overtagging and some of your interpretations of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, I see you in much higher regard than that editor. Regarding the Human sexuality article, I do not mind if you get to work on it; I would rather see people working on that article (what I consider actual working on that article) than tagging that article. I think that you were contacted by Liz, who used to edit as an IP, to work on that article. I cannot blame Liz for wanting to see that article improved. But part of what some editors here need to realize is that just because I have sexual articles on my WP:Watchlist does not mean that I am the one significantly responsible for the state of those articles. Some people act like their poor states is my fault. No, the reason that these articles are not in worse states or are improved little by little is partly because of me. There are a few, or several, sexual articles that I have significantly fixed up. The Human sexuality article obviously is not yet one of those. Well, other than when I cut a lot of stuff from it. Flyer22 (talk) 03:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You have stumbled upon my off Wikipedia postings, Flyer22? I see. I am finding this behavior and attitude rather alarming. Please do not involve me further, if you would be so kind. --FeralOink (talk) 11:51, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * FeralOink, I would not have stumbled upon some of your off-Wikipedia postings if you had not posted your sites on your user page. If you find the behavior of learning more about an editor from reading their user page (including clicking on whatever sites they may list) rather alarming, then you will find that it is rather alarming behavior commonly engaged in at this site. I never "involve you further" until you involve me, which always includes a matter of you thoroughly bashing me. Take note that while I have barely thought about you, you are the one who bashed me off Wikipedia. Yeah, I seem to have a lasting effect on people in that regard; by that, I mean that while I could not care less about the negative people and I move on, quickly ignoring them, they forever post about me in one way or another. And while we're speaking of kindness, it would be a kindness if you would see to it that you stay the heck of my talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 20:06, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If you are not averse to reductive editing, may I volunteer to fill the red inkwell, to sharpen the proverbial editorial scissors? Seriously, if you cut things that are unsourced, know that you will have a ready ally. And be assured, I am no fan of tags, and will gladly see them go away, hence in part the work at G Church… that is, unless they remain accurate, and to forewarn readers as to poor article quality (which, you know from me, is tied to verifiability). Finally, note that while WP:this and WP:that have come up a couple times between us, I have no interest or desire in that sort of discourse, either. Have a look at my (boring) Talk page, for reasons, though you'll likely find it as opaque as you aimed yours to be. Oh, and Liz—a possible source of the referral, but cannot be sure, given elapsed time, and disinterest in wikiarchaeology, but sure, why not. And I will likely not edit HS again, unless it's clear that I am needed/wanted for what I know. Cheers, b'nuit. Leprof 7272 (talk) 04:11, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Hey,, why don't you get cracking and make every sexuality article on your watchlist a Featured Article. What? That "only 24 hours in a day" excuse is so old. Seriously, though, I appreciate all your hard work on these articles, and I consider you our very best editor on sexuality topics. Thanks for all you do here, and keep sticking to our policies and guidelines. Consider this a "text barnstar". <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  04:03, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * LOL, thanks, Cullen. You know how much I respect you. Flyer22 (talk) 04:06, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The feeling is mutual. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  05:33, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Breaker of Chains
Hey Flyer22, I don't appreciate you reverting my edits en masse like that.

1. I will work on pruning the size of the quotes. I would appreciate your assistance as long as you are civil about it.

2. The comment in the lead paragraph of that section says it's purpose is to frame the controversy. My edit does not say explicitly nor implicitly that Joffrey's corpse being there was the cause of the criticism. It is to set the scene, as is the goal of that lead paragraph.

3. I don't need consensus, nor your permission in the talk page to make constructive edits. --Padenton (talk) 02:22, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Padenton, what I see you mostly doing at the Game of Thrones and Breaker of Chains articles is making POV-pushing edits with a misunderstanding of what WP:Neutral means. You act like being neutral on Wikipedia means what it means in common discourse; it does not. The first paragraph in the aforementioned section of the Breaker of Chains article should be clear what the controversy is about; the content that I reverted to is clear about it. Yours? Not so much. And the wording you are changing is WP:Consensus wording, worked out thoroughly on the article's talk page, which is where you should be addressing this matter. I was clear in the discussion above that such discussions are for the article's talk page, not mine; you indicated that you got that point. Flyer22 (talk) 02:38, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you explain to me exactly what POV you are alleging that I am pushing here? The purpose of the section is to describe the controversy of the scene as well as the intentions of the director, writers, and the cast involved in the scene.  I put this on your talk page because my issue seems to be with you, not with the article.  You could have been civil about this from the start by looking carefully through my edits, rather than undoing them all at once with the revert button.  --Padenton (talk) 02:44, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * If you cannot see how you are POV-pushing at both articles, particularly with regard to rape, especially after others have noted the problems with your edits at the Game of Thrones article, then I don't think you will get the point. And again, this is not a matter for my talk page. That I am the one who reverted you does not make your changes to the WP:Consensus version of an article a matter for my talk page. And calling your edits POV-pushing when they are is not being non-WP:Civil. Flyer22 (talk) 02:50, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * This is a ridiculous straw man. I removed blog sources in Game of Thrones because I felt that is what WP:RS called for.  It doesn't seem like you read the discussion there either, just as you refused to read my edits on Breaker of Chains before undoing all of them.  And your repeated claims about WP:Consensus? I just looked at the Talk page.  I see absolutely no consensus on that entire paragraph, which is what you reverted my edits on (after reverting all of my edits in the entire section, which there is also no consensus on).  The only consensus I see here is for the words Jaime "forces himself upon" Cersei, which I will happily put back, and you could have changed back at the beginning of this without any issue from me. I would not have cared.  A revert of all my work however, that hurts.  I do not appreciate that. --Padenton (talk) 03:08, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It's done. I'll start working on trimming the quotes tomorrow, as it's getting fairly late.  If you still disagree with it, I would appreciate if you considered it change by change rather than undoing an entire paragraph or the entire section.  When making those edits, I didn't just sweep through the section once, I jumped around and tried to improve what I thought could be better, more consistent, or even a more direct source.  So there are a lot of changes for a lot of different reasons, throughout the section.  Thanks.  --Padenton (talk) 03:24, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't feel that it is a ridiculous straw man at all. I read the Game of Thrones talk page discussion well, including what appears to me to be your inappropriate need to give the controversy regarding male and female nudity the same WP:Weight; they do not have the same WP:Weight in that regard. You clearly want to downplay the female nudity/heterosexual male criticism the show has received, and that it's clear that people generally view the controversial Breaker of Chains sex scene as rape. If you cannot see the WP:Consensus, in the Need link to source and Undue weight sections at the Breaker of Chains talk page, then we are interpreting WP:Consensus differently. This aspect has been worked out there, at the Game of Thrones article talk page and at the Game of Thrones (season 4) talk page. What I mean is that editors came to WP:Consensus about how these sections should be. Each aspect of the section does not need to be debated for the sections to have WP:Consensus. Flyer22 (talk) 03:26, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * You're taking one change out of several and using it to extrapolate a motive you believe I have. Clearly, this has become personal for you.  You keep attempting to bring the changes to Game of Thrones into your reasoning for reverting my changes to Breaker of Chains. Yes, I made a few bad changes to Game of Thrones.  They were undone, and I read Caidh's comments, and now we're discussing how to best setup that section.  I'm having issues with absolutely no one there, except for you.  As I said, you clearly never read the changes I made to Breaker of Chains because if you did you'd know that almost none of the changes I made to the latter were for WP:UNDUE or WP:NPOV.  Most were to improve consistency in sentence order, I changed the source for David Benioff's quote from someone quoting him in a video to the actual video, I added a more thorough and honest representation of the director's intentions.  I even added one of the articles that you claim goes against 'my agenda,' which you actually removed again when you reverted all of my edits.  And it's all there in the diff for anyone to see.  You keep mentioning WP:Consensus, how about the WP:TALKEDABOUTIT section where it says "Editors may propose a consensus change by discussion or editing. That said, in most cases, an editor who knows a proposed change will modify a matter resolved by past discussion should propose that change by discussion. Editors who revert a change proposed by an edit should generally avoid terse explanations (such as "against consensus") which provide little guidance to the proposing editor (or, if you do use such terse explanations, it is helpful to also include a link to the discussion where the consensus was formed)."  I also don't see any consensus in the sections you mentioned saying it is undue to have an honest representation of what the director said about his interpretation of the scene in the article, rather than pretending that he contradicts himself.  You could have saved us all this trouble if you just took a little more time and rather than reverting everything I did, make individual changes pointing to the consensus.  --Padenton (talk) 04:26, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I paid attention to your edits. And, in my opinion, your motives regarding these topics are to downplay the female sexuality criticism and rape aspects. I keep bringing up your changes to the Games of Thrones article because they, and your talk page comments at that article, show your motives and a lack of understanding of some of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. And I think you still want to treat the male and female nudity aspects as equal; like I've stated, they are not equal. That is one case where your interpretation of WP:Neutral differs from mine. Regarding the Breaker of Chains article, I mainly objected to your changes to the first paragraph in the aforementioned section, as is clear in that article's edit history. That edit history also shows that I restored some of your changes. Darkfrog24 has also shown issue with part of your changes to the first paragraph of the section in question, which is another reason discussions like these should be had on the article talk pages. The article talk page is there for a wider audience, for anyone watching that article, or those who may come to watch that article, to weigh in on matters concerning that article. If I had reverted you at the Game of Thrones article, like I mentioned I was tempted to do, you would have deprived others from weighing in by bringing that matter to my talk page as well. That is, until someone would have finally started a discussion there about the matter. Yes, WP:Consensus can change, which is what I was going to mention to you, but WP:Consensus is policy -- one that is barely respected. And the changing of that consensus should be had at the article talk page, not a user talk page. As for the director not contradicting himself? That is your opinion. Flyer22 (talk) 05:26, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, and disliking POV-pushing that is at odds with how Wikipedia is supposed to work is not so much a personal thing for me as it is a "follow the rules" thing. Flyer22 (talk) 05:31, 9 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Don't assume that is deliberately being difficult when he/she asks what POV you think he/she's pushing.  No one's a mind reader (or even a face reader out here), and it's a legitimate question.  Speaking for myself, Pandeton, it looks like you're pushing the POV that the rape scene in BoC wasn't really rape.  Even if that's not what you're actually doing, it is what it looks like you're doing.  None of the rest of us are mind-readers either.  That position is loaded enough that it must be backed up with sources, WP consensus or preferably both.  Padenton made a bold change, Padenton's allowed to make bold changes, and everyone else is allowed to revert bold changes if there is cause, which there was.  The next step is to take it to the talk page and make the case for the changes in question if you still want to make them. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:06, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Editorial standards: 1, implied mathematics of double standard: 0
After you reverted my edit to Sociosexual orientation concerning the mathematical impossibility of heterosexual men being more promiscuous than heterosexual women (on average, in any fixed society with equitable sex ratios)—it's a most disgusting canard—I hope you're planning to address the problem more constructively that I managed (apparently).

What was there before my edit contains a gaping wound in what it leaves unstated, that the mathematics of the double standard all too often resolves itself in prostitution, violence against women, and sometimes even situational bisexuality (c.f. Cabaret).

Did you ever see Kinsey (film)? He's not completed screwed over (in the eyes of the public) until he writes his volume on libidinal grandmothers.

Voice of wisdom: [concerning negative reviews] Why do you read them, Prok?

Prok: I'm trying to find out why people hate this book so.

Voice of wisdom: You told them their grandmothers and their daughters are masturbating ... having premarital sex, sex with each other. What did you expect?

Thus, even though its commonly conceded that what goes up must come down, we hardly ever overtly state that gender equations must ultimately balance out. Effing chickenshit if you ask me.

&mdash; MaxEnt 21:17, 12 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, MaxEnt. Regarding my revert of you, perhaps look for WP:Reliable sources on Google Books to word the matter differently than it is currently worded? Flyer22 (talk) 21:20, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Erica Kane: proposed wording change in section
Hi, Flyer22. I'm sorry to bother you again. I was wondering what you thought of changing this bit of wording (in the Family section of the Erica Kane article), "... as the product of a 24-year-old rape..." to "conceived in a 24-year-old rape." I was hesitant to bring this up as this is based on a personal sticking point of calling human beings "products" (despite it referring to a fictional character) and I wasn't willing to touch the article at all before consulting you on this due having made the mistake of topping sourced information with unsourced information in the past so I wanted to ensure this would be a correct change. Either way, it's fine and I just want to check in first - or should this be discussed at the article's talk page? Thanks! 70.72.166.8 (talk) 08:50, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

The above message is from me. I wasn't logged in :) Anatashala (talk) 08:52, 14 March 2015 (UTC)


 * It's fine, Anatashala. And whether it's the above matter or this one, the article talk pages are more appropriate than my talk page for this matter. Flyer22 (talk) 22:21, 14 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Flyer! I planned on make another tweak per the Warner source but it's small, more of another wording change in a sentence. However, if it is incorrect, feel free to change it back when I make the edit. And I'll take these matters regarding wording/specific article changes to the talk page in the future if I am unsure. Is it okay to ping you if the talk page is a bit dead? Anatashala (talk) 22:44, 14 March 2015 (UTC)


 * No need to ping me if I'm watching the article/talk page. If I don't reply, it's either because I'm not interested in replying or don't have anything to add to the matter. Flyer22 (talk) 22:52, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Adminship
Hi, I notice you accepted an adminship offer in 2007, but Requests for adminship/Flyer22 was never created. Are you still interested? If so, I'd be happy to support you; you seem like the right kind of person. <b style="color: #062">e</b><b style="color: #069">k</b><b style="color: #04f">i</b><b style="color: #108">ps</b><b style="color: #60c">39</b> (talk) 02:40, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Ekips39, I was a WP:Newbie in 2007, not at all qualified to be a WP:Administrator. And here in 2015, while I am well-versed in Wikipedia's policies and guidelines and am known to be a Wikipedia content builder, I have also developed a reputation as a hothead; see what I stated in this above section. And then there is the WP:Sockpuppet matter that would require special input; see User talk:Flyer22/Archive 14 (from 2014). So I decline. I am an editor who commonly has zero patience for the messes at this site that have tired me out. Wikipedia needs more WP:Administrators who have cooler heads than I do, and ones who love Wikipedia. I do not love Wikipedia (I state that after several years of editing in the difficult topics I edit in here). If they need more stern WP:Administrators, I still decline. Flyer22 (talk) 04:20, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * And, oh, I appreciate that you believe in me for such a role. Flyer22 (talk) 04:28, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Mildly, I wouldn't spend a lot of time remembering JordanL462's views given his indefinite block for abusive sockpuppetry. Re the rest, meh, if admins were expected to be perfect there'd be no one at all to do the job. -- Euryalus (talk) 05:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Euryalus. You know that I consider you one of the best administrators here. As for what was stated in the "You being an admin" discussion, I was referring to what Alison noted about explaining aspects of my WP:Block log. And even with her help, I would have people skeptical of the matter; I can point to diff-links where my brother nailed my writing style, even though his WP:Edit summary style was different than mine. Even if I desperately wanted the job, and was not a hothead (generally since 2014 through parts of this year), it would still be an uphill battle for me to become a WP:Administrator. But as always, thanks for your support. Flyer22 (talk) 05:57, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Your additions to Trans bashing
Hi, I noted your presence on the Trans bashing page and I am on board with your concerns regarding violence. I am working on the page for a class, as I mentioned on the talk page, and, while I have done some editing before, I do not have a lot of experience writing about trans issues. I don't know if you are doing this anyway, but I would love for you to follow the page and watch out for things like dated terminology or limited understanding of violence, as you have in the past. I know how important it is for these pages to be pristine, so I would really appreciate it if you could keep an eye on it. If there is anything I miss or misrepresent, I will do my best to rectify it. Thanks for being so active. BSchilling (talk) 07:02, 17 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey again, BSchilling. By "[my] additions," I take it that you mean what I stated about how people usually interpret the term violence, and what I stated about merging. The article is on my WP:Watchlist, which is why I reverted this bit that an IP added there earlier this year. I will occasionally help you with the article's content, and I will reply to your response on the talk page later today, or in a day or so. Flyer22 (talk) 07:49, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Concerning a suspicion
Am I the only one getting a sock vibe from Inyouchuu shoku? For someone who has been contributing (or at least registered) for just a month, they sure does seem to make a larger-than-expected proportion of their edits to categories and templates. Given the issues you brought to their talk page, and the number of their edits made to content which do not provide sourcing, I thought it was something you might consider if they continue to be problematic. It's possible they are a long-term IP editor who has just registered, but I'm not sure that's the most likely explanation.  S n o w  I take all complaints in the form of epic rap battles 07:01, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Snow Rise, reexamining that editor's relatively small edit history, I also think that the editor is either a WP:Sockpuppet or an editor who has legitimately returned to editing Wikipedia (whether after editing as an IP or under a registered account, or both). But I have no suspicion as to which previous accounts were involved. Flyer22 (talk) 07:09, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, on the balance their edits don't seem too disruptive and they edit over a broad-ish range of topics, so those of their edits that are a little problematic don't seem to be a part of any particular single-purpose activity so much as an approach that is just a little too cavalier in a few instances, so I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt -- you're right, it could just be a case of WP:NEWSTART as opposed to socking. But I'll also be keeping an eye on some pages.  S n o w  I take all complaints in the form of epic rap battles 07:23, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Concerning the Bob Dylan 1964 Concert Page, Bootleg 6
Hi Flyer,

I removed the paragraph that I did because it created the disproportionate sense that the critical reaction to that concert was negative. Including such a huge quote from one negative reviewer does not represent the appraisal of that concert, which was well-recorded and legendary for its masterful performance.

This is the page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bootleg_Series_Vol._6:_Bob_Dylan_Live_1964,_Concert_at_Philharmonic_Hall

A more representative review from a website that gives very few ratings above 8/10: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/2500-the-bootleg-series-vol-6-live-1964-concert-at-philharmonic-hall/

I'm going to remove the following paragraph again:

A few critics, including biographer Clinton Heylin, were dismissive. "I’ve never rated [the Halloween show] as a performance," Heylin explained in a phone interview. "Dylan is very focused when he comes to doing the new songs...But the old material, he’s completely and totally bored with. It’s not a good performance. He’s clearly stoned...The concert was a real landmark, not in the positive sense, but in the negative sense because it looked at the time like Dylan was going off the rails."[6]

Definition of Sexual Assault
I don't mind being reverted, but I've noted that your edit summaries argue against the edit warring you seem to be doing yourself. You haven't bothered to engage on the talk page about it even though I responded. If you bother to read it, I've noted that most definitions do not use the term "sexual violence". If RAINN, the US department of justice, the Canadian and UK governments don't use that term, then it's probably not appropriate for the lede.Mattnad (talk) 23:36, 22 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Mattnad, I've seen you in WP:Edit warring action at the Campus rape article, and that is why my very first revert of you at the Sexual assault article was to warn you not to WP:Edit war. That first revert is not WP:Edit warring. And as for the second revert, you should not have reverted until others weighed in. You should not expect someone to immediately comment after you have commented, especially when that Wikipedia editor is as busy as I am with other Wikipedia matters and offline matters. Can you not be patient and wait for someone to comment? In other words, I intend to comment. And, for the record, your logic on this matter is flawed, since noting that sexual assault is a form of sexual violence is not so much a definitional matter as it is an aspect matter. Flyer22 (talk) 23:45, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hardly edit warring. A single purpose editor made a hash of that Campus rape article with complete rewrites that are far from NPOV. I spent a lot of time on the talk page to discuss and reverted a couple of highly NPOV passages but for the most part let that editor do what he or she wanted to do.  You on the other hand reverted me twice, and suggest I'm the edit warrior. Pot meet kettle.Mattnad (talk) 01:41, 23 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I stand by what I stated above in this section. Anyone can look at the edit history of the Campus rape article and see what you were doing there. You and others are the main reason I do not want to be involved with that article or discussion at its talk page. And now I have your editing at the Rape in the United States article to look forward to. In the future, do keep article disputes off my talk page and on the article talk pages where they belong. Flyer22 (talk) 01:54, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Apologies for harsh comments
Hello Flyer22, I want to apologize for my harsh tone in the discussions we had. I have a completely different opinion on the topics in question, I cannot apologize for that, but I can for the style in which I expressed it. In the short time I am here I have seen how your page has been vandalized with personal attacks and the pages we worked on were warred on. I am sorry for adding on to that burden by being unnecessarily aggressive. You are far more experienced and you have seen far more of this, I should have seen the bigger picture.Lucentcalendar (talk) 14:53, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Change policy?
There seems to be no end to the bizarre comments that have been made about my copyedit, but "change policy" just about takes the cherry right now. How am I proposing to change policy? Please explain. Samsara 00:25, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Samsara, WP:Blocking policy is policy; you changed wording at that policy; therefore, you changed policy. If your wording sufficiently relayed the same thing to editors, they would not have been reverting you with the view that your wording is different than what the policy already relays. I reverted you, with attitude. Then I addressed the matter at the talk page. Keep the discussion there where it belongs; I am not fond of disjointed discussions, just like I am not fond of people WP:Edit warring over a policy page against WP:Consensus. Flyer22 (talk) 00:33, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks, Neil. And I think you know that I'm the obsessive-compulsive sort (yes, I can be very OCD), so I "have to" point out what you are referring to. Thanks for letting me air this out on your user talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 21:25, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Why banned users keep coming back, despite attempts to remove their incentives
The usual thinking people have is that banned users can be deterred from coming back by reverting or deleting all their contributions. While G5 is a tool that makes it possible to quickly get rid of possibly bad contributions without putting any effort into sorting out the good from the bad, it could be of limited effectiveness in deterring certain banned users from coming back. It depends on the cost-benefit analysis of the individual involved.

On the cost side of the ledger is the effort expended in researching and writing the article. Maybe the user was going to do this anyway, even if Wikipedia didn't exist. Maybe the user was curious about a topic and needed to research it, and writing an article was a convenient way of putting the most pertinent information gleaned in one executive summary. Writing an article can be a way of organizing one's thoughts, both for one's own clarity of thinking and as preparation for presenting ideas to others.

On the benefit side of the ledger is putting the information out there for Wikipedia readers, but suppose this is removed by getting rid of the contributions from view. The information is still there for the banned users to retrieve, either if he saved it in his own records before adding it to Wikipedia, or if he gets it from the history or (in the case of deleted article) from the Google cache. It can then be put in other places (e.g. other wikis) besides Wikipedia.

So in short, the costs of socking are low and the benefits are potentially high, despite attempts to remove incentives and create deterrrents. ExplanationUser (talk) 23:07, 28 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , I assume that you are User:Nathan Larson/User:Tisane/User:Leucosticte (etc.). Yes, I've been clear that you should stop trying my intelligence. As stated on my user page, it is rare that I cannot spot a WP:Sockpuppet or otherwise non-new Wikipedia editor who has returned under a new Wikipedia account. I am just about as good at spotting you as the contact I have regarding you via email. WP:Banned users are WP:Banned for valid reasons; usually, it is because Wikipedia is better off without them. Wikipedia is certainly better off without you. My user page is also very clear how I feel about WP:Child protection aspects; that is the main reason I will do what I can to keep you off Wikipedia. Flyer22 (talk) 23:19, 28 March 2015 (UTC)


 * And one more thing: Your explanation above concerns you. I highly doubt that the vast majority of WP:Banned editors who return think like that. It is you who likes to publicize your material, in whatever way you can. And because you need Wikipedia to gain a wider audience for that material, it is always good when you are denied that access. Those other wikis and websites that will allow your content don't compare to Wikipedia, and you know it. Since your above post is clearly letting me know that you are waging a war, I am letting you know to be prepared to lose that war. People who hurt children sexually and have the audacity to justify that are, in my opinion, the lowest of the low. Flyer22 (talk) 23:51, 28 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Flyer, what do you think the most effective action would be to minimize disruption to Wikipedia from the individual operating this account? Ignore, block, allow to continue to see where it leads, some action at WP:LTA?  Appreciate your advice...   00:11, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know. He can obviously keep creating WP:Sockpuppets, and that is a flaw with Wikipedia. He likely created a lot more WP:Sockpuppets after he was recently caught. If a WP:CheckUser were to reveal and tag all of those newer WP:Sockpuppets, the process would repeat, as it has for years now with this editor. Because he knows that I care about child sexual abuse topics and some other contentions sexual topics (such as rape in general), he knows that I won't ignore him when I spot him and that I likely won't ignore him when he makes a comment directed toward me; despite my ability to spot him, he puts himself in my line of fire. And that I'm likely to reply to him is the reason that he will try to WP:Bait me. One thing is for sure: When I see this editor, I am likely going to name him as the WP:Sockpuppet he is on the spot, as opposed to the past cautious nature I've taken to combat any claim that I am unnecessarily biting a newbie. This type of approach at the talk page, for example, was me being cautious. So was this recent initial post at WP:Med. Soon, I will look to tag some of his remaining articles with WP:G5. Flyer22 (talk) 01:05, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Note: This thread was removed from my talk page days before I archived it. I'd rather it be archived here than simply lost in my talk page edit history. Flyer22 (talk) 20:15, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

What are you doing? Tony Issa article.
New South Wales had an election yesterday. In Australia, both federally and in all states and territories, terms start from election day. An IP correctly updated two articles (one an electorate, and one an MP for a different electorate) to reflect the updated situation, and you reverted it as vandalism. You then confused me with the IP (who I was not) and made what sounded like a threat, because, like every other Australian politics WikiProject editor right now, I'm going around updating the hundreds of articles that need updating post-election.

I don't know what you're doing and I find it very strange, but it's completely inappropriate regardless, and if this (as your edit history would seem to imply) was just part of regular vandal-hunting then you should consider whether you're getting a bit trigger-happy. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 09:07, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The Drover&#39;s Wife, what I was doing here was reverting a problematic editor, per WP:Block evasion. If you'd read the note that I left at the IP's talk page, then you would know what is going on. I barely care if that person makes a good edit; what I care about concerning that person is that he or she stop being WP:Disruptive and stop evading their blocks. Since that person should not be editing Wikipedia because of their blocks, one way of enforcing the matter is by reverting all of that person's edits. So, yes, I am trigger happy as far as that person is concerned. I did not entirely confuse you with that person; I asked why you are supporting the IP's edit and whether you are the IP. Given the IP's level of WP:Sockpuppeting and seeing that the article in question is not heavily edited, it was appropriate to me to inquire if you are that IP. I've been through such matters with different IPs countless times before at this site. I should have checked the edit history more thoroughly to see if you'd edited that article before. After seeing that you were not reverting me on the other IP's edits, I figured that you likely are not the IP. You have replied to clear matters up, and I appreciate that. I apologize for having offended you.


 * On a side note: I added "Tony Issa article." to the heading of this section so that it is clearer what this discussion is about; it will also help to recognize it once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 17:05, 29 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Ah, no worries. Thanks for responding, and I'm glad we got this cleared up. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 01:05, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Answering your concerns about me
Hi. I’m opting to reply to a bit of your comment at WT:FILM here rather than there, since that bit is about me rather than WP:FILM.

You’re correct that I do have an account. But for some time now, I just haven’t bothered logging into it, though it’s still in good standing. It’s the only account I have, and this is the only IP address I’ve edited from since. —174.141.182.82 (talk) 09:37, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Question about an edit, please
Hi, Earlier today I added a piece to the Dorothy Parker page. It is the first time I've done this, so perhaps I did something wrong, but I'm not sure why it was deleted. A woman I went to college with many years ago wrote a brilliant play and I wanted to add it to the list of others who have also paid homage to Parker in a variety of ways. It was my way of paying homage to her. And I felt it certainly fit the content of that particular section of Parker's page. If you would please respond and let me know, I would appreciate it. Thank you, ChattProf (talk) 23:27, 29 March 2015 (UTC) ChattProf (I think I did that correctly!)


 * Hello, . I reverted you here because I saw no sign that the person you were citing is someone that should be cited (see WP:Reliable sources), and because you added WP:Editorializing language ("Dorothy Parker would have definitely approved."). Flyer22 (talk) 00:07, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Your edit also messed up the WP:See also section. Flyer22 (talk) 00:09, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for answering my question and for the links, as well. I did read them. I do apologize for messing up the WP: See Also. So I'm wondering, is it possible to revise the text and include a hyperlink to the theatre website and/or the Chattanooga, TN wikipedia page where the theatre is mentioned? ChattProf (talk) 01:09, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * , I combined your new discussion section into this section because there was no need for a new section to continue the discussion. As for the content you want to add, you can add it as long as you provide a WP:Reliable source to assist it. For how to format references, see Citing sources and Template:Citation. If you are reverted by someone else, take the matter to the article talk page and WP:Ping the editor by linking his or her username. Flyer22 (talk) 01:27, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Editing Education section in Veeraghattam
Hello, presently Veeraghattam has another degree college which needs to be added. Hpsatapathy (talk) 07:03, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, Hpsatapathy. I assume that you've come to me about this revert I made regarding an IP. Feel free to revert me if I was wrong to revert the IP. Flyer22 (talk) 07:11, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, Flyer22. Thanks a lot.

Hpsatapathy (talk) 07:21, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Top ten lists
I saw you removed the top ten lists from the Gone Girl article, citing the Trivia MoS page. I can't see anything on that page about top ten lists. I'd love to remove the top ten list section from Under the Skin (2013 film) because it's gigantic and unweildy. Does it count as trivia? What do you think? Popcornduff (talk) 10:02, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I cited the WP:Trivia guideline because while whether or not that content is trivia is debatable, that setup is trivia-like to me. WP:Trivia states, "This style guideline deals with the way in which these facts are represented in an article, not with whether the information contained within them is actually trivia, or whether trivia belongs in Wikipedia." If that list had been set up with a WP:Wikitable and well-sourced, I would not have removed it. But it is trivia/WP:Fancruft, in my opinion. The Under the Skin (2013 film) article has been on my WP:Watchlist for months now, but I don't pay much attention to that article. That list you cited is a mess. And as for the suggestion that it be split into its own Wikipedia article, that would be a poor WP:Spinout article. I suggest you ask about this matter at WP:Film. I vote "no" concerning such sections; generally anyway. If this were 2010, I'm sure I'd feel differently. But I'd only been a Wikipedian for two/three years at that point. Flyer22 (talk) 10:30, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Breast article
EDITED: Sorry I neglected the description before, but I guess I will have of explain myself now.

1. The topic regards only culture memes and was not referring to sex determination or the difference between the sexes, and thus damages the origins of their form from being that of the need to nurse children in its context.

More or less like a cow udder (or, the multiple nipple variant of the mammary unit), the human female breasts' form is comprised mostly of mammary glands which form within already existent fat, which continues to grow with the glands and act as insulation, and also like a cow udder, consists of ligaments to divide, structure and hold up the region. The roundness even helps children better suckle from the teat according to the article itself. It would be incorrect to enforce that their constant shape is made for or also made for legitimately attracting mates as they cannot change and bounce to all common movement (or any dance). It's thus primarily sexual for all its physical attributes, not secondarily, and since these properties do not happen by the consent of the female, this idea could thus help lead to premature and unwanted impregnation (as it has in the past). Legs were just as much a problem in the past and were censored to no end.

2. From the "secondary" sexual characteristics article of Wikipedia: "In humans, visible secondary sex characteristics include enlarged breasts of females and facial hair and adam's apple on males."

This is more clear, but still, not everyone is attracted to larger breasts and the importance of the Adam's apple has practically died, making this merely preference and otherwise a mere aspect of sex determination.

The problem is that you could say anything certain people had a fetish for have themselves secondary sexual characteristics just due to it, and so all of the human body would have sexual characteristics, yet these fetishes usually lead to one being either addicted or having a problem with personification of the person's person as the person in daily life, which is why those parts were more so hidden in the past for daily living, and IS why bestiality, pedophilia and etc. even exist within the species the first place: taking sexual pleasure in mere aesthetic beauties which aren't even temporal and by no means fully exclusive to age or gender in the first place. Like many ape species, the core of our body never changes and only differs a little in places and mainly overall physique (thin to muscular in healthy humans, with pre-teens, early-teens and women being similar here), and clothing doesn't do much to cover the aesthetic beauty of the overall anatomy and physique. It is still viewable. Similarly, if you remove the nipples and everything else from a "nude" figure or humanoid creature, the same exact physique is strangely finally personify-able in society, male and female! This is despite the fact nipples look the same and only women's relay a nursing function. As seen, another leg scenario.

3. In nature, there is one rule for sex: it is neither an addiction nor a problem hindering life or social life. It's an event, an action, a change, a time and a season, not a being. There is a mating call and a mating sign, all the same. There is a mating ritual or a dance, all the same.

Animals (and naturists, who are currently being hazed of their rights in many places around the world, despite how isolated or happily mixed these regions are, lifestyles being relatively unchanged and many of the species's advancements naturally and properly carrying over) always see those parts without care, yet without ignorance or resistance, just the same as a clothed person today lives (grooming etc.). It is a nature that, to them, it is just them and themselves or another unconditionally, and either go by changes during a mating season or by their own tendencies or urge to perform the action itself. For us, that would usually be initiated by heavy embarrassing and/or kissing, one thing possibly leading to the other. On the other hand, with their primitive way of communicating with one another, animals also throw out a predetermined/programmed audible call or visual sign/state made to signify their need for a partner and tendencies. Others will initiate a routine or dance. From here a selection is made, based upon various factors.

While animals do indeed compete or look for the most healthiest and best, this itself doesn't translate into the problems listed with humans in enforcing a prurient nature upon everyone and everything visual or physical. In fact, it is so bad that many tell nudist they are wrong about what they say and that they cannot remove sex forever, despite the removal of sex having nothing to do with it. If they got their way, naturist would have orgies and even have sex in front of their own children on a whim, end of story, as mere notice is not notice of a person and adoration of aesthetic beauty isn't possible without sexual advance, yet these parts are all doing nothing out of the ordinary to call to anyone. We are different and can understand beauty universally.--BobtheVila (talk) 11:03, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * BobtheVila, I appreciate you explaining. And though many would classify the explanation as WP:Too long, didn't read, I read all of it. But regarding this, my point is still that breasts are a female secondary sex characteristic; this is noted in many WP:Reliable anatomy books (old, new, and not-so-new), and many other WP:Reliable sources. This is also why they are noted as a female secondary sex characteristic in the Secondary sex characteristic article. We should be going by what the WP:Reliable sources state, with WP:Due weight, in this case; not our personal opinion. If you don't like how the "female secondary sex characteristic" aspect was given context in the Breast article, which seems to be the case, we can discuss that and how better to present that information. But, somewhere in that article, we will be mentioning that breasts are a female secondary sex characteristic. If you want wider input on this, you can address the matter at the WP:Anatomy talk page. I disagree with your assertion that "The problem is that you could say anything certain people had a fetish for have themselves secondary sexual characteristics just due to it." I disagree because that's not how science defines a secondary sex characteristic. And I don't know what you mean regarding bestiality and pedophilia, two subjects that I have significant knowledge on. Well, I am significantly more knowledgeable on pedophilia. But speaking of fetishes, we have a Breast fetishism article, which addresses the cultural phenomenon of men (especially in certain parts of the world) being sexually attracted to breasts, how this evolved or may have evolved, and the puzzlement concerning it since breasts are not technically a sex organ/seemingly not intended for sexual use. But, really, humans use different "non-sexual" body parts sexually anyway. The Breast fetishism article could use much improvement, by the way.


 * On a side note: In the future, if I start a discussion on your talk page, it is best to keep the discussion there instead of disjointed. See WP:TALKCENT. If you think that I will forget to check your talk page to see if you have replied, I assure you that I won't. There is also the option of me placing your talk page on my WP:Watchlist, which is what I did soon after commenting there. And you can feel free to WP:Ping me by linking to my username; but one ping is all that is needed in my case. Flyer22 (talk) 23:14, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


 * BobtheVila, with this edit, I went ahead and removed the "which are female secondary sex characteristics" part, since this is already discussed in the Development section of that article. Flyer22 (talk) 23:32, 30 March 2015 (UT)

Micheal Quartermain
Hi his name is now Quartermain so please fix it Jena (talk) 14:40, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * ANTONIOROCKS (Jenna), no. The reason that I reverted you (followup edit here) at the Michael Corinthos article is because of what I stated at that talk page. You don't seem to understand what I stated there, which is why you ignored it and stated, "Hi Name is Quartermaine Please fix the redirect." I'm not sure how to have you understand. Flyer22 (talk) 14:47, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

yah I am just a little confused ..... all the other soap articles got a redirect when the peoples name was changed .. Jena  (talk) 14:54, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * ANTONIOROCKS, I'm not sure what you mean. Michael Quartermaine redirects to Michael Corinthos, as it should. Do you want Michael Alan Quartermaine to go from a WP:Red link and also redirect to the Michael Corinthos article? Are you sure you are using the term redirect correctly with regard to Wikipedia? See WP:Redirect. If you mean a WP:Move, that is a different matter. And I reiterate that I explained on the article's talk page why the article title should not be moved to Michael Quartermaine.


 * Perhaps you're very young and that is part of why what you mean is not coming through? Either that, or there is a more significant language barrier? Flyer22 (talk) 15:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

how about you knock of the Condescending tone ?? I know what I'm saying someone moved the Article to Michael Quartermaine because THAT IS HIS LEGAL  NAME NOW  and you moved it back  and I Guss because you think  "Corinthos" is his "common" name   Whaterver I'm done I won't touch it Jena   (talk) 20:10, 31 March 2015 (UTC)


 * ANTONIOROCKS, I was not trying to be condescending; I could not tell what you meant. We have had very young soap opera editors, who are difficult to understand. So I queried if you are very young or if there is some other language barrier. I did not move the article; I pointed to why it should stay at the title it's at, which is following a Wikipedia rule. If you are upset with me for pointing to Wikipedia's rules, then you should learn them so that no one has to point you to them. Flyer22 (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Ages of consent in North America
Hello dear User. Please pay attention | to this topic in the Talk page of the Ages of consent in North America article. Thanks in advance. 46.70.64.23 (talk) 18:26, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Reverts at the Depression (mood), Vegetarianism and Meat articles
why you reverted my contributuion? Amit.pratap1988 (talk) 04:21, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Amit.pratap1988, I reverted you here, here and here because of sourcing issues; I was clear why I reverted you. You obviously did not take the time to asses why. I pointed you to WP:MEDRS; that is the type of sourcing you should be using for this material.


 * Also, I gave your comment a heading; in the future, do not hijack an unrelated thread by commenting in it. Instead, start a new discussion using the "New section" tab at the top of the talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 04:47, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * And another thing: As a vegetarian myself, and as a person whose mood can often be grumpy (especially when on Wikipedia), I don't put much stock into what that source states. Not that my personal opinion matters as far as the inclusion of this content in a Wikipedia article goes. Flyer22 (talk) 04:58, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

The source I cited is reliable and is well known news paper Amit.pratap1988 (talk) 06:07, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Fox Animation Studios
hi about fox animation studios even I know that they never worked on the prince of eypet or that TV show and you can go to you tube channel electricdragon505 click on animation lookback don bluth part 4 unforcy you have to go to blip theres a link in the driscription because FOX BLOCKED IT ON YOU TUBE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.113.232.222 (talk) 05:06, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Lucious Lyon (Talk Page)
Hi, Flyer22. I have gotten into a particularly difficult disagreement with another user at the page Talk:Lucious Lyon---with the section Empire page set up being the focus of our current disagreement, which is definitely getting worse as we continue to discuss. I don't want to go to 3O or third opinion unless absolutely necessary, but I'd like a third party or parties to help resolve the issue. I need the issue to be resolved because it is seriously hindering our advancement of the page; we have different ideas and can't seem to come to any compromise. I bring this issue up at the Lucious Lyon talk page. It seems that me and the other user are the only ones who use the talk page, and other editors haven't gotten involved to voice their opinion. If you are unavailable, could you possibly direct me to another user who could help? I'm trying to get a few people involved to resolve the dispute before it gets further out of hand. Kinfoll1993 (talk) 07:16, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Kinfoll1993, I'm familiar with the other editor you refer to, Nk3play2, but he usually edits soap opera articles (and by "soap opera," I mean the usual way the term is used, as indicated by the Soap opera article; in other words, daytime dramas); so it's interesting to see him at the article in question -- Lucious Lyon. You two are debating more than one thing there. You want me to weigh in on all of that? As for not wanting to go to WP:Third opinion (3O), you sort of have by contacting me and by contacting Malik Shabazz. I used to be a mediator of sorts on Wikipedia, but I'm not much of one these days. It would be better to ask for outside input at WP:TV. Flyer22 (talk) 07:44, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * So, as you mentioned above, it is the setup of the page you two are focusing on now; I might weigh in on it. Flyer22 (talk) 07:56, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Yeah. Nk3play2 seems to want to model the page after soap opera characters. I was more interested in developing the page like Jimmy McNulty or other antihero characters initially, but when I felt that Nk3play2 would not compromise after asking if he could contribute to the article I created---I just consented to allow him to do the page his way. But after looking at the page more closely after it was reviewed, I noticed a few (in my opinion) errors about the page set up, and when further discussion got nowhere, I decided to change the current set up.If it is going to be like a soap opera page, I decided that it still should be appropriately formatted. I disagree with the format/set up (I'm also am offended by what seems to me the editor's unwillingness to compromise at all, but that's another issue I suppose---even after I told him that I was asking a third party, he went and reverted my edits back). If you want to help, then thanks, I appreciate it. If not, thanks anyway, I'll use the WP:TV link.Kinfoll1993 (talk) 08:30, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I've commented, and I can't be much more help at that article than that. As for the Jimmy McNulty setup, that is not an ideal article to model another article after. The Lucious Lyon article is much better. Nk3play2 does good article building; so even though he can be challenging to work with, try to be a little more patient with him and learn things from him about making better Wikipedia articles. Flyer22 (talk) 09:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks once again for your help, it was much needed. Kinfoll1993 (talk) 10:19, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

The Heaven Shop
I do not ever recall making that edit and Ive never heard of The Heaven Shop before today. I created an account so hopefully this shouldnt be happening anymore.

Someusername247 (talk) 02:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * , I only made one edit to that article so far; so you must have been that IP.


 * Also, I gave your comment a heading; in the future, you should not hijack an unrelated thread by commenting in it. Instead, start a new discussion using the "New section" tab at the top of the talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 04:42, 3 April 2015 (UTC)